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Does the quality of your clubs eclipse the quality of your swing/game?


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#1 AceDad

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:09 PM

Basically this started as a joke and some rib poking with a good buddy. Well it got me thinking about all the high dollar and high "quality" clubs (and i use the word quality loosely) I see in some players bags that should not be in their bag to some extent. A player is lucky to break 90 and has all the newest and high tech (not game improvement by any means when it comes to high tech), has spent roughly 2 to 3K on his clubs but is not getting his money worth because his swing and game does not justify having these clubs in his bag.
There is a ton of variables that can be accounted for, I get that. Maybe he has the money and can afford it and his score is really insignificant to him. Maybe they just wants to show off. Maybe some were a gift or he found a great deal. I guess my thought is why do so many play clubs that do not fit their game? Whether it be shaft flex, length, loft and lie, brand loyal etc. I know it is and can be a very open ended discussion but why is there so much of it that happens. Advertising from the big boys?
I use myself as an example. I have around $700 invested in my entire bag. The clubs fit me, shafts, loft and lie, length, style and brands which is a somewhat mixed bag. It is pretty hard for me to shoot 85, usually sub 78 when I am actually putting effort into my round and the putter is working. That being said I don not believe the quality of my clubs eclipse my swing/game. I would consider them to be a 1 for 1 trade off.

Please don't be too harsh with the comments. Not trying to ridicule or put anyone down.

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#2 Pigems

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:15 PM

.

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Edited by Pigems, 14 November 2017 - 07:16 PM.

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#3 EvanScottKing

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:20 PM

Yes, yes they do.

Step one is acceptance...
Bag is comprised of Callaway & Edel.  WITB

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#4 Chuck905

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:23 PM

Some are blessed to play whatever they wish, anything wrong with that?

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#5 Mych

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:26 PM

Yes. It is absurd that I carry 2 adjustable fairways set at 13.5* and 16* rather than one normal 15* fairway. I shoot mid 80s which indicates that I'm not a good enough ball striker to really be that picky, but it makes me happy, lol.

Mine are older models that were bought used for cheap, so I'm not as bad as I could be.

Edited by Mych, 14 November 2017 - 07:28 PM.

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#6 Londoner

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:27 PM

So if you see my bag of Mizuno MP h5 s what do you assume i paid, including the 2 iron, £1,000? Well I paid 450 for the irons.
I play off 14 but can shoot 75. How do you judge if im worthy?

Edited by Londoner, 14 November 2017 - 07:29 PM.

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#7 LeoLeo99

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:33 PM

Not as bad as folks that slow poke around in their Porsches.

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#8 cgasucks

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:37 PM

My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs.  It is not by choice but because of necessity.  10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008.  Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford.  Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls.  In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.

Edited by cgasucks, 14 November 2017 - 07:39 PM.

9.5 deg Taylormade R7 Superquad (All Black First Edition) with stock Fujikura Reax TP shaft
1988 Tommy Armour 845s (3-PW, W3 (GW), SW) with stock TT Tour Step shafts
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#9 AceDad

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:46 PM

View Postcgasucks, on 14 November 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs.  It is not by choice but because of necessity.  10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008.  Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford.  Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls.  In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.
That's what I am talking about! Recognizing it and then putting the effort into your swing and game and making it better. Range balls, hard work and practice instead of new clubs! Awesome!

My big thing is watching some not letting go of their ego. An older gentleman that i have played with still wants to play blades, a 2 iron, an 8.5 driver with a D+ 72 whiteboard, s300 shafts etc. He is over 70 years old and thinks they are the best clubs for his game. Who cares how much the cost, and some are quality clubs but they totally eclipse his swing and game! He is lucky to break 90 with them all for the simple fact he is not willing to let go of the fact that he is not physically able to swing them the way he should. Too heavy, wrong setup and just everything. Why play something that is going to hurt your game instead of help it?!
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#10 BottleCap

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:46 PM

clubs are cheap, iíve spent way more on lessons and range balls than any set of clubs

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#11 Hit 'Em Straight

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:51 PM

I play off-brand clubs.  And yet the quality of my clubs still exceeds the quality of my game.  

