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Thoughts on par 3 distances.


55 replies to this topic

#1 Londoner

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 04:59 PM

We have 4 par 3s. From the summer comp. Tees, accounting for uphill slope they play 200, 170, 205, 165. All well bunkered on both sides and in front. No running on to any of them. Whats your view, is this easy, about right or tough? Its a high course, often with variable, prevailing strong winds.

These distance are what they play with no wind.

Edited by Londoner, 03 November 2017 - 07:57 PM.

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#2 CMCSGolf

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 05:07 PM

This seems rather long.  I'm not that picky on par 3s, but I think pretty much every course should have one under 150 yards from the back tee.  These are almost always fun holes because birdie and double are reasonable options for every single player if it's designed right.

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#3 klebs01

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 05:26 PM

Your post is a little confusing.  Are those the actual yardage’s or how you think they play?  

Either way, I think they are a little bunched. One should play longer and one shorter to present more varied challenges. If I was setting the course up for a comp, I would try to have one play about 150 with a tucked pin and one 220 to bring a long iron shot to the round.

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#4 One_Putt_Blunder

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 05:41 PM

IMO a good course design will incorporate 3-4 completely different shots in the par 3's. Ideally one short one <145 yards, one mid iron 160-170, one long iron 180-200, and depending on terrain prevailing winds land given one 210+ is OK otherwise another mid to long iron. I have played numerous courses where I have hit +/- 1 club on all the par 3's, it is boring same as having 3 or 4 200+ yard par 3's
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#5 Loki

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 06:07 PM

How many times do I play four par 3’s at the same distance, not talking the same club distance either?  I would say about 40% of the time.  Not a real test.  You have a difference in club selection.


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#6 q-school

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 06:29 PM

What’s the total course yardage from the tees you describe?

Edited by q-school, 03 November 2017 - 06:29 PM.


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#7 disco111

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 06:29 PM

Like the op's course, we also have 4 par 3's, but they are the back bone of the course (when playing from the back tees) Hole #2 slightly down hill normally play at 177 - big bunker fronting the left half of the green and the green itself is contoured up, so everything not landing on the green falls away into the rough. In fact every par 3 has the same fall offs. But when that good old Oklahoma wind shows up, that 177 becomes 200 easy. #8 at 207 - with wind 230, #11 225 up hill - with wind a driver for most or a 3 wd for some, #13 at 225 - with wind (mostly a hard cross wind a 3 wd for the majority of players and a driver for the rest. The few big guns can still hit long irons or hibrids. Needless to say, we very rarely play from those tee's with the exception of championship rounds. The 13th also has O/B left, so that cross wind has claimed it share of angry players. Normal rounds are more like 165 / 155 / 189 / 175

Edited by disco111, 03 November 2017 - 06:31 PM.


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#8 Londoner

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 07:59 PM

 klebs01, on 03 November 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

Your post is a little confusing.  Are those the actual yardage’s or how you think they play?  

Either way, I think they are a little bunched. One should play longer and one shorter to present more varied challenges. If I was setting the course up for a comp, I would try to have one play about 150 with a tucked pin and one 220 to bring a long iron shot to the round.
How they play. Considering slope but ignoring, variable direction, wind. Thanks. OP corrected.
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#9 Medic

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:00 PM

Sounds pretty harsh OP.

My favorite local course has 4 par 3's and they really are a nice mix.
One long at around 205 or so, one still fairly long at around 185, one sort of mid to short at around 155 and one short at 120.
I like keeping track of how many over par I end up on them. Rarely will I end up even for them. But it's possible. Getting three of four GIRs on them is a nice goal. They are a nice mix of extremely difficult along with benign and easy.
Yours, OP, are just a whole lot of brutal in my measure. But the question is what's your usual score for the four? And how many GIR's?
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#10 Londoner

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:04 PM

 q-school, on 03 November 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

What's the total course yardage from the tees you describe?
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#11 Londoner

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:09 PM

 Medic, on 03 November 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Sounds pretty harsh OP.

My favorite local course has 4 par 3's and they really are a nice mix.
One long at around 205 or so, one still fairly long at around 185, one sort of mid to short at around 155 and one short at 120.
I like keeping track of how many over par I end up on them. Rarely will I end up even for them. But it's possible. Getting three of four GIRs on them is a nice goal. They are a nice mix of extremely difficult along with benign and easy.
Yours, OP, are just a whole lot of brutal in my measure. But the question is what's your usual score for the four? And how many GIR's?
Good spot. Thats the reason for my post. They àre seen as card wreckers and the yardstick for your round. GIR 2 out of 4 is a good round. Ive not kept a total but suspect my averàge to be between 2 & 3 over for them. Im currenly 14 hcap, used to be 7 and im a good long iron player. The 2s comp is always worth winning!

