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US Mid Am


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#31 From_Parts_Unknown

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:59 PM

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

Passing the PAT and playing in the Mid Am are two different stratospheres of play.  Heck, there's even one maybe two levels in between.

BTW, the guys that barely meet the handicap requirement, could struggle with that PAT if they crumble under pressure, but they're not sniffing the jocks of the top 85% of the field, even at the state level.  PAT is break 75 territory, Mid Am is break 65 mentality for a casual round.

In order to register as an apprentice, you would have to shoot better than an average of 86 each round, or better, at Atlanta National.  They'd have to go lower at Crabapple with a two round average of 83, or better.  So basically, two people in the Mid-Am field wouldn't be able to register as an apprentice and fifteen people wouldn't have hit the PAT target score.  

Of course they would end up losing their amateur status, ha!

Edited by From_Parts_Unknown, 09 October 2017 - 02:02 PM.


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#32 BottleCap

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 02:04 PM

Is that why this is posted user Tour Talk
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#33 jli2636

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:28 PM

 bladehunter, on 09 October 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

 jli2636, on 08 October 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

 golfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

 DLiver, on 08 October 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

 golfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Talking about guys who played years on web/pga tour I agree is different and I think USGA requires an extra year on the sidelines for them.

Wow a whole extra year! Jeepers well that should even things out with the guys who work for a living and play golf a couple times a week.

Yeah, not really disagreeing that the 3 year wait for them isn't really a hit to their confidence but what do you do?  Tell them they have to play left handed?

I think if you have had any status on any pro tour higher than mini tours(I would consider PGA Canada/Latin America and above for this) you shouldn't be allowed to have your am status back. Earning status on these tours means you put in the time and effort to make this a living playing professionally. You were a professional golfer, not a golf professional and there is a HUGE difference. Also if you have won at any of the above levels you should 100% not be able to get status back. I don't have any problem with club pro guys getting their status back.

Normally I might be of the same mind.   But I can't help but to say that your mistaken if you think any good or top am isn't practicing everyday of the week 365 days a year . Even if it's jut rolling putts indoors on icy days.  If you aren't  doing that you may as well quit.   Just not much if any difference between a pro and a top level am as far as practice time goes. Which seems to be your main gripe with a pro. Especially if that top am is older and has a ton of tournament experience .

It's a pipe dream to think that if " only I had the time they do " yadda yadda yadda. ....,truth is the top talent is born that way.  Could go on a month long bender , roll out of bed and walk to the tee and shoot under par.  Practice time is just to stay sharp.  

I would be ok with any pro waiting1 year and getting reinstated.  Once.  I do agree that more than once is rediculius.   No back and forth.

Practice time isn't my main gripe, I know top level ams practice a lot I would be naive to think otherwise. The difference is that guys on the tours I mentioned and above, have either made a living at one point in time, or earned enough status that they could make a living playing the game of golf. Im not saying if you have played in a few tournaments as a pro or flame out in q school. I'm saying you have earned conditional or better status on something higher than the mini tours that you shouldnt be allowed to get your am status back or make it more difficult the higher you get. For instance, PGA Canada/Latin America maybe its only 1-2 year waiting period, Web.com 3-5 years, PGA Tour 10+, use the number of wins as a formula for years you have to wait in addition(using these numbers just for ease of numbers, I dont know what it could realistically be.) Earning that status means you have earned at least a little bit of money playing the game.

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#34 North Butte

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:31 PM

As long as Arnie wasn't allowed to pick up young Tiger's dinner tab we know the spirit of amateurism is intact.

Mere PGA Tour winners entering amateur events is not a problem. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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#35 jli2636

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:09 PM

 North Butte, on 09 October 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

As long as Arnie wasn't allowed to pick up young Tiger's dinner tab we know the spirit of amateurism is intact.

Mere PGA Tour winners entering amateur events is not a problem. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

To be fair that was an NCAA thing, not USGA amateur status as far as I can remember.


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#36 Matt J

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:31 PM

 North Butte, on 09 October 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

As long as Arnie wasn't allowed to pick up young Tiger's dinner tab we know the spirit of amateurism is intact.

