Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

- - - - -

Charles Schwab Cup


117 replies to this topic

#91 Shilgy

Shilgy

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,106 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 235237
  • Joined: 03/07/2013
  • Location:Phoenix
  • Handicap:4.0
GolfWRX Likes : 4883

Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:44 PM

 tgoodspe1991, on 14 November 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Also, if golf wants a real "playoff" tournament, why don't they do a US Amateur style competition. Make the playoff one long tournament instead of 3-4 tournaments.

How about we restructure it like this?

Year long points are used to determine two things:

(1) Player of the Year -> no longer is it voted on by peers, it's determined strictly based on points before the final big tournament below. POTY comes with a cash bonus of $1M and it's own trophy/medal/ceremony/inaugeraton/whatever.

(2) Points determine your ability to compete in the final event on the year which is:

A lengthy US Amateur style tournament. Start with the top 64 for the year based on points. Not everyone, not even 100 people, only the Top 64, forget everyone else. POTY is already determined, so points don't matter anymore. This is simply for the big kahuna trophy that everyone wants to have. Like how NHL has a Stanley Cup, NFL has the superbowl trophy, this is simply for the
"cool factor" of being the guy holding the trophy. In this fashion, we SEPARATE the season long points race from the season ending event. This way, Langer would have "won the race" and already locked up POTY satisfying everyone who thinks he deserves it. Now it's a SEPARATE event to play for the final big trophy.

Make them play 3-4 days of stroke play to determine seeding into a match play event. Only the top 32 get into Match play.

Then do a round of 32, 16, 8, 4, then the lats 2 standing play for the [Insert Trophy Name Here].

Basically, separate the points from the actual playoff series. Make the points strictly about POTY and give the $1M bonus to POTY. That way it's already locked up, Langer gets all the praise, there's a big ceremony for Langer before this final tournament starts. Now it's the final tournament time to try and take home the big trophy.

I think in this way we still get drama of a final intense event, without feeling like anyone "stole" anything from anyone else.

I hope that rambling makes any sense haha

EDIT: In this way it makes winning POTY something that fans actually care about too. "Langer wins POTY and [insert award name] for 4th year in a row". Instead of how right now everyone (including me) basically thinks Langer's 4 year streak was stolen from him.
?? Langer is still easily the Player of the Year. No one stole that title from him.

TM M1 8.5* Graphite Design BB6s
TM M1 3w 14*  Kuro Kage 70X
Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-PW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
Cleveland  RTX CB 50* 54* 58* Nippon 125 wedge
Toulon Garage Rochester

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#92 widow-maker

widow-maker

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,398 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 309105
  • Joined: 04/16/2014
  • Location:Michigan
  • Handicap:2.7
  • Ebay ID:reiner53brown
GolfWRX Likes : 1424

Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:38 PM

 Holy Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

 reidv9819, on 13 November 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

People are misinterpreting the playoff system. In many instances the best team/player doesn't always win. In the media today most call Kevin Sutherland's win "controversial". Anything positive said about his win also includes statements that Langer was "robbed" of the title. Kevin did not have as impressive of a season as Langer, but still had an exceptional one with being in the top-5 in many stats. He is a deserving and well respected champion. A win for him was inevitable, and this win happened to come at the right time. POYs do not always win the season end race, and in the PGA tour only 5 of the last 10 winners have been POY, yet those Cup champions rarely recieved as much backlash as Kevin Sutherland. People need to learn to accept the established system and congratulate Kevin Sutherland as a champion of the game.

If the best team/player doesn't win, it's a crappy playoff system. In the NFL the best team always wins because you have to beat 3 or 4 great teams in a row. In the Champions Tour and PGA Tour, you just have be in the top-5 (where playoff wins are worth triple the points of major wins) and then hope the other 4 play worse than you. A true playoff system doesn't unfairly weight some events over others unless they are 1-on-1.
Then why have a playoff?  Just give Langer the trophy when he shows up on Thursday and tell everybody else they can go home.  This wasn't for player of the year.  This was a made up event to drum up interest in a season finale... just like the Tour Championship.  Plenty of players have won the Tour Championship and yet didn't have the best season.

2

#93 tgoodspe1991

tgoodspe1991

    Member

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 149 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 401182
  • Joined: 10/29/2015
  • Location:Southwest Florida
  • Handicap:+3.9
  • Ebay ID:tgoodspe1991
GolfWRX Likes : 101

Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:49 PM

 Shilgy, on 14 November 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

 tgoodspe1991, on 14 November 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Also, if golf wants a real "playoff" tournament, why don't they do a US Amateur style competition. Make the playoff one long tournament instead of 3-4 tournaments.

