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Trackman Fitting Results (718, MP18, Epic Pro, iBlade, PXG)


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#1 TNReb

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:16 AM

If anyone wants a reference, here's a bit about me...

36 years old
1 handicap when I'm playing my best (0.4 currently - lowest I've ever been).
3 handicap when I'm not.
I play 95% of my rounds at the same course.  My home course doesn't require a lot of full iron shots, so 6 and 7 irons are not the strength of my game.  
I probably play 75 rounds a year.

----

With that being said...

Yesterday I spent some time working with Curtis Leggett at Sea Island Performance Center.

https://www.seaislan...r/club-fitting/

It's a 20 hour round trip drive for me, but this is the 4th time I have been.  I have worked with Craig Allan twice before, and this was my second time working with Curtis.  Both guys are fantastic.  I wouldn't be making such a long trip if I didn't believe they were some of the best in the nation at what they do.  To me, buying a set of irons is a pretty big investment and I want to know that I'm working with guys who really know their stuff.  Curtis works with Davis Love III and Zach Johnson - I just hit balls and hope I don't scare him off.

I was there to be fitted for a new set of irons.
My current irons are 716 AP2 with Nippon Modus3 Tour 130 shafts.

I told Curtis I had a few irons in mind that I wanted to try - the 718 MB & CB and the Mizuno MP 18 & SC.
I told him to just hand me clubs and don't tell me anything about the shafts.  I didn't want any preconceived notions of mine affecting anything.

Right away we found that we were chasing my 716 AP2 spin numbers.  Everything else I tried was spinning considerably more.

In the chart below, you can see Mizuno still does their fittings with 6 irons, so you can't really compare apples to oranges.  

TrackMan.JPG

General thoughts...

I've never been a fan of the feel of KBS shafts.  I love the feel of my Nippon 130 - but have never tried any other Nippon shafts.
Titleist and Mizuno had not sent them the Nippon shafts yet - which was sort of aggravating - but not Sea Island's fault.

The comments below are in the order that I tested the clubs.

I didn't put it in the chart, but average attack angle was -7.7.

Titleist 718 AP3 - These were the first irons Curtis recommended because they're generally a lower spinning head and he knew the CB and MB would spin a lot for me.  He was right - they had less spin than most other irons we tried.  I just didn't like the look of these.  They are larger than my 716 AP2 and I don't like clubs that are real big.  This was in my head and I simply didn't make solid contact with them.  I hit it lower and lost yardage due to toe shots, fat shots, etc.  Bad swings = bad results.  


Titleist 718 CB - Before the AP2 irons, I played a set of MB/CB combos.  I was familiar with this club look and it suits my eye.  However, I simply couldn't put a very good swing on the ball.  I had a little nerves at first - pressure to hit good shots.  I hit the ball much higher with these and lost distance.  


Titleist 718 MB - Curtis said these would spin too much, and he was right.  I was starting to loosen up and my swing speed was increasing a little bit.  The KBS Tour felt ok to me - it actually felt like some of the smoothest shots I hit all day.  However, the spin was too high and the peak ball height was a good bit higher.  Despite the fact that the shots felt smooth, the smash factor was down from my AP2 and the ball speed wasn't there.  The C-Taper shafts felt rough to me.  I didn't like their look and made bad swings.


Mizuno MP18 Blade - Note - this is where I was testing with a 6 irons.  The Mizuno were standard lie, which is about 1-2 degrees flatter than I prefer.  This was bothering me.  I couldn't make solid contact and we didn't spend much time here.  I liked the look of the club - but it was pretty quickly obvious that they were not going to be optimal for me.  


Mizuno MP18 SC - Also a 6 iron.  Lower spinning than the blade, but ball contact was still poor and we moved on.


Ping iBlade - I've never played Ping irons, so the look was a little different than I'm used to.  They felt good - but the spin was still too high.  Moving on...


