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Justin Thomasí swing


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#31 sb944

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 03:09 PM

Post the video, it's very likely you are doing something wrong well before this,  and the body is compensating.


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#32 adogg18

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 08:13 PM

View PostTTGolf77, on 10 November 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

View Postadogg18, on 10 November 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

Here's an example of how bad my early extension was.  The pic in the middle is me not really working on anything other than strengthening my grip a little than before.  The pic on the right is me trying to maintain spine angle and keeping my butt on my golf bag just 7 days ago.  Before that, I've always looked like the pic in the middle I think.

I think there's still hope for me.  I'll see if I can make some improvements this afternoon after the tips I've received here.  I'll probably keep my butt off the bag by a couple inches and try to touch it at impact while keeping my head on the other wall like you see JT doing so beautifully in the pic on the left.

Also, I drew 3 horizontal lines for JT.  The top line is address, middle line is at the top of his swing, and bottom line is impact.  For me, my head is the same at the top as it is at address.  Then I do all of my head dropping on the downswing.

Justin Thompson is getting into extension thru impact and you are not. You can see it in his lower back compared to yours and how his left leg is straighter than yours. If you just focus on keeping your head down the problem is just going to get worse.

It's a chain reaction that starts from pushing off the ground with the left leg which straightens the back and then the arms extend in proper sequence. You aren't pushing off with the left leg correctly which leads to a back that's still in flexion so the arms have to straighten too much to get to the ball. Justin looks like he's keeping his head down because he's extending and turning properly.

Thanks for posting.  I hit some balls today and REALLY tried my hardest to keep my butt back.  All that resulted was me dropping my head down even more and stressing my lower back out.  This is definitely not a swing I want to continue trying.  haha

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#33 adogg18

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 08:15 PM

Here is today's range session.  All that's happening is my back is contorting and my head is dropping even more.  I'm just trying to keep my butt back.

Attached Thumbnails

  • JT-vs-Me-2016-and-2017-and-today.jpg


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#34 adogg18

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 08:17 PM

View Postsb944, on 10 November 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Post the video, it's very likely you are doing something wrong well before this,  and the body is compensating.

I'm sure that is the case.  I'll see if I can post a slow motion video within the next day or two.  Slow internet is going to take me a while to upload to YT.

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#35 Santiago Golf

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 09:08 PM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 09 November 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

View PostShipwreck, on 09 November 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

View Postslantsflood, on 09 November 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Shipwreck, do you think it gives you a feeling of more time during your transition?

I‚Äôve never really thought about it but it just might. My swing isn‚Äôt aggressive and fast and my tempo is definitely something more in line with Steve Stricker and not Rors. But with so much instruction now a days telling you to keep that right arm closer to your body, I‚Äôve just never had good results with it. I think maybe I can attribute most of it to a the Tiger Woods book ‚ÄúGolf My Way‚ÄĚ because he talks about a wide swing and I always have tried to emulate that. JTs swing is just poetry in motion, although his aggressive right foot on the downswing is something I don‚Äôt think I can ever copy.

I was able to watch JT up close and personal (thats the two of us in my profile pic) a couple months ago at a clinic and poetry in motion is just how I describe it to anyone who would ask.

Personally, I try to emulate the position in pic below that I took at the event. Specifically how long JT keeps his head down at and after impact:

Posted Image

he isn't trying to keep his head down, its a natural position. If he was trying to keep his down, he wouldnt rotate as well as he does

Edited by Santiago Golf, 10 November 2017 - 09:39 PM.

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#36 Swisstrader98

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 09:55 PM

View PostSantiago Golf, on 10 November 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

View PostSwisstrader98, on 09 November 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

View PostShipwreck, on 09 November 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

View Postslantsflood, on 09 November 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Shipwreck, do you think it gives you a feeling of more time during your transition?

I‚€™ve never really thought about it but it just might. My swing isn‚€™t aggressive and fast and my tempo is definitely something more in line with Steve Stricker and not Rors. But with so much instruction now a days telling you to keep that right arm closer to your body, I‚€™ve just never had good results with it. I think maybe I can attribute most of it to a the Tiger Woods book ‚€œGolf My Way‚€ because he talks about a wide swing and I always have tried to emulate that. JTs swing is just poetry in motion, although his aggressive right foot on the downswing is something I don‚€™t think I can ever copy.

I was able to watch JT up close and personal (thats the two of us in my profile pic) a couple months ago at a clinic and poetry in motion is just how I describe it to anyone who would ask.