I'm working on it.  Time will tell.  

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#12 Belmont148

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:54 PM

I never understand this debate. I think it usually stems from some sort of jealousy or just a need to brag about doing more with less. When I was fishing all the time, I never looked at a guy throwing $350 Sustain reels and thought, man what is he doing. He doesn't catch fish but wasted all that money on nice gear. Golf is a very cheap hobby, and dropping $2k on the "tools" to play the game is nothing. That's great that you play well with a $700 bag. Play your game and don't worry about others and what they have.

Also, I think you are mixing two different discussions. Playing clubs that don't fit your ability, and playing the nicest new gear even though you don't shoot very well. Nothing wrong with either IMO, but the former is a little tougher to understand than the latter.

Edited by Belmont148, 14 November 2017 - 07:56 PM.

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#13 cgasucks

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:00 PM

 AceDad, on 14 November 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

 cgasucks, on 14 November 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs.  It is not by choice but because of necessity.  10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008.  Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford.  Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls.  In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.
That's what I am talking about! Recognizing it and then putting the effort into your swing and game and making it better. Range balls, hard work and practice instead of new clubs! Awesome!

My big thing is watching some not letting go of their ego. An older gentleman that i have played with still wants to play blades, a 2 iron, an 8.5 driver with a D+ 72 whiteboard, s300 shafts etc. He is over 70 years old and thinks they are the best clubs for his game. Who cares how much the cost, and some are quality clubs but they totally eclipse his swing and game! He is lucky to break 90 with them all for the simple fact he is not willing to let go of the fact that he is not physically able to swing them the way he should. Too heavy, wrong setup and just everything. Why play something that is going to hurt your game instead of help it?!

I wish more people could check their ego at the door and get clubs that are really suited to them.  Don't be the guy who brags that he can belt it 280 when in reality it is only 180.  Know what your true swing speed and your actual iron distances and play off tees suitable to that .  You many not like what your local trackman will say but if you swallow your pride and accept the natural talent God gave you you will hit more GIR, shoot lower scores, and enjoy the game more.

Edited by cgasucks, 15 November 2017 - 08:35 AM.

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1988 Tommy Armour 845s (3-PW, W3 (GW), SW) with stock TT Tour Step shafts
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#14 sphna12d

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:02 PM

I didn't know there was a handicap limit to own nice golf equipment.

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#15 Jdavenp3

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:07 PM

 cgasucks, on 14 November 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

 AceDad, on 14 November 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

 cgasucks, on 14 November 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs.  It is not by choice but because of necessity.  10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008.  Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford.  Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls.  In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.
That's what I am talking about! Recognizing it and then putting the effort into your swing and game and making it better. Range balls, hard work and practice instead of new clubs! Awesome!

My big thing is watching some not letting go of their ego. An older gentleman that i have played with still wants to play blades, a 2 iron, an 8.5 driver with a D+ 72 whiteboard, s300 shafts etc. He is over 70 years old and thinks they are the best clubs for his game. Who cares how much the cost, and some are quality clubs but they totally eclipse his swing and game! He is lucky to break 90 with them all for the simple fact he is not willing to let go of the fact that he is not physically able to swing them the way he should. Too heavy, wrong setup and just everything. Why play something that is going to hurt your game instead of help it?!

I wish more people could check their ego at the door and get clubs that are really suited to them.  Don't be the guy who brags that he can belt it 280 when in reality it is only 180.  Know what your true swing speed and are actual iron distances are and play off tees suitable to that .  You many not like what your local trackman will say about your swing speed but if you swallow your pride and accept the natural talent God gave you you will hit more GIR, shoot lower scores, and enjoy the game more.

But what if its not those people's objectives to shoot lower scores? Maybe it is just a 4 hour reprieve that they get each week/month. I know plenty of guys that just like nice stuff, like to talk BS with their friends, and could care less about the outcome. Now I understand that if the people are chattering in a money game about how they normally carry it 300 and can't break 225 but I wouldn't assume that is a majority of folks.

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#16 mountaintop

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:10 PM

...

Edited by mountaintop, 15 November 2017 - 02:25 AM.