How about we restructure it like this?

Year long points are used to determine two things:

(1) Player of the Year -> no longer is it voted on by peers, it's determined strictly based on points before the final big tournament below. POTY comes with a cash bonus of $1M and it's own trophy/medal/ceremony/inaugeraton/whatever.

(2) Points determine your ability to compete in the final event on the year which is:

A lengthy US Amateur style tournament. Start with the top 64 for the year based on points. Not everyone, not even 100 people, only the Top 64, forget everyone else. POTY is already determined, so points don't matter anymore. This is simply for the big kahuna trophy that everyone wants to have. Like how NHL has a Stanley Cup, NFL has the superbowl trophy, this is simply for the
"cool factor" of being the guy holding the trophy. In this fashion, we SEPARATE the season long points race from the season ending event. This way, Langer would have "won the race" and already locked up POTY satisfying everyone who thinks he deserves it. Now it's a SEPARATE event to play for the final big trophy.

Make them play 3-4 days of stroke play to determine seeding into a match play event. Only the top 32 get into Match play.

Then do a round of 32, 16, 8, 4, then the lats 2 standing play for the [Insert Trophy Name Here].

Basically, separate the points from the actual playoff series. Make the points strictly about POTY and give the $1M bonus to POTY. That way it's already locked up, Langer gets all the praise, there's a big ceremony for Langer before this final tournament starts. Now it's the final tournament time to try and take home the big trophy.

I think in this way we still get drama of a final intense event, without feeling like anyone "stole" anything from anyone else.

I hope that rambling makes any sense haha

EDIT: In this way it makes winning POTY something that fans actually care about too. "Langer wins POTY and [insert award name] for 4th year in a row". Instead of how right now everyone (including me) basically thinks Langer's 4 year streak was stolen from him.
?? Langer is still easily the Player of the Year. No one stole that title from him.

Not saying anyone stole that title from him, you missed the point of my post.

"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated. It satisfies the soul and


frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening--and it is


without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."


- Arnold Palmer


3

#94 tgoodspe1991

tgoodspe1991

    Member

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 149 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 401182
  • Joined: 10/29/2015
  • Location:Southwest Florida
  • Handicap:+3.9
  • Ebay ID:tgoodspe1991
GolfWRX Likes : 101

Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:52 PM

 widow-maker, on 14 November 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

 Holy Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

 reidv9819, on 13 November 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

People are misinterpreting the playoff system. In many instances the best team/player doesn't always win. In the media today most call Kevin Sutherland's win "controversial". Anything positive said about his win also includes statements that Langer was "robbed" of the title. Kevin did not have as impressive of a season as Langer, but still had an exceptional one with being in the top-5 in many stats. He is a deserving and well respected champion. A win for him was inevitable, and this win happened to come at the right time. POYs do not always win the season end race, and in the PGA tour only 5 of the last 10 winners have been POY, yet those Cup champions rarely recieved as much backlash as Kevin Sutherland. People need to learn to accept the established system and congratulate Kevin Sutherland as a champion of the game.

If the best team/player doesn't win, it's a crappy playoff system. In the NFL the best team always wins because you have to beat 3 or 4 great teams in a row. In the Champions Tour and PGA Tour, you just have be in the top-5 (where playoff wins are worth triple the points of major wins) and then hope the other 4 play worse than you. A true playoff system doesn't unfairly weight some events over others unless they are 1-on-1.
Then why have a playoff?  Just give Langer the trophy when he shows up on Thursday and tell everybody else they can go home.  This wasn't for player of the year.  This was a made up event to drum up interest in a season finale... just like the Tour Championship.  Plenty of players have won the Tour Championship and yet didn't have the best season.

I think the reason people are upset is because the way the Champion's Tour did their "playoff" made it really only matter on the last event. I think a playoff system is fine, but if they reset the points, they need to do it in the beginning of the whole playoffs.

It's not just about Langer not winning, it's the fact that Langer won 7 times in the year including 2 playoff events, but apparently that wasn't enough to still win the whole thing.

The playoffs are NOT just 1 event, they were 3. The frustration comes from how someone who won 7 times in the year including 2 of the 3 playoff events lost to someone who only won 1 tournament all year. And also, if you were paying attention, Sutherland COULD have won the entire Cup too by just finishing solo 2nd.

So please tell me how you think the system is fair when a guy who won 2/3 playoff events could have lost to a guy finishing solo 2nd in one tournament?!

"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated. It satisfies the soul and


frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening--and it is


without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."