Mere PGA Tour winners entering amateur events is not a problem. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

You're becoming a real favorite of the cryptic post.  Golf obviously has a long well documented history of drawing a distinction between the professional and the amateur.  Historically, that distinction was that the professional was of a lower class.  I think that has generally changed and we've become a far less class-conscious society.  Most pros now come from the same class as top amateurs, that being middle-upper at the very least.

How would you like for the game to better protect the spirit of "amateurism?"

Half you guys seem better suited for the Golf Channel's Am Tour than a Mid Am qualifier.  Talk about a man behind the curtain... and his name was Arnold Palmer.

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#37 smeech8000

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:34 PM

 From_Parts_Unknown, on 09 October 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

Passing the PAT and playing in the Mid Am are two different stratospheres of play.  Heck, there's even one maybe two levels in between.

BTW, the guys that barely meet the handicap requirement, could struggle with that PAT if they crumble under pressure, but they're not sniffing the jocks of the top 85% of the field, even at the state level.  PAT is break 75 territory, Mid Am is break 65 mentality for a casual round.

In order to register as an apprentice, you would have to shoot better than an average of 86 each round, or better, at Atlanta National.  They'd have to go lower at Crabapple with a two round average of 83, or better.  So basically, two people in the Mid-Am field wouldn't be able to register as an apprentice and fifteen people wouldn't have hit the PAT target score.  

Of course they would end up losing their amateur status, ha!

Point take, however I'd wager the course setup is slightly more difficult this week than your typical PAT... PGA regulations cap the length on a PAT course at 6,700 and require holes to be cut on flat portions of the green, usually toward the center of the surface.
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#38 Cicero

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:37 PM

I used to have an issue with the reinstated amateur, but not so much anymore.  I'm a fan of the traditional amateur player, but that horse is out of the barn and in the next county.  Truth is, if the guy isn't playing golf for a living and is working a regular job, even if he played pro at one point, then he doesn't have a huge advantage over the Trip Kuehne type who never turned pro, but could have.  

I think that there should be some kind of time restriction (I don't know if there is or not); if you played a major tour for something like 10 years, I'd think that has to count for something.

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#39 From_Parts_Unknown

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:43 PM

 smeech8000, on 09 October 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

 From_Parts_Unknown, on 09 October 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

Passing the PAT and playing in the Mid Am are two different stratospheres of play.  Heck, there's even one maybe two levels in between.

BTW, the guys that barely meet the handicap requirement, could struggle with that PAT if they crumble under pressure, but they're not sniffing the jocks of the top 85% of the field, even at the state level.  PAT is break 75 territory, Mid Am is break 65 mentality for a casual round.

In order to register as an apprentice, you would have to shoot better than an average of 86 each round, or better, at Atlanta National.  They'd have to go lower at Crabapple with a two round average of 83, or better.  So basically, two people in the Mid-Am field wouldn't be able to register as an apprentice and fifteen people wouldn't have hit the PAT target score.  

Of course they would end up losing their amateur status, ha!

Point take, however I'd wager the course setup is slightly more difficult this week than your typical PAT... PGA regulations cap the length on a PAT course at 6,700 and require holes to be cut on flat portions of the green, usually toward the center of the surface.

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right.  You and I are on the same page.  That was what I was alluding to in the post.  I was actually going to post the information you did about the yardage but I couldn't remember the exact yardage and god forbid I post the wrong info around here.  I would get flamed for days.  The golf courses this week would be super tough to get through the PAT, however, the vast majority of the guys in the Mid-Am field would have done it.  I respect anyone who passes their PAT, it's tough to play knowing the number you have to shoot, but the PAT much easier than playing in the Mid-Am.

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#40 Matt J

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:43 PM

The more I think of it, the more the roles have reversed between Am and Pro.  Opens used to be a big deal because pros got to play with the Ams, now the exact opposite is true.

Work has gone from being a dirty word to the leisure class to the mantra behind an entire culture.

