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Club Champion fitting - swing weight question


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#1 fawley

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:43 PM

I had a full bag fitting at Club Champion last week. It was generally a very good experience. They made lie and loft adjustments to my putter, couldnít find clubs that fit me better than my current woods and hybrid, and found me some better distance and dispersion than my current irons.

As a result of the fitting, Iíve sourced a new set of Apex CF16 / Pro combo iron heads, and will have CC do the build to the specs recommended from my fitting.

The one number in the fitting that seemed odd was the recommended swing weight of D8. Callaway lists standard swing weight as D2. My irons will be +0.5Ē which would put them at D5.

I emailed the fitter today to ask why the club I hit measured D8, and whether the club connex fixture was the reason for such a high swing weight. I didnít really get a good answer on that one.

I also asked why he thought D8 was the correct swing weight for me, given it was the only swing weight I hit in that club. Again, I didnít really get a good answer beyond ďyou hit that one greatĒ. Itís quite possible that itís right for me, but I didnít hit it at heavier or lighter swing weights to see if D8 was ideal. Iím also a little hesitant to jump from D4-D5 in my current irons, all the way to D8.

Itís entirely possible Iím overthinking this. I hit the irons great at D8 and got significantly better numbers than my current set up.

Should I just order these to be built at D8?

Edited by fawley, 14 November 2017 - 10:45 PM.


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#2 taylorx300

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:05 PM

You won‚Äôt know if you hit the light club better or not until you try one. If you have your numbers for the D8 club, have them build it at the standard weight it comes out to at plus 1/2‚ÄĚ. Then gets some numbers, you can always add lead tape to get to D8. I‚Äôm sorry but D8 is too much heft, would be exhausted by the 12th hole

Edited by taylorx300, 14 November 2017 - 11:06 PM.

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#3 GTPL

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:46 AM

My guess is that you either have a slight over the top, or a short aggressive swing? Those are two reasons why I would GUESS the D8 may have given you better numbers. D8 isn't that much heavier; quite possible some basic gym time may be needed if one is exhausted by the 12th from D8...

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#4 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 03:29 AM

View Postfawley, on 14 November 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

I also asked why he thought D8 was the correct swing weight for me, given it was the only swing weight I hit in that club. Again, I didn't really get a good answer beyond "you hit that one great". It's quite possible that it's right for me, but I didn't hit it at heavier or lighter swing weights to see if D8 was ideal. I'm also a little hesitant to jump from D4-D5 in my current irons, all the way to D8.

It's entirely possible I'm overthinking this. I hit the irons great at D8 and got significantly better numbers than my current set up.

In this case,  I don't think you are over thinking things.   If you weren't able to demo other SW's and actually compare the results, there is no way to really know if that is the best SW for you or not.   I would not think that a request to demo a wider variety of SW's before making a purchase would be unreasonable.

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#5 BrianL99

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:13 AM

View Postfawley, on 14 November 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

I had a full bag fitting at Club Champion last week. It was generally a very good experience. They made lie and loft adjustments to my putter, couldn't find clubs that fit me better than my current woods and hybrid, and found me some better distance and dispersion than my current irons.

As a result of the fitting, I've sourced a new set of Apex CF16 / Pro combo iron heads, and will have CC do the build to the specs recommended from my fitting.

The one number in the fitting that seemed odd was the recommended swing weight of D8. Callaway lists standard swing weight as D2. My irons will be +0.5" which would put them at D5.

I emailed the fitter today to ask why the club I hit measured D8, and whether the club connex fixture was the reason for such a high swing weight. I didn't really get a good answer on that one.

I also asked why he thought D8 was the correct swing weight for me, given it was the only swing weight I hit in that club. Again, I didn't really get a good answer beyond "you hit that one great". It's quite possible that it's right for me, but I didn't hit it at heavier or lighter swing weights to see if D8 was ideal. I'm also a little hesitant to jump from D4-D5 in my current irons, all the way to D8.

