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Rick Shiels Does 5 Years of Ping Drivers!


63 replies to this topic

#31 Pcola Ken

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 06:05 PM

I have really enjoyed his driver comparison tests.  The G30 LS has been in my bag for 2 seasons.  Ping drivers are definitely a love/hate thing due to their feel and sound.


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#32 argee1977

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 06:09 AM

Isn't this just proving what the likes of Crossfield has said about drivers for the last 5 years, they're all pretty much the same due to how they're regulated, some will work better for others due to the way they're designed, but that's about it.

It would be interesting to see this video with a little tweak though, as with the G driver, the launch was significantly lower i think, if the setups were tweaked to be a true comparison, then i'd think the results would be even closer.

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#33 mosesgolf

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:13 AM

RS moving the needle on used golf equipment. :D
I went and bought a G20 with a premium shaft.  Should be fun comparing to my latest and greatest 917D2.  I'm expecting about a 3 yard difference.  :D
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#34 dxdgenert

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 08:49 AM

I always felt like the G15 (K15, for me) was a better driver than the G20. It would have been interesting to see how it held up against the others. I'd guess, just as well!
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#35 chrismikayla

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:20 AM

 BYK, on 07 October 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Loved my G25 and Anser
Maybe the G20 is worth a try?
You would love the I25. Almost as forgiving as the G25 but low spin similar to the Anser

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#36 BYK

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:23 AM

 chrismikayla, on 08 October 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

 BYK, on 07 October 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Loved my G25 and Anser
Maybe the G20 is worth a try?
You would love the I25. Almost as forgiving as the G25 but low spin similar to the Anser

Yeah it's interesting
I tried it, and for whatever reason could not hit it at all
I figured the same thing, that I'd love it, given that I love the forgiveness of the G25 and the low spin on the Anser


How you like your G LS?  I tried that too lol, and it didn't knock out my Anser
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#37 Medic

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:23 AM

Played a marathon yesterday. (Paying the price today but had not seen my buddy in quite some time so worth it) He had just purchased a 915D and asked me if I wanted to try it out. Heck yeah!

It was cut short by an inch which was a little odd but the classic look was appealing (typical Titleist) and I hit it past my own driver every single time. Not by much mind you - maybe 3 yards or so, but definitely further down range.

I had to laugh at this result because once again, no matter how happy you are with what's in your bag and no matter how well you hit it something will always come along and tease you into thinking there is something better out there.

Rick's testing is clearly showing that when we buy "newer/better/longer" we are really founding that purchase on emotion (just got to have it!) and marketing.

You see, while I was hitting the 915 a bit past my own driver, my driver was in the FW every single time I did a comparison and the Titleist never was.

BTW, we did 54 holes. And, ironically, I shot the best round in the third one. Wasn't trying to kill the ball anymore because I couldn't.
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#38 Caddykev

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:42 AM

 skraly, on 07 October 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

 DeCuchi, on 06 October 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

I'd like to compare a Tisi, anser, i25, G lst, and G400 lst.
As far as I'm concerned, I've never hit a driver longer than the TiSiTec.  But it wasn't very forgiving and was very sensitive to getting the best JX hosel for your particular swing.  That JX hosel also made it a bite to try different shafts.  But if you could get it dialed in and could hit the sweet spot with decent swing it would really go.
Straightest driver too. I hit this last time I was home visiting my parent playing with my old college sticks and was just as long with it than I am with my current driver.

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#39 Kid Bro Sweets

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:53 AM

he should havethe mid-capper he uses on some of his iron videos on this to see how much variability there is on slight mis-hits.
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#40 Soloman1

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:03 AM

There's no point in testing mishits, since no one on GolfWRX has any.

I'm quitting at 6.022 x 10^23 posts.
Avogadro would be proud.

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#41 bluedot

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:23 AM

Interesting video, that I didn't find surprising.  I've always been a Ping driver user, and I've always gotten fitted and then tested new models against whatever I was using; I've had only three different drivers in my bag in the past decade.  (Original Rapture was replaced by a K15, and the K15 was replaced by a G30 SF.)

That said, I think it's important to note that Shiels is NOT testing what many of you seem to think he is testing.  What he IS testing is what has happened to distance with ONE particular setup (his own) for one particular golfer (him).  What he is NOT testing is the ability of a particular golfer, especially one with a slower, less efficient, and less consistent swing to get better results of distance and dispersion over time as technology changes.  And THAT, IMO, is a very, very different test.  So keep these two things in mind if you consider yourself married to any particular technology:

1. Shiels, to some extent, is an outlier in that his swing speed and smash factors are going to be in the top few percentage points, and so foregiveness TO HIM is maybe less of an issue than it is to us.  He was comparing the BEST five shots with each driver; I'd be sort of interested in a comparison of the WORST five shots with each, too.

