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* * * * - 3 votes

Distance Poll


286 replies to this topic

Poll: Distance Poll (355 member(s) have cast votes)

How do you feel about the distances that the pros now hit the ball?

  1. I love it. Let it rip! (185 votes [52.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.11%

  2. Dial it back. Things are getting silly out there. (139 votes [39.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.15%

  3. Other - see my reply below for details. (31 votes [8.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.73%

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#121 bladehunter

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:49 AM

View PostBye, on 11 November 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

No one seems to have mentioned that the modern ball and equipment massively benefits the longer hitter.

There is no point going back 10 years to show that someone like Bubba is not hitting it any further. Back then there were 3 guys that would get clocked at 180+ ball speed (Buuba, Tiger and JB). Now there are 30+ guys doing it.

Everything changed over night about 15-16 years ago when the Pro V1 was introduced.

So many of the old, great courses are now to short for the tours to play.


Think about that statement.  It doesn't mean the advantage is to the longer hitter.  And it doesn't mean that fitness is the cause. If either were true the longer guys would be longer.  The truth is the shorter and medium guys are now  long and medium because of equipment.

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#122 golfer929

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:49 PM

To everyone in this thread who says the ball is going too far... Are you all playing clubs and balls from 20-30-40 years ago?

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#123 Nard_S

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:37 PM

View Postgolfer929, on 12 November 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

To everyone in this thread who says the ball is going too far... Are you all playing clubs and balls from 20-30-40 years ago?

Mean age of bag is 20 years old. Actually been playing wound 3 piece balls from 1999 about half my round for the last 3 years.

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#124 bladehunter

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:47 AM

View Postgolfer929, on 12 November 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

To everyone in this thread who says the ball is going too far... Are you all playing clubs and balls from 20-30-40 years ago?

of course not.. to compete we must try to keep up with the arms race....  you are missing the point..... no im not going to re type the point.. its been stated 100 times already
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#125 Valtiel

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:07 AM

View PostBye, on 11 November 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

No one seems to have mentioned that the modern ball and equipment massively benefits the longer hitter.

There is no point going back 10 years to show that someone like Bubba is not hitting it any further. Back then there were 3 guys that would get clocked at 180+ ball speed (Buuba, Tiger and JB). Now there are 30+ guys doing it.

Everything changed over night about 15-16 years ago when the Pro V1 was introduced.

So many of the old, great courses are now to short for the tours to play.

"Back then", assuming you are referring to 2007 (10 years ago) there were half as many people swinging 120+ as there are now. We have way more people swinging harder now, the fact that is ignored in this discussion is baffling to me.

In 2007, Bubba averaged 315y with a 124mph swing. In 2016, Bubba averaged 310y with a 121mph swing. JB Holmes in 2007, 312y with 123mph and 2016, 314y with 121mph. Bubba hasn't really gained anything, JB Holmes gained a couple yards. I also excluded Bubba's 2017 numbers as they were actually much worse, but I know he lost a bunch of weight and has been playing a different stock shot off the tee more. None of the data supports what you're saying so you might want to update your position.

View Postbladehunter, on 08 November 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

Any thoughts on the aging yet sustained averages ?

Swing speeds hardly changed, so nothing really to add here.

Edited by Valtiel, 13 November 2017 - 04:03 AM.

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#126 bladehunter

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 07:57 AM

View PostValtiel, on 13 November 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

View PostBye, on 11 November 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

No one seems to have mentioned that the modern ball and equipment massively benefits the longer hitter.

There is no point going back 10 years to show that someone like Bubba is not hitting it any further. Back then there were 3 guys that would get clocked at 180+ ball speed (Buuba, Tiger and JB). Now there are 30+ guys doing it.

Everything changed over night about 15-16 years ago when the Pro V1 was introduced.

So many of the old, great courses are now to short for the tours to play.

"Back then", assuming you are referring to 2007 (10 years ago) there were half as many people swinging 120+ as there are now. We have way more people swinging harder now, the fact that is ignored in this discussion is baffling to me.

