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* * * * - 3 votes

Distance Poll


286 replies to this topic

Poll: Distance Poll (357 member(s) have cast votes)

How do you feel about the distances that the pros now hit the ball?

  1. I love it. Let it rip! (187 votes [52.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.38%

  2. Dial it back. Things are getting silly out there. (139 votes [38.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.94%

  3. Other - see my reply below for details. (31 votes [8.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.68%

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#31 DavePelz4

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:14 PM

Yesterday's final round in Vegas was interesting as on the 460 yard par 4 18th, drives were barely going 250-260 leaving players with 200+ yard approach shots.  In probably the last 4-5 groups there was only 1 player who made par.  On the first playoff hole, everyone bogied the first time around and the second there was a par, a bogey and a double.


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#32 widow-maker

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:27 PM

Dial it back for the Tour.  Keep it the way it is for us amateurs.  You just can't keep lengthening these golf courses for the Pro's.  It's not cost efficient for 1 week out of the year, or 1 week every 7-8 years for majors.  It doesn't have to be dialed back crazy, but it can't keep going like this.  Too many guys are hitting over 300 yards and it doesn't seem to be stopping.

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#33 Santiago Golf

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:30 PM

View PostItsjustagame, on 06 November 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

For 98% of the golfers in the world this is purely academic as once a course gets over about 6500 yards its too long for their game.
As for the pros, they all play the same course so leave it the way it is.
I even say once they get over 5600 its long for their game.

PATs are played at 6500ish (trying to shoot roughly 155 on 35)
Most state ams are played at 6800 (trying roughly break 150-144 on 36)

Why should people who cant break 120 on 18 be playing longer than them. Let alone play 18 holes. Its like 3-3 half court basketball.
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#34 Socrates

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:40 PM

No matter who attempts what, they are going to get their a$$es sued by whichever OEM group that gets affected.  Change the ball and every ball manufacturer will claim billions lost in sales and what to do with all the illegal and antiquated balls.  Do you grandfather in the existing balls for how many years?  What about Joe WRXer who just bought 20 dozen K-Sig's?  Clubs would even be worse and bigger lawsuits.

While all that's happening, it could be 20 years before all the old equipment gets 100% illegal and by then 90% of the current Tour courses will be under water if you subscribe to the global warming.  So then they just might as well build a whole bunch of 9000 yard courses for the Tour Stops.  Then the whole thing would've been a colossal waste of time.
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#35 Santiago Golf

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:40 PM

The best in world played 7800 us open this year and winning score was -16. The winning score at PGA was -8 on 7600. Us open at Merion was played under 7000, winning score +1. When you make the rough LONG and the GREENS FAST these will not score.

Winning Scores on tour should be

US OPEN- never lower than -5, very few under par
Masters, Open, and PGA- less than -8
WGC and Permiere Tour Events less than -10
Med level tour events- less than -20
Low level, alt events- they can go as low as they want

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#36 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:10 PM

View PostDavePelz4, on 06 November 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Yesterday's final round in Vegas was interesting as on the 460 yard par 4 18th, drives were barely going 250-260 leaving players with 200+ yard approach shots.  In probably the last 4-5 groups there was only 1 player who made par.  On the first playoff hole, everyone bogied the first time around and the second there was a par, a bogey and a double.
What was different? Wind, up hill, Fairways not rolled like muni greens?

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#37 BlackDiamondPar5

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:12 PM

View PostSocrates, on 06 November 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

No matter who attempts what, they are going to get their a$$es sued by whichever OEM group that gets affected.  Change the ball and every ball manufacturer will claim billions lost in sales and what to do with all the illegal and antiquated balls.  Do you grandfather in the existing balls for how many years?  What about Joe WRXer who just bought 20 dozen K-Sig's?  Clubs would even be worse and bigger lawsuits.

While all that's happening, it could be 20 years before all the old equipment gets 100% illegal and by then 90% of the current Tour courses will be under water if you subscribe to the global warming.  So then they just might as well build a whole bunch of 9000 yard courses for the Tour Stops.  Then the whole thing would've been a colossal waste of time.
Or perhaps just bifurcate and let the Tour do what it wants and leave the rest of us alone.

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#38 DavePelz4

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:13 PM

View PostBlackDiamondPar5, on 06 November 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

View PostDavePelz4, on 06 November 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Yesterday's final round in Vegas was interesting as on the 460 yard par 4 18th, drives were barely going 250-260 leaving players with 200+ yard approach shots.  In probably the last 4-5 groups there was only 1 player who made par.  On the first playoff hole, everyone bogied the first time around and the second there was a par, a bogey and a double.
What was different? Wind, up hill, Fairways not rolled like muni greens?