Personally, I try to emulate the position in pic below that I took at the event. Specifically how long JT keeps his head down at and after impact:

Posted Image

he isn't trying to keep his head down, its a natural position. If he was trying to keep his down, he wouldnt rotate as well as he does

I always wondered about that. Head down a conscious thought or just a natural part of swing.

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#37 Santiago Golf

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 10:06 PM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 10 November 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

View PostSantiago Golf, on 10 November 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

View PostSwisstrader98, on 09 November 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

View PostShipwreck, on 09 November 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

View Postslantsflood, on 09 November 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Shipwreck, do you think it gives you a feeling of more time during your transition?

I’ve never really thought about it but it just might. My swing isn’t aggressive and fast and my tempo is definitely something more in line with Steve Stricker and not Rors. But with so much instruction now a days telling you to keep that right arm closer to your body, I’ve just never had good results with it. I think maybe I can attribute most of it to a the Tiger Woods book “Golf My Way” because he talks about a wide swing and I always have tried to emulate that. JTs swing is just poetry in motion, although his aggressive right foot on the downswing is something I don’t think I can ever copy.

I was able to watch JT up close and personal (thats the two of us in my profile pic) a couple months ago at a clinic and poetry in motion is just how I describe it to anyone who would ask.

Personally, I try to emulate the position in pic below that I took at the event. Specifically how long JT keeps his head down at and after impact:

Posted Image

he isn't trying to keep his head down, its a natural position. If he was trying to keep his down, he wouldnt rotate as well as he does

I always wondered about that. Head down a conscious thought or just a natural part of swing.

Try to keep your head still and move your body. Allow your head to move freely and move your body. Which one allows for more movement? option 2. What I tell most golfers is to not to try to keep it still and allow it move; then I explain that Im not telling them to move their head at all, but it does its okay, it if doesn't move its okay, so long as they are not trying to keep it still.

This concept is a day in and day out constant struggle for most golfers to understand. Sometimes it can become an argument, not often but it does.
Driver: Taylormade M2 '17 10.5*; Project X Hazardus Black 6.5 (looking to get a GD Tour AD in the Future)

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Length and Lie: -1/4 inch, 2* flat
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#38 b_f_c_99

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 10:21 PM

Your wasting your time trying to copy a swing like this , or really anybody else’s swing.  What JT does is natural to him,  he’s an outlier, this would be like trying to copy some nfl player thinking If I can just do this certain thing like having a 40 inch vertical leap I could play receiver in the nfl.

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#39 TTGolf77

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 11:03 PM

View Postb_f_c_99, on 10 November 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

Your wasting your time trying to copy a swing like this , or really anybody elseís swing.  What JT does is natural to him,  heís an outlier, this would be like trying to copy some nfl player thinking If I can just do this certain thing like having a 40 inch vertical leap I could play receiver in the nfl.

This is just nonsense. There is nothing natural about pro golferís swings they have just been coached since they were small children. If you wanted to increase your vertical leap like your example you would still copy the form of the an nfl player who was good at it even if you couldnít match their results.

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#40 b_f_c_99

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:18 AM

Hope the OP has the flexibility to survive this.


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#41 adogg18

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:38 AM

I know I won't be able to copy his swing exactly. I'm just using it to get some basics down.

Most people would hurt themselves trying things that pros do.

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#42 Nard_S

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 09:02 AM

I watched a video break down and his spine goes 5* towards target on back swing (something many pros do and many ams do not), then from there his tilt goes like 10*-12* in the opposite away from target with abundant left side extension.His swing speed is really not super high but the smash factor is spot on and he hits up with the Driver and gets more carry and roll than most for the velocity. Great balance, great legs is needed in this. His use of "ground forces" is big time.

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#43 Swisstrader98

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 09:05 AM

View PostNard_S, on 11 November 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

I watched a video break down and his spine goes 5* towards target on back swing (something many pros do and many ams do not), then from there his tilt goes like 10*-12* in the opposite away from target with abundant left side extension.His swing speed is really not super high but the smash factor is spot on and he hits up with the Driver and gets more carry and roll than most for the velocity. Great balance, great legs is needed in this. His use of "ground forces" is big time.

I find this whole bit about spine angle very intriguing. Do you have the video that you can post here?

Thanks

Edit: just found It. Clay Ballard video:

https://topspeedgolf...-ball-striking/

Edited by Swisstrader98, 11 November 2017 - 11:05 AM.


