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So lets talk inside takeaway....where do I start?


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#181 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:27 AM

 wmblake2000, on 12 October 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

Geoff I didn't see slow motion - which might be good fortune because I know just enough to be dangerous. What I do think is a) you're working on it and b) the feel of the shape you want hasn't really dawned on you yet.

One of the realities for me in learning is I do the same errant move over and over and over, thinking that surely this new feel or intention will change the pattern. What happens is it's like eliminating a million dead end paths and occasionally making a slight move in a better direction. Then often I will just 'get it' in a flash. Maybe because I really finally give up my beliefs in an old familiar feel that is almost like second nature. And once I get it this way, it pretty much stays 'gotten' Hard work, no doubt about it.

Im awake because I have a poor little tyke who can’t sleep because he has a cast on his arm.  I know Geoff is across the date line.  I know you’re not away.  What are you doing up?  :-)

Geoff, you’re doing what you’re supposed to.  Cleaning up issues as they happen.  Setup and backswing normalizing.  Transition is next.

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#182 GeoffDickson

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:42 AM

Monte,

Hope the little fella gets well soon...I think I have a lot more work to do on the backswing...transition will have to wait a few weeks :)

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#183 jerebear21

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:39 AM

GD, can you link your topic with iTeach from 2 years ago?  I remember reading it and it was like an encylopedia of notes you kept.  What happened during that time?  you just stop?
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#184 wmblake2000

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:16 AM

 MonteScheinblum, on 12 October 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

 wmblake2000, on 12 October 2017 - 02:01 AM, said:

Geoff I didn't see slow motion - which might be good fortune because I know just enough to be dangerous. What I do think is a) you're working on it and b) the feel of the shape you want hasn't really dawned on you yet.

One of the realities for me in learning is I do the same errant move over and over and over, thinking that surely this new feel or intention will change the pattern. What happens is it's like eliminating a million dead end paths and occasionally making a slight move in a better direction. Then often I will just 'get it' in a flash. Maybe because I really finally give up my beliefs in an old familiar feel that is almost like second nature. And once I get it this way, it pretty much stays 'gotten' Hard work, no doubt about it.

Im awake because I have a poor little tyke who can’t sleep because he has a cast on his arm.  I know Geoff is across the date line.  I know you’re not away.  What are you doing up?  :-)

Geoff, you’re doing what you’re supposed to.  Cleaning up issues as they happen.  Setup and backswing normalizing.  Transition is next.

Late nite random posts. I fell asleep immediately after writing that brilliant, life-changing bit.

Hope your son fell asleep... the joys of parenting.
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#185 Cwebb

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:29 AM

It would be very helpful for you to record some shorter swings.  Lets see if the same action from the top is still there, when you make what "feels like" a half length swing, where your left arm stops at about 9 O'clock.

In all of the videos you've posted, even the ones you've described as smooth wedges, I've yet to see a shorter length back swing

Edited by Cwebb, 12 October 2017 - 11:29 AM.


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#186 GeoffDickson

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:31 PM

 jerebear21, on 12 October 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

GD, can you link your topic with iTeach from 2 years ago?  I remember reading it and it was like an encylopedia of notes you kept.  What happened during that time?  you just stop?

Here is my Iteach lesson thread from June 2016

http://www.golfwrx.c...ys-with-iteach/

If you look at any of my swings from then, all of them are inside takeaways.

I think the first sentence in this note is the important one:

Posted Image

Edited by GeoffDickson, 12 October 2017 - 02:32 PM.


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#187 Cwebb

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:46 PM

On your "3/4" swing from that thread from last year, your downswing shaft plane is way different.  You were able to shallow the shaft all the way down to "in line with" your forearm.  This is what I've been trying to get at, with encouraging you to record some shorter back swings.

Makes me think you need to consider shortening your arm swing on all shots.  I think you've got "arm runout" where your arm swing is going past your turn range of motion

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#188 jerebear21

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:54 PM

GD, just saw the old post and saw your old swing; looks a touch under the plane but not extreme.  Dan had you working your right shoulder more down.  One of your notes was "external shoulder rotation on ds"; are you still working on that?   Did you follow up with him on your concerns of your "inside" takeaway?  My own personal experience with DC was left shoulder working more down with vertical wrist set and arms pushed out did the trick.  From there transition and so on.  Good luck, you're down to a 2.0 so everything else is just for looks.
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#189 moehogan

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:28 PM

 GeoffDickson, on 12 October 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

 jerebear21, on 12 October 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

GD, can you link your topic with iTeach from 2 years ago?  I remember reading it and it was like an encylopedia of notes you kept.  What happened during that time?  you just stop?