In 2007, Bubba averaged 315y with a 124mph swing. In 2016, Bubba averaged 310y with a 121mph swing. JB Holmes in 2007, 312y with 123mph and 2016, 314y with 121mph. Bubba hasn't really gained anything, JB Holmes gained a couple yards. I also excluded Bubba's 2017 numbers as they were actually much worse, but I know he lost a bunch of weight and has been playing a different stock shot off the tee more. None of the data supports what you're saying so you might want to update your position.    

View Postbladehunter, on 08 November 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

Any thoughts on the aging yet sustained averages ?

Swing speeds hardly changed, so nothing really to add here.

Harder swings aren't being ignored. That was covered . Smaller driver heads would pull back swings.  They are swinging all out because they are afforded the forgiveness to miss
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#127 QuigleyDU

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:38 AM

i voted other. i am not a dial it back guy, but saying i "love it" is also not correct. i am kinda a "it is what it is" guy.
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#128 Uhit

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:17 AM

View PostQuigleyDU, on 13 November 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

i voted other. i am not a dial it back guy, but saying i "love it" is also not correct. i am kinda a "it is what it is" guy.

I see it this way:

I also would have voted "other", if it would really count as much, as "I love it"...

I voted not for "dial it back", because I think that the arguments for this opinion are not really based on facts,
and the outcome would hurt the game golf (and the pocket of the people) more, than when I vote for "I love it".

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#129 Bye

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:45 PM

View PostUhit, on 12 November 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

View PostBye, on 11 November 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

No one seems to have mentioned that the modern ball and equipment massively benefits the longer hitter.

There is no point going back 10 years to show that someone like Bubba is not hitting it any further. Back then there were 3 guys that would get clocked at 180+ ball speed (Buuba, Tiger and JB). Now there are 30+ guys doing it.

Everything changed over night about 15-16 years ago when the Pro V1 was introduced.

So many of the old, great courses are now to short for the tours to play.

Maybe because it is not true?


If it were true, then the longest would have become even longer...

...thus, according your logic, Bubba, Tiger and JB should have an even greater gap to the rest of the players.


But for some reason, as you stated yourself, nowadays, the field is closing up to those exceptional long hitters.

And this is better explainable with improved athleticism of the whole field of players, than with the equipment.


If anything, one should introduce more doping controls...

I get what your saying but it wasn't the point I was trying to make. If you go back to when the Pro V1 was introduced there was a massive increase in how far players hit the ball. The PGA tour have done their distance studies over the past 10 years, the game changed with the Pro v1.

Why would those 3 players be longer now? They are older more experienced and in Bubba's case he already was hitting it on the up smash factor 1.50, drivers have been limited. There are guys up near 130 CHS and over 190 ball speeds, so the longest hitters are getting faster.

The reason everyone else has caught up is 1, as you mentioned they are better athletes and 2, trackman and force plates have shown everyone how to use the ground and transfer their weight properly and optimise their launch conditions.

Also it is true that the modern ball and tech benefit the longer hitter. Just watch the reviews, turbulators, vortex, Boeing, all of the reviews state that the longer hitters will see club head speed increases (limited) where a slower player won't. With the ball, if you have enough speed you get a bigger advantage of the lower spin characteristics.

I agree they should all be dope tested for the lot, beta blockers and PED's etc.



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#130 Medic

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:20 PM

What I really find interesting here is how close the poll is.

Clearly this is a subject lots of members here are passionate about. Regardless of which side of the issue you are on I would argue that great points have been made going both directions. But most importantly this thread has remained fairly civil. Members just presenting some opinions and then pointing out facts that back them.

Was worried a little when I first started this thread. Could have gone a much different way for sure given the passion and beliefs involved. Really glad I started it now - very enlightening and no reason anyone should leave it feeling like their thoughts were attacked. Hopefully others see it this way also.

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#131 llamont

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:11 PM

I say let it rip... Thing is, there will be no Champions Tour field in 20 years when all of today's young guns have severe back/knee issues stemming from today's powerful swing dynamics.
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#132 Medic

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:47 PM

View Postllamont, on 13 November 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

I say let it rip... Thing is, there will be no Champions Tour field in 20 years when all of today's young guns have severe back/knee issues stemming from today's powerful swing dynamics.

But imagine the medical advances by then.

