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How many practice rounds?


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#31 tiger1873

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:22 PM

The real question is not winning at a early age but when do the kids actually peak.

A kid who wins at 6 may be able to play well compared to other 6 year olds but at the same time the other kids there competeing angainst may not be developing as fast or working on other aspects of there game.

A kid who can drive 180 yards at 9 may not be able to drive 300 yards at 15 or 16. To me it is more of a question where they peak in the end and no one can answer that.

The other thing is I would bet the majority  college or professional athletes stated to play when they were under  9 or 10 and showed some sort of ability by then.


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#32 tiger1873

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:26 PM

I should also add the kids who win at a younger age are probably only focusing on winning and therefore never develop what is needed and get left behind at some point especially in golf.

A lot kids who I see in tournaments wining have a hard time getting out of trouble or taking risk when they need to and simply never practice those hard shots that are needed to win at a higher level.

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#33 heavy_hitter

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:29 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 18 October 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 18 October 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

https://www.forbes.c...r/#67c3d2e91fcd

Success and winning at an early age tells us nothing about talent.  I can go on and on.

I am not arguing that a child winning at an early age guarantees success later.  At successively higher levels of competition there are fewer and fewer participants who ultimately 'make it'.

We are trying to understand whether winning at an early age increases the odds of winning at a later one (vs if the same child did not win early).  

If the probability of playing a Division 1 sport is only 5-10% among all high school athletes, we are trying to understand whether that probability is higher for kids who achieved success at an early age.  I would guess the probability would be significantly higher, but again there is no way to prove it because an individual child only lives one life (cannot do both 'winning early' and 'not winning early').

One exercise that would be instructive would be to calculate what % of current college and pro athletes achieved success (among those who participated) at an early age.  I have not seen any such study but I would guess that % would be very high relative to the overall population.

Such results would most likely demonstrate that, while winning early doesn't guarantee success, it may be an indication of higher probability of future success, and vice versa.

Bingo.

I can rephrase the general statement I made as well.

A kids failures early on in a sport will not determine his successes or failures later on.

I can show you kids/adults that were very successful at this game early on that didn’t pan out.  It isn’t the successes of a person, it is the talent.  Success and gives you something to build on but it can only be built on if their is talent.  

A kid that wins US Kids Locals in Mississippi shooting 100 isn’t going to build on that success.  He is still shooting 100.  That doesn’t mean he doesn’t work real hard and doesn’t have the talent to make it.  He can still make it and winning early on had nothing to do with it.

Winning and success makes everyone feel good.  Doing it at 7 means little to nothing to what the future holds for them.  The only thing that matters is pure talent.  A 7 year old can win everything at 7.  He hits a growth spurt and may never hit the golf ball the same again.

Love that your kid enjoys playing.  Revel in it.  That is the only thing you can take away.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 18 October 2017 - 03:41 PM.


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#34 heavy_hitter

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:37 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 18 October 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 18 October 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:


LOL!!!!  You crack me up.

https://www.scienced...70723105832.htm

I guess they are foolish as well.  I can link several more of the same as there is article after article out there that states the same thing but even in more detail.

I also think it's fair to consider that not all sports are equal when trying to determine an age when one could accurately predict future success.

Certain sports are less dependent on brute physical force, which the article seems to stress in its citing a study of 'Track and Field' athletes (arguably the sport most dependent on 'innate' physical giftedness, which of course would only be known after complete maturation).

I would lump Golf into the pile of 'skill' sports that are less dependent on differing levels of maturation and sheer physicality (Track/Football/Basketball) that can change a junior athlete's trajectory dramatically.

While this is true, growth and maturation can probably effect o golfer more negatively than any other sport.  Have seen great golfers early on then they hit that growth spurt at puberty and can’t hit a golf ball anymore.  Something happens physically and mentally to where they just aren’t the same.

You also have the kid that is stellar at a younger age then becomes Afraid of Failure.  They have lofty expectations from parents, family, friends and they can’t handle it.

I have said 1000’s of times....

You can’t teach someone to throw 90 mph in baseball.

