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Charles Schwab Cup


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#61 DON SVO

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:30 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

Iím all for someone getting hot in the playoffs and winning the Schwab Cup. But Langer was by far the hottest player in the playoffs (and the regular season) by a wide margin.

You can be as hot as you want to be, if you fail to perform in the pinnacle game of your respective sport (Super Bowl, Game 7 World Series, Game 7 Stanley Cup, etc.) you allow a lesser player the opportunity to shine. Just like my example above about the Patriots and losing to the Giants. Were they (Giants) a good team that year? Yeah, but they sure as hell werenít the best by a long shot. However, they (like Sutherland) were given an opportunity to shine brighter. And they did.

But the Giants won game after game after game in the playoffs. Sutherland got beat multiple times by Langer in the playoffs. Langer had one bad round, equal to losing in one quarter of the Superbowl. That should not be enough to win when you are getting slaughtered until that point. It wasnít equivalent to Pats coming back from 28-3 because Langer was up 70-3.

Langer played mediocre golf all weekend, dude. Sutherland didnít. Since itís currently a points accumulation setup, and since Sutherland played really solid golf all playoffs long, he was in a position to capitalize. Itís really just that simple.

No, itís not that simple since Langer outplayed Sutherland all season and overall during the playoffs.

How did Langer play the Big Show when it mattered? He sucked. Just like the Patriots did against the Giants. Bust your butt all season long to get into a great position for the final game and donít deliver, well, you lose.

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#62 NDS55

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:31 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostNDS55, on 13 November 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

View PostNDS55, on 13 November 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Langer was definitely the best player going into the weekend, and if he had performed even close to his season average, he would be laughing all the way to the bank. However, he finished outside the top ten when everything was on the line. How close should he have had to be in order to be awarded the championship, and who should have been able to take it away from him?

If you want to take the Cup away from a guy with 5 wins including 3 majors going into the playoffs, you shouldn't be able to win the Schwab Cup after this guy goes on to win more playoff events than you.

No one should have been able to take the Cup from Langer after he won the first two playoff events.

You feel then that the final tournament should not decide the season championship? Langer should have won even if he had withdrawn, or not entered at all?

It depends on how tight the race is up until the playoffs and the finale. The points reset before the finale has to be more fair and dependent somewhat on the regular season but more dependent on the previous two playoff tournaments.

Points could be maybe 20% regular season, 20% each of the first two playoff tournaments, and 40% season finale.

I don't disagree with you, but the system has to be in place before the start of the season. If the race is extremely close, a reset should benefit the leaders, and if it is a huge gap, it should be tightened up, but not as much as the present system. I'm sure that they could come up with a formula that would allow for a gap that will give the bottom of the field a theoretical chance, but  favor the leader even more when he has dominated the field.
Personally, I think that the final event should have a much larger purse, and award a lot of points toward the cup, but if you have a huge points lead, you could miss the tourney and still take the cup. That's not how they run the program though so, as Langer said, rules are rules, and they all agreed to them. Rules change, and Langer might not even be there.

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#63 Atrayn

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:32 PM

View Postbuckeyefl, on 13 November 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

View PostAtrayn, on 13 November 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

Threads like this kill me.

A guy plays so consistent the entire year, he has an outside chance to win the cup. He plays so well at the season ending event that he wins it. Langer plays bad enough that he loses it. So what, congratulate the winner!
I also do not like the long putter. I think whether or not it is anchored is too ambiguous to determine and it gives an unfair advantage because of it. However, both are allowed within the current rules.

So be it. The good news is that rules can be changed. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Either way everyone has to deal with it the way it is.

In the end, like everything else, it's about entertainment value ($$$$)

You have to be kidding with that ridiculous secomd paragraph.  Seriously one of the dumbest, uninformed comments of the year.

Seriously? All I stated was the facts. What's dumb and uninformed? I didn't say I liked it, however I will take the trophy!
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#64 Holy Moses

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:34 PM

View PostNDS55, on 13 November 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostNDS55, on 13 November 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

View PostNDS55, on 13 November 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Langer was definitely the best player going into the weekend, and if he had performed even close to his season average, he would be laughing all the way to the bank. However, he finished outside the top ten when everything was on the line. How close should he have had to be in order to be awarded the championship, and who should have been able to take it away from him?

