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Dialing Back the Ball


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#121 new2g0lf

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:13 PM

View PostShilgy, on 10 November 2017 - 11:19 PM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 10 November 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

View Postsoregongolfer, on 10 November 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

View Postcoachemup, on 09 November 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Chippa13

I said I was done with this thread, but you have made me enter it since you mentioned baseball and that is what I did for a career.  Players must use wooden bats in professional baseball.  They don't have any other choice.  And pitchers must throw the same ball (Rawlings and you will not see any other league anywhere use a Rawlings baseball). They can't throw out the official MLB supplied ball and bring out a Diamond D1 Pro (as an example).  

And as far as paying more for the quality of course, that is wrong as well.  I have played courses in pristine shap that cost $30 a round and then played courses that cost $250 a round that I wouldn't even practice my own game on.

Ok, that is all :)

Baseball is all about tradition and their statistics.  That's why they still have wood bats.  A big allure to baseball is comparing today's players to the past.  That would be hard to do if they switched to aluminum bats even though aluminum bats can be tuned to have the same exit speeds of wood bats.

Of course, today's wood bats are not the same as they were 50 years ago.  Today, they have more options with regards to weight distribution and even the type of wood used.  Many players use maple.  In the past only ash was used.
The reason MLB has not gone to aluminum bats is safety.  If they cared about records, they wouldn't allow stadiums to bring in their walls, wouldn't have allowed steroid abuse for 5+ years and wouldn't have lowered the pitching mounds.  

Quote

The barrels are bigger, and because they are lighter, they can be swung faster than a wooden bat." In addition, the hardness and resilience of aluminum can result in much greater speeds when the ball comes off the bat. ... The primary reason that wooden bats are required in the pros is due to this performance difference.
The ped era lasted a lot longer than 5 years.
Yes, I was being kind given there was a 5 year period where MLB was like a home run derby.

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#122 Hubijerk

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:02 PM

View Postnew2g0lf, on 12 November 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

View PostHubijerk, on 11 November 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

View Postcoachemup, on 10 November 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Soregongolfer,

Can you please provide us with the study that shows aluminum bats can be tuned so exit speeds are equal to or slower than wood bats?

Even the new BBCOR bats still show roughly a +4-6 mph increase in exit velocity and those are sweetspot contacts.  I can only imagine handle or cap shots are probably +8-10 compared to wood.

If your post is indeed correct (and I am not doubting you, just wanting to see the study) I need to contact my people and find out other rationals for why wooden bats are still being used.

I know, I know this is topic.  My apologies!  I just like to learn new things

So back on topic, Let's not roll the ball back but instead make a tournament ball.  I can live with that :)

I don't know about stats and science, but I do know I have played a lot of baseball, finished at 3rd base in college and played off season wooden bat leagues and honestly I'm surprised more kids haven't been hurt... pitchers, and 3rd basemen playing up.. Maybe on paper the speeds are 5-8 mph faster but it sure feels a lot faster than that when a line drive is coming at you're head off a pressurized aluminum 2piece bat...

A side note I used to practice with an old rawlings metal bat.. I'm sure it was aluminum but it looked and felt like steel... I think it must have been the 1st metal bat ever.  The handle was almost as thick as the barrel and it was so heavy.  It was a workout just taking BP with that thing.

It depends on when you played, BBCOR is relatively new (last five years) and the old aluminum bats were much faster than wood.

Oh yeah, way more than 5 years, 99-2002 were my college years
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#123 new2g0lf

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:58 PM

View PostHubijerk, on 12 November 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 12 November 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

View PostHubijerk, on 11 November 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

View Postcoachemup, on 10 November 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Soregongolfer,

Can you please provide us with the study that shows aluminum bats can be tuned so exit speeds are equal to or slower than wood bats?

Even the new BBCOR bats still show roughly a +4-6 mph increase in exit velocity and those are sweetspot contacts.  I can only imagine handle or cap shots are probably +8-10 compared to wood.

If your post is indeed correct (and I am not doubting you, just wanting to see the study) I need to contact my people and find out other rationals for why wooden bats are still being used.