You cant teach someone to run a 4.3 40.

You can’t teach someone to hit a golf ball 300 yards.

Those are raw God given talents.  At the end of the day talent will determine ones success.

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#35 CTgolf

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:40 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 18 October 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

I should also add the kids who win at a younger age are probably only focusing on winning and therefore never develop what is needed and get left behind at some point especially in golf.

A lot kids who I see in tournaments wining have a hard time getting out of trouble or taking risk when they need to and simply never practice those hard shots that are needed to win at a higher level.

In our limited anecdotal experience, I have noticed that kids who won at 6 and 7yo *primarily because* they had superior putting/short game (but lacked consistenly superior technique in full shots) typically are only middle of the pack by 10-11yo.

Meanwhile the kids with the better swings (but with less polished short games) didn't win early, but are winning as they get older and their putting/chipping catch up to the others.

Admittedly I am not as familiar with junior golf levels above the age of 12yo.


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#36 Noles

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 05:10 PM

I'm not going to read the article but I will guarantee it has nothing to do with what I said or the post I was responding to.  We went through this last year when we went back and forth about high school girls basketball.  You make these crazy blanket statements.  They are completely black and white leaving no room for any gray area and then when I call you on that you respond with an argument that is different than the point I was making.

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#37 Noles

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 05:14 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 18 October 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

View PostNoles, on 18 October 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 17 October 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 17 October 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

I think for some younger (let’s say <10yo) kids, playing well in a tournament can be a tremendous confidence boost and help develop a true love of the game and competitive spirit, so that they ultimately strive to be the best they can be (maximizing potential).

Not every child is naturally resilient, and some may initially get discouraged easily if they don’t play well.

If playing a practice round helps the child finish at or near the top it could be the difference between a kid going down a path to a successful (subjective and specific to each individual) junior golf ‘career’ and getting turned off (or at least not turned on) to the sport.

Some parents may know this about their children and are doing all they can to help them get the bug.

It means absolutely nothing for a kid that hasn’t matured and reached puberty yet.
Just curious, what is the "it" in your reply?

Winning and playing well does nothing at an early age to produce winning and a love for the game at an older age.
To think that success in any endeavor does not increase the likelihood that that person, child or adult, would want to pursue the endeavor further is just plain dumb.  

Now notice that I did not say that it means they will be more talented or guarantee great success, which is probably the response that you will give and link some article that to that point...a point I am not making.

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#38 heavy_hitter

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 07:27 PM

View PostNoles, on 18 October 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 18 October 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

View PostNoles, on 18 October 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 17 October 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 17 October 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

I think for some younger (let’s say <10yo) kids, playing well in a tournament can be a tremendous confidence boost and help develop a true love of the game and competitive spirit, so that they ultimately strive to be the best they can be (maximizing potential).

Not every child is naturally resilient, and some may initially get discouraged easily if they don’t play well.

If playing a practice round helps the child finish at or near the top it could be the difference between a kid going down a path to a successful (subjective and specific to each individual) junior golf ‘career’ and getting turned off (or at least not turned on) to the sport.

Some parents may know this about their children and are doing all they can to help them get the bug.

It means absolutely nothing for a kid that hasn’t matured and reached puberty yet.
Just curious, what is the "it" in your reply?

Winning and playing well does nothing at an early age to produce winning and a love for the game at an older age.
To think that success in any endeavor does not increase the likelihood that that person, child or adult, would want to pursue the endeavor further is just plain dumb.  

Now notice that I did not say that it means they will be more talented or guarantee great success, which is probably the response that you will give and link some article that to that point...a point I am not making.

So no one can have an opinion other than yours or they are foolish or make blanket statements ?  You have added absolutely nothing to this thread as you really add nothing to any thread in these forums.   Honestly don’t care if you agree with me.  My feelings and I will stick by it as well as have the resources to back my stance up.  Not a blanket statement.