- Arnold Palmer


4

#95 Outlier

Outlier

    OUTLIER

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 987 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105230
  • Joined: 03/23/2010
  • Location:Ice Cold in Charlotte, NC
  • Handicap:1906
GolfWRX Likes : 288

Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:54 PM

 iBanesto, on 11 November 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

The cynics on this board would say Langer deserves to not win the Charles Schwab Cup :lol:

You mean because of the way he and McCarron cheat with the anchored stroke which enabled him to overcome the yips and an fact that he can't break 80 putting the way God intended?


5

#96 Outlier

Outlier

    OUTLIER

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 987 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105230
  • Joined: 03/23/2010
  • Location:Ice Cold in Charlotte, NC
  • Handicap:1906
GolfWRX Likes : 288

Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:55 PM

 tgoodspe1991, on 14 November 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

 widow-maker, on 14 November 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

 Holy Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

 reidv9819, on 13 November 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

People are misinterpreting the playoff system. In many instances the best team/player doesn't always win. In the media today most call Kevin Sutherland's win "controversial". Anything positive said about his win also includes statements that Langer was "robbed" of the title. Kevin did not have as impressive of a season as Langer, but still had an exceptional one with being in the top-5 in many stats. He is a deserving and well respected champion. A win for him was inevitable, and this win happened to come at the right time. POYs do not always win the season end race, and in the PGA tour only 5 of the last 10 winners have been POY, yet those Cup champions rarely recieved as much backlash as Kevin Sutherland. People need to learn to accept the established system and congratulate Kevin Sutherland as a champion of the game.

If the best team/player doesn't win, it's a crappy playoff system. In the NFL the best team always wins because you have to beat 3 or 4 great teams in a row. In the Champions Tour and PGA Tour, you just have be in the top-5 (where playoff wins are worth triple the points of major wins) and then hope the other 4 play worse than you. A true playoff system doesn't unfairly weight some events over others unless they are 1-on-1.
Then why have a playoff?  Just give Langer the trophy when he shows up on Thursday and tell everybody else they can go home.  This wasn't for player of the year.  This was a made up event to drum up interest in a season finale... just like the Tour Championship.  Plenty of players have won the Tour Championship and yet didn't have the best season.

I think the reason people are upset is because the way the Champion's Tour did their "playoff" made it really only matter on the last event. I think a playoff system is fine, but if they reset the points, they need to do it in the beginning of the whole playoffs.

It's not just about Langer not winning, it's the fact that Langer won 7 times in the year including 2 playoff events, but apparently that wasn't enough to still win the whole thing.

The playoffs are NOT just 1 event, they were 3. The frustration comes from how someone who won 7 times in the year including 2 of the 3 playoff events lost to someone who only won 1 tournament all year. And also, if you were paying attention, Sutherland COULD have won the entire Cup too by just finishing solo 2nd.

So please tell me how you think the system is fair when a guy who won 2/3 playoff events could have lost to a guy finishing solo 2nd in one tournament?!

But that's not what happened...and also Langer anchors which is cheating.

6

#97 canonlbp430

canonlbp430

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 9100
  • Joined: 12/27/2005
  • Location:Omaha, NE
GolfWRX Likes : 61

Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:04 PM

I get both sides of the argument. You can have someone win all the playoff events in the Fed Ex or Schwab cup and then get 20th in the last event and lose to someone who gets 2nd place. That's not right. But I also understand that you can't have a champion crowned before the last event even tees off.

If you view the playoffs as an aggregate that may help. Almost like one game that each Fed Ex Cup event is one quarter of (or Schwab cup is 1/3 of). They could possibly tie the points to not only finishing position of each event but also somehow to aggregate playoff score. That would reward the player that wins multiple events but would still cause them to have to play in the last event, and play somewhat decent, if they knew that they needed to win that aggregate points total to win the Cup if they didn't win the final tournament. This would also allow for the current system of increasing value on finishing position in the last tournament.

7

#98 Holy Moses

Holy Moses

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 180764
  • Joined: 05/14/2012
  • Location:Chicago
GolfWRX Likes : 2733

Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:28 PM

 widow-maker, on 14 November 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

 Holy Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

 reidv9819, on 13 November 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

People are misinterpreting the playoff system. In many instances the best team/player doesn't always win. In the media today most call Kevin Sutherland's win "controversial". Anything positive said about his win also includes statements that Langer was "robbed" of the title. Kevin did not have as impressive of a season as Langer, but still had an exceptional one with being in the top-5 in many stats. He is a deserving and well respected champion. A win for him was inevitable, and this win happened to come at the right time. POYs do not always win the season end race, and in the PGA tour only 5 of the last 10 winners have been POY, yet those Cup champions rarely recieved as much backlash as Kevin Sutherland. People need to learn to accept the established system and congratulate Kevin Sutherland as a champion of the game.