If you want to take the Cup away from a guy with 5 wins including 3 majors going into the playoffs, you shouldn't be able to win the Schwab Cup after this guy goes on to win more playoff events than you.

No one should have been able to take the Cup from Langer after he won the first two playoff events.

You feel then that the final tournament should not decide the season championship? Langer should have won even if he had withdrawn, or not entered at all?

It depends on how tight the race is up until the playoffs and the finale. The points reset before the finale has to be more fair and dependent somewhat on the regular season but more dependent on the previous two playoff tournaments.

Points could be maybe 20% regular season, 20% each of the first two playoff tournaments, and 40% season finale.

I don't disagree with you, but the system has to be in place before the start of the season. If the race is extremely close, a reset should benefit the leaders, and if it is a huge gap, it should be tightened up, but not as much as the present system. I'm sure that they could come up with a formula that would allow for a gap that will give the bottom of the field a theoretical chance, but  favor the leader even more when he has dominated the field.
Personally, I think that the final event should have a much larger purse, and award a lot of points toward the cup, but if you have a huge points lead, you could miss the tourney and still take the cup. That's not how they run the program though so, as Langer said, rules are rules, and they all agreed to them. Rules change, and Langer might not even be there.

Agreed and Iím confident the Champions Tour will adjust so yesterdayís scenario doesnít happen again
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#65 Holy Moses

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:42 PM

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:


You can be as hot as you want to be, if you fail to perform in the pinnacle game of your respective sport (Super Bowl, Game 7 World Series, Game 7 Stanley Cup, etc.) you allow a lesser player the opportunity to shine. Just like my example above about the Patriots and losing to the Giants. Were they (Giants) a good team that year? Yeah, but they sure as hell werenít the best by a long shot. However, they (like Sutherland) were given an opportunity to shine brighter. And they did.

But the Giants won game after game after game in the playoffs. Sutherland got beat multiple times by Langer in the playoffs. Langer had one bad round, equal to losing in one quarter of the Superbowl. That should not be enough to win when you are getting slaughtered until that point. It wasnít equivalent to Pats coming back from 28-3 because Langer was up 70-3.

Langer played mediocre golf all weekend, dude. Sutherland didnít. Since itís currently a points accumulation setup, and since Sutherland played really solid golf all playoffs long, he was in a position to capitalize. Itís really just that simple.

No, itís not that simple since Langer outplayed Sutherland all season and overall during the playoffs.

How did Langer play the Big Show when it mattered? He sucked. Just like the Patriots did against the Giants. Bust your butt all season long to get into a great position for the final game and donít deliver, well, you lose.

Your scenario isnít completely comparable to the Schwab Cup because while the Giants never lost in the playoffs, Sutherland finished T47 and T27 in his two playoff tournaments, 27 strokes behind Langer. He played really poorly in the playoffs until he got to Phoenix.

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#66 DON SVO

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:53 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

Your scenario isnít completely comparable to the Schwab Cup because while the Giants never lost in the playoffs, Sutherland finished T47 and T27 in his two playoff tournaments, 27 strokes behind Langer. He played really poorly in the playoffs until he got to Phoenix.

So just like the super bowl, past records didnít matter when it was crunch time... the guy that played best in the Championship won the championship.
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#67 handicap122003

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:00 PM

It would have been great for Sr golf  if Daly won.   Just like when he won his PGA championship and the British open.

Edited by handicap122003, 13 November 2017 - 09:00 PM.


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#68 Holy Moses

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:15 PM

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

Your scenario isn't completely comparable to the Schwab Cup because while the Giants never lost in the playoffs, Sutherland finished T47 and T27 in his two playoff tournaments, 27 strokes behind Langer. He played really poorly in the playoffs until he got to Phoenix.

So just like the super bowl, past records didn't matter when it was crunch time... the guy that played best in the Championship won the championship.

Sutherland only got to the "Super Bowl" because he had a good regular season. Did the Giants get to the Super Bowl because they had a good regular season? Nope.
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#69 Holy Moses

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:16 PM

View Posthandicap122003, on 13 November 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

It would have been great for Sr golf  if Daly won.   Just like when he won his PGA championship and the British open.