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#39 Noles

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:38 PM

So I thought l'd read this article out of curiosity.  This article is about sports specialization at a young age.  Who said anything about that?  This is my point.  You throw some article about a study that has nothing to do with the point of the post you are replying to, or the thread in general and offer it up as some kind of counterpoint.  Anyone that can read can see that it makes no sense.  We were talking about how kids having a little bit of success in a tournament can lead to wanting to stay involved in the sport, and that was offered up as a reason to play a practice round.  You post a link to an article about a study on sports specialization?  Huh? As if this has anything to do with or refute the point that was being made. Stop being a troll.

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#40 tiger1873

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:38 PM

View PostNoles, on 18 October 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 18 October 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

View PostNoles, on 18 October 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 17 October 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 17 October 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

I think for some younger (lets say <10yo) kids, playing well in a tournament can be a tremendous confidence boost and help develop a true love of the game and competitive spirit, so that they ultimately strive to be the best they can be (maximizing potential).

Not every child is naturally resilient, and some may initially get discouraged easily if they dont play well.

If playing a practice round helps the child finish at or near the top it could be the difference between a kid going down a path to a successful (subjective and specific to each individual) junior golf career and getting turned off (or at least not turned on) to the sport.

Some parents may know this about their children and are doing all they can to help them get the bug.

It means absolutely nothing for a kid that hasnt matured and reached puberty yet.
Just curious, what is the "it" in your reply?

Winning and playing well does nothing at an early age to produce winning and a love for the game at an older age.
To think that success in any endeavor does not increase the likelihood that that person, child or adult, would want to pursue the endeavor further is just plain dumb.  

Now notice that I did not say that it means they will be more talented or guarantee great success, which is probably the response that you will give and link some article that to that point...a point I am not making.

The problem is the kids who must win at a early age actually end up hating the sport because they do not win when they get older.

With golf even the best players in the world lose more tournaments then they win. some of the best players in the golf never win majors but are very successful.

To win at a high level you need talent, worth ethic and to some extend some luck so things go your way.


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#41 Noles

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:53 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 18 October 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:



The problem is the kids who must win at a early age actually end up hating the sport because they do not win when they get older.

With golf even the best players in the world lose more tournaments then they win. some of the best players in the golf never win majors but are very successful.

To win at a high level you need talent, worth ethic and to some extend some luck so things go your way.
As for the first sentence, I would agree that this is true in some cases, but not always.  Realize that I never said anything about winning, I said success.  That can mean something different to every person.  Success could mean breaking 50 for 9 holes or just getting a medal, or not 3 putting for 9 holes.

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#42 kcap

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:14 AM

Interesting thread that is covering a lot of different topics.  Will give my take on a couple.

Practice Rounds for Local tournaments --  Overkill, some kids do it in our tour and don't think it has really helped the kids.  We have done some practice rounds prior to states and regional tournaments.  It is helpful but still not sure if it really saved us strokes.  There is definitely a plus about  knowing what to expect as well club selections on the par threes etc.  I would never do it for local US Kids tournaments  but other --possibly.  At the end of day, it boils down to what he wants,in a recent regional tournament, he did not want a practice round but preferred to work on something at the range.

What does success at a young age mean ?  "Nothing" and "Everything"   1.  Success as a 10 yr old does not mean you will succeed at 21.  That said, what matters is why you succeeded? Also what you define as success.   Seen plenty of kids doing well but just because they have been playing for 4 yrs  i.e. 3 yrs more than my son. and they just know how to play the game.  If you have always succeeded than I can guarantee that it will not pan not in the long term.  

However,  nothing motivates some one to work harder than a little bit of success.  This is our second year on the tour (and I feel like a veteran) but i remember the first time he broke 50, his next goal was come in the top 5, then it was get ranked in a stacked field, then it was win but each time he was willing to work hard and wanted to get better.  The desire to get better comes from small successes.   Hopefully he keeps working hard and yes his growth spurt might mean that he cant hit the ball as a 15 yr old but at least he has learnt at the ripe old age of 10 that working hard will make you better..not the best or a pro but just better!  BTW: seen the same mentality in other sports, plays hockey, scored a couple of goals but feels he is missing on a bunch because of a weak shot, wants to take lessons and improve his shot.  I can't wait for him to score a bunch, does that he mean he will forget the Tour for the NHL?  No way!