They will simply clone your parts when you are young and healthy and then install them as replacements later on when you need them. Sort of like a fountain of youth as it were.
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#133 borker

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:05 AM

I'm totally one to suggest this needs to be dialed back. Seeing people like Ricky rip 310 drives and the longer hitters taking ridiculous lines over trees to cut off dog-legs and such is an atrocity to these wonderful courses that were designed to test course management. Then constant short iron after short iron approaches on TV has really gotten so boring and passe to me that my viewership of golf on TV has declined dramatically. Only time I see 3i or 2i anymore is off the tee (and again 2 hundred freakin 80).

But then I see that scoring averages haven't dropped because of the distances so in the end it isn't the advantage they say it is.
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#134 Uhit

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:35 AM

View Postborker, on 15 November 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

I'm totally one to suggest this needs to be dialed back. Seeing people like Ricky rip 310 drives and the longer hitters taking ridiculous lines over trees to cut off dog-legs and such is an atrocity to these wonderful courses that were designed to test course management. Then constant short iron after short iron approaches on TV has really gotten so boring and passe to me that my viewership of golf on TV has declined dramatically. Only time I see 3i or 2i anymore is off the tee (and again 2 hundred freakin 80).

But then I see that scoring averages haven't dropped because of the distances so in the end it isn't the advantage they say it is.

Imagine Rick would rip 250 yard drives on TV, like the average young player on your home course, and the long hitters on your course become the ones, who cut off dog-legs...

...for sure, you would watch more TV...

...or play breathtaking rounds with short hitters, stitching their shots together from the middle of the fairway, with a lay up right before everything, that looks like a hazard,
to reach the green with a short chip shot, and finally make a average putt.

Yeah, this would really help the game golf to survive! :to_become_senile:

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#135 Tgstan

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:03 AM

Funny. Announcers could tell me "that drive went 400 yards!" and unless it's a course I happen to be very familiar with, how am I to know any better?

Point being, I don't think you can truly "see" the distance on tv, so I'm not sure that it's much of a draw for the average viewer.


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#136 fillwelix

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:48 AM

View PostTgstan, on 15 November 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Funny. Announcers could tell me "that drive went 400 yards!" and unless it's a course I happen to be very familiar with, how am I to know any better?

Point being, I don't think you can truly "see" the distance on tv, so I'm not sure that it's much of a draw for the average viewer.

This begs an interesting question: why do you (or does anyone) watch golf on TV? I know I watch it to see the drama, see great shots, to see the players I know play golf. I don't think anyone pulls up the broadcast to "see some wicked drives bruh" so why is that what the broadcasters focus on?
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#137 bladehunter

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:58 AM

View PostUhit, on 15 November 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

View Postborker, on 15 November 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

I'm totally one to suggest this needs to be dialed back. Seeing people like Ricky rip 310 drives and the longer hitters taking ridiculous lines over trees to cut off dog-legs and such is an atrocity to these wonderful courses that were designed to test course management. Then constant short iron after short iron approaches on TV has really gotten so boring and passe to me that my viewership of golf on TV has declined dramatically. Only time I see 3i or 2i anymore is off the tee (and again 2 hundred freakin 80).

But then I see that scoring averages haven't dropped because of the distances so in the end it isn't the advantage they say it is.

Imagine Rick would rip 250 yard drives on TV, like the average young player on your home course, and the long hitters on your course become the ones, who cut off dog-legs...

...for sure, you would watch more TV...

...or play breathtaking rounds with short hitters, stitching their shots together from the middle of the fairway, with a lay up right before everything, that looks like a hazard,
to reach the green with a short chip shot, and finally make a average putt.

Yeah, this would really help the game golf to survive! :to_become_senile:


If the only goal is making money why not stripper caddies and a shot ( of vodka ) per par rule . Then a fight to the death if there's a playoff. ?   Would be a ratings bonanza !!


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#138 Uhit

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:59 AM

View PostTgstan, on 15 November 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Funny. Announcers could tell me "that drive went 400 yards!" and unless it's a course I happen to be very familiar with, how am I to know any better?

Point being, I don't think you can truly "see" the distance on tv, so I'm not sure that it's much of a draw for the average viewer.

Well, if you don´t know the distance, then it also does not matter, if it is "too long" , or a wedge, or a 2 iron for the second shot...