It's entirely possible I'm overthinking this. I hit the irons great at D8 and got significantly better numbers than my current set up.

Should I just order these to be built at D8?

There are those who will disagree with me, but I think "weight" or "heft" is the single biggest club factor, in making repeatable swings.

Whether you measure it with swingweight, moi or any other way, it's the one club factor that will impact every swing you make, without exception.


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#6 apprenti23

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:14 AM

Why do the manufacturers think D2 is the be all end all? Pretty sure itís a part of their whole longer lighter further misleading starategy. If you give me D2 Iíve zero accuracy- play my irons at D6 and plus 1/4Ē long and thatís even with midsize Grips and extra tape!
If the club you hit best was d8, Iíd just go with that. If they build lighter it may be too stiff. Three points isnít that big of a jump and many people discredit SW all together. Some people are more inclined to talk about MOI matching rather than SW matching. Iíve read Conex adapters add 1 point to SW so it couldíve just been the headshaft and length to getto that.

Edited by apprenti23, 15 November 2017 - 06:15 AM.


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#7 trhode

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:20 AM

This the problem with the Faz-Fit connector system. There is no easy way to change the swing weight. I use the Fuse-Fit connectors, which use the normal insertion depth of the shaft, and B weight heads. The SW usually ends up a touch in the light side. It is easy to add tip weights during a fitting and try different swing weights. They use the same system for woods. The only way to get the head lighter on a driver is to either remove/change a weight, if the driver has one, or try to remove hot melt, if it has it. This changes the playing characteristics of the head and could possibly make it perform different than the way it was designed.

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#8 baudi

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:49 AM

No. You are not overthinking.

if your fitter is wise/smart he will use MOI measurement beforehand to /find/set/explain the needed/wanted/best dynamic balance for your clubs. If the variables are clear then this value can be related to SW.
As far as I interpret the current situation your fitter does not use lighter heads (which are available from Callaway as seen in the tour van ) and offered a heavy shaft model.  
At over length my educated guess is that your MOI value is on the high side. Normal men's sets at regular length will be around 2650-2700.Your set will exceed 2800+
Unless you are strong snd young you will be capable to play D8. Or E5 for that matter. The tough issue is: can you handle this club for playability? On good days and bad days.

btw I do not use club connex. it disturbs the process too much. It is cheaper and far more accurate to assemble on the spot.

Edited by baudi, 15 November 2017 - 06:52 AM.


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#9 BrianL99

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:11 AM

View Postbaudi, on 15 November 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:


At over length my educated guess is that your MOI value is on the high side. Normal men's sets at regular length will be around 2650-2700.Your set will exceed 2800+


Shaft choice will have a major effect on the MOI value.  If he's using 95's-105's, his MOI will likely come in more like 2675-2725, at 1/2" over.

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#10 Valtiel

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:15 AM

It sounds to me like based on the responses you received that the fitter was just going off of "that looks good, lets go with that" without digging much deeper. I'd imagine you would have been more comfortable if you had managed to hit several swingweights and it turned out that D8 was the best of the bunch as opposed to just swinging the one, getting decent results, and calling it a day.

That said, going from D4-D5 up to D8 is not THAT big of a jump, i'd be much more concerned if you were at a more standard D2 to begin with. I agree with Stuart, it certainly would not have been unreasonable to request a few different weights to really figure out what works best for you, but I wouldn't be too terribly concerned overall.

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#11 fawley

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:38 AM

View PostGTPL, on 15 November 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

My guess is that you either have a slight over the top, or a short aggressive swing? Those are two reasons why I would GUESS the D8 may have given you better numbers. D8 isn't that much heavier; quite possible some basic gym time may be needed if one is exhausted by the 12th from D8...

I don't think the fitter specifically built the club to D8 to address a specific issue.  I think he screwed the club and shaft together, and it happened to measure D8.

I think / hope that the shaft / head combination was better for me than my current set up.  I assume it would have also been better for me at, say, D5, but I don't really know.