Back in the day you wouldn't take money to stay pure, now posers brag about cashing a check that barely pays travel expenses.


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#41 Doc420

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:29 PM

 BottleCap, on 09 October 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Is that why this is posted user Tour Talk
If you are referring to me, I originally put this post in general golf, It was moved here.

playoff tomorrow 25 for 16 spots I believe.  Also the current leader got his am status back last august after playing 8 years on various tours

Edited by Doc420, 09 October 2017 - 10:10 PM.


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#42 Shilgy

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:33 PM

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

The more I think of it, the more the roles have reversed between Am and Pro.  Opens used to be a big deal because pros got to play with the Ams, now the exact opposite is true.

Work has gone from being a dirty word to the leisure class to the mantra behind an entire culture.

Back in the day you wouldn't take money to stay pure, now posers brag about cashing a check that barely pays travel expenses.
But the pros have dominated the Opens for over a century.
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#43 Matt J

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:46 PM

 Shilgy, on 09 October 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

The more I think of it, the more the roles have reversed between Am and Pro.  Opens used to be a big deal because pros got to play with the Ams, now the exact opposite is true.

Work has gone from being a dirty word to the leisure class to the mantra behind an entire culture.

Back in the day you wouldn't take money to stay pure, now posers brag about cashing a check that barely pays travel expenses.
But the pros have dominated the Opens for over a century.

Bobby Jones would disagree.

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#44 Shilgy

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:19 AM

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

 Shilgy, on 09 October 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

The more I think of it, the more the roles have reversed between Am and Pro.  Opens used to be a big deal because pros got to play with the Ams, now the exact opposite is true.

Work has gone from being a dirty word to the leisure class to the mantra behind an entire culture.

Back in the day you wouldn't take money to stay pure, now posers brag about cashing a check that barely pays travel expenses.
But the pros have dominated the Opens for over a century.

Bobby Jones would disagree.
So Mickelson winning in Tucson as an amateur means the pros don't really dominate the PGA Tour? In 1930 US Open Jones was the only am in the top 10.
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#45 cardoustie

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:38 PM

tour pro = getting status back based on sliding scale ... as proposed above .. longer wait for PGA tour players ... and longer for tour winners
club pro = limited wait.   Most of these guys don't play competitive golf and if they do not well

Ask yourself this .. a tour pro with multiple wins say 3 -8 years ago .... can he be a Mid-Am .. ever?

Where is the line drawn?

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#46 jli2636

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:23 PM

 cardoustie, on 10 October 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

tour pro = getting status back based on sliding scale ... as proposed above .. longer wait for PGA tour players ... and longer for tour winners
club pro = limited wait.   Most of these guys don't play competitive golf and if they do not well

Ask yourself this .. a tour pro with multiple wins say 3 -8 years ago .... can he be a Mid-Am .. ever?

Where is the line drawn?

Maybe instead of years on tour, base the sliding scale on money earned per year on average? That way it would balance out if you had won or not since your average would obviously go up if you won in any given year. Then weight the earnings based on what tour you earned that money on, PGA tour obviously carrying the highest weight.

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#47 Matt J

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:22 PM

 jli2636, on 10 October 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

 cardoustie, on 10 October 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

tour pro = getting status back based on sliding scale ... as proposed above .. longer wait for PGA tour players ... and longer for tour winners
club pro = limited wait.   Most of these guys don't play competitive golf and if they do not well

Ask yourself this .. a tour pro with multiple wins say 3 -8 years ago .... can he be a Mid-Am .. ever?

Where is the line drawn?

Maybe instead of years on tour, base the sliding scale on money earned per year on average? That way it would balance out if you had won or not since your average would obviously go up if you won in any given year. Then weight the earnings based on what tour you earned that money on, PGA tour obviously carrying the highest weight.

I agree.  That's along the same lines as what I posted earlier.

Say a guy or gal has to wait out a year for every $25k he won as a professional.  If you won a half a million for a second place finish on tour you're waiting 20 years.  Sounds about right to me!