He supposedly hurt his knee real bad at the Powershares, but I heard no updates about his knee other than that he played OK in Phoenix. He's one guy that would really be a boon to the Champions Tour if he can duel with Langer next year. But I just don't ever see consistency out of John.
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#70 DON SVO

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:36 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

Your scenario isn't completely comparable to the Schwab Cup because while the Giants never lost in the playoffs, Sutherland finished T47 and T27 in his two playoff tournaments, 27 strokes behind Langer. He played really poorly in the playoffs until he got to Phoenix.

So just like the super bowl, past records didn't matter when it was crunch time... the guy that played best in the Championship won the championship.

Sutherland only got to the "Super Bowl" because he had a good regular season. Did the Giants get to the Super Bowl because they had a good regular season? Nope.

Itís supposed to be that way presently. While I would prefer a sudden death cut (120 to 60 to 30 to winner) itís currently a points system and Sutherland got the job done.

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#71 Shilgy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM

Hey Moses. I gotta ask. A few years back in the FedEx Cup it was VJ or Tiger that had clinched the Cup before the season finale as I recall. We're you posting them that the playoffs were messed up? What would be the point of continuing if all was decided?
  So yes in golf there is precedent, as surely you already know a so why the wailing and gnashing of teeth?  
  As others have posted.... Just like in other sports the playoffs in golf have absolutely nothing to do with awarding the player that had the best year.  It's a contrived system to pay a bunch of guys more money for the entertainment value. The Schwab Cup being win by Sutherland does not mean he gets player of the year over Langer. It just means he gets more playoffs dough.

Edited by Shilgy, 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM.

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#72 Holy Moses

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:47 PM

View PostShilgy, on 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Hey Moses. I gotta ask. A few years back in the FedEx Cup it was VJ or Tiger that had clinched the Cup before the season finale as I recall. We're you posting them that the playoffs were messed up? What would be the point of continuing if all was decided?
  So yes in golf there is precedent, as surely you already know a so why the wailing and gnashing of teeth?  
  As others have posted.... Just like in other sports the playoffs in golf have absolutely nothing to do with awarding the player that had the best year.  It's a contrived system to pay a bunch of guys more money for the entertainment value. The Schwab Cup being win by Sutherland does not mean he gets player of the year over Langer. It just means he gets more playoffs dough.

I wasn't on this board when VJ and Tiger were dueling.

What was the point of playing the tournament if Bernard had already won the Cup before it was played? What was the point of Bay Hill, the Memorial, Akron, and Torrey Pines having tournaments when it was nearly assured that Tiger would win? We really can't give the Cup to a guy who worked his butt and and is deserved just so we can keep drama alive? This is what sports has sunk to? We can't award greatness because it would take some of the drama out of the Champions Tour finale? I see a lot of posts where people are bemoaning Greg Norman's bad golf cart/gps/iPad idea because people can't like golf for golf. Yet we applaud the Champions Tour for putting themselves in a position where the second-best player wins a tournament so some fringe golf fans can stay excited for the tournament. That's not a formula for long-term success.

I've said it a few times already: the playoffs should (for the most part) reward the player that had the best playoffs. And Langer had the best playoffs. If you average 30th for the first two playoff events, you shouldn't win the Cup just because you win the last event.

Sutherland doesn't deserve the dough either. I'd be extra pissed that I dominated Sutherland all year and in the playoffs overall and he gets $1 million. And he only got it because TV had to get what, 50k extra viewers.

Edited by Holy Moses, 13 November 2017 - 11:49 PM.

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#73 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:49 PM

Everybody knows the playoff events give you the ability to control your own destiny in the championship. The players ALL KNEW THAT going in. Sutherland took advantage, Langer didnt. Case closed. Congrats to the winner.
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#74 grm24

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:50 PM

View PostShilgy, on 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

A few years back in the FedEx Cup it was VJ or Tiger that had clinched the Cup before the season finale as I recall.

The Schwab Cup being win by Sutherland does not mean he gets player of the year over Langer. It just means he gets more playoffs dough.
Both Tiger and VJ had clinched the FEC prior to the Tour Championship.

Your last statement sums the Champions Tour finale up perfectly. The larger problem is golf trying to have a true playoff system like football, baseball, basketball, etc when it simply can't be done. There was never any need for professional golf to have a "playoff" system. Hats off to the PGA Tour management for convincing sponsors to foot the bill for the FEC and SC.

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#75 Holy Moses

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:51 PM

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 13 November 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

Everybody knows the playoff events give you the ability to control your own destiny in the championship. The players ALL KNEW THAT going in. Sutherland took advantage, Langer didnt. Case closed. Congrats to the winner.

