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Takeaway - hands go in clubhead goes out


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#1 Saltire

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:31 PM

I was watching some of the European Tour golf from South Africa today, Gary Player was in the studio for a while. He mentioned that yesterday, at 82 years-old, he shot a round of 70 where he dind't miss a single fairway.

He attributed this to the fact that he had found the proper way to get the club in position in the backswing. He said on the takeaway that the hands go in and the clubhead goes out, can anyone explain how this works??

He also said that the club should point down the line at the top and NOT laid off.


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#2 Yff Theos

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:40 PM

Different swings for differently aged bodies. When he was 30 he was laid-off and his takeaway was not as he describes now.

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#3 Millbrook

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:46 PM

Do you think he means not rolling the lead arm?
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#4 Saltire

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:54 PM

 Yff Theos, on 09 November 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

Different swings for differently aged bodies. When he was 30 he was laid-off and his takeaway was not as he describes now.

Correct, he did say it had taken him 72 years to learn the correct backswing movement.

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#5 dlygrisse

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:57 PM

Sounds like he is just maintaining the triangle.  Probably similar to the Jim Waldron thread.  

The real lesson here is that an 9 time major winner is still working on his swing.  No one ever perfects anything.

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#6 sethdavidsdad

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:57 PM

It is combination not rolling the forearms too early and working the hands in at the start
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#7 dwboston

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:29 PM

 sethdavidsdad, on 09 November 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

It is combination not rolling the forearms too early and working the hands in at the start

This.  In one of the first lessons I took, the pro advocated keeping the clubhead outside the hands on the way back.  The feeling to do this (for me) is: trail arm "above" lead arm on the backswing...or don't roll the forearms early.   The problem I had executing it then was not understanding the wrist set and how it played a role, and the pro at the time didn't talk about that - he had me almost throwing the club up from that point, which felt really unnatural.

Monte covers this in his video on the three components of the backswing - blending the wrist set with lead forearm rotation and shoulder turn.  My biggest struggle with my swing is rolling the forearms early.  I think one of my main issues has been thinking about the backswing and wrist set in too much of a "2D" fashion, if that makes sense.  It's occurred to me that my understanding of the vertical wrist set has been wrong, and it has led me to roll my forearms to get my hands to a position where vertical only means "up" in a 2D way, as opposed to vertical meaning "up and back towards me".  When I do it the wrong way, the clubhead is inside my hands at waist-high, but it's outside them if I do it correctly.

Apologies if this was rambling or off-topic, but I've been thinking about the clubhead in relation to the hands and the wrist set a lot recently.
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#8 fillwelix

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:39 PM

Sounds a lot like Ryan Moore
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#9 PJ1120

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:46 PM

Funny....just had a lesson yesterday and this is exactly what he had me working on. I have a tendency to whip the club inside and get really laid off off at the top. He wanted me to keep the triangle intact early and then go vertical. Pushing down on my left thumb with my right palm was something he wanted me to try. Right arm higher than left, hands in, and club head out. Haven't taken it to the course yet. Really hard to get the brain focused on hands in and club head out.......like rubbing your tummy and patting your forehead.

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#10 Saltire

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:48 PM

Thanks for the inputs, I think I have a picture of what he means now. Player was pretty adamant that this was the way to go!


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#11 Yff Theos

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:02 PM

 Saltire, on 09 November 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

 Yff Theos, on 09 November 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

Different swings for differently aged bodies. When he was 30 he was laid-off and his takeaway was not as he describes now.

Correct, he did say it had taken him 72 years to learn the correct backswing movement.

It is only his actual opinion. When he was young he mimicked Hogan and Snead. I can see all-time greats had sometimes inside takeaway, no one of them had it considerably outside one.

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#12 moehogan

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:18 PM

Here's a simple but effective way to get it done ... in the takeaway rotate your right forearm counterclockwise (CCW) against the left forearm trying to rotate clockwise (CW) as you move your hands inside.  This will produce a neutral condition keeping the clubhead outside the hands and the clubface square to the arc.  These aren't massive torques, but rather just enough pressure to accomplish the goal.

As the right arm begins to fold in the 2nd half of the BS, let those windings relax or dissipate and in transition reverse them, right CW, left CCW.  Works like a charm!

79afb2678f809812089b31f1fcd5c1de_zps4421ab59.jpg

Edited by moehogan, 09 November 2017 - 02:24 PM.


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#13 TTGolf77

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:19 PM

 Yff Theos, on 09 November 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

Different swings for differently aged bodies. When he was 30 he was laid-off and his takeaway was not as he describes now.

Thereís nothing about his age that makes his new takeaway better. Thereís lots of of young pros using the club outside the hands takeaway.

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#14 iteachgolf

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:30 PM

They are both working in.  The clubhead is staying outside the hands until parallel to the ground.   Clubhead isnít working out.

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#15 Reidman

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:35 PM

Does this describe the takeaway mentioned above?

https://www.golfdige...ir-4-fast-fixes

Video version

https://www.youtube....h?v=nLcxe5XfTqs

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#16 PJ1120

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:37 PM

 iteachgolf, on 09 November 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

They are both working in.  The clubhead is staying outside the hands until parallel to the ground.   Clubhead isn't working out.

So at P2 is the club head on the toe line or outside of it?