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#48 Matt J

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:24 PM

 Drudersh, on 09 October 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

 Cool Hand Luke, on 09 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

i agree with some of the above posters about being okay with club pros being reinstated but there should be a thicker line drawn between those guys and the guys who played for a living. Also, I'd like to see the mid-am change their criteria to age 30 and above, or maybe at least 28?. The 25 yo fresh out of college golf should not be a mid-am imo.

I do agree the age should go up to 30.

25 is too young.  22 year old kicks around the minis after college is just old enough to get reinstated in time for the Mid Am and give it a roll again.

Ages of most 10 recent winners of the US Mid Am at the time of victory, starting with the most recent (2016) winner. Also included is whether or not the player was a true amateur or reinstated Am. I've labeled Smith's win's just as an FYI that the same guy won it three times.

Based on this list, I'd posit that the bigger problem is the pro's turning around and playing amateur golf than the 20 somethings. I actually think it's a good thing to have the 25 year old's in there to keep them engaged in the game.

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37 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am
51 - Reinstated Am
34 - Nathan Smith
54
32 - Nathan Smith
31 - Nathan Smith
39 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am

I like it.  Thanks for posting something logical and some good food for thought.

My feelings come from playing against some guys that could win our state Mid Am.  The guys between 25 and 30 seem that they would mostly still be thinking of taking a US Open invite and Masters invite and parlaying it into some kind of status where I think the 30+ year olds would just value the experience as they seem to accept that the ship has sailed and just hope for a Crump Cup invite ;)

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#49 Cool Hand Luke

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:50 AM

 Matt J, on 10 October 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

 Drudersh, on 09 October 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

 Cool Hand Luke, on 09 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

i agree with some of the above posters about being okay with club pros being reinstated but there should be a thicker line drawn between those guys and the guys who played for a living. Also, I'd like to see the mid-am change their criteria to age 30 and above, or maybe at least 28?. The 25 yo fresh out of college golf should not be a mid-am imo.

I do agree the age should go up to 30.

25 is too young.  22 year old kicks around the minis after college is just old enough to get reinstated in time for the Mid Am and give it a roll again.

Ages of most 10 recent winners of the US Mid Am at the time of victory, starting with the most recent (2016) winner. Also included is whether or not the player was a true amateur or reinstated Am. I've labeled Smith's win's just as an FYI that the same guy won it three times.

Based on this list, I'd posit that the bigger problem is the pro's turning around and playing amateur golf than the 20 somethings. I actually think it's a good thing to have the 25 year old's in there to keep them engaged in the game.

26
37 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am
51 - Reinstated Am
34 - Nathan Smith
54
32 - Nathan Smith
31 - Nathan Smith
39 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am

I like it.  Thanks for posting something logical and some good food for thought.

My feelings come from playing against some guys that could win our state Mid Am.  The guys between 25 and 30 seem that they would mostly still be thinking of taking a US Open invite and Masters invite and parlaying it into some kind of status where I think the 30+ year olds would just value the experience as they seem to accept that the ship has sailed and just hope for a Crump Cup invite ;)

This is good to see, thanks. However, I think a better reflection would be looking at the average (median) age of the field. I didn't see any demographic info listed on the usga website... perhaps someone smarter than me can dig that up.
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#50 Matt J

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 11:00 AM

I'd bet it skews lower than you'd think.  I don't think a lot of Mid Am level players drop away from the game for good between 22 and 25, but I could be wrong.

I guess my point being it could take 3 years to figure out you're not going to make it.  The whole point is to have something after college golf for the true amateur.  Maybe 28 would be a better compromise?

The club where I play hosts the biggest amateur match play tournament in the country.  A lot of the top players including the winner this year are reinstated.  I have a friend who's trying to restore status after a run at the Champions Tour.  I guess I just don't get the issue.  Like Ouimet with the sporting goods business, who cares?

You can't eliminate a guy with a trust fund.  That's who the rules were created to protect.  I'd say if you don't cash more than $25k a year in checks, who cares?  That's not a livable wage anyways.