I know, I know this is topic.  My apologies!  I just like to learn new things

So back on topic, Let's not roll the ball back but instead make a tournament ball.  I can live with that :)

I don't know about stats and science, but I do know I have played a lot of baseball, finished at 3rd base in college and played off season wooden bat leagues and honestly I'm surprised more kids haven't been hurt... pitchers, and 3rd basemen playing up.. Maybe on paper the speeds are 5-8 mph faster but it sure feels a lot faster than that when a line drive is coming at you're head off a pressurized aluminum 2piece bat...

A side note I used to practice with an old rawlings metal bat.. I'm sure it was aluminum but it looked and felt like steel... I think it must have been the 1st metal bat ever.  The handle was almost as thick as the barrel and it was so heavy.  It was a workout just taking BP with that thing.

It depends on when you played, BBCOR is relatively new (last five years) and the old aluminum bats were much faster than wood.

Oh yeah, way more than 5 years, 99-2002 were my college years
Yeah, you were putting your life at risk playing 3rd base.  I used to play 3rd base in modified pitch softball and those 3 wall bats were like rocket launchers with a softball can't imagine what it was like with a hardball.
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#124 playa

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:03 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 09 November 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

You gotta feel for Tiger. He grew up idolizing Jack Nicklaus and basically dreaming of doing everything that Jack did except doing it better.

Think about it. By the time Jack had left the major-championship scene the top players were guys like Davis Love III and Freddie Couples. Those guys played a game very hard to distinguish from the game Jack played.

Jack couldn't say of that generation as Bobby Jones said of Jack that they played "a game with which he was not familiar".  But when Tiger came along, that's exactly what Jack said. Tiger had an ability to overpower a golf course (not to mention an other-worldly short game that Jack never had need to develop) beyond anything Jack could have done in his prime and Jack admired him for it.

But now Tiger's career has wound down and the PGA Tour landscape isn't filled by guys doing basically what Tiger did. The entire game has transformed over the course of Tiger's 20's and 30's to the point where a 40-year-old Tiger sees NOBODY out there being DL III or Freddie to his Jack. The very next generation after Tiger has transformed the entire way the game is played.

So Tiger is frustrated. He wanted to slide gracefully into middle age seeing a couple generations of players try and match what he did IN THE SAME WAY HE DID IT. But they skipped right over that interim. Now it's not a single once-in-a-lifetime Tiger emerging but entire generations of golfers already playing the next evolution of the game.

He got ripped off.

P.S. There is one compensation. I don't think Tiger will live long enough to see his 14 major championships equaled, much less anyone pass him and overtake Jack. It's the same factor, the sheer number of prodigiously talented, fearless "Tigers" out there stealing majors from each other. It was remarkable the way Tiger dominated the golf landscape for 15 years or so. Now that the game is so much deeper (and thoroughly world-wide) Tiger's remarkable dominance is probably just not possible.

P.P.S. Not to mention that the modern game wears out bodies and putting stroke nerves at a meat-grinder pace. As Tiger himself has found out, the power required in today's game chews up bodies and spits them out on an accelerated time scale.
I agree with most of this but respectfully disagree that the game is that much deeper now or that Tiger wouldn't dominate if he came along now. When Tiger arrived hof certainties Els and Phil were in the start of their peak years, but Tiger destroyed them (especially Els). Fred and DL3 were still at their peak, and Sergio bad Scott had hit the scene by the time Tiger really got going. I honestly think the top bracket of golfers Tiger dominated were every bit as talented as Day, DJ, Rory, Spieth etc. Maybe the second tier players now are better, but that's not relevant to Tiger as he was so far ahead of those guys in his days. If Tiger hit the scene right now he would dominate just like he did in his day. Look at his scoring and his records. You can't just ignore them based on a "fields now are stronger" argument that isn't really backed up by measureable statistics.

Edited by playa, 14 November 2017 - 02:59 PM.


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#125 Pomps

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:04 AM

If they were to dial back the ball, what does that do for handicapping purposes? Does each set of tees have a different course and slope rating for modern ball and dialed back ball? One can say yes, but then again, there is no different rating for if I were to play with an M1 and such vs and old persimmon driver...

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#126 Shilgy

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:52 AM

View PostPomps, on 20 November 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

If they were to dial back the ball, what does that do for handicapping purposes? Does each set of tees have a different course and slope rating for modern ball and dialed back ball? One can say yes, but then again, there is no different rating for if I were to play with an M1 and such vs and old persimmon driver...
Good question. Perhaps some in the Rules forum would recall.  Currently the course rating is for a scratch golfer that hits it 250 off the tee.....(there is more to it but that is the start)...
I am trying to recall if in the balata days the rating was based on 250 off the tee or if they changed that.  And I am commenting on whether courses would have to be rerated based on a dialed back ball and not really on whether they would need twp ratings as you asked.
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#127 Matt J

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:03 PM

I don't understand the argument that a shorter ball would benefit certain players?

