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Is Bernhard Langer's 1.68 putts per game lowest for regular PGA as well


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#1 Neige

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:42 PM

A couple of weeks ago I saw this stat on golf channel, and the commentator (Chamblee?) said this would be the lowest for all pga, but not in a very convincing manner to me at least. This implies 30.24 putts per game. I thought pros do a bit better (e.g. I am only around 4 putts more as a high handicapper). Just wanted to confirm.
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#2 iteachgolf

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:45 PM

1.68 is putts per GIR.  Not per green.

Edited by iteachgolf, 13 November 2017 - 09:45 PM.


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#3 Neige

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:44 PM

Ok. That makes sense! Thank you.
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#4 Lacey Underall

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:47 PM

I also heard on the GC this weekend that statistically Langer is the best putter inside 6 feet on any Tour?  If that is true it is just absolutely shocking to me.  I mean if you were going to put $$ on Langer versus Spieth on the putting green who are you taking?
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#5 Z1ggy16

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:50 PM

 Lacey Underall, on 14 November 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

I also heard on the GC this weekend that statistically Langer is the best putter inside 6 feet on any Tour?  If that is true it is just absolutely shocking to me.  I mean if you were going to put $$ on Langer versus Spieth on the putting green who are you taking?
Actually Spieth is pretty average in short putts. He's stellar from a long ways away but shockingly average otherwise.

From his 2017 stats page:   
Putting from 4' 90.85% 124th   
Putting from 5' 80.39% 113th   
Putting from 6' 69.23% 107th
Putting from - 20-25'   21.98% 4th

Edited by Z1ggy16, 14 November 2017 - 03:53 PM.

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#6 ZBigStick

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:52 PM

Doesn’t a Chamblee know it’s all about strokes gained these days?!
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#7 Lacey Underall

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:17 PM

 Z1ggy16, on 14 November 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

 Lacey Underall, on 14 November 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

I also heard on the GC this weekend that statistically Langer is the best putter inside 6 feet on any Tour?  If that is true it is just absolutely shocking to me.  I mean if you were going to put $$ on Langer versus Spieth on the putting green who are you taking?
Actually Spieth is pretty average in short putts. He's stellar from a long ways away but shockingly average otherwise.

From his 2017 stats page:   
Putting from 4' 90.85% 124th   
Putting from 5' 80.39% 113th   
Putting from 6' 69.23% 107th
Putting from - 20-25'   21.98% 4th
I get your point there, it was just an easy example.  Personally, if I'm putting money on someone on the putting green....my man is Sneds.
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#8 Santiago Golf

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:12 PM

 ZBigStick, on 14 November 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Doesn’t a Chamblee know it’s all about strokes gained these days?!
They dont keep strokes gained stats on Champions tour
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#9 golfgirlrobin

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:55 PM

I think you probably have to take green speed into account, as well.  The seniors aren’t playing on greens as fast as the main tour is and it’s reflected in the numbers.  Langer didn’t go to the long putter because he was so comfortable on the greens.

Same as fairways hit.  LPGA players hit a ton of fairways, but you have to recognize that their fairways are quite a bit wider.

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#10 ZBigStick

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:59 PM

 Santiago Golf, on 14 November 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

 ZBigStick, on 14 November 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Doesn’t a Chamblee know it’s all about strokes gained these days?!
They dont keep strokes gained stats on Champions tour
The news hasn’t hit them yet?

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#11 leopoldstotch

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:50 AM

So, does he anchor?
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#12 tannyhoban

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 05:48 AM

Langer had an amazing year statistically.

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#13 Z1ggy16

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:10 AM

 Lacey Underall, on 14 November 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

 Z1ggy16, on 14 November 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

 Lacey Underall, on 14 November 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

I also heard on the GC this weekend that statistically Langer is the best putter inside 6 feet on any Tour?  If that is true it is just absolutely shocking to me.  I mean if you were going to put $$ on Langer versus Spieth on the putting green who are you taking?
Actually Spieth is pretty average in short putts. He's stellar from a long ways away but shockingly average otherwise.

