111 replies to this topic

[pacobanuelos]

With more and more talk about the modern ball going too far and straight, curious to know the following:

The Tour decides to have their own rules on the golf ball and decide to limit it, making the pros play with a 80% ball. Amateurs can still play a more and more advanced golf ball.

What would you play in your weekend round? Same as the pros?

IMO, the nature of the golf equipment industry is that people want the equipment the pros use - hence such a huge WITB section in websites like this. Curious to hear thoughts on this hypothetical scenario.

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[chippa13]

While I have a stockpile of premium balls I'm pretty sure there aren't any tour pros gaming the Project A that saw most of the play in yesterday's round.

[Conrad1953]

Ball won't be changed......golf fans want to see the long ball.

No matter I would still play with the superball that is the current golf ball
just like I play with the irons that I like regardless of the USGA's misguided
groove rule.

[Matt J]

It would be a tough situation if amateur events on short courses went to the tour ball.

I play a lot of golf with old guys that need the distance.  My game is well adapted to the normal ball.  It would be tough to switch back and forth and I would be super short compared to the competition with the tour ball.

I would imagine it would basically break at whether or not guys trying to "make it" play the tournament or not, as they would probably switch full time and get free balls.  So, it would depend a lot if all the minis followed suit, top Am events, etc.

This is exactly why they don't do it.

[pearsonified]

Quote

I play a lot of golf with old guys that need the distance.

I hate when this reason gets trotted out. Who cares what ball an old guy who can only hit it 230 plays?

The only thing that matters regarding ball bifurcation is what ball is required for use in various tournaments. I suspect nearly all club play would continue as normal with the "juiced" balls, and perhaps only professional or maybe even high-level amateur events on classic courses would use the "dead" ball.

People are really sensationalist and off base about this issue, IMO. How is adjusting to a ball any different from adjusting to playing at a different altitude? (Hint: It isn't.)

[caniac6]

pearsonified, on 09 October 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Quote

I play a lot of golf with old guys that need the distance.

I hate when this reason gets trotted out. Who cares what ball an old guy who can only hit it 230 plays?

The only thing that matters regarding ball bifurcation is what ball is required for use in various tournaments. I suspect nearly all club play would continue as normal with the "juiced" balls, and perhaps only professional or maybe even high-level amateur events on classic courses would use the "dead" ball.

People are really sensationalist and off base about this issue, IMO. How is adjusting to a ball any different from adjusting to playing at a different altitude? (Hint: It isn't.)

You will care when you become that old guy.

[pearsonified]

Quote

You will care when you become that old guy.

Congrats on missing the point entirely.

The point is, anyone can play whatever ball they want whenever they want, EXCEPT in tournaments that require the "dead" ball to be used.

Regardless of their age, players can be expected to play the equipment that yields the biggest possible advantage, which is what everyone is already doing anyway!

[caniac6]

pearsonified, on 09 October 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Quote

You will care when you become that old guy.

Congrats on missing the point entirely.

The point is, anyone can play whatever ball they want whenever they want, EXCEPT in tournaments that require the "dead" ball to be used.

Regardless of their age, players can be expected to play the equipment that yields the biggest possible advantage, which is what everyone is already doing anyway!

Thanks for clearing things up!

[raynorfan1]

I think the only (real) precedent for this kind of thing in sports is the MLB wooden bat rule. I think what we'd see is that most amateur competition would be played using the current ball (or maybe an extra-juiced one...) as we see in aluminum bat amateur baseball (right up to NCAAs). I think we'd also see "Tour Ball" tourneys at a lot of clubs, in the same way that there are a bunch of "wooden bat" leagues in the amateur baseball world.

The really hard part comes with player development. What would you have up-and-coming junior players use? If they win everything because they hit the ball a mile, that's great until they hit the Tour. You'd basically have two different skill sets required to become successful.

[sailfishchris]

Is this because Gary Player lamented how St.Andrews got shredded at the Dunhill? The course was set up for a Pro-am...... It happens.

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[pearsonified]

Quote

If they win everything because they hit the ball a mile, that's great until they hit the Tour. You'd basically have two different skill sets required to become successful.

I disagree here. If you can bomb the dead ball, you can bomb the juiced ball. Bombers = bombers, and it's all relative based on the ball in play.

Do you need a different skill set to play golf at 6,000ft elevation? Of course not—you simply adjust to the variables at hand.