What part of finishing on average 30th for the first two playoff events should give you the ability to control your own destiny? Sutherland can't win a single tournament all year, but he gets to control his own destiny. Stupid.

Edited by Holy Moses, 13 November 2017 - 11:54 PM.

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#76 Holy Moses

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:52 PM

View Postgrm24, on 13 November 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

A few years back in the FedEx Cup it was VJ or Tiger that had clinched the Cup before the season finale as I recall.

The Schwab Cup being win by Sutherland does not mean he gets player of the year over Langer. It just means he gets more playoffs dough.
Both Tiger and VJ had clinched the FEC prior to the Tour Championship.

Your last statement sums the Champions Tour finale up perfectly. The larger problem is golf trying to have a true playoff system like football, baseball, basketball, etc when it simply can't be done. There was never any need for professional golf to have a "playoff" system. Hats off to the PGA Tour management for convincing sponsors to foot the bill for the FEC and SC.

Unless they went match play for the final event. But TV hates that too. They'd much rather see the great Kevin Sutherland win.
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#77 grm24

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:54 PM

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

View PostDON SVO, on 13 November 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

Your scenario isn't completely comparable to the Schwab Cup because while the Giants never lost in the playoffs, Sutherland finished T47 and T27 in his two playoff tournaments, 27 strokes behind Langer. He played really poorly in the playoffs until he got to Phoenix.

So just like the super bowl, past records didn't matter when it was crunch time... the guy that played best in the Championship won the championship.

Sutherland only got to the "Super Bowl" because he had a good regular season. Did the Giants get to the Super Bowl because they had a good regular season? Nope.

It's supposed to be that way presently. While I would prefer a sudden death cut (120 to 60 to 30 to winner) it's currently a points system and Sutherland got the job done.
The Champions Tour did cut the fields. First "playoff" event started at 72 players then cut to 54 players then 36 for the finals. The FEC cuts players as well. 125 to 100 to 70 to 30.

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#78 grm24

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:58 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

View Postgrm24, on 13 November 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

A few years back in the FedEx Cup it was VJ or Tiger that had clinched the Cup before the season finale as I recall.

The Schwab Cup being win by Sutherland does not mean he gets player of the year over Langer. It just means he gets more playoffs dough.
Both Tiger and VJ had clinched the FEC prior to the Tour Championship.

Your last statement sums the Champions Tour finale up perfectly. The larger problem is golf trying to have a true playoff system like football, baseball, basketball, etc when it simply can't be done. There was never any need for professional golf to have a "playoff" system. Hats off to the PGA Tour management for convincing sponsors to foot the bill for the FEC and SC.

Unless they went match play for the final event. But TV hates that too. They'd much rather see the great Kevin Sutherland win.
Funny you mention match play. Kevin Sutherlands only PGA Tour win was the 2002 WGC Match Play event. Beating the immortal Scott McCarron in the finals. Definitely must miss tv back then for certain.

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#79 iBanesto

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:20 AM

View Postwidow-maker, on 13 November 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 12 November 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

Sutherland wins the tournament and the Charles Schwab Cup. What a shame!
If they were to just give the cup to Langer because he's had the best season, then why even play the season ending tournament?  If an NFL team goes 16-0 in the regular season, should they just be handed the Super Bowl trophy?  It's a playoff system put in place to create drama at the end of the season.  It's not a culmination ending in a coronation.  The Fed Ex Cup is pretty much the same thing.

Slightly different format though.

Golf is not head to head games. You have to beat whole the field and Langer did that numerous times this year.

I still find it unfair to Langer.

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#80 Holy Moses

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 06:33 AM

View PostiBanesto, on 14 November 2017 - 04:20 AM, said:

View Postwidow-maker, on 13 November 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 12 November 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

Sutherland wins the tournament and the Charles Schwab Cup. What a shame!
If they were to just give the cup to Langer because he's had the best season, then why even play the season ending tournament?  If an NFL team goes 16-0 in the regular season, should they just be handed the Super Bowl trophy?  It's a playoff system put in place to create drama at the end of the season.  It's not a culmination ending in a coronation.  The Fed Ex Cup is pretty much the same thing.

Slightly different format though.

Golf is not head to head games. You have to beat whole the field and Langer did that numerous times this year.

I still find it unfair to Langer.