Here is my Iteach lesson thread from June 2016

http://www.golfwrx.c...ys-with-iteach/

If you look at any of my swings from then, all of them are inside takeaways.

I think the first sentence in this note is the important one:

Posted Image

I thought elbows were only capable of flexion and extension?

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#190 GeoffDickson

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:52 PM

 jerebear21, on 12 October 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

GD, just saw the old post and saw your old swing; looks a touch under the plane but not extreme.  Dan had you working your right shoulder more down.  One of your notes was "external shoulder rotation on ds"; are you still working on that?   Did you follow up with him on your concerns of your "inside" takeaway?  My own personal experience with DC was left shoulder working more down with vertical wrist set and arms pushed out did the trick.  From there transition and so on.  Good luck, you're down to a 2.0 so everything else is just for looks.

I improved in the 12 months after my Iteach lessons by getting the right shoulder down...but a few weeks ago it was becoming very difficult (if not impossible) to get the right shoulder down....that's when I knew that by takeaway had turned to custard. Low takeaway creates late arm lift and the momentum makes it impossible to get the right shoulder down on the DS.


I think that  getting "left shoulder down" on the BS is important for me also.

I have not reached out to Dan recently...I will in the next few weeks....But I think my solution is in the dirt....It is up to me to find it.

Edited by GeoffDickson, 12 October 2017 - 08:57 PM.


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#191 GeoffDickson

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:26 AM

 Cwebb, on 12 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

It would be very helpful for you to record some shorter swings.  Lets see if the same action from the top is still there, when you make what "feels like" a half length swing, where your left arm stops at about 9 O'clock.

In all of the videos you've posted, even the ones you've described as smooth wedges, I've yet to see a shorter length back swing

Half wedges....

https://youtu.be/ThB30JmFvzQ

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#192 Macogardy

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:10 AM

Same action , imo you swing your arms too  independently you need to allow your pivot to swing them.  
Try the Greg Mchatton drill,  grab the club with only your thumbs and forefinger and pointer fingers.  You will have so little strength on the club you won't be able to pick it up inside like you do.  You will only be able to swing it with your pivot, and because you are truly swinging,  it will stay 90 degrees to the force of your swing.  
Great drill you can actually hit it pretty good


Edited by Macogardy, 13 October 2017 - 01:26 AM.


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#193 GeoffDickson

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:13 AM

I didn't exactly hit the ball all that well this afternoon...and ball speed was down about 3-5mph..... but at least I was hitting the ball straight. I'll take that given all the swing changes this week.

Posted Image

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#194 David C

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 02:52 AM

Geoff, looking at your wedge swing just now it really struck me how much your body weight moves around.  I think your arms (and subsequent hand and club motion) are responding to how you move your body weight as opposed to the other way round.

It appears like you sway load your left knee in the back swing and not your right quad. Have you tried feeling your pivot ends with your right leg feeling more braced and 'loaded', weight gathered more on right arch-heel area of the foot, maintaining your height more? Swinging up to your head, staying stable with it, as opposed to moving your upper body down and forward?

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#195 jbw749

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:08 AM

Geoff, I had to feel like I added some left side bend early.
So as I push the club out at a 45 degree angle, simultaneously I'm adding left side bend. This makes it easier to vertically hinge the club too, I notice how light the club feels and how much more comfortable it is to rotate around my spine when I get it right.



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#196 Cwebb

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 11:46 AM

 GeoffDickson, on 13 October 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

 Cwebb, on 12 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

It would be very helpful for you to record some shorter swings.  Lets see if the same action from the top is still there, when you make what "feels like" a half length swing, where your left arm stops at about 9 O'clock.

In all of the videos you've posted, even the ones you've described as smooth wedges, I've yet to see a shorter length back swing

Half wedges....

https://youtu.be/ThB30JmFvzQ

If you compare these wedges with the "3/4" swings that you posted in the thread from last year, your shaft plane coming down is much different.  Last year, whatever you were doing, was getting the shaft to shallow down to your right forearm.  Every swing you've posted in this thread, has had the shaft steep well above your forearm.

The swing you make at 0:20 seconds into this "half wedge" video, is probably the best one to look at, because the swing is shorter and your left arm stops right at 9 O'clock.  Your arms are in a good position here, not too far inside,....and the steep shaft plane still happens coming down....

Now that we see that it still happens even on a 9 O'clock swing, the question is how are YOU going to shallow the shaft coming down?  Is it simply a sequence issue, or does something else need to change?

It's not the wrist set, it's not just the flat arm swing,....something else needs to happen, in order for you to shallow the shaft on plane.  For training, if you were going to try to "lay the shaft off" at the top and coming down, what would you physically do to make that happen?

For starters, we need to maintain or even increase right arm external rotation and left arm rotation.  If either of these starts "unwinding" from the top, the shaft will stand up steep on every downswing

Edited by Cwebb, 13 October 2017 - 12:01 PM.


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#197 GeoffDickson

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:25 PM

 Cwebb, on 13 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

 GeoffDickson, on 13 October 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

 Cwebb, on 12 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

It would be very helpful for you to record some shorter swings.  Lets see if the same action from the top is still there, when you make what "feels like" a half length swing, where your left arm stops at about 9 O'clock.

In all of the videos you've posted, even the ones you've described as smooth wedges, I've yet to see a shorter length back swing

Half wedges....

https://youtu.be/ThB30JmFvzQ

It's not the wrist set, it's not just the flat arm swing,....something else needs to happen, in order for you to shallow the shaft on plane.  For training, if you were going to try to "lay the shaft off" at the top and coming down, what would you physically do to make that happen?

For starters, we need to maintain or even increase right arm external rotation and left arm rotation.  If either of these starts "unwinding" from the top, the shaft will stand up steep on every downswing

I struggle with remembering my internal and external rotations.....but to answer your question, I would think lot more about leading with the right elbow and getting the right shoulder down (i.e. side bend).

Edited by GeoffDickson, 13 October 2017 - 09:40 PM.


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#198 Cwebb

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:34 PM

 GeoffDickson, on 13 October 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

 Cwebb, on 13 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:


It's not the wrist set, it's not just the flat arm swing,....something else needs to happen, in order for you to shallow the shaft on plane.  For training, if you were going to try to "lay the shaft off" at the top and coming down, what would you physically do to make that happen?

For starters, we need to maintain or even increase right arm external rotation and left arm rotation.  If either of these starts "unwinding" from the top, the shaft will stand up steep on every downswing

I struggle with remembering my internal and external rotations.....but to answer your question, I would think lot more about leading with the right elbow and getting the right shoulder down (i.e. side bend).

I did notice more "in" right elbow or "external rotation" in your wedge swing from last summer.  Would be interesting to see some short wedge swings with that emphasis

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#199 GeoffDickson

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:34 PM

Well that was an interesting round of golf.

Posted Image


Iteach sent me a PM last night with a suggestion (i.e. keep hands close to right leg on takeaway)...made that my only swing thought for the day.  Sliced everything off the tee.  Hit only two fairways...but the the Iteach tip worked wonders for both my short game and putting.

Such a fine line between par and +6, and today I was on the right side of that line.

Edited by GeoffDickson, 13 October 2017 - 09:55 PM.


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#200 GeoffDickson

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:37 PM

View Postjbw749, on 13 October 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Geoff, I had to feel like I added some left side bend early.
So as I push the club out at a 45 degree angle, simultaneously I'm adding left side bend. This makes it easier to vertically hinge the club too, I notice how light the club feels and how much more comfortable it is to rotate around my spine when I get it right.

I like the thought of more side bend...but as soon as anyone talks about pushing the club/hands away, I get nervous because I can't see to do that without the club sucking back to the inside.

Edited by GeoffDickson, 13 October 2017 - 09:37 PM.


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#201 Miggaletoe

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:56 PM

View PostGeoffDickson, on 13 October 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

Well that was an interesting round of golf.

Posted Image


Iteach sent me a PM last night with a suggestion (i.e. keep hands close to right leg on takeaway)...made that my only swing thought for the day.  Sliced everything off the tee.  Hit only two fairways...but the the Iteach tip worked wonders for both my short game and putting.

Such a fine line between par and +6, and today I was on the right side of that line.
I imagine your trying to fix things too quickly. Changes don't happen instantly. You need to do guided/focused practice with only that one intent for a while and completely ignore results. I'm not a pro but how you plan to change is more important than the drill your using. Odds are they all work for you if you approach it right.

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