Callaway Epic Pro - These clubs were different than anything I'm used to.  The top lines seemed thicker (similar to the AP3) and they felt a little clicky.  To me, feel is influenced by sound and these had a different sound than a forged Titleist or Mizuno.  However, the numbers were better.  Spin was a little lower and my smash factor was back where it should be.  I was glad to finally get to try a Nippon shaft - and I liked the feel of it. It just felt smoother for my swing than the KBS shafts.  When it was all said and done, these were the ones Curtis recommended.  


PXG 0311T - These clubs fit my eye.  The offset, top-line, everything. The clubs felt pretty smooth to me with the Nippon shaft.  Ball speed was nearly identical to my AP2.  The spin was still on the high side.  This cost me about 2.5 yards carry distance.  The KBS Tour V shaft had less spin but didn't feel as smooth - I felt like I had to work harder to feel the shaft kick/load and this resluted in worse swings with slighly slower ball speeds.



Final Thoughts...

I stopped at the PGA Superstore in Atlanta on the way home to look at the entire set of Callaway Epic Pros.  No bueno.  I simply didn't like the look of the set.  Too "big" for my eye.  

The PXG 0311T and the Titleist MB/CB fit my eye the best.  I really wonder what the MB/CB would do with the Nippon 120 shaft.  
I also wonder if the PXG with Nippon 120 shaft is playable, or if I would find too much spin in playing conditions.  I am tempted to pull the trigger on them because they provided respectable numbers and fit my eye best.  

In the end, my 716 AP2 and very playable and nothing really beat them.  I'm simply not crazy about the look of the shorter irons.  I don't carry the AP2 pitching wedge - and the 8 & 9 irons feel like they have no "precision".  



Pardon my rambling... hopefully someone will find this helpful.

Edited by TNReb, 12 October 2017 - 10:22 AM.


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#2 Underdog1924

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:40 AM

Any chance to hit the 718 AP2?  Going from the 716s to 718 might be the best of both worlds.
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#3 cliffhanger

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:45 AM

Are these numbers the best shot of each or do they represent an average? If they are an average... how many shots do they represent? I would think in this case... a more apples to apples comparison would be all with the same shaft, flex, length, lie. Even still... nice write up.
Driver pending...
3 wood pending...
hybrid/ 5 wood pending...
driving iron (3) pending...
Titleist 714 AP2 irons 4-GW set 2 deg flat with DG S300 shafts
Vokey 54deg M grind SM5 wedge set 2 deg flat with DG wedge flex shaft
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#4 TNReb

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:48 AM

View PostUnderdog1924, on 12 October 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

Any chance to hit the 718 AP2?  Going from the 716s to 718 might be the best of both worlds.

Didn't even try them.

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#5 TNReb

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:51 AM

View Postcliffhanger, on 12 October 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

Are these numbers the best shot of each or do they represent an average? If they are an average... how many shots do they represent? I would think in this case... a more apples to apples comparison would be all with the same shaft, flex, length, lie. Even still... nice write up.

These are an average of "normal shots" - with real bad ones thrown out (complete chunks, really thin shots, etc).  There's probably about 5-8 shots in each group.

You are correct that a more apples-to-apples comparison would be same shaft, flex, length, lie, etc - but this was a fitting session - trying to find what works with the equipment the manufacturers send to the fitters.


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#6 cliffhanger

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:55 AM

View PostTNReb, on 12 October 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

View Postcliffhanger, on 12 October 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

Are these numbers the best shot of each or do they represent an average? If they are an average... how many shots do they represent? I would think in this case... a more apples to apples comparison would be all with the same shaft, flex, length, lie. Even still... nice write up.

These are an average of "normal shots" - with real bad ones thrown out (complete chunks, really thin shots, etc).  There's probably about 5-8 shots in each group.