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#44 Nard_S

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 09:46 AM

View PostSwisstrader98, on 11 November 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

View PostNard_S, on 11 November 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

I watched a video break down and his spine goes 5* towards target on back swing (something many pros do and many ams do not), then from there his tilt goes like 10*-12* in the opposite away from target with abundant left side extension.His swing speed is really not super high but the smash factor is spot on and he hits up with the Driver and gets more carry and roll than most for the velocity. Great balance, great legs is needed in this. His use of "ground forces" is big time.

I find this whole bit about spine angle very intriguing. Do you have the video that you can post here?

Thanks

https://www.youtube....h?v=fovTw4WU28c

Amazing thing is how lower body goes target bound and upper goes opposite from P5 to impact. Interesting too his head is rock steady to P5 then radially rotates back & down from there. Not sure mortals can replicate, or less than young back survives follow thru. Again great legs and flexibility.. Flattens shaft plane on DS well too.

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#45 Billy Baroo

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 10:06 AM

View Postadogg18, on 10 November 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Here is today's range session.  All that's happening is my back is contorting and my head is dropping even more.  I'm just trying to keep my butt back.

Here’s a simple thought for you. Pull the left leg backwards on the downswing. Refer to JT and also to the Previous DJ photo and look at the angle of their left leg from Down The Line. Your’s is vertical their’s is angled backwards.The left hip should flex starting down so it’s going to feel like you are stretching your hamstring. You can put that golf bag behind you once again, but this time on the downswing make sure that you hit it only with your left butt cheek. That’ll get you to open up properly.

Maybe.....Yessir!

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#46 adogg18

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:56 AM

View PostBilly Baroo, on 11 November 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

View Postadogg18, on 10 November 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Here is today's range session.  All that's happening is my back is contorting and my head is dropping even more.  I'm just trying to keep my butt back.

Hereís a simple thought for you. Pull the left leg backwards on the downswing. Refer to JT and also to the Previous DJ photo and look at the angle of their left leg from Down The Line. Yourís is vertical theirís is angled backwards.The left hip should flex starting down so itís going to feel like you are stretching your hamstring. You can put that golf bag behind you once again, but this time on the downswing make sure that you hit it only with your left butt cheek. Thatíll get you to open up properly.

Thank you. That makes sense. I will give that a shot.

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#47 adogg18

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:13 AM

View PostNard_S, on 11 November 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

View PostSwisstrader98, on 11 November 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

View PostNard_S, on 11 November 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

I watched a video break down and his spine goes 5* towards target on back swing (something many pros do and many ams do not), then from there his tilt goes like 10*-12* in the opposite away from target with abundant left side extension.His swing speed is really not super high but the smash factor is spot on and he hits up with the Driver and gets more carry and roll than most for the velocity. Great balance, great legs is needed in this. His use of "ground forces" is big time.

I find this whole bit about spine angle very intriguing. Do you have the video that you can post here?

Thanks

https://www.youtube....h?v=fovTw4WU28c

Amazing thing is how lower body goes target bound and upper goes opposite from P5 to impact. Interesting too his head is rock steady to P5 then radially rotates back & down from there. Not sure mortals can replicate, or less than young back survives follow thru. Again great legs and flexibility.. Flattens shaft plane on DS well too.

Nice video! My problem is both my upper and lower body are on my left side at impact. In fact, I think they are way too much on the left side. My left hip bone is past the left side of my left foot at impact. JT's is still inside his left foot and his upper body is hanging back.

I tried doing this on the range Saturday, but it felt like I still have 75% of my weight on my right toes after impact and my entire body just fell back.

But thanks again for posting that video. Good analysis.

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#48 SARF

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:26 AM

Have you tried a feeling of throwing a frisby with your left hand to get your arm off your chest a little earlier and allow your body to follow the rotation?

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#49 adogg18

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:40 AM

View PostSARF, on 12 November 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

Have you tried a feeling of throwing a frisby with your left hand to get your arm off your chest a little earlier and allow your body to follow the rotation?

No I haven't. But Martin Chuck talks about that in some of his videos. And when I was hitting balls on the range Sat, a fellow golfer was telling me to get my left arm off my chest and chin a little. It is really preventing me from having more SS.

My biggest miss my entire life is a straight left pull. So I guess I'm scared of letting my arms leave my body and perhaps coming over the top.

But these video analysis' have really been helpful. There's a lot I don't understand about the swing.