Allegedly they were hitting into the wind and it didn't seem like there was a ton of roll.  That tournament usually has a winning score of -20ish and this time it was -9.

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#39 disk

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:14 PM

Stop depriving the fairways of water and rolling them like greens and guys will be a lot shorter off the tee.

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#40 jacobEDGE

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:16 PM

Even if I hit the ball as far as the Tour Pros, I still don't have the short game/putting game to ever see myself competing. So let them hit it as far as they possibly can. It doesn't affect me one way or another.


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#41 raynorfan1

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:30 PM

Add me to the group that thinks PGA distances are a farce for show.

Chicks dig the long ball.

When you’ve got PGA setup guides advocating that fairways be dried and rolled in advance of events, and you soften the rough and perfect the bunkers...you’re encouraging a long drive competition.

“These guys are good”

IMHO course setup needs to be dialed up before the ball is dialed back. Grow the rough. Rake bunkers with those old Oakmont furrow rakes. Then you’ll get a bunch of guys complaining that they WANT to see the tour guys hitting driver, not 2 irons on Par 4’s. The PGA Tour is just giving us what the market wants.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

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#42 Medic

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:28 PM

Anyone else ever watch the Nascar event where they all drive literally the exact same setup. Supposed to be a true test of their driving skills.

Why not have a PGA event or two in similar fashion? Old school equipment with everyone playing the exact same setup - just to their specs. (The Nascar drivers are allowed to adjust the mirrors and the seat, right?)

Might be an interesting and entertaining watch.
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#43 disk

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:30 PM

View PostMedic, on 06 November 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

Anyone else ever watch the Nascar event where they all drive literally the exact same setup. Supposed to be a true test of their driving skills.

Why not have a PGA event or two in similar fashion? Old school equipment with everyone playing the exact same setup - just to their specs. (The Nascar drivers are allowed to adjust the mirrors and the seat, right?)

Might be an interesting and entertaining watch.

In what way are guys NOT playing with the same setup? It's not like F1 or something where being with a certain company means your gear is better, they all play the same stuff...

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#44 CCTxGolf

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:36 PM

I think that it still takes a hell of a lot of skill to hit a ball as far as they do. That is why they are pro golfers.
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#45 hybrid25

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:42 PM

The driver/wedge par 4's can get a little boring, maybe something could be done, similar to some of the USOpen venues.


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#46 Haig79

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:42 PM

Limit all driver and other wood sizes and add spin to the ball.  I think they should set standards for iron lofts and limit putter lengths (shortest club in Bag).  Always have been old school.
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#47 new2g0lf

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:15 AM

The poll is virtually worthless, given it's wording.  How far back are we dialing it back?  Most of those fighting for rollback in these threads want golf rolled back 20 years, is that what you all are voting for?
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#48 MrJones

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:21 AM

After giving it some thought, I'd hate to watch the best players in the game play with equipment that wouldn't showcase what they're actually capable of.
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#49 bladehunter

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 10:18 AM

View Postnew2g0lf, on 07 November 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

The poll is virtually worthless, given it's wording.  How far back are we dialing it back?  Most of those fighting for rollback in these threads want golf rolled back 20 years, is that what you all are voting for?

To spin it the other direction.  Are all you anti rollback guys wanting to see 400 yd drives and 170 yd pw?  That's what you are voting for if you allow the tech to progress.  The candidate above is throwing his 20 year spin on this. And I haven't seen a single soul advocate for a wound ball.  Just that the ball could spin a touch more and thus be harder to hit as straight.  Which should cut down overall distances.  Some guys will still hit it plenty long.  If they can play the curves the ball would provide.  All that can be achieved easily with a durable solid core ball.

Can't believe we are actually trying to influence a poll started by the anti rollback OP because it doesn't show what you want.  It has actually shown close to 50/50 split.  It's all nonsense anyway. Why try to fake it to fit the narrative ?

Edited by bladehunter, 07 November 2017 - 10:21 AM.

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#50 raynorfan1

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 11:27 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 07 November 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

To spin it the other direction.  Are all you anti rollback guys wanting to see 400 yd drives and 170 yd pw?

How far a professional athlete can hit a ball doesn't really matter, IMHO. What matters is how it impacts the game. I think you need to dial up the difficulty of the course, such that a 400 yard drive or 170 yard pitching wedge doesn't have such a dramatic impact on score.


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#51 Uhit

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 11:45 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 07 November 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 07 November 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

The poll is virtually worthless, given it's wording.  How far back are we dialing it back?  Most of those fighting for rollback in these threads want golf rolled back 20 years, is that what you all are voting for?