If the best team/player doesn't win, it's a crappy playoff system. In the NFL the best team always wins because you have to beat 3 or 4 great teams in a row. In the Champions Tour and PGA Tour, you just have be in the top-5 (where playoff wins are worth triple the points of major wins) and then hope the other 4 play worse than you. A true playoff system doesn't unfairly weight some events over others unless they are 1-on-1.
Then why have a playoff?  Just give Langer the trophy when he shows up on Thursday and tell everybody else they can go home.  This wasn't for player of the year.  This was a made up event to drum up interest in a season finale... just like the Tour Championship.  Plenty of players have won the Tour Championship and yet didn't have the best season.

If a player has a great playoffs, he should win the Cup. But Langer had a better playoffs than Sutherland.
Ping G30 LS Tec 10* (DI-6X)
Ping G30 17* 5W (Diamana D+ 83X)
Ping i20 3 (PXi 6.0), 4-UW (PX 6.0)
Ping Glide 56*SS, 60*ES (PX 6.0)
Ping Vault Arna

8

#99 Lil Spanky

Lil Spanky

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 390892
  • Joined: 08/12/2015
  • Location:Parts Unknown
GolfWRX Likes : 1010

Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:34 PM

 canonlbp430, on 14 November 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

But I also understand that you can't have a champion crowned before the last event even tees off.

I disagree. I don't think it's unfair to have someone basically win the Schwab Cup before the final event when that person has absolutely destroyed the competition all season. This just happens to be that rare year when it happened. I'd rather reward season long sustained excellence than create a contrived ending so we can have "drama" and an undeserved winner.
The K-Sig will do more than anything in history to change the course of humanity. . . The K-Sig is “The Chosen One.” It will have the power to impact nations. Not people. Nations!

9

#100 widow-maker

widow-maker

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,398 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 309105
  • Joined: 04/16/2014
  • Location:Michigan
  • Handicap:2.7
  • Ebay ID:reiner53brown
GolfWRX Likes : 1424

Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:08 PM

 Lil Spanky, on 14 November 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

 canonlbp430, on 14 November 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

But I also understand that you can't have a champion crowned before the last event even tees off.

I disagree. I don't think it's unfair to have someone basically win the Schwab Cup before the final event when that person has absolutely destroyed the competition all season. This just happens to be that rare year when it happened. I'd rather reward season long sustained excellence than create a contrived ending so we can have "drama" and an undeserved winner.
Again... then why even play the event?  It's not meant to coronate the best player of the year.  They have an award for that.  It's a season ending event that they're trying to drum up interest for.  They throw a ton of money into these season ending events but it doesn't really translate into anything more than that.  It's just a guy who won a tournament under rules that were set a little differently than normal.  They could do away with the Playoffs on both Tours and I don't think the golf viewers would be much affected.  Golf is over after the PGA Championship except when it's a Ryder Cup year.  The Playoffs are just filler and a nice additional payday.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#101 BIG STU

BIG STU

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,979 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 284204
  • Joined: 11/14/2013
  • Location:Garden City Beach SC
  • Handicap:5.0
GolfWRX Likes : 22271

Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:19 PM

Widow-maker actually it is all about the money for the PGA Tour. Back in the day this was known as the "silly season" when big corporate sponsors put up big money to promote events. They were actually non-sanctioned by the PGA Tour and the corporate sponsors and the broadcast stations made all the money. Then the PGA Tour decided to get their grubby little paws in it and thus the playoff and wraparound seasons were born. This helped kill some of the events like the "Skins Game" which was better viewing than a standard tournament excluding majors in those days. Actually the PGA Tour patterned their playoffs after NASCAR and their season ending points chase. That format worked good for NASCAR but it ain't working for golf.
Driver: Titleist 915 D-2 Mitsubishi Diamana 65 R
3 Wood Adams Super S 15* Bassara Regular flex
Hybrid - TM Rescue Mid 19* Pro Launch Blue
Hybrid- TM Rescue Mid 22* Stock TM Tip Stiff
2 iron 1999 Hogan Apex " Canadian Special" 19* S-300 Stock Tip Butt cut only ( yes a real Hogan Apex)
Irons -- 5 thru PW 2013 Callaway Forged X Rifle 5.5 PXI
GW Callaway BECU 50* S-300 hard tipped 1x
SW Callaway PM 56* FST wedge stock named "Mickey"

Putter - Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage rusty as heck nicknamed "Rusty"
Bag Old School TEE 3.5 stand

Founding Father of the Outlaw Golf Association Member #1 To heck with the USGA
Redneck Hippie Golf-- When the tailgate drops the BS stops

11

#102 Holy Moses

Holy Moses

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 180764
  • Joined: 05/14/2012
  • Location:Chicago
GolfWRX Likes : 2733

Posted 14 November 2017 - 06:00 PM

View Postwidow-maker, on 14 November 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

View PostLil Spanky, on 14 November 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

View Postcanonlbp430, on 14 November 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

But I also understand that you can't have a champion crowned before the last event even tees off.

