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Played w. an 11-yr Old Ringer


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#1 BeerPerHole

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 03:20 PM

So, yesterday my son, 12, and I went to the local muni and happened to get paired with an 11-yr old and his dad. The dad wasn't playing, but coaching his son. As the round went on he mentioned how the boy had played Pinehurst for a national championship recently, etc. Mentioned the boy has a national rank that's low, in the teens. Real nice kid, very focused. His dad, also, was very personable. Really liked playing with the kid. I think my boy was humbled - haha. Well, this little ringer, based on my estimation, shot about 4-under for 18 holes. I don't think I've played with anybody this good, at any age, ever. That was something to see. The kid was very motivated to play well, and I could tell from talking to the dad that he's not pushing the kid at all, just gentle guidance.


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#2 heavy_hitter

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 03:46 PM

I wouldn’t consider 4 under in a practice round a ringer for a junior tournament golfer.  Above average?  Sure.  Not a ringer.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 03 December 2017 - 04:21 PM.


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#3 BigSky59

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 04:40 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I wouldn’t consider 4 under in a practice round a ringer for a junior tournament golfer.  Above average?  Sure.  Not a ringer.
What would you suggest/estimate a 5th or 6th grader needs to shoot to be considered a ringer?  63? Maybe sniff 59 once every 5 or 6 rounds?

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#4 ezpz

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 04:57 PM

View PostBigSky59, on 03 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I wouldn’t consider 4 under in a practice round a ringer for a junior tournament golfer.  Above average?  Sure.  Not a ringer.
What would you suggest/estimate a 5th or 6th grader needs to shoot to be considered a ringer?  63? Maybe sniff 59 once every 5 or 6 rounds?

considering this is wrx he has to shoot 7 under every practice round, no drives shorter than 300 and beat an LPGA pro once a month.

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#5 leezer99

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 05:21 PM

View PostBeerPerHole, on 03 December 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

As the round went on he mentioned how the boy had played Pinehurst for a national championship recently, etc. Mentioned the boy has a national rank that's low, in the teens.

Is it just me or is it weird that this was brought up by the dad?  When my son and I are out we'll get the occasional player that will mention how well he hits the ball but it never crossed my mind to share his resume.


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#6 Nard_S

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 05:41 PM

Played with a pair of 14 year olds. It was not their home course, One kid was -3 after nine. Missed 1 fairway and 1 green and several doable putts.  He left after that to go do homework or play X Box. Best golfer I ever played with. Amazing.

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#7 heavy_hitter

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 06:14 PM

View Postleezer99, on 03 December 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 03 December 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

As the round went on he mentioned how the boy had played Pinehurst for a national championship recently, etc. Mentioned the boy has a national rank that's low, in the teens.

Is it just me or is it weird that this was brought up by the dad?  When my son and I are out we'll get the occasional player that will mention how well he hits the ball but it never crossed my mind to share his resume.

How often does your kid shoot 4 under in a practice round?  



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#8 heavy_hitter

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 06:19 PM

View PostBigSky59, on 03 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I wouldnâ€â„˘t consider 4 under in a practice round a ringer for a junior tournament golfer.  Above average?  Sure.  Not a ringer.
What would you suggest/estimate a 5th or 6th grader needs to shoot to be considered a ringer?  63? Maybe sniff 59 once every 5 or 6 rounds?

An above average tournament golfer is going to shoot under par in practice rounds.  Ringer? No.  Pretty good?  Yes.  It isn’t uncommon at all.  If they are doing it in tournament rounds, then I would call them a ringer.

There isn’t a kid ranked in the teens in class of 2024 that are consistently putting up under par numbers in tournaments.  In practice rounds it is done all the time.

The average male hacker not associated with tournament golf don’t understand how good tournament junior golfers are.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 03 December 2017 - 06:24 PM.


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#9 leezer99

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:24 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 03 December 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 03 December 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

As the round went on he mentioned how the boy had played Pinehurst for a national championship recently, etc. Mentioned the boy has a national rank that's low, in the teens.

Is it just me or is it weird that this was brought up by the dad?  When my son and I are out we'll get the occasional player that will mention how well he hits the ball but it never crossed my mind to share his resume.