From his 2017 stats page:   
Putting from 4' 90.85% 124th   
Putting from 5' 80.39% 113th   
Putting from 6' 69.23% 107th
Putting from - 20-25'   21.98% 4th
I get your point there, it was just an easy example.  Personally, if I'm putting money on someone on the putting green....my man is Sneds.
It's extremely hard to judge who is a "great" putter over the course of time because IMO the only true way to judge if you're a good putter is SG18 putting, which is a relatively new statistic. As we've said here at GolfWRX a billion times, just because you might have a low putts per round, doesn't mean you're a good putter, unless you happen to have a very long average 1st putt distance and also simultaneously a very low PPR average. You could be a god-like iron player, stick every approach within 6 feet, and hit 50% of them, for no more than 27 PPR. Doesn't make you good at putting.
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#14 North Butte

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:20 AM

 Neige, on 13 November 2017 - 09:42 PM, said:

A couple of weeks ago I saw this stat on golf channel, and the commentator (Chamblee?) said this would be the lowest for all pga, but not in a very convincing manner to me at least. This implies 30.24 putts per game. I thought pros do a bit better (e.g. I am only around 4 putts more as a high handicapper). Just wanted to confirm.
Thanks.

It’s a junk stat that does not actually measure putting ability specifically but rather a mashup of putting ability, approach shot proximity to hole and shot game.
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#15 Man_O_War

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:19 AM

he's the best long putter puttee in the history of the game.. the likes of which has never been seen before.

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#16 Anchor44

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:43 PM

 leopoldstotch, on 15 November 2017 - 12:50 AM, said:

So, does he anchor?
Does a bear poop in the woods?

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#17 cardoustie

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:12 PM

Langer is either a vampire or has discovered the fountain of youth near St. Augustine.  I hear his dog is called Ponce

Even more impressive is that he was a player with a severe case of the yips ...  and his swing is not textbook
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#18 PapaRat7

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 03:10 PM

He is an amazing player. I love the putting stroke he has.

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#19 rafal

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:10 PM

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#20 pappaf2

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:59 PM

 PapaRat7, on 15 November 2017 - 03:10 PM, said:

He is an amazing player. I love the putting stroke he has.

you love the long shaft pressed into his chest?

Edited by pappaf2, 15 November 2017 - 06:59 PM.

We're not here for a long time,
just a good time.

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#21 Medic

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:34 PM

Hang on - let me go and grab some popcorn real quick before this thread devolves into a "he is cheating and anchoring" conversation like oh so many others have done.
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#22 rafal

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:28 PM

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Hang on - let me go and grab some popcorn real quick before this thread devolves into a "he is cheating and anchoring" conversation like oh so many others have done.

Yeah like Fred Couples and other fellows who have to compete against him, those guys.

It's not the thread that devolved but the Champions Tour.
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#23 Medic

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:43 PM

 rafal, on 15 November 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Hang on - let me go and grab some popcorn real quick before this thread devolves into a "he is cheating and anchoring" conversation like oh so many others have done.

Yeah like Fred Couples and other fellows who have to compete against him, those guys.

It's not the thread that devolved but the Champions Tour.

Just gets a little old having the same conversations over and over about this issue. Those who feel so strongly should put their protests in writing. To the tour execs, the media and to anyone else who might listen and actually start the process of getting it addressed.

You're obviously PO'd about the issue. How many letters you written in? What other avenues have you exhausted?

My point is that complaining about this issue is like complaining about the weather. Does no good and does not change a thing.