Edited by Londoner, 03 November 2017 - 08:12 PM.

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#12 elwhippy

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:19 PM

My clubs par 3s are 185, 137, 145 and 161. Small well guarded greens. Water on two of them. All have character and play in different directions. Recently played a 230 yard par 3 on a famous Scottish course and it was bland and simply required a lash. A par 3 should test precision. When the USGA made a 300 yard par 3 at Oakmont that was testing one thing. Power. I will take 12th at Birkdale, Postage Stamp, 5th on Sunningdale New and 10th at West Course Wentworth. Take 12 shots for the 4 holes and the beer is on me.

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#13 psunate08

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:46 PM

The Par 3s at my club are the toughest part of our course. 150 for Hole 3 with bunkers on both sides and a drop off over the back and that’s it for Par 3s on the front 9.

The 3 on the back 9 really make or break your round. #14 plays a true 210 with bunkers left and right where the right bunker is significantly below the green. #16 plays uphill around 220 with a severe back to front green. Past the pin and you’ll have a tough time two putting when the greens are running fast. #17 is 205 downhill and plays right around 195. Left of the green is a really steep slope that you cannot go down or else you have a terrible chip shot where you can’t see the green at all.

Those Par 3s on the back can really derail your round. I’m not a huge fan of them and my goal is always just to be even on the Par 3s. My course is only 6600 from the tips so it’s not long. I wish we had a few longer Par 4s and shorten one of the long Par 3s. I hit iron into all of them so it’s not too terrible but if I’m off with my long irons that day, I’m toast.

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#14 Spicoli

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 10:41 AM

Par 3s should be iron shots.  If you are hitting fairway woods off the tee, it's too long in my view.

We have five at my Nicklaus designed home course and it's a good mix of short irons, mid and long.  

As far as Par 4s, a course with all 400+ bombs away holes is boring.  I like a mix position shots, short ones that tempt you and long ones that test your approach game.



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#15 CMCSGolf

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 12:07 PM

 Spicoli, on 04 November 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

Par 3s should be iron shots.  If you are hitting fairway woods off the tee, it's too long in my view.

I respectfully disagree with this sentiment, but I completely understand where it comes from.  A lot of par 3s are designed where you have to carry the ball onto the green for it to be a good shot.  If this is a characteristic of the hole, then I agree it should not be long enough to require a wood.

That being said, if a hole has the options to run a shot onto the green, then a par 3.5 at 200-240 can be really fun.  I've never played it, but the 8th at Oakmont seems like an awesome hole where a wood that scoots to the green could be fun to watch.  Getting back to the original premise of the thread, I think the par 3s should have variety.  One where you hit a wedge and another where you hit 3 or 5 wood and run the ball on.


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#16 finleysg

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 01:00 PM

I am also an advocate for variety. No problem with long, hard par 3's. Those have been part of the game forever.

Two years ago I played a tournament where the combination of the wind and the setup resulted in my hitting a 6 iron into all five par 3's.
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#17 jdl

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:30 AM

 Londoner, on 03 November 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

We have 4 par 3s. From the summer comp. Tees, accounting for uphill slope they play 200, 170, 205, 165. All well bunkered on both sides and in front. No running on to any of them. Whats your view, is this easy, about right or tough? Its a high course, often with variable, prevailing strong winds.

These distance are what they play with no wind.

Seems about right to me since these are just about the same distances as the par 3s at my home course. They did remove the black (championship) tees at the course last year that played another 10-15 yards longer, those were pretty tough - slope of 138 IIRC.

I'd like to see one shorter par 3, just for variety's sake.

Edited by jdl, 05 November 2017 - 10:42 AM.


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#18 raynorfan1

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:53 AM

I also agree that it should be a variety. I play most of my golf at two courses, and one of them is in the 170 yard x4 category; the other has three - 120, 165, 195. Three totally different challenges.

There’s really not much intriguing about playing the same hole 4 times in a round.

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#19 thesaxemachine

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:54 AM

+1 to the round wreckers comment. I play a course fairly regularly where the par 3s are 190, 120, 210, 180. With the exception of the shorter hole all have pretty severe bunkering and/or runoffs with nowhere to miss. The short one presents challenges too. I like the variety, but the length + hole design can often make these holes absolutely punishing.
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#20 theebdk

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:24 AM

An obvious comment but I prefer variety in the par threes and frankly all of the holes on the course.  But remember, even if the distances on the par threes are similar there are other factors that should change the hole; wind, bunkers, slope of the green, size of the green, and etc.  But most importantly is the ground crew and how they change the length or the play of each hole. They can and should add variety through moving the pins lengthwise (front, back and middle) and challenge wise (like the sucker pin versus away from the hazard).  And they can change the distance at the tee box by moving the tee markers.  With those changes alone you can change the distance by maybe 3 clubs.  Oh and I forgot, if you have larger tee boxes you can move those tee markers to one side versus the other further changing the hole.  A good crew can really add a lot to a golf course.


