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Game Golf/Arccos legal?


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#1 darter79

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?


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#2 Belmont148

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:38 AM

It is my understanding that game golf is legal for tracking stats. And other apps that just track stats/score are legal. You just can't use GG Live by using your phone or Apple Watch as it gives you course info. Not sure on Arccos since you have to have your phone live in your pocket. Maybe as long as you don't look at it. Personally I don't see what the big deal is even if they use the phone. These events aren't on the level of AJGA or other state JGA events so I don't really see the point in banning them if kids want to see the layout of the course. Could help speed up play so folks are constantly walking ahead to check out the blind shots.

We used our watch at the last two events as I asked the director if it was legal, and they said yes. But going by USGA rules it is not. I just go with what the director tells us until they say you can't use them.
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#3 leezer99

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:39 AM

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?

USGA and the R&A allow these in tournament play without using the app.

http://assistly-prod...-type=image/png

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#4 darter79

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:40 AM

View Postleezer99, on 10 October 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?

USGA and the R&A allow these in tournament play without using the app.

http://assistly-prod...-type=image/png

Yes but does anyone know if us Kids has a rule making these illegal

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#5 leezer99

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:44 AM

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 10 October 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?

USGA and the R&A allow these in tournament play without using the app.

http://assistly-prod...-type=image/png

Yes but does anyone know if us Kids has a rule making these illegal

In every email we get from our tournament director prior to each tournament are the local rules and #1 is always: USGA Rules Govern All Play


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#6 heavy_hitter

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:10 AM

We have used Game Golf in US Kids.

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#7 darter79

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:59 AM

any advise on how to handle this with the tournment director?

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#8 tiger1873

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 12:36 PM

Not sure what the tour director is thinking. How are they going to monitor all the devices without banning every smartphone and checking every laser finder?

Everyone has a smart phone and I do not see how game golf causes any issues.  I see people using smartphone gps apps all the time. The pro's on tour have much better information then these apps could ever have. If you ever seen a yardage book you would know what I am talking about.


Most kids tournaments are 1 day events that some kids have never played before.  The app in question is just a different way of writing down stats.  Plenty of people do similar type of things just they write it down in a book.

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#9 heavy_hitter

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 12:53 PM

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

any advise on how to handle this with the tournment director?

I would call or email corporate.  I have talked to and have emailed in the past.  They are very helpful and friendly.  Your Tournament Director may not know what Game Golf is.  As long as you don't have the phone out it is legal.

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Edited by heavy_hitter, 10 October 2017 - 12:53 PM.


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#10 md1m

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 11:56 AM

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?

And why is this an issue? Haven't used those apps, so trying to figure out how this would give a junior an advantage

Clubs are fluid

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#11 heavy_hitter

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:18 PM

View Postmd1m, on 11 October 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?

And why is this an issue? Haven't used those apps, so trying to figure out how this would give a junior an advantage

Game Golf is a GPS system.  There is a marker you screw into the end of your club and tap the device to mark the club you are using.  You can’t use the app on the phone until after the round.  There is no advantage on the course.  The advantages are after the round looking at stats and looking at the insights.  The insights give you personalized detail what part of the game you are losing strokes from.

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#12 darter79

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:00 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 11 October 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postmd1m, on 11 October 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?

And why is this an issue? Haven't used those apps, so trying to figure out how this would give a junior an advantage

Game Golf is a GPS system.  There is a marker you screw into the end of your club and tap the device to mark the club you are using.  You can’t use the app on the phone until after the round.  There is no advantage on the course.  The advantages are after the round looking at stats and looking at the insights.  The insights give you personalized detail what part of the game you are losing strokes from.

Some of them will suggest clubs in their app give you wind evaluation ect. What makes the app illegal. I did reach out to customer service they confirmed it is legal.

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#13 heavy_hitter

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:46 PM

View Postdarter79, on 11 October 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 11 October 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postmd1m, on 11 October 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?

And why is this an issue? Haven't used those apps, so trying to figure out how this would give a junior an advantage

Game Golf is a GPS system.  There is a marker you screw into the end of your club and tap the device to mark the club you are using.  You can’t use the app on the phone until after the round.  There is no advantage on the course.  The advantages are after the round looking at stats and looking at the insights.  The insights give you personalized detail what part of the game you are losing strokes from.

Some of them will suggest clubs in their app give you wind evaluation ect. What makes the app illegal. I did reach out to customer service they confirmed it is legal.

But you can’t use the app in a tourney round.

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#14 leezer99

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:16 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 11 October 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 11 October 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 11 October 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

View Postmd1m, on 11 October 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

View Postdarter79, on 10 October 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I reached out to our local tour director (his first season) and he told me these deviced were against the rules in US Kids tournments, have any of you used these during tournaments? Anyone have any insight on this or how to approch it?

And why is this an issue? Haven't used those apps, so trying to figure out how this would give a junior an advantage

Game Golf is a GPS system.  There is a marker you screw into the end of your club and tap the device to mark the club you are using.  You can’t use the app on the phone until after the round.  There is no advantage on the course.  The advantages are after the round looking at stats and looking at the insights.  The insights give you personalized detail what part of the game you are losing strokes from.

Some of them will suggest clubs in their app give you wind evaluation ect. What makes the app illegal. I did reach out to customer service they confirmed it is legal.

But you can’t use the app in a tourney round.

Rule 14-3... can't use a device that would assist in making a specific stroke.  It's not just the Game Golf app that can assist by helping you pick the right club but also things like weather apps, music apps, etc.  Using a device that measures distance is still not allowed but a local rule can be implemented that allows you to use things like range finders or golf specific gps units like a GolfBuddy.  This rule is also why you can't listen to music through headphones during your round because it can ease tension or assist in swing tempo.

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#15 tiger1873

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:13 PM

View Postleezer99, on 11 October 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:


Rule 14-3... can't use a device that would assist in making a specific stroke.  It's not just the Game Golf app that can assist by helping you pick the right club but also things like weather apps, music apps, etc.  Using a device that measures distance is still not allowed but a local rule can be implemented that allows you to use things like range finders or golf specific gps units like a GolfBuddy.  This rule is also why you can't listen to music through headphones during your round because it can ease tension or assist in swing tempo.

Unless You play in the PGA or LPGA they will have adopted the local rule allowing devices.  I would find another place to play that refused to adopt it as a local rule nowdays.   Even the pro's use yardage books that has much more detail then the average person will have.   I wish I could get a book with putting breaks like they have would make life a lot easier.

Also how is anyone really going to stop people from using apps on their phone at a lot of junior tournaments. People today all have smartphones and it very rare to not see parents checking their phones for messages and email. If they looked at apps I doubt anyone would notice if they didn't say anything.

My guess is a lot people are doing things that break 14-3 but will never be called out on it.


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#16 heavy_hitter

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:32 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 11 October 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 11 October 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Rule 14-3... can't use a device that would assist in making a specific stroke.  It's not just the Game Golf app that can assist by helping you pick the right club but also things like weather apps, music apps, etc.  Using a device that measures distance is still not allowed but a local rule can be implemented that allows you to use things like range finders or golf specific gps units like a GolfBuddy.  This rule is also why you can't listen to music through headphones during your round because it can ease tension or assist in swing tempo.

Unless You play in the PGA or LPGA they will have adopted the local rule allowing devices.  I would find another place to play that refused to adopt it as a local rule nowdays.   Even the pro's use yardage books that has much more detail then the average person will have.   I wish I could get a book with putting breaks like they have would make life a lot easier.

Also how is anyone really going to stop people from using apps on their phone at a lot of junior tournaments. People today all have smartphones and it very rare to not see parents checking their phones for messages and email. If they looked at apps I doubt anyone would notice if they didn't say anything.

My guess is a lot people are doing things that break 14-3 but will never be called out on it.

I have only encountered a parent in a US Kids event using a phone once.  I looked at him and told him to put it away.  He gave me this look and said "Just answering emails."  I told him to go to the clubhouse and answer emails or your kid is going to be DQ'd.  He put the phone away while giving me a look.

Rules are rules.  You have to call them on it.

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#17 tiger1873

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:39 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 12 October 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 11 October 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 11 October 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Rule 14-3... can't use a device that would assist in making a specific stroke.  It's not just the Game Golf app that can assist by helping you pick the right club but also things like weather apps, music apps, etc.  Using a device that measures distance is still not allowed but a local rule can be implemented that allows you to use things like range finders or golf specific gps units like a GolfBuddy.  This rule is also why you can't listen to music through headphones during your round because it can ease tension or assist in swing tempo.

Unless You play in the PGA or LPGA they will have adopted the local rule allowing devices.  I would find another place to play that refused to adopt it as a local rule nowdays.   Even the pro's use yardage books that has much more detail then the average person will have.   I wish I could get a book with putting breaks like they have would make life a lot easier.

Also how is anyone really going to stop people from using apps on their phone at a lot of junior tournaments. People today all have smartphones and it very rare to not see parents checking their phones for messages and email. If they looked at apps I doubt anyone would notice if they didn't say anything.

My guess is a lot people are doing things that break 14-3 but will never be called out on it.

I have only encountered a parent in a US Kids event using a phone once.  I looked at him and told him to put it away.  He gave me this look and said "Just answering emails."  I told him to go to the clubhouse and answer emails or your kid is going to be DQ'd.  He put the phone away while giving me a look.

Rules are rules.  You have to call them on it.

Just looking at your phone is not breaking a rule.  Only if you use certain apps or software on a device is angainst the rules.  So unless you can prove an app is on the phone and being used during the round there not going to get DQ.

Technically someone can use a device with functions that are not allowed if there turned off. So if a person uses a rangefinder with slope and has the feature turned off there is nothing wrong with it.
I agree it has no place there but the rules allow for them.


I think your better off concentrating on your game  then worrying about a device someone is using because they can usually turn off those features very quickly and you would never know or could prove it.

I would also never call anyone out on using a phone even if I suspected they were using an illegal app. I doubt it go anywhere around here because they mention you can use smartphones and other devises and to make sure they confirm to usga rules.

I also don't think it really matters anyways too much info hurts as much as helps.

Edited by tiger1873, 12 October 2017 - 09:46 AM.


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#18 heavy_hitter

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:43 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 12 October 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 12 October 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 11 October 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 11 October 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Rule 14-3... can't use a device that would assist in making a specific stroke.  It's not just the Game Golf app that can assist by helping you pick the right club but also things like weather apps, music apps, etc.  Using a device that measures distance is still not allowed but a local rule can be implemented that allows you to use things like range finders or golf specific gps units like a GolfBuddy.  This rule is also why you can't listen to music through headphones during your round because it can ease tension or assist in swing tempo.

Unless You play in the PGA or LPGA they will have adopted the local rule allowing devices.  I would find another place to play that refused to adopt it as a local rule nowdays.   Even the pro's use yardage books that has much more detail then the average person will have.   I wish I could get a book with putting breaks like they have would make life a lot easier.

Also how is anyone really going to stop people from using apps on their phone at a lot of junior tournaments. People today all have smartphones and it very rare to not see parents checking their phones for messages and email. If they looked at apps I doubt anyone would notice if they didn't say anything.

My guess is a lot people are doing things that break 14-3 but will never be called out on it.

I have only encountered a parent in a US Kids event using a phone once.  I looked at him and told him to put it away.  He gave me this look and said "Just answering emails."  I told him to go to the clubhouse and answer emails or your kid is going to be DQ'd.  He put the phone away while giving me a look.

Rules are rules.  You have to call them on it.

Just looking at your phone is not breaking a rule.  Only if you use certain apps or software on a device is angainst the rules.  So unless you can prove an app is on the phone and being used during the round there not going to get DQ.

Technically someone can use a device with functions that are not allowed if there turned off. So if a person uses a rangefinder with slope and has the feature turned off there is nothing wrong with it.
I agree it has no place there but the rules allow for them.


I think your better off concentrating on your game  then worrying about a device someone is using because they can usually turn off those features very quickly and you would never know or could prove it.

I would also never call anyone out on using a phone even if I suspected they were using an illegal app. I doubt it go anywhere around here because they mention you can use smartphones and other devises and to make sure they confirm to usga rules.

I also don't think it really matters anyways too much info hurts as much as helps.

US Kids Rules.  Our local always goes over this rule before the start of a match.

Electronic Devices: Cell phones, headphones, cameras, and the like may not be used during play. You may use a cell phone to call for medical help at any time during the event.
  • First offense: Warning
  • Second offense: Disqualification.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 12 October 2017 - 10:44 AM.


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#19 tiger1873

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:16 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 12 October 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 12 October 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 12 October 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

View Posttiger1873, on 11 October 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postleezer99, on 11 October 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

Rule 14-3... can't use a device that would assist in making a specific stroke.  It's not just the Game Golf app that can assist by helping you pick the right club but also things like weather apps, music apps, etc.  Using a device that measures distance is still not allowed but a local rule can be implemented that allows you to use things like range finders or golf specific gps units like a GolfBuddy.  This rule is also why you can't listen to music through headphones during your round because it can ease tension or assist in swing tempo.

Unless You play in the PGA or LPGA they will have adopted the local rule allowing devices.  I would find another place to play that refused to adopt it as a local rule nowdays.   Even the pro's use yardage books that has much more detail then the average person will have.   I wish I could get a book with putting breaks like they have would make life a lot easier.

Also how is anyone really going to stop people from using apps on their phone at a lot of junior tournaments. People today all have smartphones and it very rare to not see parents checking their phones for messages and email. If they looked at apps I doubt anyone would notice if they didn't say anything.

My guess is a lot people are doing things that break 14-3 but will never be called out on it.

I have only encountered a parent in a US Kids event using a phone once.  I looked at him and told him to put it away.  He gave me this look and said "Just answering emails."  I told him to go to the clubhouse and answer emails or your kid is going to be DQ'd.  He put the phone away while giving me a look.

Rules are rules.  You have to call them on it.

Just looking at your phone is not breaking a rule.  Only if you use certain apps or software on a device is angainst the rules.  So unless you can prove an app is on the phone and being used during the round there not going to get DQ.

Technically someone can use a device with functions that are not allowed if there turned off. So if a person uses a rangefinder with slope and has the feature turned off there is nothing wrong with it.
I agree it has no place there but the rules allow for them.


I think your better off concentrating on your game  then worrying about a device someone is using because they can usually turn off those features very quickly and you would never know or could prove it.

I would also never call anyone out on using a phone even if I suspected they were using an illegal app. I doubt it go anywhere around here because they mention you can use smartphones and other devises and to make sure they confirm to usga rules.

I also don't think it really matters anyways too much info hurts as much as helps.

US Kids Rules.  Our local always goes over this rule before the start of a match.

Electronic Devices: Cell phones, headphones, cameras, and the like may not be used during play. You may use a cell phone to call for medical help at any time during the event.
  • First offense: Warning
  • Second offense: Disqualification.


Ok that is different haven't played  US kids in a long time so don't remember this rule but most other tournaments allow this sort of thing. Around here we have a lot dad's in tech jobs and may be on call sometimes so they need access to their devices.

If that is the rule I would just avoid everything except a laser finder.  I know why they have this rule as I have seen Dad's who will video tape the round an that get annoying.  But in this day and age it's more of a reason to avoid playing in their tournaments.

Edited by tiger1873, 12 October 2017 - 12:17 PM.


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#20 Circaflex

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:37 PM

Arccos has a tournament legal app that restricts much of the function during play. It will track your shots, but that's about it until after the round. No wind info, no caddie option, no recommended club, no previous shots shown, etc.


edit, its not a separate app anymore, my mistake. The option is built into the newest app, you click player, then settings, then tournament mode.

Edited by Circaflex, 12 October 2017 - 12:43 PM.

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#21 heavy_hitter

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:17 PM

At the age my son is at now, I avoid tournaments I have to caddie.  The Associations he plays in do not allow cell phones on the course by the players.  Parents don't matter at that point because they are on the sideline.

You should move to Florida.  Texas seems crazy for parents and golf events.

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#22 heavy_hitter

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:18 PM

View PostCircaflex, on 12 October 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

Arccos has a tournament legal app that restricts much of the function during play. It will track your shots, but that's about it until after the round. No wind info, no caddie option, no recommended club, no previous shots shown, etc.


edit, its not a separate app anymore, my mistake. The option is built into the newest app, you click player, then settings, then tournament mode.

The problem is, at least in Florida, they will not allow cell phones to be out during play.  I don't believe in USGA events that they allow cell phones either.

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#23 tiger1873

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:39 PM

Like I said we have a lot tech employees in the area  but another concern is weather can change very quickly in North Texas. If the weather is iffy everyone checks their phones for storms.  

I know there was a local ruling change recently but there is still lots of grey areas when it comes to technology on the course.  My personal thought is if you wrote it down and put it in a book then a electronic device is no different. If courses provided better yardage markers and sold yard books you would't need anything else to play including laser finders.

But your correct in saying Texas can be different when it comes to tournaments. People here have a lot disposable income so It's not just golf but every sport here is ultra competitive.  Golf believe it or not is pretty tame.

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#24 darter79

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 10:49 AM

Got an update form US Kids. They are now sayings it is illegal per their headquarters.  See email response below

After much thought and consulting with multiple USKG staff members and Head of Rules, here at US Kids Golf, we have decided not to allow the GameGolf technology during tournament rounds. In other words you may use the tag in your clubs, but the reader cannot be with you during play. The app also may not be used during play. When the new revisions of the rules get released, we will do a thorough job of updating our hard card for the 2019 Spring Tour Season.

Thanks,


Drew Felton
U.S. Kids Golf Foundation
3040 Northwoods Parkway
Norcross, GA 30071

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#25 heavy_hitter

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 01:11 PM

View Postdarter79, on 17 October 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Got an update form US Kids. They are now sayings it is illegal per their headquarters.  See email response below

After much thought and consulting with multiple USKG staff members and Head of Rules, here at US Kids Golf, we have decided not to allow the GameGolf technology during tournament rounds. In other words you may use the tag in your clubs, but the reader cannot be with you during play. The app also may not be used during play. When the new revisions of the rules get released, we will do a thorough job of updating our hard card for the 2019 Spring Tour Season.

Thanks,


Drew Felton
U.S. Kids Golf Foundation
3040 Northwoods Parkway
Norcross, GA 30071

Did you ask why?  How does using a tag on the end of a club and tapping it to a device give anyone a competitive advantage?

Hard to believe that they would make this decision considering you can use the device for AJGA and USGA events.

I know someone at Game Golf and am going to contact them about this.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 17 October 2017 - 01:11 PM.


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#26 tiger1873

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 07:16 PM

Something is wrong if they don't allow it. How is this different then having someone write there stats in a book.  I haven't used the system but still keep track of a lot stats manually.

People use advanced gps watches that do similar things and I doubt they ban that. I wouldn't be surprised if This technology gets built into clubs one of these days.

Edited by tiger1873, 17 October 2017 - 07:18 PM.


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#27 heavy_hitter

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 05:07 AM

View Postdarter79, on 17 October 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Got an update form US Kids. They are now sayings it is illegal per their headquarters.  See email response below

After much thought and consulting with multiple USKG staff members and Head of Rules, here at US Kids Golf, we have decided not to allow the GameGolf technology during tournament rounds. In other words you may use the tag in your clubs, but the reader cannot be with you during play. The app also may not be used during play. When the new revisions of the rules get released, we will do a thorough job of updating our hard card for the 2019 Spring Tour Season.

Thanks,


Drew Felton
U.S. Kids Golf Foundation
3040 Northwoods Parkway
Norcross, GA 30071

Darter, send this link back to US Kids.  USGA as well as the R&A have deemed it legal for play.

http://support.gameg...play-?b_id=7220

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#28 heavy_hitter

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 11:24 AM

Darter...  Just got this in an email after I emailed Drew.


After talking to our rules official you can use the tag and have the reader with you as long as you do not access any information, at any point, or any round. Meaning the app CANNOT be accessed.

Thanks,

Drew Felton
U.S. Kids Golf Foundation
3040 Northwoods Parkway
Norcross, GA 30071

Edited by heavy_hitter, 18 October 2017 - 01:25 PM.


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