Including beating the field twice in the playoffs

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#81 DON SVO

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:02 AM

View Postgrm24, on 13 November 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

The Champions Tour did cut the fields. First "playoff" event started at 72 players then cut to 54 players then 36 for the finals. The FEC cuts players as well. 125 to 100 to 70 to 30.

Iím talking sudden death, as in there being no points accrual during the playoffs.
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#82 Pat du Golf

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:48 AM

Sutherland has never been called on the way or equipment he is using.... but BL is flirting with the rules.
KS won fair and square with the lowest score.
BL has asterisk on ALL his victories post lp ban
I can assure you all that the majority of senior players are HAPPY for KS.

By the way, another Sr player flirting with the rules, Sacramento born is hated as well by his peers.
Drinks on us KS

Edited by Pat du Golf, 14 November 2017 - 09:52 AM.

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#83 Pat du Golf

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:57 AM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Hey Moses. I gotta ask. A few years back in the FedEx Cup it was VJ or Tiger that had clinched the Cup before the season finale as I recall. We're you posting them that the playoffs were messed up? What would be the point of continuing if all was decided?
  So yes in golf there is precedent, as surely you already know a so why the wailing and gnashing of teeth?  
  As others have posted.... Just like in other sports the playoffs in golf have absolutely nothing to do with awarding the player that had the best year.  It's a contrived system to pay a bunch of guys more money for the entertainment value. The Schwab Cup being win by Sutherland does not mean he gets player of the year over Langer. It just means he gets more playoffs dough.

I wasn't on this board when VJ and Tiger were dueling.

What was the point of playing the tournament if Bernard had already won the Cup before it was played? What was the point of Bay Hill, the Memorial, Akron, and Torrey Pines having tournaments when it was nearly assured that Tiger would win? We really can't give the Cup to a guy who worked his butt and and is deserved just so we can keep drama alive? This is what sports has sunk to? We can't award greatness because it would take some of the drama out of the Champions Tour finale? I see a lot of posts where people are bemoaning Greg Norman's bad golf cart/gps/iPad idea because people can't like golf for golf. Yet we applaud the Champions Tour for putting themselves in a position where the second-best player wins a tournament so some fringe golf fans can stay excited for the tournament. That's not a formula for long-term success.

I've said it a few times already: the playoffs should (for the most part) reward the player that had the best playoffs. And Langer had the best playoffs. If you average 30th for the first two playoff events, you shouldn't win the Cup just because you win the last event.

Sutherland doesn't deserve the dough either. I'd be extra pissed that I dominated Sutherland all year and in the playoffs overall and he gets $1 million. And he only got it because TV had to get what, 50k extra viewers.

Great point, if Langer wins 99% of the tournaments, so the league assumed that under any format he will win?? Hahahahaha.
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#84 Shilgy

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:12 AM

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Hey Moses. I gotta ask. A few years back in the FedEx Cup it was VJ or Tiger that had clinched the Cup before the season finale as I recall. We're you posting them that the playoffs were messed up? What would be the point of continuing if all was decided?
  So yes in golf there is precedent, as surely you already know a so why the wailing and gnashing of teeth?  
  As others have posted.... Just like in other sports the playoffs in golf have absolutely nothing to do with awarding the player that had the best year.  It's a contrived system to pay a bunch of guys more money for the entertainment value. The Schwab Cup being win by Sutherland does not mean he gets player of the year over Langer. It just means he gets more playoffs dough.

I wasn't on this board when VJ and Tiger were dueling.

What was the point of playing the tournament if Bernard had already won the Cup before it was played? What was the point of Bay Hill, the Memorial, Akron, and Torrey Pines having tournaments when it was nearly assured that Tiger would win? We really can't give the Cup to a guy who worked his butt and and is deserved just so we can keep drama alive? This is what sports has sunk to? We can't award greatness because it would take some of the drama out of the Champions Tour finale? I see a lot of posts where people are bemoaning Greg Norman's bad golf cart/gps/iPad idea because people can't like golf for golf. Yet we applaud the Champions Tour for putting themselves in a position where the second-best player wins a tournament so some fringe golf fans can stay excited for the tournament. That's not a formula for long-term success.

I've said it a few times already: the playoffs should (for the most part) reward the player that had the best playoffs. And Langer had the best playoffs. If you average 30th for the first two playoff events, you shouldn't win the Cup just because you win the last event.