Beyond that, this dead ball situation already exists for people who live at elevation but who play golf on vacations to sea level. A couple years back, I played with a guy from Denver who was flat out bummed his 7i only went 175 in Austin when he was accustomed to hitting it 190ish.

In effect, he had to play with a dead ball until he adjusted to account for the elevation difference.

[North Butte]

I play the ball I like best, chosen from those allowed under the Rules of Golf. Clubs too.

Don't give a crap about what millionaire entertainers use on television.

[moonshine]

It's like a Yankees fan told me years ago when I mentioned buying the trophy. He said ya still have to hit it between the lines.

[Sean2]

pearsonified, on 09 October 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Quote

I play a lot of golf with old guys that need the distance.

I hate when this reason gets trotted out. Who cares what ball an old guy who can only hit it 230 plays?

The only thing that matters regarding ball bifurcation is what ball is required for use in various tournaments. I suspect nearly all club play would continue as normal with the "juiced" balls, and perhaps only professional or maybe even high-level amateur events on classic courses would use the "dead" ball.

People are really sensationalist and off base about this issue, IMO. How is adjusting to a ball any different from adjusting to playing at a different altitude? (Hint: It isn't.)

You will...and it will be sooner than you think.

[pearsonified]

Quote

You will...and it will be sooner than you think.

When I read this kind of nonsense, I imagine Grandpa Simpson out in the front yard, shaking his fist at a passing cloud.

The point about "old guys" is that old guys compete against other old guys, and that essentially levels the playing field as much as is necessary for them. (Of course, you still have long hitters and short hitters in that mix, as that's life.)

Oh, and then there's the whole "play the correct tees for your game" thing.

Bottom line: This whole debate is driven by an irrelevant fear of loss, as everyone would lose the exact same amount of distance under bifurcated ball rules.

And like I've already said, such a ruling would never affect any of us, as it would only be applied to young flatbellies trying to make the Tour (a la wooden bats in MLB versus college).

RELATIVITY is the only thing that matters here, and should bifurcation ever happen, no one on this site is going to lose anything relative to anyone else!

Edited by pearsonified, 09 October 2017 - 03:44 PM.

[chippa13]

This reminds me of the former 30 year old on our beer league hockey team who swore he'd never lose it who is now pushing 40 and saying things like, "I can't do it anymore". Age catches everyone.

[pearsonified]

As a final note, I'd like to add that I WISH I could play a "dead" ball on courses under 6400 yards. It'd be easier for me to keep the ball on the course off the tee, and I'd have no problem giving up my typical distance advantage on par 5s if it meant I could keep the ball in play more easily on the rest of the holes.

[buckeyefl]

Distance is always an advantage no matter the course length. You will always be hitting less club if you adjust accordingly so theres your advantage and you will be hitting a less lofted club into the green. Advantage #2

How is adjusting to a course any different from adjusting to playing at a different altitude? (Hint: It isn't.)

Edited by buckeyefl, 09 October 2017 - 05:16 PM.

[pearsonified]

For those worried about distance with a bifurcated ball (that you won't even be playing), the solution is to move up a set of tees to make the new yardage equal to the old yardage.

After all, the entire point of the bifurcated ball is to make classic-era courses relevant again without needing to retrofit an extra 500+ yards in the form of new back tees.

This isn't complicated.

IT'S ALL RELATIVE.

Let's say you drive it 280 yards and consider a 7,200 yard course to be your reasonable upper limit for playability.

Now let's say you only drive the ball 255 yards with a bifurcated ball. Under these conditions, a ~6,850 yard course is going to play identical to a 7,200 yard course with the "juiced" ball (as far as distance is concerned).

The inescapable reality here is it would be foolish to attempt to play the same tees with a bifurcated ball, as your conditions have now changed considerably. Honestly, I think this is why so many who read this thread respond defensively—perhaps they are massively averse to moving to a different set of tees.

Edited by pearsonified, 09 October 2017 - 05:36 PM.

[North Butte]

No they are averse to the idea that they should hit the ball shorter and move up a couple sets of tees SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WATCH PEOPLE ON TV HIT IT FARTHER THAN YOU WANT THEM TO.

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[Medic]

Conrad1953, on 09 October 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Ball won't be changed......golf fans want to see the long ball.