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#17 PowderedToastMan

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:10 PM

New rule of golf: even if youíre rich, if you canít break 90, you must play garbage clubs.
Former professional golfer. Current amateur human being. Reformed club ho.

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PING G30 8.4 w/ Tour 65 Stiff 44.25"
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#18 Dpak05

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:14 PM

My game is terrible but I like nice things...it's a serious problem.  Buying something is easy as a click of a button.
Driver: Titleist 915 D2
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#19 cgasucks

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:14 PM

 Jdavenp3, on 14 November 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

 cgasucks, on 14 November 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

 AceDad, on 14 November 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

 cgasucks, on 14 November 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

My game definitely eclipses the quality of my clubs.  It is not by choice but because of necessity.  10 years ago I could easily be the guy that can afford the latest tech from a major OEM but like most people have been affected because of the great recession of 2008.  Since I don't earn as much as I did back then I had to make do with the best clubs I can afford.  Any money that I do have that could've gone to club upgrading went to driving range balls.  In 3 years of hard work redoing my swing from scratch I gone from a player shooting in the 90s to one shooting in the 70s, all with a bunch of clubs with a combined value that is less than a new set of irons.
That's what I am talking about! Recognizing it and then putting the effort into your swing and game and making it better. Range balls, hard work and practice instead of new clubs! Awesome!

My big thing is watching some not letting go of their ego. An older gentleman that i have played with still wants to play blades, a 2 iron, an 8.5 driver with a D+ 72 whiteboard, s300 shafts etc. He is over 70 years old and thinks they are the best clubs for his game. Who cares how much the cost, and some are quality clubs but they totally eclipse his swing and game! He is lucky to break 90 with them all for the simple fact he is not willing to let go of the fact that he is not physically able to swing them the way he should. Too heavy, wrong setup and just everything. Why play something that is going to hurt your game instead of help it?!

I wish more people could check their ego at the door and get clubs that are really suited to them.  Don't be the guy who brags that he can belt it 280 when in reality it is only 180.  Know what your true swing speed and are actual iron distances are and play off tees suitable to that .  You many not like what your local trackman will say about your swing speed but if you swallow your pride and accept the natural talent God gave you you will hit more GIR, shoot lower scores, and enjoy the game more.

But what if its not those people's objectives to shoot lower scores? Maybe it is just a 4 hour reprieve that they get each week/month. I know plenty of guys that just like nice stuff, like to talk BS with their friends, and could care less about the outcome. Now I understand that if the people are chattering in a money game about how they normally carry it 300 and can't break 225 but I wouldn't assume that is a majority of folks.

There is nothing wrong with hacking it around with your buddies shooting 200 at Pebble Beach with clubs fresh from the tour van.  If the objective is having fun then there's nothing wrong with that.  It's their money.  But if one really wants to improve his/her game...

Edited by cgasucks, 14 November 2017 - 08:22 PM.

9.5 deg Taylormade R7 Superquad (All Black First Edition) with stock Fujikura Reax TP shaft
1988 Tommy Armour 845s (3-PW, W3 (GW), SW) with stock TT Tour Step shafts
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts
Ping Anser 2 Stainless Steel Putter

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#20 DeCuchi

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:19 PM

 LeoLeo99, on 14 November 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

Not as bad as folks that slow poke around in their Porsches.

Couldíve ended the thread right here. No one is topping this response. Simple and brilliant. I tip my hat to you sir!

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                you failed to plan!
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#21 billh17

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:37 PM

I was thinking for a couple years that my game was a lot better than my clubs....Most of the mishits,clunks and such were due
to the cheap clubs...then i played with an old gentleman....and he used my irons a couple times. His results with them did not
look anything like mine.I had never hit a ball that high with a 5 iron,nor flew a 7 iron like that.....totally convinced me that it
does not matter which clubs you have. If you are an 80's player or scratch or whatever,thats what you are.The enjoyment is what we play
the game for.
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#22 Tim Schoch

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:10 PM

I agree with some above:  I think that most folks don't know how the hell to choose clubs that suit their game to begin with. You have to have SOME idea before you go for a fitting. How many go for a fitting?  How many check the lofts and lies of used clubs?  How many find and install the proper grips?  How many shoot 88 and wonder if the next set of new clubs will produce the magic they need...and if not, is it the clubs, the shafts, or you?  