Sutherland doesn't deserve the dough either. I'd be extra pissed that I dominated Sutherland all year and in the playoffs overall and he gets $1 million. And he only got it because TV had to get what, 50k extra viewers.
Since you like to compare other sports.....I give you the 1960 World Series.  The Yankees outscored the Pirates 55-27 in the seven games. AND LOST.  Someone else mentioned the Giants over the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Any question the Patriots were the more dominant team in the season and playoffs?  NC State over Phi Slamma Jamma ring a bell?

  IMO you are way too hung up on the "logic".  Yes Langer dominated the playoffs and lost the finale. It happens, often, in any sport with a playoff system.
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#85 tgoodspe1991

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:37 AM

I'm not going to read all of the posts, but the fact is simple that the current "playoff" system is flawed. Why? Because they reset the points going into the LAST event. That doesn't make any sense. As a post before mentions, with this system, Langer could win every single tournament all year and still not win the points race due to the reset.

If they want to reset points, reset them at the beginning of the playoffs, and let everyone race for it in the last 3 events given how their positions shake out. Langer won 2/3 of the playoffs and still didn't win.

There was even a point in time where Sutherland could have finished 2nd place and won the whole thing. So you're going to argue the system isn't flawed?!?!

Langer wins 7 times and 2 majors and 2 playoff events and STILL could have lost the whole thing to a guy with 0 wins who finished 2nd in the last tournament. Sure, it's slightly more palatable because he actually won, but the fact that a guy with 7 wins almost lost to a guy that finished 2nd in one tournament makes for an incredibly flawed system, there's really no arguing against that.

EDIT: Also, to the point about "drama" in the playoffs. There is no "drama" in watching 3 final tournaments of the year. Golf has drama all year long. The Major Championships are "dramatic". Watching Langer win 7 times is "dramatic". Fans of the game don't want the Tour to build "fake" drama by manipulating the results. Almost every fan wanted Langer to win the Cup 4 years in a row, THAT'S authentic drama. Seeing Sutherland take it away due to a flawed system wasn't "dramatic" it was just incredibly deflating.

Edited by tgoodspe1991, 14 November 2017 - 10:39 AM.

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#86 tgoodspe1991

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:42 AM

View PostPat du Golf, on 14 November 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

Sutherland has never been called on the way or equipment he is using.... but BL is flirting with the rules.
KS won fair and square with the lowest score.
BL has asterisk on ALL his victories post lp ban
I can assure you all that the majority of senior players are HAPPY for KS.

By the way, another Sr player flirting with the rules, Sacramento born is hated as well by his peers.
Drinks on us KS

Nobody gives a rat's behind about the long putter except the few extremists such as yourself. He's not cheating, it's plain and simple. He's just a good putter with it. You only care so much because Langer wins so much. He wins so often and makes so many putts that you assume SOMETHING must be wrong with the way he plays the game. If all of the long putter users were in the bottom of the money list you wouldn't pay any attention to it. However, since one is a very, very good player, you immediately have to say the equipment he's using is the reason why he's so good. Langer wins so much, he must be cheating!

Langer is just flat out good. He doesn't cheat. He used a putter that's longer that normal and it doesn't anchor to his body whatsoever, it's just longer than normal putters, that's all. Get over yourself lol

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#87 cdnglf

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:57 AM

View PostShilgy, on 14 November 2017 - 10:12 AM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 13 November 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 13 November 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Hey Moses. I gotta ask. A few years back in the FedEx Cup it was VJ or Tiger that had clinched the Cup before the season finale as I recall. We're you posting them that the playoffs were messed up? What would be the point of continuing if all was decided?
  So yes in golf there is precedent, as surely you already know a so why the wailing and gnashing of teeth?  
  As others have posted.... Just like in other sports the playoffs in golf have absolutely nothing to do with awarding the player that had the best year.  It's a contrived system to pay a bunch of guys more money for the entertainment value. The Schwab Cup being win by Sutherland does not mean he gets player of the year over Langer. It just means he gets more playoffs dough.

I wasn't on this board when VJ and Tiger were dueling.