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#51 jll62

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:07 PM

 Drudersh, on 09 October 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

 Cool Hand Luke, on 09 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

i agree with some of the above posters about being okay with club pros being reinstated but there should be a thicker line drawn between those guys and the guys who played for a living. Also, I'd like to see the mid-am change their criteria to age 30 and above, or maybe at least 28?. The 25 yo fresh out of college golf should not be a mid-am imo.

I do agree the age should go up to 30.

25 is too young.  22 year old kicks around the minis after college is just old enough to get reinstated in time for the Mid Am and give it a roll again.

Ages of most 10 recent winners of the US Mid Am at the time of victory, starting with the most recent (2016) winner. Also included is whether or not the player was a true amateur or reinstated Am. I've labeled Smith's win's just as an FYI that the same guy won it three times.

Based on this list, I'd posit that the bigger problem is the pro's turning around and playing amateur golf than the 20 somethings. I actually think it's a good thing to have the 25 year old's in there to keep them engaged in the game.

26
37 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am
51 - Reinstated Am
34 - Nathan Smith
54
32 - Nathan Smith
31 - Nathan Smith
39 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am

Not all reinstated ams are equal. I'm good friends with the 2015 Mid Am champ and while it's true that he turned pro after a great D3 college career, he did absolutely nothing of note trying to play professionally. He quickly got reinstated and is just as much of an amateur today as I am; he just happens to be a little better. There's no reason a guy like him shouldn't be allowed to play.

And while we're talking about your list, what's crazy is that even though you were trying to call out Nathan Smith, showing the last 10 years actually short changes him since he also won in 2003. Amazing career.
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#52 raynorfan1

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:15 PM

IMHO if you're going to reinstate players, the whole charade of "amateurism" is dead. What is this the championship of: best golfers among those not currently good enough to make a living playing golf?

I think they should scrap the whole thing and make it an open event with no prize money.

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#53 golfandfishing

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:39 PM

 raynorfan1, on 11 October 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

IMHO if you're going to reinstate players, the whole charade of "amateurism" is dead. What is this the championship of: best golfers among those not currently good enough to make a living playing golf?

I think they should scrap the whole thing and make it an open event with no prize money.

In a few years Jordan Spieth, Justin Thomas and the rest of their graduating class will dominate the mid am?

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#54 Drudersh

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:17 PM

 jll62, on 11 October 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

 Drudersh, on 09 October 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

 Matt J, on 09 October 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

 Cool Hand Luke, on 09 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

i agree with some of the above posters about being okay with club pros being reinstated but there should be a thicker line drawn between those guys and the guys who played for a living. Also, I'd like to see the mid-am change their criteria to age 30 and above, or maybe at least 28?. The 25 yo fresh out of college golf should not be a mid-am imo.

I do agree the age should go up to 30.

25 is too young.  22 year old kicks around the minis after college is just old enough to get reinstated in time for the Mid Am and give it a roll again.

Ages of most 10 recent winners of the US Mid Am at the time of victory, starting with the most recent (2016) winner. Also included is whether or not the player was a true amateur or reinstated Am. I've labeled Smith's win's just as an FYI that the same guy won it three times.

Based on this list, I'd posit that the bigger problem is the pro's turning around and playing amateur golf than the 20 somethings. I actually think it's a good thing to have the 25 year old's in there to keep them engaged in the game.

26
37 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am
51 - Reinstated Am
34 - Nathan Smith
54
32 - Nathan Smith
31 - Nathan Smith
39 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am

Not all reinstated ams are equal. I'm good friends with the 2015 Mid Am champ and while it's true that he turned pro after a great D3 college career, he did absolutely nothing of note trying to play professionally. He quickly got reinstated and is just as much of an amateur today as I am; he just happens to be a little better. There's no reason a guy like him shouldn't be allowed to play.

And while we're talking about your list, what's crazy is that even though you were trying to call out Nathan Smith, showing the last 10 years actually short changes him since he also won in 2003. Amazing career.