...because you also don´t see, and don´t know, what number is written on the club...

...the announcers could tell you everything - isn´t it?

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#139 fillwelix

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:42 AM

View PostUhit, on 15 November 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

View PostTgstan, on 15 November 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Funny. Announcers could tell me "that drive went 400 yards!" and unless it's a course I happen to be very familiar with, how am I to know any better?

Point being, I don't think you can truly "see" the distance on tv, so I'm not sure that it's much of a draw for the average viewer.

Well, if you don´t know the distance, then it also does not matter, if it is "too long" , or a wedge, or a 2 iron for the second shot...

...because you also don´t see, and don´t know, what number is written on the club...

...the announcers could tell you everything - isn´t it?
To be fair, A LOT of times, I've seen the announcers say "220 and he's hitting a 5 iron. wow." and it's Jordan with his 4 TMB that has an AD-DI. It's not all tech, the announcers absolutely jack it up.

Edit: My point is that it's so easy to see that they're jacking up the supposed distances

Edited by fillwelix, 15 November 2017 - 10:42 AM.

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#140 Tgstan

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:00 AM

View Postfillwelix, on 15 November 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

View PostTgstan, on 15 November 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Funny. Announcers could tell me "that drive went 400 yards!" and unless it's a course I happen to be very familiar with, how am I to know any better?

Point being, I don't think you can truly "see" the distance on tv, so I'm not sure that it's much of a draw for the average viewer.

This begs an interesting question: why do you (or does anyone) watch golf on TV? I know I watch it to see the drama, see great shots, to see the players I know play golf. I don't think anyone pulls up the broadcast to "see some wicked drives bruh" so why is that what the broadcasters focus on?

I completely agree. Great question.


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#141 Tgstan

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:02 AM

View PostUhit, on 15 November 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

View PostTgstan, on 15 November 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Funny. Announcers could tell me "that drive went 400 yards!" and unless it's a course I happen to be very familiar with, how am I to know any better?

Point being, I don't think you can truly "see" the distance on tv, so I'm not sure that it's much of a draw for the average viewer.

Well, if you don´t know the distance, then it also does not matter, if it is "too long" , or a wedge, or a 2 iron for the second shot...

...because you also don´t see, and don´t know, what number is written on the club...

...the announcers could tell you everything - isn´t it?

Exactly. Which is why I would favor protecting the older courses for future use. The drama and the history are my favorite aspects of being a golf fan.

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#142 Shilgy

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:52 AM

View PostDavePelz4, on 06 November 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Yesterday's final round in Vegas was interesting as on the 460 yard par 4 18th, drives were barely going 250-260 leaving players with 200+ yard approach shots.  In probably the last 4-5 groups there was only 1 player who made par.  On the first playoff hole, everyone bogied the first time around and the second there was a par, a bogey and a double.
You can look this stuff up on shot tracker. The last ten players averaged 289 off the tee. 5 pars, 3 bogeys and 2 birdies.
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#143 Shilgy

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:06 PM

View Postbladehunter, on 12 November 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

View PostBye, on 11 November 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

No one seems to have mentioned that the modern ball and equipment massively benefits the longer hitter.

There is no point going back 10 years to show that someone like Bubba is not hitting it any further. Back then there were 3 guys that would get clocked at 180+ ball speed (Buuba, Tiger and JB). Now there are 30+ guys doing it.

Everything changed over night about 15-16 years ago when the Pro V1 was introduced.

So many of the old, great courses are now to short for the tours to play.


Think about that statement.  It doesn't mean the advantage is to the longer hitter.  And it doesn't mean that fitness is the cause. If either were true the longer guys would be longer.  The truth is the shorter and medium guys are now  long and medium because of equipment.
So if the short and medium guys are longer why aren't the long guys improved? Maybe just maybe there are simply more long players on tour?  These guys out there today grew up with the new equipment and know how to max it out.
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#144 Uhit

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:12 PM

View PostTgstan, on 15 November 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

View PostUhit, on 15 November 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

View PostTgstan, on 15 November 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Funny. Announcers could tell me "that drive went 400 yards!" and unless it's a course I happen to be very familiar with, how am I to know any better?

Point being, I don't think you can truly "see" the distance on tv, so I'm not sure that it's much of a draw for the average viewer.

