Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

- - - - -

Flo'ing Project X 6.0 Shafts


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 TheHorse

TheHorse

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 18 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 480474
  • Joined: 08/29/2017
GolfWRX Likes : 1

Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:13 PM

So I've read a ton of content on this site and totally understand the controversy around Flo'ing / Spine finding.  I'm not sure how much if any benefit I'll get from this, but want to give it a go so I don't question it down the line.  I'm building a set with Maltby Heads and Project X 6.0 shafts and have a couple of questions regarding the process / equipment.

1) Will this setup work for flo'ing shafts (Bench Vise + Golfworks Cheap Rubber Shaft Clamp (https://www.golfwork...ft-clamp/p/RSC/) + laser pointer)
     I'm not sure if there will be too much play in this setup to get flo
2) For people who believe in the benefit of Flo'ing, does that just apply to graphite or is there benefit to flo'ing stiff steel shafts also?


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#2 Carvallo Golf

Carvallo Golf

    "Just gonna send it" - L.E.

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 474344
  • Joined: 07/09/2017
  • Location:Southern Ontario Canada
  • Handicap:MMJ
GolfWRX Likes : 61

Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:17 PM

rubber shaft clamps do not work very well for this.  Cheap DIY : cut a 2x4 the length of your vise, drill a 5/8" hole though it in the center lengthwise then cut it in half through splitting it through the hole.

I do it on my own clubs and any time I pull a shaft/head and re-assemble, unless the client cares more about how the shaft bands/labels line up.

Benefits/Performance? I'm not touching that

Edited by Carvallo Golf, 14 November 2017 - 02:22 PM.

Current WITB:
Driver: Taylormade R7 TP 8.5
Fwy Woods: new woods in process for next season
Irons: new set in process for next season
Wedges: Taylormade Tour Issue EF 54&60 deg w/TT DG X100
Putter: Slotline HMI w/Superstroke Slim 3.0
Ball: TP5 (bye bye bridgestone)

2

#3 Nessism

Nessism

    To measure is to know...

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,337 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 131490
  • Joined: 06/23/2011
  • Location:Torrance, CA
GolfWRX Likes : 6982

Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:26 PM

What tip weight?
Ping G30 driver w/Adila Rogue Silver 60S
TEE XCG6 3 wood & E8 hybrids
Mizuno Hot Metal irons w/Recoil 95's
Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110's
Ping Anser putter - the "real deal!"

3

#4 TheHorse

TheHorse

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 18 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 480474
  • Joined: 08/29/2017
GolfWRX Likes : 1

Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:38 PM

View PostNessism, on 14 November 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

What tip weight?

My plan is to use the head that I plan to attach, so they range from 240 - 291 grams.

4

#5 jasonp87

jasonp87

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,566 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 400570
  • Joined: 10/23/2015
GolfWRX Likes : 216

Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:31 PM

Goto your local health food store. Buy some sage, put it in the end of the shaft and burn it. Make sure laser is attached at other end.

In all honesty PX steel are made to quite tight tolerances so will be pretty pointless. But theres tons of threads if u wanna do it.

I do believe ull need a bigger tipweight then the head.


Driver-----Callaway Epic SZ (9.0*) Fujikura Pro 62 S 45.25"
3W---------Cobra King F6 3/4W (14.5*) Aldila Tour Blue 75 S 42.65"
5W---------Cobra King F6 Baffler 4/5W (17.5*) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
3H---------Cobra King F6 3/4H (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.5"
Irons-------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG 58/LG) C Taper S/KBS 610 Wedge S
Putter------Taylormade Spider Tour Black 34" SS Midslim 2.0
Golf Ball--Pro V1, ProV1x, Z Star, B300RX
Clubs TLT'D @ Dans Custom Golf

5

#6 SwingBlues

SwingBlues

    We are the Old Dark Navy Blues

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,910 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 44148
  • Joined: 12/18/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 378

Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:06 PM

View PostTheHorse, on 14 November 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

So I've read a ton of content on this site and totally understand the controversy around Flo'ing / Spine finding.  I'm not sure how much if any benefit I'll get from this, but want to give it a go so I don't question it down the line.  I'm building a set with Maltby Heads and Project X 6.0 shafts and have a couple of questions regarding the process / equipment.

1) Will this setup work for flo'ing shafts (Bench Vise + Golfworks Cheap Rubber Shaft Clamp (https://www.golfwork...ft-clamp/p/RSC/) + laser pointer)
I'm not sure if there will be too much play in this setup to get flo
2) For people who believe in the benefit of Flo'ing, does that just apply to graphite or is there benefit to flo'ing stiff steel shafts also?


Those rubber shaft clamp sucks, I tried it, not very good. I got this instead: https://www.golfwork...clamp/p/GW0051/

Well worth the money. I used it tonight to FLO a friends shaft for her.