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#43 heavy_hitter

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:17 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 18 October 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

\

The problem is the kids who must win at a early age actually end up hating the sport because they do not win when they get older.

With golf even the best players in the world lose more tournaments then they win. some of the best players in the golf never win majors but are very successful.

To win at a high level you need talent, worth ethic and to some extend some luck so things go your way.

Just block him dude.  I did.   He is incapable of having a cordial conversation.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 19 October 2017 - 09:22 AM.


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#44 Noles

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 07:25 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 19 October 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 18 October 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

\

The problem is the kids who must win at a early age actually end up hating the sport because they do not win when they get older.

With golf even the best players in the world lose more tournaments then they win. some of the best players in the golf never win majors but are very successful.

To win at a high level you need talent, worth ethic and to some extend some luck so things go your way.

Just block him dude.  I did.   He is incapable of having a cordial conversation.
I should put up a screenshot of the list of posts of mine that Heavy Hitter has liked.

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#45 Noles

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 07:44 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 19 October 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 18 October 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

\

The problem is the kids who must win at a early age actually end up hating the sport because they do not win when they get older.

With golf even the best players in the world lose more tournaments then they win. some of the best players in the golf never win majors but are very successful.

To win at a high level you need talent, worth ethic and to some extend some luck so things go your way.

Just block him dude.  I did.   He is incapable of having a cordial conversation.
I did try to send you an apology, but it was not able send since you blocked me.


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#46 wildcatden

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 07:49 PM

I don't take my 6 year old out for practice rounds for USKG Local, Regional or State tournaments. Practice rounds at 6, 7, or 8?  To get local knowledge?  The only thing my kid is worried about after these tournaments is playing "putting games" with friends/new friends at the tournament.

Perhaps I would do practice rounds at Worlds but that is just because a trip to the East Coast is going to be a large endeavor anyway so might as well go early and play.
When my kid played in the California State tourney this summer at Swenson in Stockton, I did my caddie job beforehand and googled the course. I also did a little studying of Google Maps and looked at some photos of the holes I could find.  I've done the same thing for Monterey next weekend.

Edited by wildcatden, 28 October 2017 - 07:59 PM.


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#47 leezer99

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 09:07 PM

View Postwildcatden, on 28 October 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

I don't take my 6 year old out for practice rounds for USKG Local, Regional or State tournaments. Practice rounds at 6, 7, or 8?  To get local knowledge?  The only thing my kid is worried about after these tournaments is playing "putting games" with friends/new friends at the tournament.

Perhaps I would do practice rounds at Worlds but that is just because a trip to the East Coast is going to be a large endeavor anyway so might as well go early and play.
When my kid played in the California State tourney this summer at Swenson in Stockton, I did my caddie job beforehand and googled the course. I also did a little studying of Google Maps and looked at some photos of the holes I could find.  I've done the same thing for Monterey next weekend.

Try using bluegolf next time instead of Google.  Much easier to manage than trying to use Google Maps.  Swenson Hole 1

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#48 wildcatden

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 09:18 PM

View Postleezer99, on 28 October 2017 - 09:07 PM, said:

View Postwildcatden, on 28 October 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

I don't take my 6 year old out for practice rounds for USKG Local, Regional or State tournaments. Practice rounds at 6, 7, or 8?  To get local knowledge?  The only thing my kid is worried about after these tournaments is playing "putting games" with friends/new friends at the tournament.

Perhaps I would do practice rounds at Worlds but that is just because a trip to the East Coast is going to be a large endeavor anyway so might as well go early and play.
When my kid played in the California State tourney this summer at Swenson in Stockton, I did my caddie job beforehand and googled the course. I also did a little studying of Google Maps and looked at some photos of the holes I could find.  I've done the same thing for Monterey next weekend.

Try using bluegolf next time instead of Google.  Much easier to manage than trying to use Google Maps.  Swenson Hole 1

Thanks, that's a nice site.

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