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High School Girl Golfer in MA


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#1 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:40 PM

This story has been all over social media.
http://www.pga.com/n...urnament-denied

People blasting the MIAA (high school athletic association in MA) for her not being able to advance and take the trophy.  I personally don't have a problem with the explanation the MIAA gives in the linked article.  I think the rules should change.  None of the stories don't tell what distances these kids were playing from.  The PGA article said it was from the same tees.  I haven't seen anyone bring this issue up.  I started doing some research myself and went to the MIAA Rules Book which I will link below.  Rule 70.2 states "Female golfers participating on a boys’ team must hit from the tee box that is placed closest (yet in front of) the tee box the boys’ team is hitting from (regardless of marker color). Leagues may modify (see rule 70.1.3)."  No one says that the league modified the rule.  If they didn't then she should be DQ'd for playing the wrong set of tees.  The link is from 2011-2013 as it was the only thing I could find online.  

http://www.miaa.net/...l2017format.pdf

In all the MIAA needs to completely think their rules over or lack there of.  They are very incompetent, incomplete, and just not very good.  It is as if though golf is a non-existent sport.


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#2 wkndhack

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:59 PM

Multiple other articles said she played from the same tees.

This happened in my area. The MIAA is not particularly well liked, but is any municipal sports entity these days?

The rule needs to changed, but this has Title IX legality issues which will make finding a common sense solution difficult.

The good news she knows she won, the boys she beat know they lost, and the lowest male score showed respect by offering her the trophy that they gave him.

I believe that this will also qualify her for the girls individual tournament for the spring, even though her school does not have a girls team. Mass plays the boys season in the fall and girls in the spring.
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#3 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:09 PM

View Postwkndhack, on 27 October 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

Multiple other articles said she played from the same tees.

This happened in my area. The MIAA is not particularly well liked, but is any municipal sports entity these days?

The rule needs to changed, but this has Title IX legality issues which will make finding a common sense solution difficult.

The good news she knows she won, the boys she beat know they lost, and the lowest male score showed respect by offering her the trophy that they gave him.

I believe that this will also qualify her for the girls individual tournament for the spring, even though her school does not have a girls team. Mass plays the boys season in the fall and girls in the spring.

I don't think it has any Title IX implications at all because they offer the sport in the Spring and she is allowed to compete.

If she played from the same distance it really warrants the question of "What distances are they playing from?"  I looked at her scores on Junior Scoreboard and they are just OK with the best being a couple of 72's from 5900 yards.  Shouldn't these boy's be playing from 6400-6800 yards?  I don't think she would shoot that score playing from that yardage.

The other detail I spoke of in the original post is why was she playing from the same distance?  The MIAA rules state she was to play from one tee set forward.  If there was no accommodation from the league then she should actually be dq'd.

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#4 wkndhack

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:33 PM

Her school doesn't have a girls team, so the only way she can get into the girls individual tournament is to play on the boys team.

I would assume since the MIAA was directly involved, they changed the rule regarding the tees. It does seem unfair that she has to play the boys tees to qualify for the individual tourney, and girls playing on girls teams teams qualify on forward tees.
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#5 leezer99

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:38 PM

I'm sure she'll be on Ellen in a week or so and there will be a big to-do about it.  They'll probably even roll out some significant female golfers that supported her in the #EmilyWon twitter universe.  

Not making judgement on whether it was right or wrong.  If she played from the same tees (which every article states) as the boys then I say she won.  

Regardless, she should be proud of her achievement and the awareness this has raised.


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#6 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:51 PM

View Postwkndhack, on 27 October 2017 - 01:33 PM, said:

Her school doesn't have a girls team, so the only way she can get into the girls individual tournament is to play on the boys team.

I would assume since the MIAA was directly involved, they changed the rule regarding the tees. It does seem unfair that she has to play the boys tees to qualify for the individual tourney, and girls playing on girls teams teams qualify on forward tees.

Then she is in the girl's tournament.  Seems fair.

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#7 umassgolfer

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 02:07 PM

What's the reason for different boys and girls seasons?