This is NOT to imply that I am in favor or even against BL's putting method. If he wasn't keeping the ball in play with his other clubs and getting GIRs then whatever putting stroke/method he was using would not matter as much. And if it's such an incredible benefit to be gained (and is obviously being allowed by those whose thoughts on the matter actually count) then why aren't more of the pros turning to his method? If it's such an automatic method seems to me everyone would be switching.
To make your reply easier just copy and paste this:
They would switch but they recognize that he is cheating and don't want to win dishonestly. (Replies in threads such as this are fairly predictable)
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#24 TTGolf77

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:49 PM

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

 rafal, on 15 November 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Hang on - let me go and grab some popcorn real quick before this thread devolves into a "he is cheating and anchoring" conversation like oh so many others have done.

Yeah like Fred Couples and other fellows who have to compete against him, those guys.

It's not the thread that devolved but the Champions Tour.

Just gets a little old having the same conversations over and over about this issue. Those who feel so strongly should put their protests in writing. To the tour execs, the media and to anyone else who might listen and actually start the process of getting it addressed.

You're obviously PO'd about the issue. How many letters you written in? What other avenues have you exhausted?

My point is that complaining about this issue is like complaining about the weather. Does no good and does not change a thing.

This is NOT to imply that I am in favor or even against BL's putting method. If he wasn't keeping the ball in play with his other clubs and getting GIRs then whatever putting stroke/method he was using would not matter as much. And if it's such an incredible benefit to be gained (and is obviously being allowed by those whose thoughts on the matter actually count) then why aren't more of the pros turning to his method? If it's such an automatic method seems to me everyone would be switching.
To make your reply easier just copy and paste this:
They would switch but they recognize that he is cheating and don't want to win dishonestly. (Replies in threads such as this are fairly predictable)

If it wasn’t an advantage there wouldn’t of been a rule change.

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#25 Need4spd

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 12:04 AM

I’m still trying to get over the “I’ll take Sneds” and the “Kristie Kerr for my life” comments. Are these serious or are you fellas just trying to be unusually clever?

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#26 North Butte

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 06:32 AM

 TTGolf77, on 15 November 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

 rafal, on 15 November 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Hang on - let me go and grab some popcorn real quick before this thread devolves into a "he is cheating and anchoring" conversation like oh so many others have done.

Yeah like Fred Couples and other fellows who have to compete against him, those guys.

It's not the thread that devolved but the Champions Tour.

Just gets a little old having the same conversations over and over about this issue. Those who feel so strongly should put their protests in writing. To the tour execs, the media and to anyone else who might listen and actually start the process of getting it addressed.

You're obviously PO'd about the issue. How many letters you written in? What other avenues have you exhausted?

My point is that complaining about this issue is like complaining about the weather. Does no good and does not change a thing.

This is NOT to imply that I am in favor or even against BL's putting method. If he wasn't keeping the ball in play with his other clubs and getting GIRs then whatever putting stroke/method he was using would not matter as much. And if it's such an incredible benefit to be gained (and is obviously being allowed by those whose thoughts on the matter actually count) then why aren't more of the pros turning to his method? If it's such an automatic method seems to me everyone would be switching.
To make your reply easier just copy and paste this:
They would switch but they recognize that he is cheating and don't want to win dishonestly. (Replies in threads such as this are fairly predictable)

If it wasn’t an advantage there wouldn’t of been a rule change.

Your faith in the USGA is quite touching. But there is no advantage to “anchoring”, if there were then more than a few percent of golfers at every level would have been doing it.


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#27 TTGolf77

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 12:36 PM

 North Butte, on 16 November 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

 TTGolf77, on 15 November 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

 rafal, on 15 November 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Hang on - let me go and grab some popcorn real quick before this thread devolves into a "he is cheating and anchoring" conversation like oh so many others have done.

Yeah like Fred Couples and other fellows who have to compete against him, those guys.

It's not the thread that devolved but the Champions Tour.

Just gets a little old having the same conversations over and over about this issue. Those who feel so strongly should put their protests in writing. To the tour execs, the media and to anyone else who might listen and actually start the process of getting it addressed.