Not trying to call Nathan out at all and I agree, absolutely amazing career. Throw in there that he won the US 4-Ball as well. Just trying to point out that while 5/10 previous winners were reinstated Ams, 3/5 true Ams that won were the same guy. So when you look at it that way, in that last 10 years, 5 reinstated Ams have won it and only 3 different true Amateurs have won it.
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#55 lsu_atx_golf

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:58 PM

I had a buddy get his amateur status back last week.  He tried to play professionally after college, but it didn't work out.  He's been working in commercial real estate for 4 years now and maybe plays golf twice a month.  He'll still go out and shoot a bogey free 67 on a 7k yd course he's never seen before.  The dude is just talented, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to try to compete in midams, fourballs, etc.

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#56 jll62

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:35 PM

 Drudersh, on 11 October 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

Not trying to call Nathan out at all and I agree, absolutely amazing career. Throw in there that he won the US 4-Ball as well. Just trying to point out that while 5/10 previous winners were reinstated Ams, 3/5 true Ams that won were the same guy. So when you look at it that way, in that last 10 years, 5 reinstated Ams have won it and only 3 different true Amateurs have won it.

Bad choice of words by me. When I said call out, I meant it as a positive and was just pointing out that his career looks amazing in a 10 year window and it's hard to believe it's even better yet.

My point about my buddy who won in 2015 stands, however. Full time job, young kids, doesn't have nearly as much time to play/practice as he'd like. The only difference between he and I is that he floundered around on the mini tours for 2 years and I didn't. That's why I don't like the phrase "true amateur" very much. To me, an amateur is someone who doesn't make their living playing the game. I see no distinction between someone who is reinstated and someone who never turned professional.

 lsu_atx_golf, on 11 October 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

I had a buddy get his amateur status back last week.  He tried to play professionally after college, but it didn't work out.  He's been working in commercial real estate for 4 years now and maybe plays golf twice a month.  He'll still go out and shoot a bogey free 67 on a 7k yd course he's never seen before.  The dude is just talented, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to try to compete in midams, fourballs, etc.

Exactly!
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#57 raynorfan1

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:47 AM

Since the topic here is that of amateurism and professionalism (and eligibility for events on that basis) I found this quote from Nathan Smith's company CEO interesting (from USGA.com):

Winters allow Smith to spend more time in the office, but once spring and summer arrive, Gustave readily admits that not seeing him coming through the corporate doors is much better for all concerned.
“The way we’re structured, he’s not being better served by being here,” Gustave said. “He’s better getting the exposure that he does, meeting people and getting in front of potential clients that he might not otherwise. He’s a great representative and ambassador for the firm. A lot of his contemporaries are envious, but I tell them that when they’ve played in the Masters twice, won [three] Mid-Ams and have guys lined up wanting to play with them like Nathan does, then they can be envious.


So, in a nutshell, "we don't care what he does, we pay him to play golf with our clients"...How does that reconcile with:

6.1 Except as provided in the Rules, an amateur golfer of golf skill or reputation must not use that skill or reputation for any financial gain.

Edited by raynorfan1, 12 October 2017 - 08:48 AM.


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#58 mocokid

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:00 AM

HARVEY WARD--- he had job at Lowery's CAL car dealership and was stripped of his amateur status after confessing to the USGA (without counsel).  Similar ?  Seems like this guy's job and firm were built around the idea of keeping a top amateur golfer busy golfing. Oh how things have changed.

Edited by mocokid, 12 October 2017 - 09:04 AM.


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#59 Matt J

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:15 AM

We need a great defender of amateurism.  I gave up after the USA built the NBA "dream team" in basketball.

Seems like there is some class elitism behind it historically anyways.  I kind of agree, but think there should be some monetary cap for actual prize money.

I'd hate to see a kid comeback and win the US Amateur after a few years on the Web.com simply because he got beat every year in college.

How could you ever separate financial gain from the game of golf?  I'd imagine some competency is a part of quite a few sales jobs.

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#60 Llortamaisey

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:23 AM

Good thing the USGA doesn’t take away amateur status for gambling. The Mid-Am winner might not be able to break 80.


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