You are correct that a more apples-to-apples comparison would be same shaft, flex, length, lie, etc - but this was a fitting session - trying to find what works with the equipment the manufacturers send to the fitters.
I would bet it will be hard to get away from the Modus 130x... too bad that shaft and flex will be very hard to find in most if not all fitting carts.
Driver pending...
3 wood pending...
hybrid/ 5 wood pending...
driving iron (3) pending...
Titleist 714 AP2 irons 4-GW set 2 deg flat with DG S300 shafts
Vokey 54deg M grind SM5 wedge set 2 deg flat with DG wedge flex shaft
Cameron Futura X7M 36" counterbalanced
Calloway Chrome soft

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#7 jcg132

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:04 PM

Fwiw, I game the 0311Ts with Modus 120S. Really like them. Definitely lost a few yards over my previous set up (Apexs with TT Dynalite Gold XP bent 2* strong), but am hitting and holding more greens. Feel is fantastic also.
Callaway GBB Epic 8° - Oban Devotion 6 04 (44.5", Animal Style)
Callaway GBB Epic 14.5° - Fujikura ATMOS Tour Spec Blue 7 Stiff (42.5", D3)
Callaway Big Bertha OS 18° - Project X HZRDUS Black Hybrid 85 6.0
Callaway Epic 22° - Graphite Design Tour AD DI Hybrid 85 Stiff
PXG 0311T 5-PW - Nippon N.S. PRO Modus3 Tour 120 Stiff (+0.5", 1.0° Strong, 2.0° Upright)
Vokey SM6 Raw 50.08°F - Nippon N.S. PRO Modus3 Tour 120 Stiff (+0.5", 1.0° Upright)
Vokey SM6 55.09°S - Nippon N.S. PRO Modus3 Tour 120 Regular (+0.5", 1.0° Upright)
Vokey SM6 60.08°M - Nippon N.S. PRO Modus3 Tour 120 Regular (+0.5", 0.5° Upright)
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#8 TNReb

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:49 PM

View Postjcg132, on 12 October 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

Fwiw, I game the 0311Ts with Modus 120S. Really like them. Definitely lost a few yards over my previous set up (Apexs with TT Dynalite Gold XP bent 2* strong), but am hitting and holding more greens. Feel is fantastic also.

Thanks for the feedback.

I actually found a local PXG fitter out of a club that's 30 minutes from me.  I emailed him and told him where i lived and asked if he happen to have a set I could stop in and look at.  Turns out he lives 15 minutes from me and he offered to come by my house.  He was nice enough to bring a 4, 7, and PW to my house today and let me hit them (I live on the golf course).  Very cool of him to do that.  

I wasn't warmed up or anything, and I only hit about 10 shots - but the clubs looked good to me.  I was really happy to get to see what the long and short irons look like.

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#9 NerdyMe

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:15 PM

I'm surprised you didn't like the SC's from Mizuno.

I'm still new to golf, so I'm not 100% sure about the finer points, but from a statistics perspective, it looks like the shaft appears to have had a greater impact on the ball data than the club heads.  Did the different shafts feel as different as the outcome?

Just curious.

I just got through a fitting, and I went with Modus shafts with the MP-18 SC, PW-3 iron.  I don't hit quite as far as you, so maybe the speed has something to do with the feel.  My Carry on a 7 iron is only about 165.

Heck, I haven't broke Eighty yet, so maybe I'm too new to talk about this stuff.

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#10 jbsg02

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:30 PM

Almost a 100 mph with a 7 iron?  You should be hitting that thing like 190, that's a lot of speed


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#11 santasquatcha

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:58 PM

I play 712CBs with Modus 120S shafts.

Best combo of look at address, sound at impact, and feel with the Nippons.

I agree with you, KBS shafts are very clunky feeling compared to the nippons.

Good luck with finding a new set of clubs, from the fitting data it doesn't look like anything whipped your AP2s to the garage..
Mini-Driver, Taylormade Aeroburner,14*, Matrix 60g S
4h - 5h, Adams Tech V4.0, S
6 - PW, Titleist 712CB, modus120S
GW, 49*, Adams Tech V4.0, S
GW, 51*, Cleveland 588
SW, 56-11*, Titleist Vokey SM4
LW, 60-07*, Titleist Vokey SM4
Putter, Odyssey White Hot #6

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#12 Wardonation

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:05 AM

View PostTNReb, on 12 October 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

If anyone wants a reference, here's a bit about me...