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#50 SARF

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:48 AM

Worth a try. Using that analogy should help use the left arm as a unit rather than flipping with the wrist and give you a lot more speed. If you haven't got a frisby to throw, try with a head cover, you'll notice you'll get more distance. Monte uses this idea also.


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#51 fjk

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:43 PM

View Postadogg18, on 10 November 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Here is today's range session.  All that's happening is my back is contorting and my head is dropping even more.  I'm just trying to keep my butt back.

I don't think you can just keep your butt back without the matching part. What your intent is to drive the swing is very different than JT. Your body will to some degree act to support what you are trying to do. Your arms and delivery into the ball are totally different than his... Can't just show impact.

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#52 adogg18

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:16 PM

Here's a video of my latest range session:



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#53 ayan

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:18 PM

View Postadogg18, on 13 November 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

Here's a video of my latest range session:



I think you could try a somewhat different set up and see if that helps you with what you're trying to achieve.  In my opinion: (1) you stand very far away from the ball for an iron shot, with too much forward bend, (2) your hands appear to move away from you during the take away, and (3) you over rotate your left arm, opening the club face a lot by the time you get to the top (toe is pointing almost straight down).  At the top, the butt end of the club is pointing well "north" of the target line, and that will be the direction in which you will tend to start the butt end down on the downswing.  From there, it's hard to not get steep and over the top on the downswing.

Edited by ayan, 13 November 2017 - 02:19 PM.

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#54 Nard_S

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:37 PM

FWIW: Something I struggle with and kind see in yours:

Lot of left side stretch in back swing, looks like you flatten shoulder plane, forcing an OTT move or at best a stuck/flippy thing. More right side stretch, more left shoulder down., more "chest at the ball".

Think your over bent/hands away setup maybe a compensation for that or vice versa. Jim Waldron and Monte speak to the shoulder girdle switch and shoulder plane well.

If through out swing, can keep shoulder plane more perpendicular to spine angle, you can have hands more over feet at setup. Might allow for a true shallowing on down swing. This is not easy stuff to fix and I'm not an expert but more a 'been there, done/ do it' guy, so your mileage may well vary on what is not a terrible swing to work with.

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#55 adogg18

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:36 PM

View Postayan, on 13 November 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

View Postadogg18, on 13 November 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

Here's a video of my latest range session:


I think you could try a somewhat different set up and see if that helps you with what you're trying to achieve.  In my opinion: (1) you stand very far away from the ball for an iron shot, with too much forward bend, (2) your hands appear to move away from you during the take away, and (3) you over rotate your left arm, opening the club face a lot by the time you get to the top (toe is pointing almost straight down).  At the top, the butt end of the club is pointing well "north" of the target line, and that will be the direction in which you will tend to start the butt end down on the downswing.  From there, it's hard to not get steep and over the top on the downswing.

I appreciate it.  And I know about my take away.  It's something I'm slowly trying to work on.  It's just hard to swing with 5 different swing thoughts at once.  haha

And my club is laid off at the top.  It's something the pro mentioned on my last lesson that I can work on.  But he instead focused on getting me to keep my hands lower at impact.

View PostNard_S, on 13 November 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

FWIW: Something I struggle with and kind see in yours:

Lot of left side stretch in back swing, looks like you flatten shoulder plane, forcing an OTT move or at best a stuck/flippy thing. More right side stretch, more left shoulder down., more "chest at the ball".

Think your over bent/hands away setup maybe a compensation for that or vice versa. Jim Waldron and Monte speak to the shoulder girdle switch and shoulder plane well.

If through out swing, can keep shoulder plane more perpendicular to spine angle, you can have hands more over feet at setup. Might allow for a true shallowing on down swing. This is not easy stuff to fix and I'm not an expert but more a 'been there, done/ do it' guy, so your mileage may well vary on what is not a terrible swing to work with.

Thanks.  I'm trying to narrow it down to one swing thought at a time.  I think I'm going to try to concentrate on getting that left hip back at impact instead of square like it was at address.  I like the thought that was mentioned earlier about feeling the left hamstring stretch in the downswing.


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#56 ayan

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 04:55 PM

View Postadogg18, on 14 November 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

I appreciate it.  And I know about my take away.  It's something I'm slowly trying to work on.  It's just hard to swing with 5 different swing thoughts at once.  haha

And my club is laid off at the top.  It's something the pro mentioned on my last lesson that I can work on.  But he instead focused on getting me to keep my hands lower at impact.