I can't object to the reasoning that was presented - there are two tournaments going on simultaneously; the individual and the team competition. This was just her happening to win as she contributed to a team trying to advance to states, which she would have been able to compete in had her team qualified. Even without a girls team, she can still enter the spring girls tournament as an individual, no?

They told her before she started playing, so there was no foul play there.

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#8 heavy_hitter

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 02:28 PM

View Postumassgolfer, on 27 October 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

What's the reason for different boys and girls seasons?

I can't object to the reasoning that was presented - there are two tournaments going on simultaneously; the individual and the team competition. This was just her happening to win as she contributed to a team trying to advance to states, which she would have been able to compete in had her team qualified. Even without a girls team, she can still enter the spring girls tournament as an individual, no?

They told her before she started playing, so there was no foul play there.

It is all screwy.  If a school doesn’t have enough players (girls or boys) in Florida they can still compete in matches.  The team score is just just goes down as incomplete.  The school can still enter into district tournament and they player are able to compete for the individual places though the team goes as incomplete.  Shannon Aubert who plays for Stanford now played for The Pine School as a senior.  The school entered as a team so she could play for the individual, though she was the only female golfer at the school.  She won the state high school tournament as an individual.  Seems as though Massachusetts is behind the times with regards to how they administer the rules for their sports.

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#9 Mr. Grumpy

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 10:47 PM

MIAA really needs to clarify for sure.. But, she entered the tournament knowing she would only count toward a team score. This was not a boys and girls tournament. She was not there to score as an individual girl golfer, however her performance does mean she qualifies in the spring. I get why she played for her boys team, but as a whole did not have the score to qualify.

IMHO, MIAA's whole post season design needs a re-think....
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#10 leezer99

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 01:10 PM

She just got an invite into the AJGA Annika Invitational.

PGA.com Article


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#11 heavy_hitter

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

View Postleezer99, on 31 October 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

She just got an invite into the AJGA Annika Invitational.

PGA.com Article

The thing is, she isn't good enough to play there.

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#12 raynorfan1

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 11:00 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 27 October 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

Shouldn't these boy's be playing from 6400-6800 yards?  I don't think she would shoot that score playing from that yardage.

Most high school golf in New England is played at ~6,000 yards (often Par 70).

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#13 AdamSecrest

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 11:51 AM

Equality in sports:

In order to win, boys must beat the other boys and girls. Girls have to just beat the other girls.

In order to compete, boys must be good enough versus the other boys and girls. Girls must be good enough versus the other girls.
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#14 Parker0065

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:31 PM

Would be nice to have clarification on exactly what tee box she actually played from. Stories like this can be more political than fact at times, a lot of bs gets put out there without the entire truth posted.
If she did play from the same tees, then yes, she got ripped off and should have been given full credit for the win.

This going way way back, but in my high school we had a female on our team because there was no girls team. She played a couple years on JV and quit because she was never going to make varsity. We always finished top 3 or 4 in State so shooting 75-80 on our team wasn't going to cut it, where on most average high school teams you would be a star.
Anyhow I remember although she played on the boys team, she played from the women's tees during matches. I was just a player then and didn't give a crap about the politics of it so not sure how it would have played out if she would have been good enough to go to States with us on Varsity.

Edited by Parker0065, 07 November 2017 - 06:35 PM.


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#15 Noles

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:01 PM

View PostParker0065, on 07 November 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

Would be nice to have clarification on exactly what tee box she actually played from. Stories like this can be more political than fact at times, a lot of bs gets put out there without the entire truth posted.
If she did play from the same tees, then yes, she got ripped off and should have been given full credit for the win.

This going way way back, but in my high school we had a female on our team because there was no girls team. She played a couple years on JV and quit because she was never going to make varsity. We always finished top 3 or 4 in State so shooting 75-80 on our team wasn't going to cut it, where on most average high school teams you would be a star.
Anyhow I remember although she played on the boys team, she played from the women's tees during matches. I was just a player then and didn't give a crap about the politics of it so not sure how it would have played out if she would have been good enough to go to States with us on Varsity.
I don't really understand how she deserves to win.  Unless I have the facts wrong, there were boys competing in the individual competition and simultaneously there was a group of boys and girls who were competing in the team competition.  Some boys were competing in both but other boys and girls were only in the team portion.  So no player, boy or girl who was only in the team portion of the competition can claim the victory, even if they shot the low score.  It has nothing to do with her gender.