To spin it the other direction.  Are all you anti rollback guys wanting to see 400 yd drives and 170 yd pw?  That's what you are voting for if you allow the tech to progress.  The candidate above is throwing his 20 year spin on this. And I haven't seen a single soul advocate for a wound ball.  Just that the ball could spin a touch more and thus be harder to hit as straight.  Which should cut down overall distances.  Some guys will still hit it plenty long.  If they can play the curves the ball would provide.  All that can be achieved easily with a durable solid core ball.

Can't believe we are actually trying to influence a poll started by the anti rollback OP because it doesn't show what you want.  It has actually shown close to 50/50 split.  It's all nonsense anyway. Why try to fake it to fit the narrative ?

This report shows:

http://www.golfwrx.c...le-has-changed/

...that on some tours, driving distance has slightly increased, and on other tours, it has decreased!

The driving distance in this report includes the roll - which is very depending on the fairway conditions, and not only by the ball.

We already have a limit of COR 0.83 for the ball and club face.
COR 1.0 would be the theoretical maximum (no loss), which is just 20% more, than what we already have.

20% more energy (COR 0.83 vs. COR 1.00) would result in around 10% additional carry distance...
...thus, a 300 yards long hitter would end up in no more than 330 yards with a perfect ball and clubhead, on a perfect strike.

The fear, that the distance could grow limitless is therefore complete nonsense.

And the higher accuracy that is needed for a longer drive, challenges the golfer even more.

Higher spin balls are already on the market, as tour balls...
...you just have to buy and play them, instead of distance balls.

The very few courses that think, that they desperately need a shorter ball for their tournaments, can apply a local rule, or make their fairways simply slower!

-

I think, that many are not aware, that some golfer are also businessman, that try to sell you something, that you (and the game golf) don´t really need...

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#52 snizzle

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 12:20 PM

View PostPGArox, on 05 November 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

View Postsdandrea, on 05 November 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Grow the rough, narrow in the fairways and let the boys play.  Make distance a risk/reward decision.

Sorry, but that is just not going to happen at most of your regular TOUR stops.  They won't go to all that trouble for four days a year.

Big championships like The PLAYERS, or tournaments where a guy like Jack Nicklaus has so much say (The Memorial) might be willing to invest the time and energy, but it won't be happening otherwise.

That makes sense but if they are going to hold a PGA tournament growing the rough out for a week or 10 days should not be a huge issue.  I'm all for letting it rip but there needs to be a consequence for wayward drives.  The risk/reward factor is a big part of why I especially enjoy watching the US Open and other events that actually penalize players for not keeping the ball in the fairway.  Watching tournaments where the winning score is -24 is really not my cup of tea and is exactly like the courses they play on the Web tour.

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#53 new2g0lf

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 12:59 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 07 November 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 07 November 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

The poll is virtually worthless, given it's wording.  How far back are we dialing it back?  Most of those fighting for rollback in these threads want golf rolled back 20 years, is that what you all are voting for?

To spin it the other direction.  Are all you anti rollback guys wanting to see 400 yd drives and 170 yd pw?  That's what you are voting for if you allow the tech to progress.  The candidate above is throwing his 20 year spin on this. And I haven't seen a single soul advocate for a wound ball.  Just that the ball could spin a touch more and thus be harder to hit as straight.  Which should cut down overall distances.  Some guys will still hit it plenty long.  If they can play the curves the ball would provide.  All that can be achieved easily with a durable solid core ball.

Can't believe we are actually trying to influence a poll started by the anti rollback OP because it doesn't show what you want.  It has actually shown close to 50/50 split.  It's all nonsense anyway. Why try to fake it to fit the narrative ?
You said in another post, 15 years, and you refuse to acknowledge there are already limits in place which is why the incremental increase year over year in minimal.  

It would just be easier if you'd learn how to play current equipment or build yourself a time machine.
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#54 bladehunter

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:23 PM

View Postnew2g0lf, on 07 November 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 07 November 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 07 November 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

The poll is virtually worthless, given it's wording.  How far back are we dialing it back?  Most of those fighting for rollback in these threads want golf rolled back 20 years, is that what you all are voting for?

To spin it the other direction.  Are all you anti rollback guys wanting to see 400 yd drives and 170 yd pw?  That's what you are voting for if you allow the tech to progress.  The candidate above is throwing his 20 year spin on this. And I haven't seen a single soul advocate for a wound ball.  Just that the ball could spin a touch more and thus be harder to hit as straight.  Which should cut down overall distances.  Some guys will still hit it plenty long.  If they can play the curves the ball would provide.  All that can be achieved easily with a durable solid core ball.