Well, if you don´t know the distance, then it also does not matter, if it is "too long" , or a wedge, or a 2 iron for the second shot...

...because you also don´t see, and don´t know, what number is written on the club...

...the announcers could tell you everything - isn´t it?

Exactly. Which is why I would favor protecting the older courses for future use. The drama and the history are my favorite aspects of being a golf fan.

Then try to avoid tournaments on those courses, and / or let them apply a local rule, to use distance restricted range balls...
...or let them the course setup harder, with slower fairways, more penalizing rough, and maybe even add some trees in the fairways...
...ah, and don´t forget to donate, or play these courses on a regular base.

The history is gone, and watching short shots from tee to green on the fairway, is in my opinion not as dramatic as a risky drive over a dogleg, ending in the rough, followed by a great up and down onto the green.

Sorry, but I don´t understand, why every golfer should be doomed to pay for something that wouldn´t help anyone, except of a bunch of investors.

Edited by Uhit, 15 November 2017 - 12:21 PM.


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#145 santasquatcha

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:21 PM

I agree with those saying “make it a risk/ reward decision”

-The cat is already out of the bag with the ball technology.
-I’m sure a lot of ams would not like to be using a different balls or clubs than the pros... kills a bit of marketing.

——- and yes ——. I do get bored watching driver - wedge (fairway or rough) on most par 4s.

Watching the pros hit their long irons is some of the most entertaining and humbling experiences for me personally.  Let’s get some more variety!

I do believe the courses need to make any of these changes:
-tighten fairways in landing areas to force more 3 wood / long iron tee-offs
-increase harshness or rough in key “bomber” miss areas
-hazard / bunker protection


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#146 Valtiel

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 08:30 AM

View Postborker, on 15 November 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

I'm totally one to suggest this needs to be dialed back. Seeing people like Ricky rip 310 drives and the longer hitters taking ridiculous lines over trees to cut off dog-legs and such is an atrocity to these wonderful courses that were designed to test course management. Then constant short iron after short iron approaches on TV has really gotten so boring and passe to me that my viewership of golf on TV has declined dramatically. Only time I see 3i or 2i anymore is off the tee (and again 2 hundred freakin 80).

But then I see that scoring averages haven't dropped because of the distances so in the end it isn't the advantage they say it is.

Rickie rips 300+ yards because he can swing the club 120mph. Do you think just because he is small that somehow physics does not apply to him?
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#147 PKennedy13

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 02:57 PM

I’ve recently gained a lot of distance. Personally I love it but it has given me some issues with control

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#148 llamont

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 08:21 AM

Tour pros and skilled amateur golfers have been hitting the long ball since the days of balata, Dynamic Gold driver shafts, and persimmon wood. Anybody remember watching Tiger play as a skinny amateur?  He hit the ball longer than he does now even though he is built like a small defensive back. "Smaller" stature players like Ricky and Rory hit the ball as long as they do because they are the best at what they do. Take the current ball and club technology away from them and give them toned down equipment and they will still average a country mile off the tee. It's not the equipment. The reason so many players hit it longer than generations past is because the current crop really takes to physical fitness.
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#149 bladehunter

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 09:06 AM

this circular argument is priceless....  "  tour averages havent gone up in 15 years"   "  the reason they hit it farther now is physical fitness" ....."  give them older equipment and they would still hit it a country mile"     " nobody wants to see the long hitters drive it 280.... chicks dig the longball"........    all quotes from pro distance posters...  anyone else see the gap in actual opinions on that side ?    Im out of the actual argument ...now im just wondering how the other side can have so many contradictory ideas about reality and yet still be against any dial back ?
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#150 llamont

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 11:01 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 17 November 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

this circular argument is priceless....  "  tour averages havent gone up in 15 years"   "  the reason they hit it farther now is physical fitness" ....."  give them older equipment and they would still hit it a country mile"     " nobody wants to see the long hitters drive it 280.... chicks dig the longball"........    all quotes from pro distance posters...  anyone else see the gap in actual opinions on that side ?    Im out of the actual argument ...now im just wondering how the other side can have so many contradictory ideas about reality and yet still be against any dial back ?

Contradictory ideas? How so?

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