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#16 MyShortGameSucks

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:52 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 31 October 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 31 October 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

She just got an invite into the AJGA Annika Invitational.

PGA.com Article

The thing is, she isn't good enough to play there.

My son was at an 18 hole tourney this weekend and she was there.  She shot 84 off of 6000'yard par 71.   It was cold and the greens were surprisingly fast and tricky for the time of year but....yeah not really star AJGA stuff.  To be fair I did over hear her dad chatting to some other dad and was saying how it had all got a bit blown out of proportion and she was not bothered about not "winning" .  Hopefully this all gets forgotten soon as she seems like a nice kid..
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#17 heavy_hitter

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:28 AM

View PostMyShortGameSucks, on 07 November 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 31 October 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 31 October 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

She just got an invite into the AJGA Annika Invitational.

PGA.com Article

The thing is, she isn't good enough to play there.

My son was at an 18 hole tourney this weekend and she was there.  She shot 84 off of 6000'yard par 71.   It was cold and the greens were surprisingly fast and tricky for the time of year but....yeah not really star AJGA stuff.  To be fair I did over hear her dad chatting to some other dad and was saying how it had all got a bit blown out of proportion and she was not bothered about not "winning" .  Hopefully this all gets forgotten soon as she seems like a nice kid..

It was blown out of proportion for political nonsense.  My daughter laughed and said "She didn't deserve to win.  It was clearly written in the rules."  At the end of the day rules are in place to be followed.  This girl is only allowed to play so the boys can have a team.  It is what it is, accept it and move on.  She still has a girls season.

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#18 MyShortGameSucks

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 12:51 PM

Agreed re the politicking.   As I say I think/hope it will all be done and forgotten news soon.
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#19 Sean2

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:23 PM

View PostMyShortGameSucks, on 07 November 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 31 October 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 31 October 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

She just got an invite into the AJGA Annika Invitational.

PGA.com Article

The thing is, she isn't good enough to play there.

My son was at an 18 hole tourney this weekend and she was there.  She shot 84 off of 6000'yard par 71.   It was cold and the greens were surprisingly fast and tricky for the time of year but....yeah not really star AJGA stuff.  To be fair I did over hear her dad chatting to some other dad and was saying how it had all got a bit blown out of proportion and she was not bothered about not "winning" .  Hopefully this all gets forgotten soon as she seems like a nice kid..

Yes. She also said that she new the rules going in, so wasn't upset about it. And the fellow who "won" offered her the trophy. One of my best friends is her instructor. Annika called her personally to invite her to play in her invitational. Had Emily been given the trophy I doubt that would have happened. Emily showed a lot of class and she is reaping some rewards for doing so. She might not have received the trophy, but in the long run I think she is coming out well ahead.
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#20 rollerd11

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:24 PM

If she played from the same tees there should be no issue, she won, but if she played from different tees there should be another "division" or title.

View PostSean2, on 08 November 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

View PostMyShortGameSucks, on 07 November 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 31 October 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 31 October 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

She just got an invite into the AJGA Annika Invitational.

PGA.com Article

The thing is, she isn't good enough to play there.

My son was at an 18 hole tourney this weekend and she was there.  She shot 84 off of 6000'yard par 71.   It was cold and the greens were surprisingly fast and tricky for the time of year but....yeah not really star AJGA stuff.  To be fair I did over hear her dad chatting to some other dad and was saying how it had all got a bit blown out of proportion and she was not bothered about not "winning" .  Hopefully this all gets forgotten soon as she seems like a nice kid..

Yes. She also said that she new the rules going in, so wasn't upset about it. And the fellow who "won" offered her the trophy. One of my best friends is her instructor. Annika called her personally to invite her to play in her invitational. Had Emily been given the trophy I doubt that would have happened. Emily showed a lot of class and she is reaping some rewards for doing so. She might not have received the trophy, but in the long run I think she is coming out well ahead.

Great part of this story for sure.


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#21 TheShaun

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:56 PM

Good on the young man trying to give her the trophy.

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