Some have money to buy what they want, some do not. But all should take care that their equipment suits their game. And if you can't, well, I suggest you get a set of Ping Eye2s or Eye2+. For some reason, a majority of golfers of all abilities can hit those babies very well.

All that said, most of us are mid-handicappers or worse--meaning, more than single-digit. I've beat single-digit handicappers with my lame game because I'm a good competitor, not because I'm a better golfer with advanced equipment. Strategy, smart leaves for putts, and a little trash talk goes a long way.  Plus, I have great confidence in the old clubs I'm playing. Most never even heard of the clubs I'm playing and try to make fun or ask why on earth I don't have the newest AP edition. Well, (a) can't afford (b) don't trust they are any better than my 2001 Hogans.  

You've heard it a million times: Golf is a solo game. You against the course and see how it ends up.

Maybe some are playing for another reason other than to shoot your best and have fun.  If you're trying to impress your buds with your expensive new clubs, well, bromance has its place I suppose, but it won't help you carve that 7 tight to win the hole.

Sorry, I am not one of those guys who is tolerant of folks who "just want to have fun" in a sport that takes skill to accomplish. If you can afford the very best, great, but put those tools to work and try to beat me and enjoy doing so, if you can. Otherwise, play putt-putt with the kids.

Edited by Tim Schoch, 14 November 2017 - 11:14 PM.

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Ping Pal 4 BeCu or Odyssey 2-Ball Blade putter

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#23 BKN1964

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:03 AM

I have a set of 2016 M2 irons and hybrids that I "fell" into for ~25% of retail brand new.  I also have full sets of clubs from just about every decade from the 50's to present.

When people ask me how I like my M2's, my response is always:  They're better than I am.

However, as a slow-swinging, short-hitting 15, I can say the same for just about any set of clubs you might find me playing.

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#24 Nessism

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:17 AM

A buddy of mine uses Ping i3 Blades, some 10 year old Cobra driver and fairway woods, a generic dimestore putter, etc, yet he's a single digit handicapper.  Does this imply some sort of superiority?  Obviously not.  This guy is just not into equipment and that's fine.  He spends his money traveling and playing nice courses whenever he can.  Simple value proposition.

Opposite this guy may be someone that shoots 90+ and use PXG's.  To me the car analogy is a good one; having nice hardware provides pleasure all it's own and there is nothing wrong with that.

As for me, I have no doubt that I could put together a bag that would play just as well as my gamers but hit a lower price point.  Does that mean the quality of my clubs is better than me?  Guess the answer would have to be yes!  I will say though that I got great deals on all my clubs and I do my own assembly so the cost of my gamers was quite reasonable.

Edited by Nessism, 15 November 2017 - 08:19 AM.

Ping G30 driver w/Adila Rogue Silver 60S
TEE XCG6 3 wood & E8 hybrids
Mizuno Hot Metal irons w/Recoil 95's
Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110's
Ping Anser putter - the "real deal!"

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#25 Tim Schoch

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:35 AM

 Nessism, on 15 November 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

A buddy of mine uses Ping i3 Blades, some 10 year old Cobra driver and fairway woods, a generic dimestore putter, etc, yet he's a single digit handicapper.  Does this imply some sort of superiority?  Obviously not.  This guy is just not into equipment and that's fine.  He spends his money traveling and playing nice courses whenever he can.  Simple value proposition.

Opposite this guy may be someone that shoots 90+ and use PXG's.  To me the car analogy is a good one; having nice hardware provides pleasure all it's own and there is nothing wrong with that.

As for me, I have no doubt that I could put together a bag that would play just as well as my gamers but hit a lower price point.  Does that mean the quality of my clubs is better than me?  Guess the answer would have to be yes!  I will say though that I got great deals on all my clubs and I do my own assembly so the cost of my gamers was quite reasonable.

I also think that deciding upon a set and sticking with them is key. You really can't practice with a different set each time you hit the range and still expect to improve. Sticking with a set (or putter) you love really does make a longterm difference.