How often does your kid shoot 4 under in a practice round?  

We don't keep score in practice rounds but it's not often he goes low like that.

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#10 BigSky59

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:26 PM

View Postezpz, on 03 December 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

View PostBigSky59, on 03 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I wouldn’t consider 4 under in a practice round a ringer for a junior tournament golfer.  Above average?  Sure.  Not a ringer.
What would you suggest/estimate a 5th or 6th grader needs to shoot to be considered a ringer?  63? Maybe sniff 59 once every 5 or 6 rounds?

considering this is wrx he has to shoot 7 under every practice round, no drives shorter than 300 and beat an LPGA pro once a month.
Only on WRX can an 11 year old shoot 4 under par one day and be just "above average."


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#11 heavy_hitter

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 09:26 PM

View PostBigSky59, on 03 December 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

View Postezpz, on 03 December 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

View PostBigSky59, on 03 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I wouldn’t consider 4 under in a practice round a ringer for a junior tournament golfer.  Above average?  Sure.  Not a ringer.
What would you suggest/estimate a 5th or 6th grader needs to shoot to be considered a ringer?  63? Maybe sniff 59 once every 5 or 6 rounds?

considering this is wrx he has to shoot 7 under every practice round, no drives shorter than 300 and beat an LPGA pro once a month.
Only on WRX can an 11 year old shoot 4 under par one day and be just "above average."

Do you know what yardage he played from, the distance he hit the ball, if it was an executive course?  If he played 6000 yards he is a stud ringer, if he was playing 5000 they are a dime a dozen in Florida, Texas, and California.  4 under in a practice round also isn’t 4 under in a tournament round.

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#12 heavy_hitter

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 09:28 PM

View Postleezer99, on 03 December 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 03 December 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 03 December 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

As the round went on he mentioned how the boy had played Pinehurst for a national championship recently, etc. Mentioned the boy has a national rank that's low, in the teens.

Is it just me or is it weird that this was brought up by the dad?  When my son and I are out we'll get the occasional player that will mention how well he hits the ball but it never crossed my mind to share his resume.

How often does your kid shoot 4 under in a practice round?  

We don't keep score in practice rounds but it's not often he goes low like that.

Point is, he does and your kid is usually at around par or under.  It isn’t like it is that big of a deal playing in a practice round when trying to shoot a number.

Maybe I am just too much of a pessimist.

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#13 leezer99

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:05 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 03 December 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 03 December 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 03 December 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

As the round went on he mentioned how the boy had played Pinehurst for a national championship recently, etc. Mentioned the boy has a national rank that's low, in the teens.

Is it just me or is it weird that this was brought up by the dad?  When my son and I are out we'll get the occasional player that will mention how well he hits the ball but it never crossed my mind to share his resume.

How often does your kid shoot 4 under in a practice round?  

We don't keep score in practice rounds but it's not often he goes low like that.

Point is, he does and your kid is usually at around par or under.  It isn’t like it is that big of a deal playing in a practice round when trying to shoot a number.

Maybe I am just too much of a pessimist.

Not a pessimist but a realist IMO.

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#14 tiger1873

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 11:42 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

View PostBigSky59, on 03 December 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

View Postezpz, on 03 December 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

View PostBigSky59, on 03 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I wouldn’t consider 4 under in a practice round a ringer for a junior tournament golfer.  Above average?  Sure.  Not a ringer.
What would you suggest/estimate a 5th or 6th grader needs to shoot to be considered a ringer?  63? Maybe sniff 59 once every 5 or 6 rounds?

considering this is wrx he has to shoot 7 under every practice round, no drives shorter than 300 and beat an LPGA pro once a month.
Only on WRX can an 11 year old shoot 4 under par one day and be just "above average."

Do you know what yardage he played from, the distance he hit the ball, if it was an executive course?  If he played 6000 yards he is a stud ringer, if he was playing 5000 they are a dime a dozen in Florida, Texas, and California.  4 under in a practice round also isn’t 4 under in a tournament round.

The yardage is and slope of of the course if a big deal.  68 on a easy flat executive course with no bunkers or water is no problem for a lot kids. Add in a cart and a practice round it you can see kids do that all day.