36 years old
1 handicap when I'm playing my best (0.4 currently - lowest I've ever been).
3 handicap when I'm not.
I play 95% of my rounds at the same course.  My home course doesn't require a lot of full iron shots, so 6 and 7 irons are not the strength of my game.  
I probably play 75 rounds a year.

----

With that being said...

Yesterday I spent some time working with Curtis Leggett at Sea Island Performance Center.

https://www.seaislan...r/club-fitting/

It's a 20 hour round trip drive for me, but this is the 4th time I have been.  I have worked with Craig Allan twice before, and this was my second time working with Curtis.  Both guys are fantastic.  I wouldn't be making such a long trip if I didn't believe they were some of the best in the nation at what they do.  To me, buying a set of irons is a pretty big investment and I want to know that I'm working with guys who really know their stuff.  Curtis works with Davis Love III and Zach Johnson - I just hit balls and hope I don't scare him off.

I was there to be fitted for a new set of irons.
My current irons are 716 AP2 with Nippon Modus3 Tour 130 shafts.

I told Curtis I had a few irons in mind that I wanted to try - the 718 MB & CB and the Mizuno MP 18 & SC.
I told him to just hand me clubs and don't tell me anything about the shafts.  I didn't want any preconceived notions of mine affecting anything.

Right away we found that we were chasing my 716 AP2 spin numbers.  Everything else I tried was spinning considerably more.

In the chart below, you can see Mizuno still does their fittings with 6 irons, so you can't really compare apples to oranges.  

Attachment TrackMan.JPG

General thoughts...

I've never been a fan of the feel of KBS shafts.  I love the feel of my Nippon 130 - but have never tried any other Nippon shafts.
Titleist and Mizuno had not sent them the Nippon shafts yet - which was sort of aggravating - but not Sea Island's fault.

The comments below are in the order that I tested the clubs.

I didn't put it in the chart, but average attack angle was -7.7.

Titleist 718 AP3 - These were the first irons Curtis recommended because they're generally a lower spinning head and he knew the CB and MB would spin a lot for me.  He was right - they had less spin than most other irons we tried.  I just didn't like the look of these.  They are larger than my 716 AP2 and I don't like clubs that are real big.  This was in my head and I simply didn't make solid contact with them.  I hit it lower and lost yardage due to toe shots, fat shots, etc.  Bad swings = bad results.  


Titleist 718 CB - Before the AP2 irons, I played a set of MB/CB combos.  I was familiar with this club look and it suits my eye.  However, I simply couldn't put a very good swing on the ball.  I had a little nerves at first - pressure to hit good shots.  I hit the ball much higher with these and lost distance.  


Titleist 718 MB - Curtis said these would spin too much, and he was right.  I was starting to loosen up and my swing speed was increasing a little bit.  The KBS Tour felt ok to me - it actually felt like some of the smoothest shots I hit all day.  However, the spin was too high and the peak ball height was a good bit higher.  Despite the fact that the shots felt smooth, the smash factor was down from my AP2 and the ball speed wasn't there.  The C-Taper shafts felt rough to me.  I didn't like their look and made bad swings.


Mizuno MP18 Blade - Note - this is where I was testing with a 6 irons.  The Mizuno were standard lie, which is about 1-2 degrees flatter than I prefer.  This was bothering me.  I couldn't make solid contact and we didn't spend much time here.  I liked the look of the club - but it was pretty quickly obvious that they were not going to be optimal for me.  


Mizuno MP18 SC - Also a 6 iron.  Lower spinning than the blade, but ball contact was still poor and we moved on.


Ping iBlade - I've never played Ping irons, so the look was a little different than I'm used to.  They felt good - but the spin was still too high.  Moving on...


Callaway Epic Pro - These clubs were different than anything I'm used to.  The top lines seemed thicker (similar to the AP3) and they felt a little clicky.  To me, feel is influenced by sound and these had a different sound than a forged Titleist or Mizuno.  However, the numbers were better.  Spin was a little lower and my smash factor was back where it should be.  I was glad to finally get to try a Nippon shaft - and I liked the feel of it. It just felt smoother for my swing than the KBS shafts.  When it was all said and done, these were the ones Curtis recommended.  