No matter I would still play with the superball that is the current golf ball
just like I play with the irons that I like regardless of the USGA's misguided
groove rule.

drop the mic and shut it down - this reply sums it up/

[Conrad1953]

pearsonified, on 09 October 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

As a final note, I'd like to add that I WISH I could play a "dead" ball on courses under 6400 yards. It'd be easier for me to keep the ball on the course off the tee, and I'd have no problem giving up my typical distance advantage on par 5s if it meant I could keep the ball in play more easily on the rest of the holes.

You can do that now using less club......or if you wish, hunt down some old
wound balls and play with them.

As far as relativity goes what you say is certainly true and shooting a score
is the most satisfying thing for most of us but I think you underestimate the
satisfaction one gets from plain smacking the ball a long ways (relatively
speaking, of course). Somehow, hitting the ball shorter than before just
leaves you feeling less satisfied.

[WidespreadPanic]

pearsonified, on 09 October 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

As a final note, I'd like to add that I WISH I could play a "dead" ball on courses under 6400 yards. It'd be easier for me to keep the ball on the course off the tee, and I'd have no problem giving up my typical distance advantage on par 5s if it meant I could keep the ball in play more easily on the rest of the holes.

How about hitting a 3 wood or long iron? Like you said, its all about adjustment. Does this sound familiar??

"Do you need a different skill set to play golf at 6,000ft elevation? Of course not—you simply adjust to the variables at hand."

Edited by WidespreadPanic, 10 October 2017 - 11:11 AM.

[nsxguy]

pearsonified, on 09 October 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Quote

You will care when you become that old guy.

Congrats on missing the point entirely.

The point is, anyone can play whatever ball they want whenever they want, EXCEPT in tournaments that require the "dead" ball to be used.

Regardless of their age, players can be expected to play the equipment that yields the biggest possible advantage, which is what everyone is already doing anyway!

Congrats for being tone deaf !

[Uhit]

This reminds me to a discussion, we already had:

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry14755812

and to this report:

http://www.golfwrx.c...le-has-changed/

...that shows, that driving length is meanwhile more related to the weather, and the fairway conditions, than anything else.

-

I play the balls I already have, which are allowed in tournaments...

...because everybody and his dog knows, that it is an advantage to always play the same ball to improve consistency, and to know your distances - especially in the short game.

-

Bifurcation would only help the earnings of a hand full of already wealthy people for a short period...
...and it would destroy golf in the long run for the majority.

-



I think, the ball industry is already moving in the better direction - with lower prices for well performing, and conforming, golf balls - for everyone.
This really helps the majority, and the game golf, in the long run.
But it may not suit a hand full of people, which would love to earn even more money in the sector they are currently in.

I think it is more easy, if a hand full of people is adjusting, instead of the majority.

Edited by Uhit, 10 October 2017 - 03:46 AM.

[Bad9]

I think there's 0% chance the professional tours do anything to limit the ball. Maybe the ruling bodies might but I'm not convinced of that. Regardless of what they do I won't change the ball I play.

[NJpatbee]

If the USGA rules say that I can continue to use my current golf ball I will continue to do so.  If the PGA wants a dead ball for tournaments it does not affect me, but I doubt that it will ever happen.  We have some reasonable guidelines set by the USGA for golf balls and equipment and I believe they will not change significantly.  You also cannot stop the professionals from working on their strength and technique to squeeze as much distance as they can, so expect more pros to popping their drives 320+ yards.  Remember that Jack won the 1963 long drive contest with a 341 yard drive at the PGA Championship using a persimmon driver and wound ball.

And by the way, this 65 year old does care that that he can smoke (relative term!) a drive 230+ yards once in a while with a ball with lower compression and a 460cc titanium driver with a sweet spot the size of silver dollar.

[caniac6]

If the motivation for this topic was the 61 at the Old Course, and Gary Player's response, the old course record was 62 set by Curtis Strange. So, the new equipment and hot ball was worth one shot. One shot.

[North Butte]

caniac6, on 10 October 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

If the motivation for this topic was the 61 at the Old Course, and Gary Player's response, the old course record was 62 set by Curtis Strange. So, the new equipment and hot ball was worth one shot. One shot.

Yeah but for goodness sakes they hit over the hotel on 17!!!!!!

If that is a serious concern make it a 2-shot penalty for hitting over the hotel.

[moonshine]

caniac6, on 10 October 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

If the motivation for this topic was the 61 at the Old Course, and Gary Player's response, the old course record was 62 set by Curtis Strange. So, the new equipment and hot ball was worth one shot. One shot.

Not to mention he has played much better since switching to the big red ugly putter....

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