I disagree. I don't think it's unfair to have someone basically win the Schwab Cup before the final event when that person has absolutely destroyed the competition all season. This just happens to be that rare year when it happened. I'd rather reward season long sustained excellence than create a contrived ending so we can have "drama" and an undeserved winner.
Again... then why even play the event?  It's not meant to coronate the best player of the year.  They have an award for that.  It's a season ending event that they're trying to drum up interest for.  They throw a ton of money into these season ending events but it doesn't really translate into anything more than that.  It's just a guy who won a tournament under rules that were set a little differently than normal.  They could do away with the Playoffs on both Tours and I don't think the golf viewers would be much affected.  Golf is over after the PGA Championship except when it's a Ryder Cup year.  The Playoffs are just filler and a nice additional payday.

If you have to lessen the drama at the end (which only happens every few years) in order to give a dearrving winner the Cup, thatís better to me than the possibility that a clear underperforming player can win every year
Ping G30 LS Tec 10* (DI-6X)
Ping G30 17* 5W (Diamana D+ 83X)
Ping i20 3 (PXi 6.0), 4-UW (PX 6.0)
Ping Glide 56*SS, 60*ES (PX 6.0)
Ping Vault Arna

12

#103 WidespreadPanic

WidespreadPanic

    Wizard in the Corner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,729 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 425856
  • Joined: 05/19/2016
  • Location:Washington DC
  • Handicap:1.1
GolfWRX Likes : 1107

Posted 14 November 2017 - 06:54 PM

So what if the Washington Capitals sweep their way to the Stanley Cup, but lose. You think they deserve the trophy anyways?
Taylormade M2 ('17) 11* Fujikura Speeder XLR8 Pro 63
Cobra F716* Fujikura Pro 73
Taylormade UDI 20* Aldila RIP Alpha 105 / Cobra Baffler 18.5* Aldila Tour Blue 75
Mizuno MPH5 4 iron DG S300
Mizuno MP33 5-PW DG S300
Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 52*
Titleist SM5 56*, 60*
Taylormade TP Red Ardmore 3
Bridgestone BXS

13

#104 Holy Moses

Holy Moses

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 180764
  • Joined: 05/14/2012
  • Location:Chicago
GolfWRX Likes : 2733

Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:36 PM

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 14 November 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

So what if the Washington Capitals sweep their way to the Stanley Cup, but lose. You think they deserve the trophy anyways?

That would be fine with me in theory, but thatís not what happened with Sutherland. Sutherland didnít win in the regular season and laid two eggs in the playoffs. The first two playoff events were his worst and third worst tournaments all year at T-27 and T-47. If Langer dominates all year and wins both playoff events, Sutherland shouldnít have the opportunity to beat him.

Edited by Holy Moses, 14 November 2017 - 07:37 PM.

Ping G30 LS Tec 10* (DI-6X)
Ping G30 17* 5W (Diamana D+ 83X)
Ping i20 3 (PXi 6.0), 4-UW (PX 6.0)
Ping Glide 56*SS, 60*ES (PX 6.0)
Ping Vault Arna

14

#105 Lil Spanky

Lil Spanky

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 390892
  • Joined: 08/12/2015
  • Location:Parts Unknown
GolfWRX Likes : 1010

Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:56 PM

View Postwidow-maker, on 14 November 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

View PostLil Spanky, on 14 November 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

View Postcanonlbp430, on 14 November 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

But I also understand that you can't have a champion crowned before the last event even tees off.

I disagree. I don't think it's unfair to have someone basically win the Schwab Cup before the final event when that person has absolutely destroyed the competition all season. This just happens to be that rare year when it happened. I'd rather reward season long sustained excellence than create a contrived ending so we can have "drama" and an undeserved winner.

Again... then why even play the event?

It's still a legitimate tour event with a legitimate winner--that's why. Sutherland deserves to be crowned as a tour winner and take home the champions paycheck. What he doesn't deserve is the Schwab Cup, which is the tour's ultimate award.

The K-Sig will do more than anything in history to change the course of humanity. . . The K-Sig is “The Chosen One.” It will have the power to impact nations. Not people. Nations!