What was the point of playing the tournament if Bernard had already won the Cup before it was played? What was the point of Bay Hill, the Memorial, Akron, and Torrey Pines having tournaments when it was nearly assured that Tiger would win? We really can't give the Cup to a guy who worked his butt and and is deserved just so we can keep drama alive? This is what sports has sunk to? We can't award greatness because it would take some of the drama out of the Champions Tour finale? I see a lot of posts where people are bemoaning Greg Norman's bad golf cart/gps/iPad idea because people can't like golf for golf. Yet we applaud the Champions Tour for putting themselves in a position where the second-best player wins a tournament so some fringe golf fans can stay excited for the tournament. That's not a formula for long-term success.

I've said it a few times already: the playoffs should (for the most part) reward the player that had the best playoffs. And Langer had the best playoffs. If you average 30th for the first two playoff events, you shouldn't win the Cup just because you win the last event.

Sutherland doesn't deserve the dough either. I'd be extra pissed that I dominated Sutherland all year and in the playoffs overall and he gets $1 million. And he only got it because TV had to get what, 50k extra viewers.
Since you like to compare other sports.....I give you the 1960 World Series.  The Yankees outscored the Pirates 55-27 in the seven games. AND LOST.  Someone else mentioned the Giants over the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Any question the Patriots were the more dominant team in the season and playoffs?  NC State over Phi Slamma Jamma ring a bell?

  IMO you are way too hung up on the "logic".  Yes Langer dominated the playoffs and lost the finale. It happens, often, in any sport with a playoff system.

I hate the team sport comparisons, but this is more like Yankees finishing 25 games ahead during the regular season, beating the Pirates in the division series, beating them again in the LCS and then the Pirates finally squeaking one out in the WS.

The PGA Tour is so concerned with generating "excitement" that they've produced supposedly season-long "championships" of little competitive significance, because they're so random. In the case of the Fedex Cup, they've placed extraordinary weight on a silly little 30 man event that is held on a mediocre course. Charles Schwab sounds similar.

Edited by cdnglf, 14 November 2017 - 11:56 AM.


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#88 stasek

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:18 AM

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#89 Lil Spanky

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:52 AM

Golf is not football.

Golf is not baseball.

When the season ending cup goes to someone who won exactly one tournament over someone who won 7, the system is broken and needs to be fixed. Sutherland may have won the award based on the faulty points system, but he doesn't deserve it.

Edited by Lil Spanky, 14 November 2017 - 11:52 AM.

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#90 tgoodspe1991

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:01 PM

Also, if golf wants a real "playoff" tournament, why don't they do a US Amateur style competition. Make the playoff one long tournament instead of 3-4 tournaments.

How about we restructure it like this?

Year long points are used to determine two things:

(1) Player of the Year -> no longer is it voted on by peers, it's determined strictly based on points before the final big tournament below. POTY comes with a cash bonus of $1M and it's own trophy/medal/ceremony/inaugeraton/whatever.

(2) Points determine your ability to compete in the final event on the year which is:

A lengthy US Amateur style tournament. Start with the top 64 for the year based on points. Not everyone, not even 100 people, only the Top 64, forget everyone else. POTY is already determined, so points don't matter anymore. This is simply for the big kahuna trophy that everyone wants to have. Like how NHL has a Stanley Cup, NFL has the superbowl trophy, this is simply for the
"cool factor" of being the guy holding the trophy. In this fashion, we SEPARATE the season long points race from the season ending event. This way, Langer would have "won the race" and already locked up POTY satisfying everyone who thinks he deserves it. Now it's a SEPARATE event to play for the final big trophy.

Make them play 3-4 days of stroke play to determine seeding into a match play event. Only the top 32 get into Match play.

Then do a round of 32, 16, 8, 4, then the lats 2 standing play for the [Insert Trophy Name Here].

Basically, separate the points from the actual playoff series. Make the points strictly about POTY and give the $1M bonus to POTY. That way it's already locked up, Langer gets all the praise, there's a big ceremony for Langer before this final tournament starts. Now it's the final tournament time to try and take home the big trophy.

I think in this way we still get drama of a final intense event, without feeling like anyone "stole" anything from anyone else.

I hope that rambling makes any sense haha

EDIT: In this way it makes winning POTY something that fans actually care about too. "Langer wins POTY and [insert award name] for 4th year in a row". Instead of how right now everyone (including me) basically thinks Langer's 4 year streak was stolen from him.

Edited by tgoodspe1991, 14 November 2017 - 12:04 PM.

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frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening--and it is


without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."


- Arnold Palmer


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