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High Spin Shaft vs Mid Spin Shaft


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#1 Carolina Golfer 2

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:35 PM

What is the real performance difference between the two, my understanding had always been, a mid spin shaft would not balloon as much when hit into a head wind, but recent reading on here has me hearing that the club-head has more to do with creating too much or not enough spin versus the shaft.

So in general terms could someone help educate me on that, as well as what I'd be seeing in the Black (mid spin) shaft vs the Red (hgih spin).  Would I lose holding ability on the greens?   I am looking at the AMT Red or Black shaft for the 718 AP1's. I have a 7 iron swing of about 83 with a pretty aggressive transition.  I normally don't have a problem generating spin.  I currently play a Modus3 105 R in the Srixon 565 mid irons and 765 in the scoring irons and it goes plenty high enough.

Edited by Carolina Golfer 2, 09 October 2017 - 02:36 PM.

Titleist 917 D3 9.5 Diamana Red S+ 50g
Titleist F2 917 18* Diamana 60g S+
Titleist 816 H1 21* Diamana S+
Srixon Z565 6/7 and Z765 8-P NS Modus3 105 Regular
Titleist SM6 50.8, 54.8 and 58.12
Scotty Cameron X7M 35"

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#2 rawdog

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:52 PM

The amount of spin is mainly determined by the spin loft, which you can see in green in the picture below is the angle between the angle of attack and dynamic loft.

There are no industry standards on "high spin" vs. "mid spin." Meaning, most of these distinctions are significant only between different shafts of the same company.

A shaft that is stiffer at the tip will deliver less dynamic loft to the ball, meaning less spin loft, meaning less spin. This is because the shaft is restricted as to how much it flexes forward at the moment of impact.

So, don't think of it as the shaft changing the spin, think of it as the shaft influencing the dynamic loft delivered to the ball. You can change dynamic loft in a variety of ways, not just through a shaft choice.

Attached Thumbnails

  • spin loft.png

Edited by rawdog, 09 October 2017 - 02:53 PM.

Cobra F7 8.5* HZRDUS Yellow @ 44.5"
Tour Edge Exotics XCG3 4 Wood 16.5*
Mizuno TZoid Fli-Hi 18*
TM SpeedBlade 4-PW
TM SpeedBlade 50*
Callaway PM Grind 55*
Callaway PM Grind 60*
Odyssey Metal X Milled #9 HT
Callaway Supersoft

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#3 BrianL99

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:55 PM

View PostCarolina Golfer 2, on 09 October 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

What is the real performance difference between the two, my understanding had always been, a mid spin shaft would not balloon as much when hit into a head wind, but recent reading on here has me hearing that the club-head has more to do with creating too much or not enough spin versus the shaft.

So in general terms could someone help educate me on that, as well as what I'd be seeing in the Black (mid spin) shaft vs the Red (hgih spin).  Would I lose holding ability on the greens?   I am looking at the AMT Red or Black shaft for the 718 AP1's. I have a 7 iron swing of about 83 with a pretty aggressive transition.  I normally don't have a problem generating spin.  I currently play a Modus3 105 R in the Srixon 565 mid irons and 765 in the scoring irons and it goes plenty high enough.


Just to add to what RawDog told you ...

You can have a "high spin" or "low spin" head, but the shaft in & of itself, doesn't affect spin.

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#4 Carolina Golfer 2

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:35 PM

Brian and Rawdog, thanks so much, that seems to be what I've come understand the more I've read of late.   One further question, RD to your point about tip stiffness, I've seen mentioned before that some shafts are tip stiff or butt stiff and I understand the difference on launch that will have.   I may have missed it in the specs for the AMT Black and Red, are they about the same in tip stiffness.  From my last fitting about a year ago, my fitter said I did better with a shaft that had a bit of stiffer tip.   I"m sure the Red is not, but wondering if the black is a bit more so.    Or perhaps overthinking it too much between the two.  

Thanks for the replies and illustration.
Titleist 917 D3 9.5 Diamana Red S+ 50g
Titleist F2 917 18* Diamana 60g S+
Titleist 816 H1 21* Diamana S+
Srixon Z565 6/7 and Z765 8-P NS Modus3 105 Regular
Titleist SM6 50.8, 54.8 and 58.12
Scotty Cameron X7M 35"

4

#5 rawdog

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:09 PM

View PostCarolina Golfer 2, on 09 October 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Brian and Rawdog, thanks so much, that seems to be what I've come understand the more I've read of late.   One further question, RD to your point about tip stiffness, I've seen mentioned before that some shafts are tip stiff or butt stiff and I understand the difference on launch that will have.   I may have missed it in the specs for the AMT Black and Red, are they about the same in tip stiffness.  From my last fitting about a year ago, my fitter said I did better with a shaft that had a bit of stiffer tip.   I"m sure the Red is not, but wondering if the black is a bit more so. Or perhaps overthinking it too much between the two.  

Thanks for the replies and illustration.

No problem, I've learned a lot from this site, particularly from guys like Tom Wishon who grace our presence from time to time!