A philosophical question: have you tried to reverse engineer your swing?  By which I mean put yourself in what you think would be a good impact position (i.e., open hips, opening shoulders, good shaft lean, hands like your instructor mentioned, etc.).  From there back up to P6 and get a feel for what it takes for you to get from that P6 to P7 in a natural way.  It shouldn't be much, just turning and releasing the club.  Then you need to find out what kind of P5 allows you to pass through that P6 "instant in time" and get to the impact position you want. All the way back.  You may find that the top of your backswing needs to be a certain way to allow you to naturally get to where you want to get at impact.  I'm sure there are a lot of P4s that are valid to get to an equally efficient P7, but the key is which one makes it easiest for you to do it without much thought.  You then back up from P4, etc., and map out the address position and takeway routine that gets you to the top the way your body likes it.  There is nothing original in what I am saying, I know Bradley Hughes has indicated he teaches this way, and GGSwintips has said many times that he learned to play golf by starting at P7, backing up to P6 and then turning again to hit the ball.  I would do a lot of impact drills so that you can ingrain what you want your impact to feel like, and then rewind one bit at a time.  Mind you, I know a lot of the instructors here have mentioned working backwards is kind of.. backwards.  As a student, all I can say is that I can be given 1,000 feels (e.g., hands more out, weight left, head down, head up, etc.) and unless I have a complete task as an objective (in this case, the task would be to get to that P7 I want and that I can recognize because I've experienced it before), I will probably get lost along the way...  I will never get there just by being given "directions" unless I have a feel for what the destination will look like.  Hope this helps.
Driver -  Tour Edge Exotics E8 (8.5 - 12°) w/ Mitsubishi Bassara E-Series 45 Shaft
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Hybrids - Adams New Idea 3H (19°) and 4H (22°) w/ Mitsubishi Bassara Eagle Series 65 Shaft
Irons -   Taylor Made Speedblade 4i - 9i
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#57 adogg18

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:24 PM

View Postayan, on 14 November 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

View Postadogg18, on 14 November 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

I appreciate it.  And I know about my take away.  It's something I'm slowly trying to work on.  It's just hard to swing with 5 different swing thoughts at once.  haha

And my club is laid off at the top.  It's something the pro mentioned on my last lesson that I can work on.  But he instead focused on getting me to keep my hands lower at impact.


A philosophical question: have you tried to reverse engineer your swing?  By which I mean put yourself in what you think would be a good impact position (i.e., open hips, opening shoulders, good shaft lean, hands like your instructor mentioned, etc.).  From there back up to P6 and get a feel for what it takes for you to get from that P6 to P7 in a natural way.  It shouldn't be much, just turning and releasing the club.  Then you need to find out what kind of P5 allows you to pass through that P6 "instant in time" and get to the impact position you want. All the way back.  You may find that the top of your backswing needs to be a certain way to allow you to naturally get to where you want to get at impact.  I'm sure there are a lot of P4s that are valid to get to an equally efficient P7, but the key is which one makes it easiest for you to do it without much thought.  You then back up from P4, etc., and map out the address position and takeway routine that gets you to the top the way your body likes it.  There is nothing original in what I am saying, I know Bradley Hughes has indicated he teaches this way, and GGSwintips has said many times that he learned to play golf by starting at P7, backing up to P6 and then turning again to hit the ball.  I would do a lot of impact drills so that you can ingrain what you want your impact to feel like, and then rewind one bit at a time.  Mind you, I know a lot of the instructors here have mentioned working backwards is kind of.. backwards.  As a student, all I can say is that I can be given 1,000 feels (e.g., hands more out, weight left, head down, head up, etc.) and unless I have a complete task as an objective (in this case, the task would be to get to that P7 I want and that I can recognize because I've experienced it before), I will probably get lost along the way...  I will never get there just by being given "directions" unless I have a feel for what the destination will look like.  Hope this helps.

Thanks.  I agree that I don't learn well by simply trying to do what my instructor tells me.  I have to know the big picture and how it's going to get me to the impact position that I need.  That's why I think I need an instruction that can record my swing and show me.

And yes, I've tried to reverse engineer my swing by trying to do the impact position that I think is right in slow motion.  But when I do a full swing at normal speed, I THINK I'm still doing it.  But I have someone watch me and I usually find out that I'm a long ways away from where I want to be.

Also, I just ordered a DST Compressor to see if it can help me get that forward shaft lean that I'm trying so hard to achieve.

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