Say we tested the last gen of balatas and mimic the spin, compression, and distance and that was the standard.  Wow, that would actually change the whole industry as the pros would be much more focused on controlling spin.

Maybe they should just make the Noodle the official ball of the PGA Tour?

First question is authentic, who wins?  Ball manufacturers are obviously losers.  Course owners winners.  But, what player benefits?

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#128 NRJyzr

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:50 PM

View PostMatt J, on 20 November 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I don't understand the argument that a shorter ball would benefit certain players?

Say we tested the last gen of balatas and mimic the spin, compression, and distance and that was the standard.  Wow, that would actually change the whole industry as the pros would be much more focused on controlling spin.

Maybe they should just make the Noodle the official ball of the PGA Tour?

First question is authentic, who wins?  Ball manufacturers are obviously losers.  Course owners winners.  But, what player benefits?


Course owners would not be winners.  A significant number of people would leave the game, leaving it more dog eat dog than it is now.  We'd lose a number of them.

Ball manufacturers would either win or wind up with a draw.  A great many people would be replacing existing golf balls with new purchases, giving a bit more profit to the manufacturers.  They would also lose out on those who leave the game over such a silly move as mandating a shorter ball.

Players would be losers.  

The only real winners are the Get-Off-My-Lawn set, who would get to pretend they've "fixed" the game.

This whole discussion is somewhere between a red herring and illogic...
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#129 TheMackDaddy

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:45 PM

I came across this article in the WSJ: https://www.google.c...ules-1511106977
I think it really sums up the dilemma that the PGA tour is in, because on one hand it's fun to watch 350+ yard drives, but the additional costs of expanding these courses is huge.

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#130 Londoner

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:57 PM

They effectively extended our course about 500 yards by fertilising the fairways and making them more lush. Its still not long but if you miss our fairways you suffer. Even money on finding your ball. If you do, just getting out is your priority. We have 12 greens you cannot afford to go over. Same penalty as missing fairways.
On tour most trees are set in almost manicured areas with the trees spread out. You can swing very freely when there is next to no penalty. Very different when you CANNOT miss right or left.

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#131 new2g0lf

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:53 PM

View PostTheMackDaddy, on 20 November 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

I came across this article in the WSJ: https://www.google.c...ules-1511106977
I think it really sums up the dilemma that the PGA tour is in, because on one hand it's fun to watch 350+ yard drives, but the additional costs of expanding these courses is huge.

It's a dilemma because they want the pro's to hit 350+ yard drives.  Scores are relative to set up, we've seen short courses with narrow fairways, penal rough and windy conditions frustrate many of the top golfers and produce higher scores than courses that are much longer.  There's no need to roll back technology when most courses are being setup for long hitters to swing away.
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#132 bladehunter

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:29 PM

looks like its still being talked about ......  alot of smoke ... wonder when the fire will be visible ?

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#133 NRJyzr

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:50 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 20 November 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

looks like its still being talked about ......  alot of smoke ... wonder when the fire will be visible ?

http://www.golfwrx.c...gas-mike-davis/

I thought they couldn't screw up anything as badly as they did with the groove rule.

They proved me wrong with the anchored putting rule.  I thought that was as dumb as they could be.

They're now showing they may have the ability to be even less intelligent.  smmfh
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#134 Uhit

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:52 AM

View PostNRJyzr, on 20 November 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 20 November 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

looks like its still being talked about ......  alot of smoke ... wonder when the fire will be visible ?

http://www.golfwrx.c...gas-mike-davis/

I thought they couldn't screw up anything as badly as they did with the groove rule.

They proved me wrong with the anchored putting rule.  I thought that was as dumb as they could be.

They're now showing they may have the ability to be even less intelligent.  smmfh

Pure populism and propaganda - omitting the bunch of data that is readily available.

Arguing with no real arguments - it´s a shame! :polling:

I´m inclined to say, that this behavior of a USGA official is "horrible" for all golfers...

Edited by Uhit, 21 November 2017 - 03:54 AM.