15

#106 WidespreadPanic

WidespreadPanic

    Wizard in the Corner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,729 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 425856
  • Joined: 05/19/2016
  • Location:Washington DC
  • Handicap:1.1
GolfWRX Likes : 1107

Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:59 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 14 November 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 14 November 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

So what if the Washington Capitals sweep their way to the Stanley Cup, but lose. You think they deserve the trophy anyways?

That would be fine with me in theory, but that's not what happened with Sutherland. Sutherland didn't win in the regular season and laid two eggs in the playoffs. The first two playoff events were his worst and third worst tournaments all year at T-27 and T-47. If Langer dominates all year and wins both playoff events, Sutherland shouldn't have the opportunity to beat him.
wow I didnt realize he did so poorly in the playoffs. im sure they will change things up a bit.
Taylormade M2 ('17) 11* Fujikura Speeder XLR8 Pro 63
Cobra F716* Fujikura Pro 73
Taylormade UDI 20* Aldila RIP Alpha 105 / Cobra Baffler 18.5* Aldila Tour Blue 75
Mizuno MPH5 4 iron DG S300
Mizuno MP33 5-PW DG S300
Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 52*
Titleist SM5 56*, 60*
Taylormade TP Red Ardmore 3
Bridgestone BXS

16

#107 the bishop

the bishop

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,408 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 439390
  • Joined: 09/03/2016
  • Location:Richmond, TX
  • Handicap:6.5
GolfWRX Likes : 1244

Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:40 PM

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 14 November 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

So what if the Washington Capitals sweep their way to the Stanley Cup, but lose. You think they deserve the trophy anyways?
Haha.  But Sidney Crosby.
Bombtech Grenade 10.5* - S
TM M1 (2016) 15*  that stock Fujikura thing - S
W/S D100 19*/22* Matrix Ozik Altus - S
W/S FG Tour V6 5-P DG AMT S300
W/S FG Tour PMP 52/56/60 KBS Hi Rev 2.0
Scotty 5W

17

#108 Holy Moses

Holy Moses

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 180764
  • Joined: 05/14/2012
  • Location:Chicago
GolfWRX Likes : 2733

Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:02 PM

I just wonder if the sentiment would have been the same if Sutherland won the first two playoff events and Langer went T-47, T-27, 1 to win the Cup
Ping G30 LS Tec 10* (DI-6X)
Ping G30 17* 5W (Diamana D+ 83X)
Ping i20 3 (PXi 6.0), 4-UW (PX 6.0)
Ping Glide 56*SS, 60*ES (PX 6.0)
Ping Vault Arna

18

#109 Shilgy

Shilgy

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,106 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 235237
  • Joined: 03/07/2013
  • Location:Phoenix
  • Handicap:4.0
GolfWRX Likes : 4883

Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:46 AM

The Schwab Cup-The FedEx Cup-The Race to Dubai have absolutely nothing to do with the regular season. They are the playoffs. Period.

In the golf playoffs think of the events as rounds of the playoffs. It does not matter a bit if you sweep a seven game series or squeak by in the 7th game you advance. That is all the the first events are worth. Seeding for the finale.  So when you get to Phoenix CC in the Schwab Cup the other wins are out the window as far as the points are concerned. Wins do not matter-just seeding does. For years the fans screamed that golf should have a playoff system. Now the fans scream if the guy that did best in the regular season and early rounds of the playoffs doesn't get his "just" reward.  Langer laid the proverbial egg in the finale and lost.
TM M1 8.5* Graphite Design BB6s
TM M1 3w 14*  Kuro Kage 70X
Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-PW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
Cleveland  RTX CB 50* 54* 58* Nippon 125 wedge
Toulon Garage Rochester

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

19

#110 Lil Spanky

Lil Spanky

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 390892
  • Joined: 08/12/2015
  • Location:Parts Unknown
GolfWRX Likes : 1010

Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:54 AM

View PostShilgy, on 15 November 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Schwab Cup-The FedEx Cup-The Race to Dubai have absolutely nothing to do with the regular season. They are the playoffs. Period.

In the golf playoffs think of the events as rounds of the playoffs. It does not matter a bit if you sweep a seven game series or squeak by in the 7th game you advance. That is all the the first events are worth. Seeding for the finale.  So when you get to Phoenix CC in the Schwab Cup the other wins are out the window as far as the points are concerned. Wins do not matter-just seeding does. For years the fans screamed that golf should have a playoff system. Now the fans scream if the guy that did best in the regular season and early rounds of the playoffs doesn't get his "just" reward.  Langer laid the proverbial egg in the finale and lost.


The question is: how should golf do it?  Most people in this thread think they're doing it wrong. Because they are doing it wrong.

Edited by Lil Spanky, 15 November 2017 - 11:55 AM.