I even seen kids do it in tournaments when the course is very easy.  If you put them at regular championship lengths on a hard course with forced carries a lot them will fall apart though. The other thing is the same kids will not do well on the harder courses either.  The top kids are the ones who can play hard courses and still score low under pressure.

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#15 iteachgolf

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 11:56 AM

“Championship lengths” isn’t realistic for an 11 year old.  One of my juniors is 12 and in 2023 class and has shot under par a number of times in tournaments at 5,500-5,900 yards.  Anything longer than that is stretching it at 11-12 years old for all but a handful of kids.  I like kids shooting low scores early and getting comfortable being under par.   Almost expecting to shoot under par while mixing in longer tougher courses to prep them for the future.  

I don’t think any kid can be considered a “ringer”.  Being a ringer implies that he’s be fradualant.  Simply being one of the best just makes someone great, not a ringer.


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#16 KBong

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:16 PM

Only on WRX would people think an 11 yr old posting 4 under to be a POSER....lmao.
Whether the kid was playing 5500 to 6200 yds...it's still quite the feat.

I've played golf for 49 years and quite a bit .....and have yet to be paired up with another golf who had sniffed a 68.

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#17 joekelli

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:39 PM


ringer

Any type of contestant in a game who is entered in order to cheat. For example, a professional bowler who plays in an amateur bowling match.

You lost because you were up against a ringer.

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#18 heavy_hitter

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:50 PM

View PostKBong, on 04 December 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Only on WRX would people think an 11 yr old posting 4 under to be a POSER....lmao.
Whether the kid was playing 5500 to 6200 yds...it's still quite the feat.

I've played golf for 49 years and quite a bit .....and have yet to be paired up with another golf who had sniffed a 68.

So you have played with really bad golfers....  lol

Myself, Leezer, Tiger, and other golf parents are around Junior tournament golf see this everyday.  Maybe this is why we don't see this as a big deal, but in the grand reality of junior golf, it really isn't a big deal.   That is how low you have to go in tournament rounds to win, even at 11.

As a prime example, Kekoa's kid recently played in a US Kids local and came in 3rd place shooting 2 under on 9 holes.  He is around it everyday as well.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 04 December 2017 - 01:19 PM.


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#19 leezer99

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:55 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 04 December 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

View PostKBong, on 04 December 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Only on WRX would people think an 11 yr old posting 4 under to be a POSER....lmao.
Whether the kid was playing 5500 to 6200 yds...it's still quite the feat.

I've played golf for 49 years and quite a bit .....and have yet to be paired up with another golf who had sniffed a 68.

So you have played with really bad golfers....  lol

Myself, Leezer, Tiger, and other golf parents are around Junior tournament golf see this everyday.  Maybe this is why we don't see this as a big deal, but in the grand reality of junior golf, it really isn't a big deal.   That is how low you have to go in tournament rounds to win, even at 11.

As a prime example, Kekoa's kid recently played in a US Kids local and came in 3rd place shooting 2 under on 9 holes.  He is around it everyday as well.

And the worst is how easy they make it look... driver down the middle, mid iron or wedge to the green and make a putt.  Meanwhile your average golfer is hitting driver to the right rough, iron to a greenside bunker, wedge out and then two putting.

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#20 kekoa

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 04:11 PM

Sounds like 'Ringer' was the wrong word to describe the kid.  IMO, no matter how you look at it -4 is phenomenal.


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#21 golfer55082

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 04:54 PM

many kids are good. I have witnessed a -4 for 9 hole and -6 for 18 hole this year, from two different kids. However, I also witnessed many 40+ and 75+ scores from the same two kids. Consistency is harder to achieve, kids and adults alike.

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#22 KYMAR

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:01 PM

View Postleezer99, on 03 December 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 03 December 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

As the round went on he mentioned how the boy had played Pinehurst for a national championship recently, etc. Mentioned the boy has a national rank that's low, in the teens.

Is it just me or is it weird that this was brought up by the dad?  When my son and I are out we'll get the occasional player that will mention how well he hits the ball but it never crossed my mind to share his resume.

ISo you can't see the conversation between two dads, talking about their kids who are present, and getting into specifics? Especially since i think it's fairly safe to assume the OP commented on how well the kid played. Engaging in that conversation isn't "weird". It's just a conversation.

Edited by KYMAR, 04 December 2017 - 05:02 PM.

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#23 buckeyefl

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:34 PM

View PostBigSky59, on 03 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 03 December 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I wouldn’t consider 4 under in a practice round a ringer for a junior tournament golfer.  Above average?  Sure.  Not a ringer.
What would you suggest/estimate a 5th or 6th grader needs to shoot to be considered a ringer?  63? Maybe sniff 59 once every 5 or 6 rounds?

I was thinking maybe he needs to move back a tee or two.

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#24 BeerPerHole

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:32 PM

I don't understand the angst here on this. Perhaps my use of the word "ringer" triggers some. I've been playing 20 years and I've never seen a player in my group play as well as this 4'10", 90 pound kid did. Ever. I could only outdrive this kid - haha! I have played with a few really good amateurs. I know a lot of people might think that kind of golf is routine. If so, I must be playing in some odd dimension. He was playing the youth tees. I don't know the yardage. His work down the fairways was long and straight as an arrow - really straight. It was something to behold.

My kid was really humbled, shocked even. But, it had my boy saying, "I want to hit it like him." So, we were inspired.

Edited by BeerPerHole, 04 December 2017 - 09:38 PM.


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#25 Noles

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:32 PM

View PostBeerPerHole, on 04 December 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I don't understand the angst here on this. Perhaps my use of the word "ringer" triggers some. I've been playing 20 years and I've never seen a player in my group play as well as this 4'10", 90 pound kid did. Ever. I could only outdrive this kid - haha! I have played with a few really good amateurs. I know a lot of people might thing that kind of golf is routine. If so, I must be playing in some odd dimension. He was playing the youth tees. I don't know the yardage. His work down the fairways was long and straight as an arrow - really straight. It was something to behold.

My kid was really humbled, shocked even. But, it had my boy saying, "I want to hit it like him." So, we were inspired.
I thought the same thing when I read some of the responses.


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#26 CTgolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:11 AM

He sounds like a great player

Question for the group: would a boy shooting even par from the forward (formerly ladies’) tees on most courses (with reasonably high slope) by the age of 11-12yo equate to eventually being a better-than-scratch index golfer from the men’s or even championship tees (a level of play that presumably would be the minimum standard to play D1 or competitive D2 college golf)?

Lots of variables I’m sure but just speaking broadly

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#27 QEight

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:31 AM

View PostBeerPerHole, on 04 December 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I don't understand the angst here on this. Perhaps my use of the word "ringer" triggers some.

So why did you use that word?
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#28 iteachgolf

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:38 AM

View PostCTgolf, on 05 December 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

He sounds like a great player

Question for the group: would a boy shooting even par from the forward (formerly ladies’) tees on most courses (with reasonably high slope) by the age of 11-12yo equate to eventually being a better-than-scratch index golfer from the men’s or even championship tees (a level of play that presumably would be the minimum standard to play D1 or competitive D2 college golf)?

Lots of variables I’m sure but just speaking broadly

It’s not linear like that.  At 11-12 the top players are shooting those scores from around 6,000 yards, the white tees not the red tees.  But because kids mature and grow at different rates how that translates to 7,000 yards at 18 isn’t easy to predict.  I think how well they play from 6,700+ is a better predictor.   The top 12 year I teach would shoot under par almost every round from the forward tee but more importantly he shoots high 70s on average from the length competitive high school seniors play.

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#29 HWGOLF

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 05:16 AM

This is one bizarre thread

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#30 Noles

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:03 AM

View PostQEight, on 05 December 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

View PostBeerPerHole, on 04 December 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I don't understand the angst here on this. Perhaps my use of the word "ringer" triggers some.

So why did you use that word?
I hear that term thrown around to mean something that is not always the technical meaning.  Ever been in an outing and hear someone say that a group brought in a ringer?  They aren't implying that anyone is cheating, just that the player is significantly better than anyone else that's playing.  That's how I read the OP's comment.


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