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#135 bladehunter

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 07:03 AM

View PostUhit, on 21 November 2017 - 03:52 AM, said:

View PostNRJyzr, on 20 November 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 20 November 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

looks like its still being talked about ......  alot of smoke ... wonder when the fire will be visible ?

http://www.golfwrx.c...gas-mike-davis/

I thought they couldn't screw up anything as badly as they did with the groove rule.

They proved me wrong with the anchored putting rule.  I thought that was as dumb as they could be.

They're now showing they may have the ability to be even less intelligent.  smmfh

Pure populism and propaganda - omitting the bunch of data that is readily available.

Arguing with no real arguments - it´s a shame! :polling:

I´m inclined to say, that this behavior of a USGA official is "horrible" for all golfers...

Based on ?   I mean let's  be honest.  There is zero data ether way.  Until its tried you don't know anymore than I do.

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#136 North Butte

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 07:11 AM

For half a decade when the solid core ball plus titanium driver revolution was clearly adding 20+ yards to the driving distance on Tour almost overnight USGA steadfastly denied that there was anything different and said there was no need to change their ancient testing procedures. They were a laughingstock by the time they belatedly updated the tests to include CT for drivers and realistic clubhead speeds for the ball test.

Now with all available evidence showing that driving distance on tour has hardly changed at all for more than a decade, their man Mike Davis is shouting from the rooftops that the ball has to be rolled back.

That is USGA in a nutshell, right there.
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#137 Dayton

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:20 AM

View PostNRJyzr, on 20 November 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 20 November 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

looks like its still being talked about ......  alot of smoke ... wonder when the fire will be visible ?

http://www.golfwrx.c...gas-mike-davis/

I thought they couldn't screw up anything as badly as they did with the groove rule.

They proved me wrong with the anchored putting rule.  I thought that was as dumb as they could be.

They're now showing they may have the ability to be even less intelligent.  smmfh
As long as Mike Davis has anything to do with the USGA we should never be surprised at the level of stupidity they can achieve.

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#138 Shilgy

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 11:38 AM

http://www.golfwrx.c...ollback-debate/
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#139 vpd

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 02:08 PM

I was amazed at how angry and panic stricken Wally Ulhein, the outgoing CEO of Acushnet sounded when asked about dialing back the distance of the golf ball. His reasoning for push back was mostly non-sensical, grasping at straws and even taking a swipe at Bridgestone. There is no doubt that the Titleist golf ball franchise is under assault from multiple directions. Titleist, has the most to lose as the market leader in golf ball sales. When the likes of Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are calling for a dial back in distance for the golf ball I think everyone ought to listen. Even Ben Crenshaw and Bill Coore, arguably the most highly regarded golf architects today, believe the golf ball needs to be dialed back. You can't blame golf course developers or golf course architects for the impact of the golf ball on the game of golf and on all these great existing golf courses that were designed and built over 50 years ago.

Ulhein has very little if any credibility arguing those points. Can you imagine accusing the likes of Gil Hanse,Bill Coore,Ben Crenshaw, Tom Doak, Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus etc., etc. for lacking creativity when it comes to golf course design?? Come on.

Long term, the Titleist $4.00 golf ball is in big trouble. They will be forced to radically change their business model if they are to maintain their existing share of the market. If Costco(with their Kirkland Signature ball) decides to go full speed into the golf ball market, they will crush Titleist. And, that's with a golf ball that arguably might be as good but certainly is not better than the ProV1. And, companies like Snell, Vice and Cut will be able to take small slices of the market, very similar to how craft beers have slowly eroded the market share of the companies like Inbev and Molson-Coors that sells Budweiser etc.

Fila and their investors were smart to take Acushnet public when they did. Challenging times ahead for Acushnet. They will eventually have to deal head on with the likes of Amazon, Costco and some of the small golf ball companies whose golf balls are terrific for the average golfer at less than half the price. Who cares if you don't play the same golf ball as Dustin Johnson or Jordan Spieth. Do you really believe the ProV1 ball lowers the handicap of the average golfer?? If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Don't get me wrong, Titleist products are of excellent quality. Their shoes and golf clubs are great! I probably own 8 pair of Footjoys. Great quality and great value. But, their golf ball, although as good as any on the market, is way overpriced.