The K-Sig will do more than anything in history to change the course of humanity. . . The K-Sig is “The Chosen One.” It will have the power to impact nations. Not people. Nations!

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

20

#111 Shilgy

Shilgy

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,106 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 235237
  • Joined: 03/07/2013
  • Location:Phoenix
  • Handicap:4.0
GolfWRX Likes : 4883

Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:58 AM

Spanky-if you think they are doing it wrong then tell us how it should be. If you are going to call it a playoff it is not just a reward for the regular season and the finale has to be the deciding factor.  And yes, you will occasionally get results like NC State over Houston and the Giants over the Patriots. When the Patriots lost the Super Bowl after being undefeated until that point did you insist that the Patriots should get the trophy anyway?
TM M1 8.5* Graphite Design BB6s
TM M1 3w 14*  Kuro Kage 70X
Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-PW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
Cleveland  RTX CB 50* 54* 58* Nippon 125 wedge
Toulon Garage Rochester

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

21

#112 Holy Moses

Holy Moses

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 180764
  • Joined: 05/14/2012
  • Location:Chicago
GolfWRX Likes : 2733

Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:00 PM

View PostShilgy, on 15 November 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Schwab Cup-The FedEx Cup-The Race to Dubai have absolutely nothing to do with the regular season. They are the playoffs. Period.

In the golf playoffs think of the events as rounds of the playoffs. It does not matter a bit if you sweep a seven game series or squeak by in the 7th game you advance. That is all the the first events are worth. Seeding for the finale.  So when you get to Phoenix CC in the Schwab Cup the other wins are out the window as far as the points are concerned. Wins do not matter-just seeding does. For years the fans screamed that golf should have a playoff system. Now the fans scream if the guy that did best in the regular season and early rounds of the playoffs doesn't get his "just" reward.  Langer laid the proverbial egg in the finale and lost.

Itís not a true playoff system right now in any of the Tours you just mentioned because there is a points reset 2/3 of the way through the playoffs, a reset partially dependent on the regular season.

Want a true playoff system? Fine by me. Only the top 50 get to go through stage 1, only the top 30 through stage 2, and then the top 10 to stage 3. And anyone in the top 10 can win. There is no points reset.

If we want to do it that way, Sutherland would have been out after stage 2.

Edited by Holy Moses, 15 November 2017 - 01:20 PM.

Ping G30 LS Tec 10* (DI-6X)
Ping G30 17* 5W (Diamana D+ 83X)
Ping i20 3 (PXi 6.0), 4-UW (PX 6.0)
Ping Glide 56*SS, 60*ES (PX 6.0)
Ping Vault Arna

22

#113 Lil Spanky

Lil Spanky

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 817 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 390892
  • Joined: 08/12/2015
  • Location:Parts Unknown
GolfWRX Likes : 1010

Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:32 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 15 November 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 15 November 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Schwab Cup-The FedEx Cup-The Race to Dubai have absolutely nothing to do with the regular season. They are the playoffs. Period.

In the golf playoffs think of the events as rounds of the playoffs. It does not matter a bit if you sweep a seven game series or squeak by in the 7th game you advance. That is all the the first events are worth. Seeding for the finale.  So when you get to Phoenix CC in the Schwab Cup the other wins are out the window as far as the points are concerned. Wins do not matter-just seeding does. For years the fans screamed that golf should have a playoff system. Now the fans scream if the guy that did best in the regular season and early rounds of the playoffs doesn't get his "just" reward.  Langer laid the proverbial egg in the finale and lost.

It's not a true playoff system right now in any of the Tours you just mentioned because there is a points reset 2/3 of the way through the playoffs, a reset partially dependent on the regular season.

Want a true playoff system? Fine by me. Only the top 50 get to go through stage 1, only the top 30 through stage 2, and then the top 10 to stage 3. And anyone in the top 10 can win. There is no points reset.

If we want to do it that way, Sutherland would have been out after stage 2.

That would be superior to what we have now.
The K-Sig will do more than anything in history to change the course of humanity. . . The K-Sig is “The Chosen One.” It will have the power to impact nations. Not people. Nations!