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#12 fawley

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:39 AM

View PostBrianL99, on 15 November 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

View Postbaudi, on 15 November 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

At over length my educated guess is that your MOI value is on the high side. Normal men's sets at regular length will be around 2650-2700.Your set will exceed 2800+


Shaft choice will have a major effect on the MOI value.  If he's using 95's-105's, his MOI will likely come in more like 2675-2725, at 1/2" over.

Shaft was C-Taper 120 S in Callaway Apex CF16 head playing at 38" (+0.5" over standard)

Edited by fawley, 15 November 2017 - 07:40 AM.


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#13 fawley

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:42 AM

View PostValtiel, on 15 November 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

It sounds to me like based on the responses you received that the fitter was just going off of "that looks good, lets go with that" without digging much deeper. I'd imagine you would have been more comfortable if you had managed to hit several swingweights and it turned out that D8 was the best of the bunch as opposed to just swinging the one, getting decent results, and calling it a day.

That said, going from D4-D5 up to D8 is not THAT big of a jump, i'd be much more concerned if you were at a more standard D2 to begin with. I agree with Stuart, it certainly would not have been unreasonable to request a few different weights to really figure out what works best for you, but I wouldn't be too terribly concerned overall.

That's exactly it.  Maybe D8 is the right swing weight, but it's all I hit in that set up, so I don't really know.  I've got no reason to think it won't work.  I'd just like to be sure that D8 (and not D5, E0, or some other number) is the best fit for me.

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#14 fawley

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:47 AM

View Postapprenti23, on 15 November 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

If the club you hit best was d8, I'd just go with that. If they build lighter it may be too stiff. Three points isn't that big of a jump and many people discredit SW all together. Some people are more inclined to talk about MOI matching rather than SW matching. I've read Conex adapters add 1 point to SW so it could've just been the headshaft and length to getto that.

Your point about how the shaft flexes at that swing weight is a good one.  I hadn't really considered that.

I'm moving from KBS Tour V 110 S to C-Taper 120 S which, at least anecdotally, is a stiffer shaft.  I guess it's possible that I hit that combo well because of the extra headlight.

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#15 bevans0222

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:48 AM

When I had my fitting at CC, the fitter told me the universal connector drove the swingweight up.  I had them built as I tested them, and am very happy with the results.  My 3w was D6 and my 3h was D8.

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#16 Lou04380

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:15 AM

View Postfawley, on 15 November 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 15 November 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

View Postbaudi, on 15 November 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

At over length my educated guess is that your MOI value is on the high side. Normal men's sets at regular length will be around 2650-2700.Your set will exceed 2800+


Shaft choice will have a major effect on the MOI value.  If he's using 95's-105's, his MOI will likely come in more like 2675-2725, at 1/2" over.

Shaft was C-Taper 120 S in Callaway Apex CF16 head playing at 38" (+0.5" over standard)

My experience was similar, but I was fitted to Z765's with c-taper 120's at +.75", my swing weight ended up at D6. I'm very happy with the feel of the heavier SW, I have a shorter 3/4 swing with my irons that's fairly aggressive so I think the heavier feel benefits me.  The good thing about CC is if you do go with their recommendation and find it too heavy they'll work with you to get it right.

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#17 baudi

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:30 AM

Have a similar set here: adams cmb heads with ctaper s. if the headweights are comparable the low moi will be around 2770-2780 .
SW will be variable due to grip. It will not exceed d8 with a std or mid.
From my PoV: your set will be a heavy set but not overly heavy.
If you play longer irons these could feel more sluggish.

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#18 BrianL99

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:40 AM

For what you have to pay at Club Champion, your fitting should be done right, no matter how long it takes and what they have to do.

Not determining the total weight or swingweight/MOI that's right for you, is the biggest mistake that can be made.

It's like going out to buy black shoes to wear with a tux and buying 2 sizes too big, because that's the size they had.  Stuffing tissue paper into the toes, isn't going to make the shoes fit right.

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