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#140 Uhit

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:00 PM

View Postvpd, on 21 November 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

I was amazed at how angry and panic stricken Wally Ulhein, the outgoing CEO of Acushnet sounded when asked about dialing back the distance of the golf ball. His reasoning for push back was mostly non-sensical, grasping at straws and even taking a swipe at Bridgestone. There is no doubt that the Titleist golf ball franchise is under assault from multiple directions. Titleist, has the most to lose as the market leader in golf ball sales. When the likes of Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods are calling for a dial back in distance for the golf ball I think everyone ought to listen. Even Ben Crenshaw and Bill Coore, arguably the most highly regarded golf architects today, believe the golf ball needs to be dialed back. You can't blame golf course developers or golf course architects for the impact of the golf ball on the game of golf and on all these great existing golf courses that were designed and built over 50 years ago.

Ulhein has very little if any credibility arguing those points. Can you imagine accusing the likes of Gil Hanse,Bill Coore,Ben Crenshaw, Tom Doak, Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus etc., etc. for lacking creativity when it comes to golf course design?? Come on.

Long term, the Titleist $4.00 golf ball is in big trouble. They will be forced to radically change their business model if they are to maintain their existing share of the market. If Costco(with their Kirkland Signature ball) decides to go full speed into the golf ball market, they will crush Titleist. And, that's with a golf ball that arguably might be as good but certainly is not better than the ProV1. And, companies like Snell, Vice and Cut will be able to take small slices of the market, very similar to how craft beers have slowly eroded the market share of the companies like Inbev and Molson-Coors that sells Budweiser etc.

Fila and their investors were smart to take Acushnet public when they did. Challenging times ahead for Acushnet. They will eventually have to deal head on with the likes of Amazon, Costco and some of the small golf ball companies whose golf balls are terrific for the average golfer at less than half the price. Who cares if you don't play the same golf ball as Dustin Johnson or Jordan Spieth. Do you really believe the ProV1 ball lowers the handicap of the average golfer?? If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Don't get me wrong, Titleist products are of excellent quality. Their shoes and golf clubs are great! I probably own 8 pair of Footjoys. Great quality and great value. But, their golf ball, although as good as any on the market, is way overpriced.

I am amazed how one is more focused on who is saying something, than what he is saying.
You don´t need credibility provided by the ones, that support your opinion anyway, if you have the better arguments, and the data to look at - or not?

Or is this the old game of before, and after the election...
...where every party tries to miscredit the other, to place their own rubbish without real facts.

I am not inclined to go this route, but would rather stay objective, on data, instead of persons.


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#141 North Butte

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:03 PM

Why does Mike Davis routinely set up courses as much as 1,000 yards less than their full length for rounds of the US Open? Isn't there supposed to be a crisis of courses not being long enough to handle the distance of the modern golf ball?
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#142 Dpavs

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:07 PM

View PostTheMackDaddy, on 20 November 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

I came across this article in the WSJ: https://www.google.c...ules-1511106977
I think it really sums up the dilemma that the PGA tour is in, because on one hand it's fun to watch 350+ yard drives, but the additional costs of expanding these courses is huge.

The courses do not need to be built longer or bigger... they just need to be built smarter and more imaginative. Better course designs could actually result in courses  taking up less real estate than they do today... not more.

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#143 Z1ggy16

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:32 PM

Make the courses harder before changing the ball (but don't make them longer). Put in more traps in common landing areas... force players to lay up more often, even on par 4's. Put obstacles  in places to force players to play a big sweeping hook or cut if they want to hit the green. Don't make fairways roll a 10 or 11 on a stimp... make them more like a normal every day muni where you maybe only get 10 or 15 yards roll out... not 40+.

I could see a case for only the pro's having a dialed back ball much like how the MLB has wooden bats vice metal for all other lower forms of play (college, high school, etc). Many stadiums are the same size as they were 50 years ago and the game is just fine.

I also don't know why Tiger is having such a melt down over this. If you look at stats, average driving distance hasn't really gone up over the past few years. We've pretty much hit a cap on max distance due to the limits being physically reached with COR. All OEMs can do is try to make the ball launch higher with less spin, but that also has a cap due to the laws of physics... and that's pretty much been reached, too. MOI or forgiveness also has limits and is already getting close to being maxed to it's highest level of usefulness. Next is getting players to swing faster... but what's some turbulator going to get me.. 1mph more speed? Ok so 3-4 yards? Great... Do I need to change the ball and an entire course lay out over that? We're already hitting the diminishing level of returns, you're seeing guys keep things like 3 woods in the bag for 4+ years at a time before they switch and that might even be because the face cracked, not because something new is much better.