Can't believe we are actually trying to influence a poll started by the anti rollback OP because it doesn't show what you want.  It has actually shown close to 50/50 split.  It's all nonsense anyway. Why try to fake it to fit the narrative ?
You said in another post, 15 years, and you refuse to acknowledge there are already limits in place which is why the incremental increase year over year in minimal.  

It would just be easier if you'd learn how to play current equipment or build yourself a time machine.


I don't personally believe that there isn't incremental distance gains year over year for the higher level driver.  I'm seeing 325-340 yard drives regularly on tour.  And some 365-380 downhill.   5ft 7 guys didn't used to do that.  

I believe the limits that are in place are already being circumnavigated with ball and driver. Example.  Jailbreak in epic. And tp5x.   I've seen some 1.53 smash factors myself with epic.  And that's supposedly impossible with the 1.50 being a perfect strike and max output etc.  the oems will figure it out. And the rules will need to change again. Just like when they stoppped usin COR and went to the CT test.  The race is still on.  Anyone who thinks it isn't isn't paying attention.


Loook you have some points I agree with.  Or more accurately would concede.  But my side of the coin isn't all crazy town either.  The correct answer lies in the middle as usual.

Edited by bladehunter, 07 November 2017 - 01:25 PM.

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#55 300_Straight

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:24 PM

View PostUhit, on 07 November 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 07 November 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 07 November 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

The poll is virtually worthless, given it's wording.  How far back are we dialing it back?  Most of those fighting for rollback in these threads want golf rolled back 20 years, is that what you all are voting for?

To spin it the other direction.  Are all you anti rollback guys wanting to see 400 yd drives and 170 yd pw?  That's what you are voting for if you allow the tech to progress.  The candidate above is throwing his 20 year spin on this. And I haven't seen a single soul advocate for a wound ball.  Just that the ball could spin a touch more and thus be harder to hit as straight.  Which should cut down overall distances.  Some guys will still hit it plenty long.  If they can play the curves the ball would provide.  All that can be achieved easily with a durable solid core ball.

Can't believe we are actually trying to influence a poll started by the anti rollback OP because it doesn't show what you want.  It has actually shown close to 50/50 split.  It's all nonsense anyway. Why try to fake it to fit the narrative ?

This report shows:

http://www.golfwrx.c...le-has-changed/

...that on some tours, driving distance has slightly increased, and on other tours, it has decreased!

The driving distance in this report includes the roll - which is very depending on the fairway conditions, and not only by the ball.

We already have a limit of COR 0.83 for the ball and club face.
COR 1.0 would be the theoretical maximum (no loss), which is just 20% more, than what we already have.

20% more energy (COR 0.83 vs. COR 1.00) would result in around 10% additional carry distance...
...thus, a 300 yards long hitter would end up in no more than 330 yards with a perfect ball and clubhead, on a perfect strike.

The fear, that the distance could grow limitless is therefore complete nonsense.

And the higher accuracy that is needed for a longer drive, challenges the golfer even more.

Higher spin balls are already on the market, as tour balls...
...you just have to buy and play them, instead of distance balls.

The very few courses that think, that they desperately need a shorter ball for their tournaments, can apply a local rule, or make their fairways simply slower!

-

I think, that many are not aware, that some golfer are also businessman, that try to sell you something, that you (and the game golf) don´t really need...
^^ Yes. And with the Maximum COR established, there are only minimal gains by moving mass. They are Professional Athletes. Let them play how they play. The higher your SS, the more difficult it is to hit the ball straight because a deviation of 1* of face rotation has a much larger consequence.

Perhaps we should put a height limit on the NBA?
Or perhaps we should only allow MLB Pitchers to throw <95mph?

Give me a break.


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#56 RedWings1

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:25 PM

I voted other. I don't think the actual "Carry Distance" is an issue. If you are capable of the swing speeds and impact accuracy to generate 300 yards of carry and hit the middle of the fairway you should be rewarded. I believe the course set up is the issue. Seeing the ball roll out another 30-60+ yards after landing is absurd to me. Dial back the fairway firmness and challenge the player with tighter landing areas. I'd like to see more players rewarded for being able to knock the flag down with his 7 iron instead of a 50* to 56* gap wedge all the time. I'm specifically talking PGA Tour. I wouldn't change anything for the amateurs.

Edited by RedWings1, 07 November 2017 - 01:33 PM.