23

#114 rangersgoalie

rangersgoalie

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,043 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 290733
  • Joined: 01/07/2014
  • Location:CA
GolfWRX Likes : 2080

Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:34 PM

Langer wins 1st
Langer wins second with aggregate score from one and two
Langer wins Schwab with low aggregate for 1,2,3


Pay out first and second event purses, but use aggregate for second

Make entire Schwab payout based on Aggregate score for the three.      Langer would have won.  Sutherland would have finished down quite a bit compared to the results

A great tournament can offset a Meh one.  A real bad round or tourney can wipe you out.  There are no cuts anyway, so dig in

24

#115 cdnglf

cdnglf

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,795 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 139540
  • Joined: 09/20/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 1194

Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:55 PM

View PostShilgy, on 15 November 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Spanky-if you think they are doing it wrong then tell us how it should be. If you are going to call it a playoff it is not just a reward for the regular season and the finale has to be the deciding factor.  And yes, you will occasionally get results like NC State over Houston and the Giants over the Patriots. When the Patriots lost the Super Bowl after being undefeated until that point did you insist that the Patriots should get the trophy anyway?

The best proposal I've heard for the Fedex Cup is as follows (presumably would also work for the Schwab Cup):

Players start the playoffs with a score based on their regular season performance (e.g. #1 starts at -10 and #125 starts at +10), to which their aggregate score over the four events is added. No in-tournament cuts, but after each tournament there's a cut based on that aggregate score.

Easy for the fans to understand, and makes the championship much more credible (no more giving the $10M to some rando who plays well in one tiny field event). Performance during the regular season is rewarded, but performance over the four cup events is more important.


25

#116 Shilgy

Shilgy

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,106 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 235237
  • Joined: 03/07/2013
  • Location:Phoenix
  • Handicap:4.0
GolfWRX Likes : 4883

Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:58 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 15 November 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 15 November 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Schwab Cup-The FedEx Cup-The Race to Dubai have absolutely nothing to do with the regular season. They are the playoffs. Period.

In the golf playoffs think of the events as rounds of the playoffs. It does not matter a bit if you sweep a seven game series or squeak by in the 7th game you advance. That is all the the first events are worth. Seeding for the finale.  So when you get to Phoenix CC in the Schwab Cup the other wins are out the window as far as the points are concerned. Wins do not matter-just seeding does. For years the fans screamed that golf should have a playoff system. Now the fans scream if the guy that did best in the regular season and early rounds of the playoffs doesn't get his "just" reward.  Langer laid the proverbial egg in the finale and lost.

It's not a true playoff system right now in any of the Tours you just mentioned because there is a points reset 2/3 of the way through the playoffs, a reset partially dependent on the regular season.

Want a true playoff system? Fine by me. Only the top 50 get to go through stage 1, only the top 30 through stage 2, and then the top 10 to stage 3. And anyone in the top 10 can win. There is no points reset.

If we want to do it that way, Sutherland would have been out after stage 2.
If there is no playoff points reset it is not a playoff.

That is the problem the tour is balancing. Folks want a playoff system but they are afraid no one will watch if the favorites are eliminated early.
TM M1 8.5* Graphite Design BB6s
TM M1 3w 14*  Kuro Kage 70X
Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-PW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
Cleveland  RTX CB 50* 54* 58* Nippon 125 wedge
Toulon Garage Rochester

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

26

#117 HitEmTrue

HitEmTrue

    @HitEmTrue1

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,434 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 93756
  • Joined: 09/04/2009
  • Location:North Texas
GolfWRX Likes : 1425

Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:20 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 15 November 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Want a true playoff system? Fine by me. Only the top 50 get to go through stage 1, only the top 30 through stage 2, and then the top 10 to stage 3. And anyone in the top 10 can win. There is no points reset.

If we want to do it that way, Sutherland would have been out after stage 2.

Wasn't Sutherland was #5 going into the final?  So you really do want a points reset (to zero?), but before stage 1?

Edited by HitEmTrue, 15 November 2017 - 07:22 PM.


27

#118 Holy Moses

Holy Moses

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,394 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 180764
  • Joined: 05/14/2012
  • Location:Chicago
GolfWRX Likes : 2733

Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:50 PM

 HitEmTrue, on 15 November 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

 Holy Moses, on 15 November 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Want a true playoff system? Fine by me. Only the top 50 get to go through stage 1, only the top 30 through stage 2, and then the top 10 to stage 3. And anyone in the top 10 can win. There is no points reset.

If we want to do it that way, Sutherland would have been out after stage 2.

Wasn't Sutherland was #5 going into the final?  So you really do want a points reset (to zero?), but before stage 1?

Sutherland was in the top-5 going into the final, but that was only due to his regular season. When the playoffs start, Iíd prefer everyone to have equal points. You get in the first round solely based on your regular season. Youíre basically just getting rid of the below average players.
Ping G30 LS Tec 10* (DI-6X)
Ping G30 17* 5W (Diamana D+ 83X)
Ping i20 3 (PXi 6.0), 4-UW (PX 6.0)
Ping Glide 56*SS, 60*ES (PX 6.0)
Ping Vault Arna

28



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors