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US Mid Am


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#1 Doc420

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 02:11 PM

The Mid Am started today, and I read a story that said 43% of the field are former Pro's. It just made me think that it's getting too easy to get your Am status back. One guy got his back twice. I know most of these guys were never more than club pro's, but come on.

Edited by Doc420, 07 October 2017 - 02:12 PM.


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#2 Hawkeye77

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 04:13 PM

Pro just means you are playing as a profession, so to speak, if you aren't doing that any more then you are an am. Don't see any issue - some are better, some aren't.
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#3 ezpz

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 04:31 PM

don't have too many problems with it. You'd be suprised how jealous most pros who aren't makeing money playing are of the amateur schedule and it doesn't suprise me that they are eager to get back into it when they aren't teaching any longer.

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#4 cardoustie

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 04:36 PM

When Dillard Pruitt- a PGA tour winner- got his card back and won the Canadian Mid-Am (a field I was in) I gave up trying to understand the process
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#5 BNGL

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 06:35 PM

I don't have a problem with it once, no matter what level of professional golf you have played (no multiple tour winner, or major champion will do it at least I don't think so), but the second time is what gets me. If you get an status back, then play pro again you shouldn't be able to return to amateur events.


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#6 disco111

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 04:55 PM

The subject has been discussed before and while most folks have little heart burn with someone regaining their AM status, I personally am not one of them. My viewpoint is that while I worked 40+ a week and possibly shifts and weekends, they put in those same hours either playing/practicing or being around and involved with golf for a living. I'm of the opinion that once pro, you stay a pro. You had your opportunity, lets not rain on those that didn't and/or couldn't. It's bad enough that the college crew (which I also consider to be on a pro level - full ride just to play golf) has the AM ranks locked, now you reach the mid am or the senior am and now you have to deal with pro's that want back in.

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#7 Darth Putter

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 05:01 PM

Not only does the winner get an invite to The Masters, you also now get a spot in the US Open. The US Junior Amateur champion will also automatically get a spot.
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#8 golfandfishing

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 05:16 PM

View PostDoc420, on 07 October 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

The Mid Am started today, and I read a story that said 43% of the field are former Pro's. It just made me think that it's getting too easy to get your Am status back. One guy got his back twice. I know most of these guys were never more than club pro's, but come on.

not sure how itís ďgetting too easyĒ.  The criteria is unchanged for an extremely long time.

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#9 golfandfishing

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 05:44 PM

View Postdisco111, on 08 October 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

The subject has been discussed before and while most folks have little heart burn with someone regaining their AM status, I personally am not one of them. My viewpoint is that while I worked 40+ a week and possibly shifts and weekends, they put in those same hours either playing/practicing or being around and involved with golf for a living. I'm of the opinion that once pro, you stay a pro. You had your opportunity, lets not rain on those that didn't and/or couldn't. It's bad enough that the college crew (which I also consider to be on a pro level - full ride just to play golf) has the AM ranks locked, now you reach the mid am or the senior am and now you have to deal with pro's that want back in.

I can tell you that as a reinstated am your thoughts of the golf profession are largely inaccurate. While you worked 40 hour weeks, the occasional extra shift and sometimes a weekend we worked 70 hour/ 6 day weeks, every weekend and every holiday and played way less than golf than guys who were selling insurance or working at accounting firms. My game, and nearly every club pro I know, was in decline from our amateur days. Club pros tend to get it back if they are still in the business around 30. But saying a guy who wanted to be in the golf business but left for a better profession canít play in competition any more is like saying a guy who worked at McDonalds shouldnít be entering the chili cook off at the county fair.

Talking about guys who played years on web/pga tour I agree is different and I think USGA requires an extra year on the sidelines for them. But guys who are assistant pros while they figure out long term careers arenít gaining tournament experience or racking up range/playing time more than amateurs who are playing competitive golf, in fact it is far less.

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#10 DLiver

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 05:52 PM

View Postgolfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Talking about guys who played years on web/pga tour I agree is different and I think USGA requires an extra year on the sidelines for them.

Wow a whole extra year! Jeepers well that should even things out with the guys who work for a living and play golf a couple times a week.


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#11 golfandfishing

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 06:17 PM

View PostDLiver, on 08 October 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

View Postgolfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Talking about guys who played years on web/pga tour I agree is different and I think USGA requires an extra year on the sidelines for them.

Wow a whole extra year! Jeepers well that should even things out with the guys who work for a living and play golf a couple times a week.

Yeah, not really disagreeing that the 3 year wait for them isnít really a hit to their confidence but what do you do?  Tell them they have to play left handed?

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#12 jli2636

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 06:31 PM

View Postgolfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 08 October 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

View Postgolfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Talking about guys who played years on web/pga tour I agree is different and I think USGA requires an extra year on the sidelines for them.

Wow a whole extra year! Jeepers well that should even things out with the guys who work for a living and play golf a couple times a week.

Yeah, not really disagreeing that the 3 year wait for them isn’t really a hit to their confidence but what do you do?  Tell them they have to play left handed?

I think if you have had any status on any pro tour higher than mini tours(I would consider PGA Canada/Latin America and above for this) you shouldn't be allowed to have your am status back. Earning status on these tours means you put in the time and effort to make this a living playing professionally. You were a professional golfer, not a golf professional and there is a HUGE difference. Also if you have won at any of the above levels you should 100% not be able to get status back. I don't have any problem with club pro guys getting their status back.

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#13 golfandfishing

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 06:44 PM

Thatís certainly a compelling point of view, canít say itís incorrect.

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#14 Shilgy

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:18 PM

View Postgolfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Thatís certainly a compelling point of view, canít say itís incorrect.
Agree, I certainly have no issue with the guys that worked the pro shop deciding it's not the life for them and getting their am status back. Guys that were successful on the larger mini tours like Gateway,  Hooters, Pepsi and the like (not sure of current names) it gets a bit murkier. But as a guy posted above Pruitt? Gary Nicklaus? C'mon man.
  And it's a growing issue imo because more and more decent players are coming out of college thinking they can do it. In the past you had more Trip Kuehnes that stated am.
  In Minnesota we had a great am for years. Reinstated from pro status John Harris dominated Minnesota amateur golf for years, and won the US ('93)?  Then turned out again and won on the Senior Tour.
  Maybe the USGA should start a new level of events. The Quasi-Am Tour?
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#15 vsabre

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:14 AM

View Postgolfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

View Postdisco111, on 08 October 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

The subject has been discussed before and while most folks have little heart burn with someone regaining their AM status, I personally am not one of them. My viewpoint is that while I worked 40+ a week and possibly shifts and weekends, they put in those same hours either playing/practicing or being around and involved with golf for a living. I'm of the opinion that once pro, you stay a pro. You had your opportunity, lets not rain on those that didn't and/or couldn't. It's bad enough that the college crew (which I also consider to be on a pro level - full ride just to play golf) has the AM ranks locked, now you reach the mid am or the senior am and now you have to deal with pro's that want back in.

I can tell you that as a reinstated am your thoughts of the golf profession are largely inaccurate. While you worked 40 hour weeks, the occasional extra shift and sometimes a weekend we worked 70 hour/ 6 day weeks, every weekend and every holiday and played way less than golf than guys who were selling insurance or working at accounting firms. My game, and nearly every club pro I know, was in decline from our amateur days. Club pros tend to get it back if they are still in the business around 30. But saying a guy who wanted to be in the golf business but left for a better profession can't play in competition any more is like saying a guy who worked at McDonalds shouldn't be entering the chili cook off at the county fair.

Talking about guys who played years on web/pga tour I agree is different and I think USGA requires an extra year on the sidelines for them. But guys who are assistant pros while they figure out long term careers aren't gaining tournament experience or racking up range/playing time more than amateurs who are playing competitive golf, in fact it is far less.

Exactly my experience, word for word. College player then club pro for just under 5 years. Left the golf business after completing all the requirements, playing and educational, right up to Class A. The money and freedom was just too compelling outside of golf. Took just over a year to get reinstated and by then you're just the shiny toy at Member-Guests and Charity Scrambles. That was just over 30 years ago and would not change a thing on those decisions, but competitive golf was gone at that level. I applaud those that can do it, but for me, when golf moved down the priority list my life got better........

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#16 oldschoolrocker

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:30 AM

I think if we all take a look, and doesn't need to be a hard one at that, then we all know, if we've been involved in the game for a while, at least a few guys that have went this route.
  Why should they be penalized for changing professions, especially if it is with regards to changing their quality of life for the better.
  Most of the working stiff pros I know work way more, and make, and play, way less than I did before I retired.
  Still my hats off to both groups, the ones that keep their status, and the ones that have moved on.  I can continue to learn from both.

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#17 golfandfishing

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:06 AM

ď And it's a growing issue imo because more and more decent players are coming out of college thinking they can do it. In the past you had more Trip Kuehnes that stated am. Ē

The opportunity to actually make money playing professional golf has increased drastically. 30 years how many guys in the world showed a monetary gain on the year?  Being generous letís say 200 worldwide in 1987 made money on the pga, euro and Asian tours, everyone else lost money on the year. If you were 90 on the euro money list you slept in a car that you borrowed/stole for the week. Now you can make a healthy career out of being a journeyman on the web.com tour. Tee it up money, hosted lodging for the week, player dining and pro am money can keep a guy afloat for a few years, kids with ordinary college careers give it a go now. In the 80ís they would have gotten their series 6 license and joined their dadís country club instead.

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#18 disco111

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:06 AM

I have really no qualms with a club pro or an assistant changing professions and regaining AM status, I should have made that separation in my original post, but there is a caveat. The PGA offers their own tournaments for their members, which in my opinion, equates to another professional tour. If you cashed, then no reinstatement. You fall into the same category as the big tours, at least IMO. You wanted to see if the golf profession was for you and after a few years you found out it wasn't, no problem.

Now I've been in and around golf for over 50 yrs and I have never seen any head or assistant pro working 70+ hrs a week. Now I have seen them playing in member tournaments, giving lessons and plenty of personal range time. As stated above, playing in sectional tournaments and state opens and even some local mini tour events. In order to even get your card, you have to pass a players ability test, so your well ahead of the 9 to 5 guy who has aspirations of trying to play in any USGA event.

Mickey D's and a chili cook off............ :WTF: :cheesy:

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#19 Cool Hand Luke

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:29 AM

i agree with some of the above posters about being okay with club pros being reinstated but there should be a thicker line drawn between those guys and the guys who played for a living. Also, I'd like to see the mid-am change their criteria to age 30 and above, or maybe at least 28?. The 25 yo fresh out of college golf should not be a mid-am imo.
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#20 Matt J

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:43 AM

The whole point is that you don't do both at the same time, which some guys do off the records playing for cash bets.

Easy to me... are you paying your bills playing golf?

Divide career earnings by national median annual wages and decide how long the guy has to sit out.

Those whining should practice more.  Reminds me of the guys who sandbag our local qualifying to get in a higher flight.  You really want consolation flight crystal?


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#21 Matt J

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 11:45 AM

View PostCool Hand Luke, on 09 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

i agree with some of the above posters about being okay with club pros being reinstated but there should be a thicker line drawn between those guys and the guys who played for a living. Also, I'd like to see the mid-am change their criteria to age 30 and above, or maybe at least 28?. The 25 yo fresh out of college golf should not be a mid-am imo.

I do agree the age should go up to 30.

25 is too young.  22 year old kicks around the minis after college is just old enough to get reinstated in time for the Mid Am and give it a roll again.

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#22 golfandfishing

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:10 PM

ď. In order to even get your card, you have to pass a players ability test, so your well ahead of the 9 to 5 guy who has aspirations of trying to play in any USGA event.ď

Hardly any skill is required to pass the PAT. If A 9 to 5 guy is looking at USGA events he can pass the PAT with ease. It is far, far more difficult to qualify for a USGA event than pass the PAT.

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#23 From_Parts_Unknown

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:23 PM

While we are at it, can we ban these people from the mid-am too?
  • works in insurance
  • has a trust fund or sugar momma
  • doesn't have children or a wife (Children must live in the US.  Just because you had fun on Spring break in college doesn't mean Pedro and Lupe count for purposes of the mid-am).
  • anyone who is able to practice (outside of playing) more than 3 hours a week
  • anyone who plays more than 3 times in a given week for a 12 month period
  • has a golf simulator at their home or work
  • has a private jet
If you ban these golfers, I have a legitimate shot at winning every year.

Edited by From_Parts_Unknown, 09 October 2017 - 12:25 PM.


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#24 disco111

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 12:25 PM

View Postgolfandfishing, on 09 October 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

". In order to even get your card, you have to pass a players ability test, so your well ahead of the 9 to 5 guy who has aspirations of trying to play in any USGA event."

Hardly any skill is required to pass the PAT. If A 9 to 5 guy is looking at USGA events he can pass the PAT with ease. It is far, far more difficult to qualify for a USGA event than pass the PAT.

I guess it depends on what part of the country your in...........I've seen guys, decent sticks, take the PAT 2 or 3 times. Anyway, whatever we discuss / debate, will have absolutely no influence on the USGA and their reinstatement position. My opinion is exactly that, my opinion, if folks agree with it fine, if they don't, also fine.......... :beach:

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#25 golfandfishing

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:02 PM

Curious why it would have to do with the area you live in? Passing the PAT isnít a competition against a field, it is simply a math equation. Course rating x 2 + 15 = target score. 75 guys can pass at once, or none at all. Iíve never met anyone I consider a stick that was unable to pass on the first try without some sort of anomaly- injury, made a fluke 12 somewhere, was DQíd, etc.  For anyone that can shoot 75 or better every time out its a walk in the park. Qualifying for the US Am is extremely difficult however.

Edited by golfandfishing, 09 October 2017 - 08:07 PM.


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#26 Llortamaisey

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:11 PM

View PostFrom_Parts_Unknown, on 09 October 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

While we are at it, can we ban these people from the mid-am too?
  • works in insurance
  • has a trust fund or sugar momma
  • doesn't have children or a wife (Children must live in the US.  Just because you had fun on Spring break in college doesn't mean Pedro and Lupe count for purposes of the mid-am).
  • anyone who is able to practice (outside of playing) more than 3 hours a week
  • anyone who plays more than 3 times in a given week for a 12 month period
  • has a golf simulator at their home or work
  • has a private jet
If you ban these golfers, I have a legitimate shot at winning every year.

I’d rather ban these people than the former pros.

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#27 Matt J

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:28 PM

Passing the PAT and playing in the Mid Am are two different stratospheres of play.  Heck, there's even one maybe two levels in between.

BTW, the guys that barely meet the handicap requirement, could struggle with that PAT if they crumble under pressure, but they're not sniffing the jocks of the top 85% of the field, even at the state level.  PAT is break 75 territory, Mid Am is break 65 mentality for a casual round.

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#28 bladehunter

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:31 PM

View Postjli2636, on 08 October 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

View Postgolfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

View PostDLiver, on 08 October 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

View Postgolfandfishing, on 08 October 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Talking about guys who played years on web/pga tour I agree is different and I think USGA requires an extra year on the sidelines for them.

Wow a whole extra year! Jeepers well that should even things out with the guys who work for a living and play golf a couple times a week.

Yeah, not really disagreeing that the 3 year wait for them isnít really a hit to their confidence but what do you do?  Tell them they have to play left handed?

I think if you have had any status on any pro tour higher than mini tours(I would consider PGA Canada/Latin America and above for this) you shouldn't be allowed to have your am status back. Earning status on these tours means you put in the time and effort to make this a living playing professionally. You were a professional golfer, not a golf professional and there is a HUGE difference. Also if you have won at any of the above levels you should 100% not be able to get status back. I don't have any problem with club pro guys getting their status back.

Normally I might be of the same mind.   But I can't help but to say that your mistaken if you think any good or top am isn't practicing everyday of the week 365 days a year . Even if it's jut rolling putts indoors on icy days.  If you aren't  doing that you may as well quit.   Just not much if any difference between a pro and a top level am as far as practice time goes. Which seems to be your main gripe with a pro.    Especially if that top am is older and has a ton of tournament experience .    

It's a pipe dream to think that if " only I had the time they do " yadda yadda yadda. ....,truth is the top talent is born that way.  Could go on a month long bender , roll out of bed and walk to the tee and shoot under par.  Practice time is just to stay sharp.  

I would be ok with any pro waiting1 year and getting reinstated.  Once.  I do agree that more than once is rediculius.   No back and forth.
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#29 bladehunter

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:34 PM

View PostFrom_Parts_Unknown, on 09 October 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

While we are at it, can we ban these people from the mid-am too?
  • works in insurance
  • has a trust fund or sugar momma
  • doesn't have children or a wife (Children must live in the US.  Just because you had fun on Spring break in college doesn't mean Pedro and Lupe count for purposes of the mid-am).
  • anyone who is able to practice (outside of playing) more than 3 hours a week
  • anyone who plays more than 3 times in a given week for a 12 month period
  • has a golf simulator at their home or work
  • has a private jet
If you ban these golfers, I have a legitimate shot at winning every year.


Hey man. Don't fault me because you don't have your priorities In line.  Practice more than 3 hours a week.  Indeed.  if you don't put in more than that what's the point !  


Of course I'm joking if you where and serious if you weren't ! ( sarcasm meter is still in the shop ).
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#30 Drudersh

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:57 PM

View PostMatt J, on 09 October 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

View PostCool Hand Luke, on 09 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

i agree with some of the above posters about being okay with club pros being reinstated but there should be a thicker line drawn between those guys and the guys who played for a living. Also, I'd like to see the mid-am change their criteria to age 30 and above, or maybe at least 28?. The 25 yo fresh out of college golf should not be a mid-am imo.

I do agree the age should go up to 30.

25 is too young.  22 year old kicks around the minis after college is just old enough to get reinstated in time for the Mid Am and give it a roll again.

Ages of most 10 recent winners of the US Mid Am at the time of victory, starting with the most recent (2016) winner. Also included is whether or not the player was a true amateur or reinstated Am. I've labeled Smith's win's just as an FYI that the same guy won it three times.

Based on this list, I'd posit that the bigger problem is the pro's turning around and playing amateur golf than the 20 somethings. I actually think it's a good thing to have the 25 year old's in there to keep them engaged in the game.

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37 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am
51 - Reinstated Am
34 - Nathan Smith
54
32 - Nathan Smith
31 - Nathan Smith
39 - Reinstated Am
37 - Reinstated Am

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