I FLOed my KBS Tours 120s and I luv them. Much straighter imho. And I did my wedges as well. At the end of the day, it cost me nothing except my time, some epoxy and also some butane. Plus it's a lot of  FUN :partytime2:   as I posted in my own thread :idhitit:

ps Sage & Unicorn blood goes down very well, just blend it well :)

Edited by SwingBlues, 14 November 2017 - 11:07 PM.

Gamer: Callaway Epic SubZero, 9* Fujikura Limited Edition 17/150 "Masters" ATMOS 6X, finished length 44.25"

Mizuno FliHI 2 iron bent 1* strong, C-Taper Lite stiff shaft
Taylormade UDI 2 iron, 18* KBS C-Taper Lite stiff shaft
Ping 2012 Anser 4-PW KBS Tour 120 stiff shafts, soft stepped once with ProSoft inserts, MCC+4 grips
Cleveland RTX 3.0 Cavity Back 50* wedge

Cleveland RTX 3.0 Cavity Back 52* wedge
Nike Engage Toe Sweep 56* wedge
Directed Force  Reno Putter


Srixon XV4 Yellow 2015 / XV5 Yellow 2017
Swing: PPGS, a Surgite !!!

6

#7 Curious

Curious

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 43349
  • Joined: 12/06/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 35

Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:08 PM

View Postjasonp87, on 14 November 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

I do believe ull need a bigger tipweight then the head.

Why? Any head will do.

https://www.tutelman...boutSpines2.php
In finding FLO, you can use any convenient tip weight, as long as it is secured solidly to the shaft tip. The FLO planes will not change with the amount of weight. They won't even change if the weight is off-center -- which means there's no advantage to testing for FLO with the actual clubhead. John Kaufman did an interesting experiment to confirm this. From the CSFA Tech Notes:

Edited by Curious, 15 November 2017 - 07:16 AM.


7

#8 Nessism

Nessism

    To measure is to know...

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,337 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 131490
  • Joined: 06/23/2011
  • Location:Torrance, CA
GolfWRX Likes : 6982

Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:03 AM

Why is because the amplitude of vibration is much less with a smaller weight and thus, it's harder to pick up the line from the laser.
Ping G30 driver w/Adila Rogue Silver 60S
TEE XCG6 3 wood & E8 hybrids
Mizuno Hot Metal irons w/Recoil 95's
Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110's
Ping Anser putter - the "real deal!"

8

#9 Stuart G.

Stuart G.

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,337 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 174728
  • Joined: 04/12/2012
  • Location:New Hampshire
GolfWRX Likes : 4968

Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:44 AM

Surprised no one has mentioned it already but if you don't have any equipment to measure frequency - you can't tell which FLO plane you have or are working with - the spine or NBP  (strong or weak plane).

And if you can't tell the difference, then there is no way to make sure you are being consistent in the orientation through the whole set of irons so you might as well just use random orientations.

9

#10 Curious

Curious

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 43349
  • Joined: 12/06/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 35

Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:20 AM

View PostNessism, on 15 November 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

Why is because the amplitude of vibration is much less with a smaller weight and thus, it's harder to pick up the line from the laser.

I use the iron heads that match the shaft. That being said you can still get FLO with a lighter weight. It'll just oscillate at a faster rate.

And see post: http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry16440586

See the 2 videos below. That shaft is an old wedge shaft. In one video I used a drill chuck(about the equivalent weight of a driver head) In the other I used an old 8 iron head.





Edited by Curious, 15 November 2017 - 09:24 AM.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#11 TheHorse

TheHorse

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 18 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 480474
  • Joined: 08/29/2017
GolfWRX Likes : 1

Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:28 AM

View PostStuart G., on 15 November 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Surprised no one has mentioned it already but if you don't have any equipment to measure frequency - you can't tell which FLO plane you have or are working with - the spine or NBP  (strong or weak plane).

And if you can't tell the difference, then there is no way to make sure you are being consistent in the orientation through the whole set of irons so you might as well just use random orientations.

Sorry, just trying to learn here.  How about using a bearing based spine finder to identify the spine and then use that for orientation to get the right flo plane?

11

#12 Curious

Curious

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 43349
  • Joined: 12/06/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 35

Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:40 AM

View PostTheHorse, on 15 November 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 15 November 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Surprised no one has mentioned it already but if you don't have any equipment to measure frequency - you can't tell which FLO plane you have or are working with - the spine or NBP  (strong or weak plane).

And if you can't tell the difference, then there is no way to make sure you are being consistent in the orientation through the whole set of irons so you might as well just use random orientations.

Sorry, just trying to learn here.  How about using a bearing based spine finder to identify the spine and then use that for orientation to get the right flo plane?