At this point in the game the only reason guys are getting longer is because they are physically getting better at this sport. How many DJs or John Rahms existed in Jack's era? Now you've got a tour full of guys like this and a game that's struggling to attract new participants, what else do you expect??

Edited by Z1ggy16, 21 November 2017 - 03:46 PM.

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#144 Uhit

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:38 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 21 November 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

Why does Mike Davis routinely set up courses as much as 1,000 yards less than their full length for rounds of the US Open? Isn't there supposed to be a crisis of courses not being long enough to handle the distance of the modern golf ball?
Maybe he just WANT to make a major change to put his name into the books (good, or bad), and is trying to do this by all means...
...there once was a president, who said something like:

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”

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#145 Kevinx

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:15 PM

While they should stop improving the ball distance.  They shou k d stop cutting and rolling the fairways


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#146 cane700

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:53 PM

I'd like to see a pro golfer go and play a local muni with less than perfect conditioning. Then lets see how badly they want to roll back the ball.

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#147 bladehunter

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 05:18 PM

Funny thing is here.   Most who are against the rollback wouldn't even be effected. If you aren't playing a urethane v1x 330 z star equivalent you are likely playing the lower compression roll back ball already.
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#148 Z1ggy16

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 05:48 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 21 November 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

Funny thing is here.   Most who are against the rollback wouldn't even be effected. If you aren't playing a urethane v1x 330 z star equivalent you are likely playing the lower compression roll back ball already.
What do you mean? Most golf balls are going about the same distance off the driver regardless of the ball type (Super Soft vs Chrome Soft, etc). No balls that we use are "nerfed" relative to any others...If anything the soft compression "amateur" balls would go slightly further, but maybe only by a few yards due to a little less spin.
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#149 North Butte

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 05:54 PM

View PostZ1ggy16, on 21 November 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 21 November 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

Funny thing is here.   Most who are against the rollback wouldn't even be effected. If you aren't playing a urethane v1x 330 z star equivalent you are likely playing the lower compression roll back ball already.
What do you mean? Most golf balls are going about the same distance off the driver regardless of the ball type (Super Soft vs Chrome Soft, etc). No balls that we use are "nerfed" relative to any others...If anything the soft compression "amateur" balls would go slightly further, but maybe only by a few yards due to a little less spin.

He thinks Tour type balls are magical and kick into overdrive when hit by Tour players.
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#150 rony10

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 06:39 PM

Long drive wanna-bees, long hitting chest thumpers, short hitters who dream of being long, seniors who hate bunkers in front of greens because they can no longer get the ball in the air and need to run the ball up, tour players who can turn par 5s into 4s, golf companies who need your / my money to exist and golf clubs that want the design / integrity of their cse intact. Just a few of the dynamics in the game of golf that ensures NO ONE WILL AGREE OR EVER BE HAPPY with what ever change is made. Just look at what were fed on all the time, LONGER, MORE DISTANCE, LIGHTER & FASTER, INCREASED BALL / SWING SPEED jeez no wonder the words SHORTER, NOT AS LONG & HIGHER SCORES strike fear in golfers. lol If and when these world ending changes are made we will survive. Some baby boomers will go AHHHH this is how it should be, the cses's soul is back and the modern gen (titanium and graphite) will go, I remember when, I used to drive the ball sooo long and I will hord my TP5x's and play a rnd with them late in the evening to remember the good old days. SOOOO LONG, distance is gooood. lol
My 2 cents, sitting in my comfy chair I like driver, 3w, 7i - 9i par 5's, I like the challenge of a course's design played as intended. On the cse I hit long and like a wedge / chip and run into 4's eagles on 5's and open cse's where I still have a clean shot in 2 fw's over. lol
My point, if your still with me is, the kids will get better and longer, Ill get older and shorter and golf companies will still feed us. We will never agree and we will adapt to what ever happens and remember , "we pay a lot of money to have this much fun" (remember golf is fun, golf is fun, GOLF IS FUN! NOT triple bogey, bugger).          
Robin Willims - Golf (full version) https://www.youtube....h?v=pcnFbCCgTo4


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