Clubs don't swing themselves, so they are only as good as the hands they are in. So they can't be better than you are. Their *potential* in a more skilled player's hands might hold more possibilities, but it is irrelevant to you.

I like high-end running shoes, but I'll never break any records. But I am getting out of these shoes all the support and everything I am able. If I'd purchased junky shoes, they might provide less and actually hurt me.

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
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Ping Pal 4 BeCu or Odyssey 2-Ball Blade putter

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#26 mcs4

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:43 AM

For now.
SLDR 430
Cobra AMP 4w
Mizuno MP-H4 3, 4 (sometimes comes out in favor of Bertha Mini Driver)
Titleist 716 CB 5-PW
Titleist 716 AP2 GW
Cleveland Tour Action 54, 58
TaylorMade Itsy Bitsy Red or old Titleist/Acushnet Bullseye

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#27 Nessism

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:00 AM

 Tim Schoch, on 15 November 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

 Nessism, on 15 November 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

A buddy of mine uses Ping i3 Blades, some 10 year old Cobra driver and fairway woods, a generic dimestore putter, etc, yet he's a single digit handicapper.  Does this imply some sort of superiority?  Obviously not.  This guy is just not into equipment and that's fine.  He spends his money traveling and playing nice courses whenever he can.  Simple value proposition.

Opposite this guy may be someone that shoots 90+ and use PXG's.  To me the car analogy is a good one; having nice hardware provides pleasure all it's own and there is nothing wrong with that.

As for me, I have no doubt that I could put together a bag that would play just as well as my gamers but hit a lower price point.  Does that mean the quality of my clubs is better than me?  Guess the answer would have to be yes!  I will say though that I got great deals on all my clubs and I do my own assembly so the cost of my gamers was quite reasonable.

I also think that deciding upon a set and sticking with them is key. You really can't practice with a different set each time you hit the range and still expect to improve. Sticking with a set (or putter) you love really does make a longterm difference.

Clubs don't swing themselves, so they are only as good as the hands they are in. So they can't be better than you are. Their *potential* in a more skilled player's hands might hold more possibilities, but it is irrelevant to you.

I like high-end running shoes, but I'll never break any records. But I am getting out of these shoes all the support and everything I am able. If I'd purchased junky shoes, they might provide less and actually hurt me.

I've ho'ed my way through a lot of different iron sets because I enjoy that, and I can say unequivocally that there are at least a dozen different sets I've played that all functioned equally and didn't affect my ability to score.   I've also got several putters that I rotate and using different putters doesn't affect my score either.

Running shoes are completely different because they are in effect, safety devices.  Apples to oranges.
Ping G30 driver w/Adila Rogue Silver 60S
TEE XCG6 3 wood & E8 hybrids
Mizuno Hot Metal irons w/Recoil 95's
Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110's
Ping Anser putter - the "real deal!"

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#28 Halebopp

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:32 AM

The production quality and variance in a box set ( the driver might be 6.5 degrees with a lady-flex shaft, no 3 or 4 irons, a 5 iron that's 6 degrees flat and with an x-stiff shaft but the 7 iron being spot on to my specs) might be more on par with my swing and game as a high single digit player but I doubt I'd get better results with such a set than I do with my current clubs.

Edited by Halebopp, 15 November 2017 - 11:32 AM.

D: Mizuno MP-650, 9.5*, Orochi Red Stiff
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#29 Tex1986

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:30 PM

Nope. I shoot mid 80s and my ping G20 irons, G25 fairway and hybrid, and R9 Supertri driver are wonderful.

Regarding this topic in general. Each person is entitled to spend their $$ as they see fit.

If you want to talk about ridiculous cost for your hobby, try hockey goalie gear. It's close to $3k just for leg pads and gloves, that are completely shot/useless after only 2-3 years.

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#30 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:05 PM

Same old argument, some guys like golf clubs and tinkering (myself included)

Some guys like watches, guitars, cars, guns, bicycles, travel, cigars, wine etc.  Some guys can afford to like all these things .. and others I missed

Not the end of the world

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PIng s55 6 - PW Nippon Tour 1150GH x
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