You're obviously PO'd about the issue. How many letters you written in? What other avenues have you exhausted?

My point is that complaining about this issue is like complaining about the weather. Does no good and does not change a thing.

This is NOT to imply that I am in favor or even against BL's putting method. If he wasn't keeping the ball in play with his other clubs and getting GIRs then whatever putting stroke/method he was using would not matter as much. And if it's such an incredible benefit to be gained (and is obviously being allowed by those whose thoughts on the matter actually count) then why aren't more of the pros turning to his method? If it's such an automatic method seems to me everyone would be switching.
To make your reply easier just copy and paste this:
They would switch but they recognize that he is cheating and don't want to win dishonestly. (Replies in threads such as this are fairly predictable)

If it wasn’t an advantage there wouldn’t of been a rule change.

Your faith in the USGA is quite touching. But there is no advantage to “anchoring”, if there were then more than a few percent of golfers at every level would have been doing it.

You have no idea if it’s an advantage or not. Lots of pros thought it was an advantage which is why there was a push to ban them. Your point about people not switching is nonsense because most pros just want to keep doing what they are used to and most amateurs want to do what they see the pros doing.

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#28 Medic

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 04:47 PM

 TTGolf77, on 16 November 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

You have no idea if it's an advantage or not.

Neither do you.

But if it were such an advantage then why wasn't there a mass exodus from other putters and method towards the belly and chest versions? Why wasn't every single tourney won by someone using one before the ban?

You have asserted that there was an advantage. Please provide the proof of this assertion. Because, on the contrary, I am not convinced it was so much a ban against an advantage that would benefit the majority as much as it was a ban based on the purity of the game.

Before you proceed, as a newer member, do a search on here about long putters and bans and you'll see this same sort of conversation has happened many, many times before. But it might be interesting for you to try to prove your initial assertion. Looking forward to it.
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#29 QuigleyDU

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 08:56 AM

 TTGolf77, on 15 November 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

 rafal, on 15 November 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

 Medic, on 15 November 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Hang on - let me go and grab some popcorn real quick before this thread devolves into a "he is cheating and anchoring" conversation like oh so many others have done.

Yeah like Fred Couples and other fellows who have to compete against him, those guys.

It's not the thread that devolved but the Champions Tour.

Just gets a little old having the same conversations over and over about this issue. Those who feel so strongly should put their protests in writing. To the tour execs, the media and to anyone else who might listen and actually start the process of getting it addressed.

You're obviously PO'd about the issue. How many letters you written in? What other avenues have you exhausted?

My point is that complaining about this issue is like complaining about the weather. Does no good and does not change a thing.

This is NOT to imply that I am in favor or even against BL's putting method. If he wasn't keeping the ball in play with his other clubs and getting GIRs then whatever putting stroke/method he was using would not matter as much. And if it's such an incredible benefit to be gained (and is obviously being allowed by those whose thoughts on the matter actually count) then why aren't more of the pros turning to his method? If it's such an automatic method seems to me everyone would be switching.
To make your reply easier just copy and paste this:
They would switch but they recognize that he is cheating and don't want to win dishonestly. (Replies in threads such as this are fairly predictable)

If it wasn't an advantage there wouldn't of been a rule change.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

sorry, i just thought that was really funny right there.
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#30 North Butte

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 09:02 AM

Caddies are supposedly an advantage. Why are they not outlawed?

Marking your ball and cleaning it before putting is definitely an advantage. Can we assume that will soon be outlawed?

The USGA/R&A make allow or disallow stuff ENTIRELY based on the whims of a bunch of old men accountable to no one but themselves. Their rule making has nothing to do with whether or not a particular action offers an advantage.

The current putter rules were put in place purely because they didn't like the way "belly putters" LOOKED. Just like the couple of decades that passed before they finally allowed (under some circumstances) the use of laser rangefinders. The then-head of R&A said lasers were not allowed because he didn't want to look out of his office window and see players on the Old Course using them.

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