PXG 0311T - These clubs fit my eye.  The offset, top-line, everything. The clubs felt pretty smooth to me with the Nippon shaft.  Ball speed was nearly identical to my AP2.  The spin was still on the high side.  This cost me about 2.5 yards carry distance.  The KBS Tour V shaft had less spin but didn't feel as smooth - I felt like I had to work harder to feel the shaft kick/load and this resluted in worse swings with slighly slower ball speeds.



Final Thoughts...

I stopped at the PGA Superstore in Atlanta on the way home to look at the entire set of Callaway Epic Pros.  No bueno.  I simply didn't like the look of the set.  Too "big" for my eye.  

The PXG 0311T and the Titleist MB/CB fit my eye the best.  I really wonder what the MB/CB would do with the Nippon 120 shaft.  
I also wonder if the PXG with Nippon 120 shaft is playable, or if I would find too much spin in playing conditions.  I am tempted to pull the trigger on them because they provided respectable numbers and fit my eye best.  

In the end, my 716 AP2 and very playable and nothing really beat them.  I'm simply not crazy about the look of the shorter irons.  I don't carry the AP2 pitching wedge - and the 8 & 9 irons feel like they have no "precision".  



Pardon my rambling... hopefully someone will find this helpful.
I play the PXG T with 120 X ss x1. Great combo... May I ask your driver SS? Mine is 108. I do not spin my combo enough.

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#13 phatchrisrules

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 09:16 AM

View PostTNReb, on 12 October 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

If anyone wants a reference, here's a bit about me...

36 years old
1 handicap when I'm playing my best (0.4 currently - lowest I've ever been).
3 handicap when I'm not.
I play 95% of my rounds at the same course.  My home course doesn't require a lot of full iron shots, so 6 and 7 irons are not the strength of my game.  
I probably play 75 rounds a year.

----

With that being said...

Yesterday I spent some time working with Curtis Leggett at Sea Island Performance Center.

https://www.seaislan...r/club-fitting/

It's a 20 hour round trip drive for me, but this is the 4th time I have been.  I have worked with Craig Allan twice before, and this was my second time working with Curtis.  Both guys are fantastic.  I wouldn't be making such a long trip if I didn't believe they were some of the best in the nation at what they do.  To me, buying a set of irons is a pretty big investment and I want to know that I'm working with guys who really know their stuff.  Curtis works with Davis Love III and Zach Johnson - I just hit balls and hope I don't scare him off.

I was there to be fitted for a new set of irons.
My current irons are 716 AP2 with Nippon Modus3 Tour 130 shafts.

I told Curtis I had a few irons in mind that I wanted to try - the 718 MB & CB and the Mizuno MP 18 & SC.
I told him to just hand me clubs and don't tell me anything about the shafts.  I didn't want any preconceived notions of mine affecting anything.

Right away we found that we were chasing my 716 AP2 spin numbers.  Everything else I tried was spinning considerably more.

In the chart below, you can see Mizuno still does their fittings with 6 irons, so you can't really compare apples to oranges.  

Attachment TrackMan.JPG

General thoughts...

I've never been a fan of the feel of KBS shafts.  I love the feel of my Nippon 130 - but have never tried any other Nippon shafts.
Titleist and Mizuno had not sent them the Nippon shafts yet - which was sort of aggravating - but not Sea Island's fault.

The comments below are in the order that I tested the clubs.

I didn't put it in the chart, but average attack angle was -7.7.

Titleist 718 AP3 - These were the first irons Curtis recommended because they're generally a lower spinning head and he knew the CB and MB would spin a lot for me.  He was right - they had less spin than most other irons we tried.  I just didn't like the look of these.  They are larger than my 716 AP2 and I don't like clubs that are real big.  This was in my head and I simply didn't make solid contact with them.  I hit it lower and lost yardage due to toe shots, fat shots, etc.  Bad swings = bad results.  


Titleist 718 CB - Before the AP2 irons, I played a set of MB/CB combos.  I was familiar with this club look and it suits my eye.  However, I simply couldn't put a very good swing on the ball.  I had a little nerves at first - pressure to hit good shots.  I hit the ball much higher with these and lost distance.  


Titleist 718 MB - Curtis said these would spin too much, and he was right.  I was starting to loosen up and my swing speed was increasing a little bit.  The KBS Tour felt ok to me - it actually felt like some of the smoothest shots I hit all day.  However, the spin was too high and the peak ball height was a good bit higher.  Despite the fact that the shots felt smooth, the smash factor was down from my AP2 and the ball speed wasn't there.  The C-Taper shafts felt rough to me.  I didn't like their look and made bad swings.


Mizuno MP18 Blade - Note - this is where I was testing with a 6 irons.  The Mizuno were standard lie, which is about 1-2 degrees flatter than I prefer.  This was bothering me.  I couldn't make solid contact and we didn't spend much time here.  I liked the look of the club - but it was pretty quickly obvious that they were not going to be optimal for me.  


Mizuno MP18 SC - Also a 6 iron.  Lower spinning than the blade, but ball contact was still poor and we moved on.


Ping iBlade - I've never played Ping irons, so the look was a little different than I'm used to.  They felt good - but the spin was still too high.  Moving on...


Callaway Epic Pro - These clubs were different than anything I'm used to.  The top lines seemed thicker (similar to the AP3) and they felt a little clicky.  To me, feel is influenced by sound and these had a different sound than a forged Titleist or Mizuno.  However, the numbers were better.  Spin was a little lower and my smash factor was back where it should be.  I was glad to finally get to try a Nippon shaft - and I liked the feel of it. It just felt smoother for my swing than the KBS shafts.  When it was all said and done, these were the ones Curtis recommended.  


PXG 0311T - These clubs fit my eye.  The offset, top-line, everything. The clubs felt pretty smooth to me with the Nippon shaft.  Ball speed was nearly identical to my AP2.  The spin was still on the high side.  This cost me about 2.5 yards carry distance.  The KBS Tour V shaft had less spin but didn't feel as smooth - I felt like I had to work harder to feel the shaft kick/load and this resluted in worse swings with slighly slower ball speeds.



Final Thoughts...

I stopped at the PGA Superstore in Atlanta on the way home to look at the entire set of Callaway Epic Pros.  No bueno.  I simply didn't like the look of the set.  Too "big" for my eye.  

The PXG 0311T and the Titleist MB/CB fit my eye the best.  I really wonder what the MB/CB would do with the Nippon 120 shaft.  
I also wonder if the PXG with Nippon 120 shaft is playable, or if I would find too much spin in playing conditions.  I am tempted to pull the trigger on them because they provided respectable numbers and fit my eye best.  

In the end, my 716 AP2 and very playable and nothing really beat them.  I'm simply not crazy about the look of the shorter irons.  I don't carry the AP2 pitching wedge - and the 8 & 9 irons feel like they have no "precision".  



Pardon my rambling... hopefully someone will find this helpful.

Curious why the iBlade was thrown out so easily?  You said you liked the feel and look of it, you had the second highest ball speed with (highest of the 7i) and the fastest swing speed with the Tour-V in it.  Sure it spun a bit more than the rest but it also launched 2* lower than most of the other clubs, so that has a negating effect on the spin.  

However, the MB w/ KBS Tour was really close behind it.  If you like the look and feel of it, it appears to be a really solid option for you, coming in only 1y behind the iBlade.

Also, spin is your friend when you are launching it that low.
G30 LS Tec
Taylormade R15 TP
Nike Vapor Flex
Adams 9031 Proto
Mizuno JPX900 Forged 6-PW
Miura 50*
Engage Toe Sweep 55* and Dual Sole 60*
Bettinardi Inovai

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#14 TNReb

TNReb

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 10:07 AM

View Postphatchrisrules, on 14 October 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

Curious why the iBlade was thrown out so easily?  You said you liked the feel and look of it

I didnít say I liked the look of it. I said the look was different than Iím used to. It wasnít horrible, but it was my choice to stop trying it - not the fiitters. I have never hit a Ping iron I liked - I dont know if itís a mental thing or what.

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