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#57 bladehunter

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:27 PM

View Post300_Straight, on 07 November 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

View PostUhit, on 07 November 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 07 November 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

View Postnew2g0lf, on 07 November 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

The poll is virtually worthless, given it's wording.  How far back are we dialing it back?  Most of those fighting for rollback in these threads want golf rolled back 20 years, is that what you all are voting for?

To spin it the other direction.  Are all you anti rollback guys wanting to see 400 yd drives and 170 yd pw?  That's what you are voting for if you allow the tech to progress.  The candidate above is throwing his 20 year spin on this. And I haven't seen a single soul advocate for a wound ball.  Just that the ball could spin a touch more and thus be harder to hit as straight.  Which should cut down overall distances.  Some guys will still hit it plenty long.  If they can play the curves the ball would provide.  All that can be achieved easily with a durable solid core ball.

Can't believe we are actually trying to influence a poll started by the anti rollback OP because it doesn't show what you want.  It has actually shown close to 50/50 split.  It's all nonsense anyway. Why try to fake it to fit the narrative ?

This report shows:

http://www.golfwrx.c...le-has-changed/

...that on some tours, driving distance has slightly increased, and on other tours, it has decreased!

The driving distance in this report includes the roll - which is very depending on the fairway conditions, and not only by the ball.

We already have a limit of COR 0.83 for the ball and club face.
COR 1.0 would be the theoretical maximum (no loss), which is just 20% more, than what we already have.

20% more energy (COR 0.83 vs. COR 1.00) would result in around 10% additional carry distance...
...thus, a 300 yards long hitter would end up in no more than 330 yards with a perfect ball and clubhead, on a perfect strike.

The fear, that the distance could grow limitless is therefore complete nonsense.

And the higher accuracy that is needed for a longer drive, challenges the golfer even more.

Higher spin balls are already on the market, as tour balls...
...you just have to buy and play them, instead of distance balls.

The very few courses that think, that they desperately need a shorter ball for their tournaments, can apply a local rule, or make their fairways simply slower!

-

I think, that many are not aware, that some golfer are also businessman, that try to sell you something, that you (and the game golf) don´t really need...
^^ Yes. And with the Maximum COR established, there are only minimal gains by moving mass. They are Professional Athletes. Let them play how they play. The higher your SS, the more difficult it is to hit the ball straight because a deviation of 1* of face rotation has a much larger consequence.

Perhaps we should put a height limit on the NBA?
Or perhaps we should only allow MLB Pitchers to throw <95mph?

Give me a break.

COR hasnt been used in a while. THey use CT test now.  If I read correctly.  

And your analogy would work if I were talking about raising  the basketball goal.  I'm not talking about limiting players. I'm talking limiting equipment.  As in not lowering the basketball goal further.

Edited by bladehunter, 07 November 2017 - 01:28 PM.

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#58 NV825

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:27 PM

View Postsnizzle, on 07 November 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

View PostPGArox, on 05 November 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

View Postsdandrea, on 05 November 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Grow the rough, narrow in the fairways and let the boys play.  Make distance a risk/reward decision.

Sorry, but that is just not going to happen at most of your regular TOUR stops.  They won't go to all that trouble for four days a year.

Big championships like The PLAYERS, or tournaments where a guy like Jack Nicklaus has so much say (The Memorial) might be willing to invest the time and energy, but it won't be happening otherwise.

That makes sense but if they are going to hold a PGA tournament growing the rough out for a week or 10 days should not be a huge issue.  I'm all for letting it rip but there needs to be a consequence for wayward drives.  The risk/reward factor is a big part of why I especially enjoy watching the US Open and other events that actually penalize players for not keeping the ball in the fairway.  Watching tournaments where the winning score is -24 is really not my cup of tea and is exactly like the courses they play on the Web tour.

I am also in the camp that course setup should be the first thing to change before more equipment limitations. Grow the rough and stop rolling fairways to be as hard as the greens at my neighborhood muni. Regular TOUR stops can make these changes if it were required to be a host venue.

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#59 Barfolomew

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:47 PM

Im no physicist but if they dial it back won't the longer players STILL hit a 2 club difference into a green over average hitters??

But I would prefer to see skill of accuracy be rewarded over distance to make golf a more universal game for everyone to compete more evenly...but that aint gonna happen
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#60 Uhit

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:58 PM

View PostBarfolomew, on 07 November 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

Im no physicist but if they dial it back won't the longer players STILL hit a 2 club difference into a green over average hitters??

But I would prefer to see skill of accuracy be rewarded over distance to make golf a more universal game for everyone to compete more evenly...but that aint gonna happen

...this game already exists, and it is called: miniature golf

...where the skill of distance AND accuracy is less rewarded, than in golf.


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