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#21 SMcGavin1

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:44 AM

View Postdisco111, on 03 November 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

Like the op's course, we also have 4 par 3's, but they are the back bone of the course (when playing from the back tees) Hole #2 slightly down hill normally play at 177 - big bunker fronting the left half of the green and the green itself is contoured up, so everything not landing on the green falls away into the rough. In fact every par 3 has the same fall offs. But when that good old Oklahoma wind shows up, that 177 becomes 200 easy. #8 at 207 - with wind 230, #11 225 up hill - with wind a driver for most or a 3 wd for some, #13 at 225 - with wind (mostly a hard cross wind a 3 wd for the majority of players and a driver for the rest. The few big guns can still hit long irons or hibrids. Needless to say, we very rarely play from those tee's with the exception of championship rounds. The 13th also has O/B left, so that cross wind has claimed it share of angry players. Normal rounds are more like 165 / 155 / 189 / 175

Just curious... this course in OKC? It's driving me crazy that I can't think of it haha

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#22 Loki

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:48 AM

View Posttheebdk, on 07 November 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

An obvious comment but I prefer variety in the par threes and frankly all of the holes on the course.  But remember, even if the distances on the par threes are similar there are other factors that should change the hole; wind, bunkers, slope of the green, size of the green, and etc.  But most importantly is the ground crew and how they change the length or the play of each hole. They can and should add variety through moving the pins lengthwise (front, back and middle) and challenge wise (like the sucker pin versus away from the hazard).  And they can change the distance at the tee box by moving the tee markers.  With those changes alone you can change the distance by maybe 3 clubs.  Oh and I forgot, if you have larger tee boxes you can move those tee markers to one side versus the other further changing the hole.  A good crew can really add a lot to a golf course.

This is true but when you laser all the pins and they come up 2-3 yards of one another, it makes for uninteresting golf.  Maybe that's just me or maybe the courses I play at don't have inspiring crews.

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#23 rbj69

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:51 AM

That seems about right and similar to my course

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#24 Soupy1994

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 07:57 PM

172 is the magic number

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#25 teejaywhy

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:38 AM

One_Putt said it well...  a variety is best.

I will say that the true "short" has seeming become scarce with modern golf design. Replaced perhaps, by the overuse of the LONG (>200 yard) par 3.


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#26 tngolf22

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 12:55 PM

I used to play a 6700 yard course and moved out of state to a 6600 yard course.  I finally moved back to the 6300 tees because one of the par-4s is unreachable in 2 (ok I did it ONCE) and often on one of the par-3s I have to hit a driver.  If I'm on a course where there are 1 or 2 holes I can't reach in regulation because of length or if I have to hit a driver on a par 3 then I consider that too long for my enjoyment.  If it was 1 hole out of 18, that wouldn't bother me, but 2 holes which become automatic bogeys on an already challenging layout is no fun.  In the OP's example those aren't tees I would play.  I would move up a tee box.

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#27 dlygrisse

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 01:27 PM

There is no worse hole design than a long uphill par 3.  


I think good course design says you should have a variety, but is there really any hole more fun than a short downhill par 3 with a lot of trouble?  Always the best hole and most memorable hole for trash talking, betting and swings in momentum with your group.
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#28 raynorfan1

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 01:29 PM

View Postteejaywhy, on 08 November 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I will say that the true "short" has seeming become scarce with modern golf design. Replaced perhaps, by the overuse of the LONG (>200 yard) par 3.

Agree that the desire for "Championship" courses that are >7,200 yards has all but eliminated the classic short Par 3. I love tricky drop shots of ~120-140 yards.

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#29 mallrat

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 02:15 AM

I love the par 3’s at the course I work at. From the blues they measure 170, 110, 160, 205. They have a bailout area that allows you a very good shot at par except the 110 which if you miss you are almost easily looking at bogey; it’s jokingly called the shortest par 5 ever. All look different and require different clubs no matter the weather or wind. One points due N, one due E, one due S and one due W.

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#30 johnsomp

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 08:01 AM

I want to have to use all of the clubs in my bag, so I prefer 4 pars threes in the range of 120-140, 140-160, 160-180, and 180-200.  Variety is the spice of life!

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