That won"t give you the right info. Read this if interested:
https://www.tutelman...boutSpines2.php

12

#13 SwingBlues

SwingBlues

    We are the Old Dark Navy Blues

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,910 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 44148
  • Joined: 12/18/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 378

Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:24 PM

Curious - what the consensus here after the FLO is found, is the FLO line then oriented 3-9 or 12-6 plane when you build the club? Based on what I found, most builders seem to prefer the 3-9 o'clock plane. Tutelman, I think, appears to be 12-6 (unless I misunderstood). Whats the goya here? tia
Gamer: Callaway Epic SubZero, 9* Fujikura Limited Edition 17/150 "Masters" ATMOS 6X, finished length 44.25"

Mizuno FliHI 2 iron bent 1* strong, C-Taper Lite stiff shaft
Taylormade UDI 2 iron, 18* KBS C-Taper Lite stiff shaft
Ping 2012 Anser 4-PW KBS Tour 120 stiff shafts, soft stepped once with ProSoft inserts, MCC+4 grips
Cleveland RTX 3.0 Cavity Back 50* wedge

Cleveland RTX 3.0 Cavity Back 52* wedge
Nike Engage Toe Sweep 56* wedge
Directed Force  Reno Putter


Srixon XV4 Yellow 2015 / XV5 Yellow 2017
Swing: PPGS, a Surgite !!!

13

#14 Curious

Curious

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 43349
  • Joined: 12/06/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 35

Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:05 PM

View PostSwingBlues, on 15 November 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

Curious - what the consensus here after the FLO is found, is the FLO line then oriented 3-9 or 12-6 plane when you build the club? Based on what I found, most builders seem to prefer the 3-9 o'clock plane. Tutelman, I think, appears to be 12-6 (unless I misunderstood). Whats the goya here? tia

Seem you are right about the way Tutelman aligns his clubs:
https://www.tutelman...boutSpines6.php

Quote

Here is an interesting issue: if there is a significant spine, then the frequency at the spine is significantly different from the frequency at the NBP. So which of the two frequencies do I use for matching? Unlike most clubmakers who align spines, I trim to the spine frequency. The reason is that's where most of the bending occurs, if you align the spine in the heel-toe plane. You want the frequency (or stiffness, if you match by deflection) to be effective during bending, and most of the bending occurs in the heel-toe plane.


But he also states that he'll go out his way to find shafts with very negligible spines..

That being said I am no Tutelman by a long shot. I align the NBP to the target for the following reason,

Re: Spine vs NBP

Quote

Posted by Dekker
I hope this will simplify the relationship between the spine and NBP(neutral bend point) because the biggest mistake is to confuse the spines and the NBP for one-another.
Think of it as a ruler where the spine(s), the stiffest section of the shaft, is the top and bottom edge of the ruler.

The NBP lies on the flats of the ruler.

You can easily flex a ruler by exerting pressure on the flats.
You can barely bend the ruler by applying force on the edge.

the "flats"(NBP) of the shaft are directed in the 9-3 plane(target plane)
the edge(Spine) are in 12-6 position.

With the Spine in the 12-6 orientation the toe droop is minimized which increases the likelyhood for repeating a centered sweet spot contact.

That being said and if you believe in frequency matching then just frequency match the whole set in the same plane.

Edited by Curious, 15 November 2017 - 02:09 PM.


14

#15 TheHorse

TheHorse

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 18 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 480474
  • Joined: 08/29/2017
GolfWRX Likes : 1

Posted 15 November 2017 - 04:02 PM

Does anyone know of any cheap way to measure frequency?


15

#16 Curious

Curious

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 43349
  • Joined: 12/06/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 35

Posted 15 November 2017 - 05:01 PM

View PostTheHorse, on 15 November 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

Does anyone know of any cheap way to measure frequency?

Don't know if this will help: http://www.clubmaker...ency.meter.html

Edited by Curious, 15 November 2017 - 05:02 PM.


16

#17 TheHorse

TheHorse

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 18 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 480474
  • Joined: 08/29/2017
GolfWRX Likes : 1

Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:02 PM

View PostCurious, on 15 November 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

View PostTheHorse, on 15 November 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

Does anyone know of any cheap way to measure frequency?

Don't know if this will help: http://www.clubmaker...ency.meter.html

Super interesting, I thought about doing the same type of thing with an iphone camera.  Have you tried this?

Edited by TheHorse, 15 November 2017 - 06:03 PM.


17

#18 JCAG

JCAG

    John Curry

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,915 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 21371
  • Joined: 11/04/2006
  • Location:Lexington, SC
GolfWRX Likes : 205

Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:21 PM

I FLO horizontally and when FLO is found, I mark the top of the shaft with a line and this line goes a 12 noon address when building.

18

#19 Curious

Curious

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 43349
  • Joined: 12/06/2007
GolfWRX Likes : 35

Posted 16 November 2017 - 08:04 AM

View PostTheHorse, on 15 November 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

View PostCurious, on 15 November 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

View PostTheHorse, on 15 November 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

Does anyone know of any cheap way to measure frequency?

Don't know if this will help: http://www.clubmaker...ency.meter.html

Super interesting, I thought about doing the same type of thing with an iphone camera.  Have you tried this?

No I have not tried it. One could also build a deflection a home made deflection board as a cheap alternative.
If you're patient enough you can probably find a used FM that won't break the bank.

19



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors