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Backstopping needs to be stopped


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#1 OldTomMorris

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:52 AM

http://www.golfchann...eeds-be-stopped

I'm surprised by the number of people that find this acceptable. Personally I don't like and I suspect most golfers who have been playing the game for years will not be comfortable with this. I might be completely misreading the mood on this but it doesn't feel right to me.

The excuses from the players are weak. see Justin Thomas' response on Twitter to Will Gray of the Golf Channel.
https://twitter.com/...159329450651649

Again, I may be wrong but I imagine most of the more "senior" players on tour wont like this.

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:4147288]

Edited by OldTomMorris, 10 October 2017 - 02:22 AM.


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#2 mjen43

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:22 AM

From my understanding, the player has a right to mark his ball before the player next up hits. This would invalidate JTs response and makes him look like an uninformed moron. It does appear there is either some sort of collusion/unwritten rule thing going on, or players are too buddy-buddy to enforce their right to mark (which would result in a DQ of the offending party and some hurt feelings).

Edited by mjen43, 10 October 2017 - 02:26 AM.


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#3 Golfingfanatic

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:48 AM

Hitting a ball from a plugged lie is pretty difficult if you ask me. Seems like a bit of an over-reaction to me.
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#4 OldTomMorris

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:53 AM

View PostGolfingfanatic, on 10 October 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

Hitting a ball from a plugged lie is pretty difficult if you ask me. Seems like a bit of an over-reaction to me.

With respect, in my opinion the degree of difficulty of the shot is irrelevant. The proximity of his playing partner's ball to the hole is the relevant factor.

I have seen this type of thing happen on a more regular basis in recent times, whereas in the past it was extremely rare for a player not to mark his ball when it was in close proximity to the hole.

OK this incident is getting more traction as Finau actually hit the other ball and he was in a position to potentially win the tournament.

Edited by OldTomMorris, 10 October 2017 - 03:00 AM.


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#5 slimeone

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:59 AM

If you are skilled enough to deliberately hit another player's ball from a bunker, why not just hole out? The hole is a bigger target. Also why would players collude on this? If your ball gets knocked you could end up with a much worse putt or even get bumped off the green.


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#6 augustgolf

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:22 AM

The Finau situation occurred because the other player (Kokrak, I believe) pitched to the green and hadn't had time yet to mark his ball, as Finau was ready to play from the bunker.

I think for collusion to occur, the two of them had to agree to the arrangement of leaving the ball in place while the bunker shot was played, and there is no indication that happened.

FWIW - you give Finau 25 balls from the bunker with the lie that he had, and I doubt that none of those would have hit the ball like the one he played during the tournament.

Let it go...the ricochet could well have gone many different directions. I know that "these guys are good" but not good enough to repeatedly hit another ball by the hole from a buried lie in a bunker.
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#7 OldTomMorris

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:56 AM

View Postslimeone, on 10 October 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

If your ball gets knocked you could end up with a much worse putt or even get bumped off the green.

Under the rules of golf the "knocked" ball will always be replaced

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#8 MattyO1984

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 05:22 AM

Hours and hours spent on here and this is the first time I have ever heard of "backstopping".

Am I the only one?
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#9 reqq

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 05:34 AM

https://twitter.com/...665174834061312

https://twitter.com/...972755239038976

https://twitter.com/...009814291165185

https://twitter.com/...783148382281728

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#10 tannyhoban

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 05:41 AM

You want them to play faster, right?


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#11 slimeone

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 05:47 AM

View PostOldTomMorris, on 10 October 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

View Postslimeone, on 10 October 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

If your ball gets knocked you could end up with a much worse putt or even get bumped off the green.

Under the rules of golf the "knocked" ball will always be replaced
That makes sense now that I think about it.

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#12 Valtiel

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 05:56 AM

Such a pathetic non issue that is only being discussed because it almost came close to impacting a tournament, which means it had yet to do so until now.
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#13 No Catchy Nickname

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:02 AM

Could Finau even see the ball from the bunker? From the short Twitter link, it looked like he couldn't see over the lip.
And if he is that good he can hit a ball from a plugged lie, why doesn't he hit the flag and give himself a chance of holing out.

Edited by No Catchy Nickname, 10 October 2017 - 06:02 AM.

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#14 OldTomMorris

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:21 AM

View Postreqq, on 10 October 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:


Exactly, it almost never happened years ago with shots from around the green.

As I said I've noticed it becoming more prevalent in recent times and clearly I'm not the only one.

Edited by OldTomMorris, 10 October 2017 - 06:25 AM.


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#15 OldTomMorris

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:25 AM

View Posttannyhoban, on 10 October 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

You want them to play faster, right?

Yes but they must continue to protect the field, its not a binary choice.


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#16 OldTomMorris

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:30 AM

View PostNo Catchy Nickname, on 10 October 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

Could Finau even see the ball from the bunker? From the short Twitter link, it looked like he couldn't see over the lip.
And if he is that good he can hit a ball from a plugged lie, why doesn't he hit the flag and give himself a chance of holing out.

With respect your logic is flawed, if the ball was marked which up until recently almost all players did this almost 100% of the time he would only have the pin to hit and every player in the field would have the same option if they found themselves in a similar position. With the ball unmarked there are two potential backstops and the ball is only present for him.

He has an advantage but there is no guarantee he will be able to make use of that advantage but it exists.

Edited by OldTomMorris, 10 October 2017 - 06:31 AM.


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#17 cwglum

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:36 AM

View PostNo Catchy Nickname, on 10 October 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

Could Finau even see the ball from the bunker? From the short Twitter link, it looked like he couldn't see over the lip.
And if he is that good he can hit a ball from a plugged lie, why doesn't he hit the flag and give himself a chance of holing out.

He may not have been able to see it from his stance but I'd be shocked if he wasn't aware of the general vicinity of the ball at rest, knowing it wasn't marked and could stop his plugged lie screamer in the slim chance it happened to hit it.

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#18 rafal

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:51 AM

JT should just play golf, whenever he voices his opinion he doesn't usually come across as particularly wise.
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#19 DancingShadows

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:55 AM

View PostOldTomMorris, on 10 October 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

View PostNo Catchy Nickname, on 10 October 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

Could Finau even see the ball from the bunker? From the short Twitter link, it looked like he couldn't see over the lip.
And if he is that good he can hit a ball from a plugged lie, why doesn't he hit the flag and give himself a chance of holing out.

With respect your logic is flawed, if the ball was marked which up until recently almost all players did this almost 100% of the time he would only have the pin to hit and every player in the field would have the same option if they found themselves in a similar position. With the ball unmarked there are two potential backstops and the ball is only present for him.

He has an advantage but there is no guarantee he will be able to make use of that advantage but it exists.

Totally agree. Even saw a HS golf coach on twitter defending it. Just completely against the spirit of the game imo.

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#20 DancingShadows

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:57 AM

View Postrafal, on 10 October 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

JT should just play golf, whenever he voices his opinion he doesn't usually come across as particularly wise.

Kind of like the way this sounds? He's a 24 year old kid, how intelligent did you sound on a national podium at that age? Oh wait that's right....


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#21 jpt1101

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:59 AM

I can't believe more people don't think this is an issue. Clearly there is an unspoken agreement among players to collude on this, a loophole that allows them to circumvent a rule in place to prevent this from happening. Clearly Finau is not aiming for the ball, but its presence gives him an advantage over someone in a similar position on the course whose playing partner is not near the hole. I don't see how anyone can't see this as an advantage. There should be a level playing field for all, among things that can be controlled. And this is something that can be controlled.

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#22 bladehunter

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:03 AM

Such a non issue.  Literally dumber than talking about what pants Ian poulter  is wearihg .... no way on the planet anyone is hitting a ball on the green on purpose.  Why not just hole it if this is so ?

Edited by bladehunter, 10 October 2017 - 07:04 AM.

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#23 jpt1101

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:10 AM

View Postbladehunter, on 10 October 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Such a non issue.  Literally dumber than talking about what pants Ian poulter  is wearihg .... no way on the planet anyone is hitting a ball on the green on purpose.  Why not just hole it if this is so ?

I don't think this issue is that hard to understand. I don't believe anyone is actually aiming for the ball, but it's mere presence gives the player an advantage by acting as a potential, additional backstop.

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#24 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:12 AM

Lucky break for Finau.

To curb "backstopping", where do you draw the line?  If someone is greenside then balls have to be marked?  10 yards off? 20? 100?

I really can see where people see it as a problem (although I don't think it happens enough to be an issue), just don't know to regulate it.
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#25 bladehunter

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:13 AM

View Postjpt1101, on 10 October 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 10 October 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Such a non issue.  Literally dumber than talking about what pants Ian poulter  is wearihg .... no way on the planet anyone is hitting a ball on the green on purpose.  Why not just hole it if this is so ?

I don't think this issue is that hard to understand. I don't believe anyone is actually aiming for the ball, but it's mere presence gives the player an advantage by acting as a potential, additional backstop.

I just don't see it.  And I play a lot of serious rounds.  If anything it would distract me.  No way I see it as help.  I'm certain it's just groups trying to stay away from being in the clock.  All the old crusties want " faster play " as they shout " pace of play while we're young " ( the irony lol) , now the same ones are saying slow down and wait for someone to walk up and mark.   Quite the contradiction isn't it ?

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#26 Llortamaisey

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:17 AM

For the people saying that they are gaining an advantage on the field, are the players going to have to start marking the ball whenever their playing partner hits it close? 200 yard par three, first guy hits it close, hold up! Let him go mark it before the second guy hits. Wouldn’t want to create a backstop. Get outta here. Just stop.

Is it an advantage? Sure, it could be, but only if the player actually hits the ball, otherwise if he misses the ball, it wasn’t an advantage. And what happens if the player hits the ball and it ends up further away from the hole than it was actually going to be? That’s just as good of a possibility.

What’s next? Are we going to make people wait for the wind to die down on a downwind par five because the morning groups didn’t have the downwind and couldn’t get there in two? So silly.

There’s always going to be a rub of the green. It’s the nature of golf or any sport for that matter. The funny thing is, the real tradition of the sport of golf wouldn’t let you mark the ball. Play it as it lies.

Edited by Llortamaisey, 10 October 2017 - 07:33 AM.


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#27 KYMAR

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:20 AM

Man all of you "wouldn't he just make it?" guys  are missing the point completely.

Just read what JT says about it. "if i want to rush and  hit a shot for that reason it's my right"

He then goes on to make the awful comparison between this and the size of the gallery. If the obvious difference there escapes you too, I'm not sure any explanation will be helpful.

Every person who is defending the practice and is saying it's not looking for any advantage isn't listening to Thomas. He's freely acknowledging that's the goal.

Again, we're talking about protecting the field.
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#28 Ferguson

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:27 AM

View PostDancingShadows, on 10 October 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

View Postrafal, on 10 October 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

JT should just play golf, whenever he voices his opinion he doesn't usually come across as particularly wise.

Kind of like the way this sounds? He's a 24 year old kid, how intelligent did you sound on a national podium at that age? Oh wait that's right....



Tip o' the hat.

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#29 bladehunter

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:28 AM

View PostKYMAR, on 10 October 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

Man all of you "wouldn't he just make it?" guys  are missing the point completely.

Just read what JT says about it. "if i want to rush and  hit a shot for that reason it's my right"

He then goes on to make the awful comparison between this and the size of the gallery. If the obvious difference there escapes you too, I'm not sure any explanation will be helpful.

Every person who is defending the practice and is saying it's not looking for any advantage isn't listening to Thomas. He's freely acknowledging that's the goal.

Again, we're talking about protecting the field.

Sure. It maybe his goal.  That just makes him a tool.  No need to enact a rule for one tool.!( sorry. That was just laying there. I had to pick it up).   Thomas is aboot to learn a good lesson.  Just because you won a major doesn't mean you should get loose lipped on twitter.  It will only hurt him. Nothing to be gained.  

Still don't see how you can do anything aboot it even if it is a issue. Like was said above , are you going to have guys walk up and mark on all close hit approaches too?  If not then I don't see how you can do a thing.
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#30 hurricanes7

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:32 AM

View PostMattyO1984, on 10 October 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

Hours and hours spent on here and this is the first time I have ever heard of "backstopping".

Am I the only one?

40 years of golf and first time for me also. who the hell can hit a ball on the green on purpose with their ball?

GBB Epic Driver Oban Kiyoshi Gold 65s
GBB Epic 3 Wood Oban Kiyoshi Gold 75s
Mizuno CLK Hybrid Aldila Tour Blue 85s
Srixon 765/565 Irons Nippon Modus 105s
Callaway MD3 54 Wedge Modus 125
Callaway MD3 56 Wedge Modus 115
Callaway MD3 58 forged Wedge Modus 105
Bettinardi Queen Bee #6
Callaway Chrome Soft X

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