To answer your question on the AMT's, I don't know much about the specifics of each of those shafts. Without writing off your fitter, it may surprise you that for some people, tip stiffness doesn't matter much, if at all. So fear not, and read myth #4 in Wishon's post from a while back.

http://www.golfwrx.c...o-help-you-all/

Cobra F7 8.5* HZRDUS Yellow @ 44.5"
Tour Edge Exotics XCG3 4 Wood 16.5*
Mizuno TZoid Fli-Hi 18*
TM SpeedBlade 4-PW
TM SpeedBlade 50*
Callaway PM Grind 55*
Callaway PM Grind 60*
Odyssey Metal X Milled #9 HT
Callaway Supersoft

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#6 Carolina Golfer 2

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:10 PM

View Postrawdog, on 09 October 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

View PostCarolina Golfer 2, on 09 October 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Brian and Rawdog, thanks so much, that seems to be what I've come understand the more I've read of late.   One further question, RD to your point about tip stiffness, I've seen mentioned before that some shafts are tip stiff or butt stiff and I understand the difference on launch that will have.   I may have missed it in the specs for the AMT Black and Red, are they about the same in tip stiffness.  From my last fitting about a year ago, my fitter said I did better with a shaft that had a bit of stiffer tip.   I"m sure the Red is not, but wondering if the black is a bit more so. Or perhaps overthinking it too much between the two.  

Thanks for the replies and illustration.

No problem, I've learned a lot from this site, particularly from guys like Tom Wishon who grace our presence from time to time!

To answer your question on the AMT's, I don't know much about the specifics of each of those shafts. Without writing off your fitter, it may surprise you that for some people, tip stiffness doesn't matter much, if at all. So fear not, and read myth #4 in Wishon's post from a while back.

http://www.golfwrx.c...o-help-you-all/
Thanks for that.  I had read it before, but it was a great refresher and reminder!
Titleist 917 D3 9.5 Diamana Red S+ 50g
Titleist F2 917 18* Diamana 60g S+
Titleist 816 H1 21* Diamana S+
Srixon Z565 6/7 and Z765 8-P NS Modus3 105 Regular
Titleist SM6 50.8, 54.8 and 58.12
Scotty Cameron X7M 35"

6

#7 Golfrnut

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:46 PM

With the AMTs being fairly new(within a few years), I don't think anyone has actually profiled them to map the bend profile of the shaft.  All we can really base assumptions on is that TT says they are supposed to mirror their DG counterpart.  True?  Maybe.  Maybe not.

With the new "versions" coming out that seem to be a "made for" Titleist only offering, it's tough to speculate, outside of the weight, what changes there might be in the bend profile vs the heavier original AMT.  In those cases, a lot of the answers are only going to come from finding someone that has them available for trial.  In a better world, fitting carts would offer a number of irons throughout the set to try, instead of just your standard 6 or 7 iron.

Edited by Golfrnut, 11 October 2017 - 02:46 PM.

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Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
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Callaway MD3 50* & 54*/58* PM grind
Odyssey MXM 1W

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#8 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:20 PM

The launch difference between a high launch and a mid launch shaft is marginal at the most. The main difference is the feel of loading. The lower the "launch" the firmer the shaft will "feel", especially in the tip section. I have also seen lower torque in the low launch shaft too and torque can also influence the feel of a shaft.

BT
DR #1. RED Amp Cell Pro w/ ATX Red 65 TX 44.5",
DR #2. BLUE Bio Cell Pro w/ ATX Blue 75 X 44.5"
DR #3. WHITE Fly-Z+ w/ Kiyoshi White 75 S 44.5"
DR #4. King LTD Black w/ SpeedrulZ Type A 70 S 44.5"
DR #5. Matte Black Fly-Z + w/ Aldila Rip Beta 70 X 44.5"
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BLUE Bio Cell 5-7 w/ Speeder 757 S British Open LTD, RED Amp Cell 5-7 w/ 8Q3 S, WHITE Fly-Z 5-7 Fubuki Alpha 80 X, LTD Black 4-5 w/ Rip beta 80 S - All at 42"
Cobra Amp Cell Pro 4-pw Aldila Rip Tour 115 R
Mizuno MP4 4-pw Matrix Program 130 S
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#9 Carolina Golfer 2

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:10 PM

View PostGolfrnut, on 11 October 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

With the AMTs being fairly new(within a few years), I don't think anyone has actually profiled them to map the bend profile of the shaft.  All we can really base assumptions on is that TT says they are supposed to mirror their DG counterpart.  True?  Maybe.  Maybe not.

With the new "versions" coming out that seem to be a "made for" Titleist only offering, it's tough to speculate, outside of the weight, what changes there might be in the bend profile vs the heavier original AMT.  In those cases, a lot of the answers are only going to come from finding someone that has them available for trial.  In a better world, fitting carts would offer a number of irons throughout the set to try, instead of just your standard 6 or 7 iron.
After I posted this question, I had a FB conversation with TrueTemper.  They told me the current AMT line is too new to be in it's shaft fit system. But that the AMT Red is very similar to XP95 and that AMT Black is very similar to XP115.

I whole heartily agree with you about multiple heads in fitting carts vs just the 7 or 6.
Titleist 917 D3 9.5 Diamana Red S+ 50g
Titleist F2 917 18* Diamana 60g S+
Titleist 816 H1 21* Diamana S+
Srixon Z565 6/7 and Z765 8-P NS Modus3 105 Regular
Titleist SM6 50.8, 54.8 and 58.12
Scotty Cameron X7M 35"

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