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#17 glk

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:41 PM

Been posted lots of times here - from FWP



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#18 iteachgolf

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:46 PM

 PJ1120, on 09 November 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 09 November 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

They are both working in.  The clubhead is staying outside the hands until parallel to the ground.   Clubhead isn't working out.

So at P2 is the club head on the toe line or outside of it?

Clubhead might be.  It just means itís a bit outside hands.  

Like this
https://instagram.com/p/BZwDIX4FNqW/

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#19 PJ1120

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:46 PM

 glk, on 09 November 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Been posted lots of times here - from FWP



Why can't I see these attachments? There is an X in the upper left corner.

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#20 BottleCap

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 06:11 PM

Maybe it's you're workplace internet policy, i can't look at instagram or twitter, I can see Youtube, but I can't hear Youtube.

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#21 eddie3392

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:18 AM

Is everyone using their dominant side or shoulders to start the takeaway? Is there a feel that will help accomplish this type of takeaway?

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#22 HitEmTrue

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:40 PM

Michael talks about it within the first minute.

< edit >
Oops, didn't see that this had already been posted in the thread.

Edited by HitEmTrue, 14 November 2017 - 06:46 PM.


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#23 getitdaily

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:28 PM

Basically kuchar's takeaway

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#24 aggiegolfer21

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 11:43 AM

Maintaining the triangle is one way of putting it.  "Hands go in club goes out" is just a way of explainig how to keep the club in front of your chest.  To find the perfect position for when the club is parallel to the ground in the backswing, stand straight up with your club out in front of you. Rotate your shoulders 90 degrees to the right, allowing the club to travel with you, then bend forward from the hips into the posture you would take for your swing.  If done correctly, the club face should be pointed a little towards the ground (the angle of the leading edge should match your spine angle) and neither your hands nor the club head should be behind your chest.

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#25 adogg18

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 11:59 AM

 glk, on 09 November 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Been posted lots of times here - from FWP



Yeap, that's my problem. My hands leave the body on the take away, then as he said in the video, that results in an off plane laid off swing.

I plan to work on this through the winter.


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#26 jpcortese

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 08:43 AM

 moehogan, on 09 November 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Here's a simple but effective way to get it done ... in the takeaway rotate your right forearm counterclockwise (CCW) against the left forearm trying to rotate clockwise (CW) as you move your hands inside.  This will produce a neutral condition keeping the clubhead outside the hands and the clubface square to the arc.  These aren't massive torques, but rather just enough pressure to accomplish the goal.

As the right arm begins to fold in the 2nd half of the BS, let those windings relax or dissipate and in transition reverse them, right CW, left CCW.  Works like a charm!

79afb2678f809812089b31f1fcd5c1de_zps4421ab59.jpg


I have a problem of taking the club far inside in the back swing with too open of a club face and my pro told me that to keep the club head outside the hands I should focus on feeling that I am taking the club head back heel first in the back swing.  I have to rotate my forearms counterclockwise to do this.  Is that basically what you are saying?  In doing so I had to neutralize my grip to keep from hitting big hooks cause the club face was closed and my left wrist was bowed.

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#27 moehogan

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 10:30 AM

 jpcortese, on 17 November 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

 moehogan, on 09 November 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Here's a simple but effective way to get it done ... in the takeaway rotate your right forearm counterclockwise (CCW) against the left forearm trying to rotate clockwise (CW) as you move your hands inside.  This will produce a neutral condition keeping the clubhead outside the hands and the clubface square to the arc.  These aren't massive torques, but rather just enough pressure to accomplish the goal.

As the right arm begins to fold in the 2nd half of the BS, let those windings relax or dissipate and in transition reverse them, right CW, left CCW.  Works like a charm!

79afb2678f809812089b31f1fcd5c1de_zps4421ab59.jpg


I have a problem of taking the club far inside in the back swing with too open of a club face and my pro told me that to keep the club head outside the hands I should focus on feeling that I am taking the club head back heel first in the back swing.  I have to rotate my forearms counterclockwise to do this.  Is that basically what you are saying?  In doing so I had to neutralize my grip to keep from hitting big hooks cause the club face was closed and my left wrist was bowed.
Nope, that actually would be more of an Abe Mitchell type move with both forearms rotating the same direction in the takeaway closing the clubface.  What I'm calling out is more of a Hoganesque move where the forearms are wound in OPPOSITE directions in the takeaway (left-CW, right-CCW) keeping the clubface SQUARE to the clubhead path in the takeaway.  Those opposing torques or pressures are relaxed as the right arm starts to fold in the 2nd part of the BS allowing the clubface to open.

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#28 Saltire

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 06:22 PM

To me this feels like I'm taking the club back with a very closed clubface? Would this be a correct feeling?

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#29 wmblake2000

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 07:17 PM

 iteachgolf, on 09 November 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

 PJ1120, on 09 November 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

 iteachgolf, on 09 November 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

They are both working in.  The clubhead is staying outside the hands until parallel to the ground.   Clubhead isn't working out.

So at P2 is the club head on the toe line or outside of it?

Clubhead might be.  It just means it's a bit outside hands.  

Like this
https://instagram.com/p/BZwDIX4FNqW/

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#30 zoots

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 12:24 AM

From the man himself

https://youtu.be/wZkxmr2wMyU?t=14m30s


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