2. Shiels was also using a loft and shaft combo that was close to identical across the board; the issue at a fitting, of course, is finding the loft and shaft combination that gives an individual the best results, and THAT can vary a lot.  I was fitted back in 2010 to the K15 in a 12* with an Aldila Serrano shaft; four years later the same fitter (one of Ping's best) fit me to the G30 SF in a 10* set to the big plus with the TFC 419 stock shaft.  My carry and overall distance numbers were better, primarily due to a significantly reduced spin rate.  It's worth noting that I went that second fitting fully expecting to be fit to a similar setup; that was NOT the case.  And it's possible that Shiels would have gotten different numbers (better OR worse) with less similar setups in the models from G30 thru G400 with the LS or SF heads and a different shaft, including aftermarkets.

In other words, the issue isn't really whether or not a newer generation of drivers performs differently with a pretty much identical setup; I think we all know that they will.  The issue for ANY golfer is what setup gives the best results for THEIR individual swing.  Tom Wishon (and others) have said many times that the great technological development of the last few years has NOT been clubheads or shafts, but rather the ability to match the golfer to the correct clubhead and shaft, and Shiels did NOT test that.

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#42 king_biscuit

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:16 PM

So if you have any of these drivers, you don't need to "upgrade."

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#43 TheBear95

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:57 PM

 Kid Bro Sweets, on 08 October 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

he should havethe mid-capper he uses on some of his iron videos on this to see how much variability there is on slight mis-hits.

That guy sucks.
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#44 Medic

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 02:09 PM

 TheBear95, on 08 October 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

 Kid Bro Sweets, on 08 October 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

he should havethe mid-capper he uses on some of his iron videos on this to see how much variability there is on slight mis-hits.

That guy sucks.

Respectfully disagree.

He has made some decent shots when Rick has taken him on the course. Not great but decent. And to do what he does under the pressure of knowing that Rick's videos are popular and will be seen by thousands - pretty impressive in my book.

Is he a great player? No.
Does he sometimes ramble a bit? Yeah, I guess so - but cannot know what Rick told him to say/do.
Are his reviews helpful? Yes they are. When taken into perspective for the purpose they are there to serve.
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#45 bluedot

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 02:13 PM

 king_biscuit, on 08 October 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

So if you have any of these drivers, you don't need to "upgrade."

Not necessarily, and that's my point above.  Assume that Shiels has an optimum loft and shaft for his swing; it isn't surprising that he gets essentially the same result over and over.  But for that to apply to any other golfer, they, too, would have to already have the optimum loft and shaft.  Not only that, but Shiels does nothing with dispersion in this video, not to mention either the LS or SF versions from the G30 on, or with changes in the face angle from the G25 on.

Also, this video doesn't prove that even a highly skilled player like Shiels couldn't have gotten more distance with a different setup; it only illustrates that with essentially the same setup, he got essentially the same results.  That isn't exactly groundbreaking research.


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#46 Night train

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 08:10 PM

I'm a huge Ping fan....... after reading this thread, I took my i25 driver out this morning to give it a whirl...........six shots later my Epic SZ was safely back in the bag.



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#47 mosesgolf

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 08:18 PM

RS may have convinced some to reverse ho.  :D
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#48 jonn443

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 09:15 PM

G20... who would have thought.

BEAST.

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#49 oakhill

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:26 AM

All the G20 drivers on ebay just went up 20%......thanks Rick !

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#50 glm

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:19 PM

 caniac6, on 07 October 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

I did a fitting for the G400 vs my G20. The results were so close, the fitter said he could not justify recommending the 400.

DITTO!


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#51 Medic

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:48 PM

 mosesgolf, on 08 October 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

RS may have convinced some to reverse ho.  :D

I think this is the most classic line on this site I have read in awhile.

Reverse ho.

Imagine the definition in a dictionary:
1. Order from cowardly cavalry officer in an effort to retreat in haste.

2. To purchase something, primarily in the way of golf equipment, that you once owned, parted with and then decided that you needed once again.

3. A rare situation where the prostitute actually pays the customer for services rendered.
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#52 jimb6golf

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:53 PM

Have loved my G20 driver since I got it several years ago.  Like someone said earlier I've demo'd all the new Ping drivers and only the G400 has a chance to replace it and even then I hit my G20 better at first.  I found the bulge and roll face a little difficult to get used to compared to the face on the G20, but eventually was able to hit it pretty well and even slightly longer (not much though).  It's funny hearing that the G400 driver sounds so much better when I found it to sound very similar to the G20.  Guess I just found a good driver originally.  Really enjoy seeing these latest Shiels' videos which really show that there isn't much difference in the new drivers each year.  Basically the companies are just trying to make their drivers more stable and forgiving as there isn't much more distance out there anymore.  I do like the innovation found in the G400 and the Callaway Epic drivers as opposed to the other brands.

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#53 bluedot

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:10 PM

 jimb6golf, on 09 October 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

Have loved my G20 driver since I got it several years ago.  Like someone said earlier I've demo'd all the new Ping drivers and only the G400 has a chance to replace it and even then I hit my G20 better at first.  I found the bulge and roll face a little difficult to get used to compared to the face on the G20, but eventually was able to hit it pretty well and even slightly longer (not much though).  It's funny hearing that the G400 driver sounds so much better when I found it to sound very similar to the G20.  Guess I just found a good driver originally.  Really enjoy seeing these latest Shiels' videos which really show that there isn't much difference in the new drivers each year.  Basically the companies are just trying to make their drivers more stable and forgiving as there isn't much more distance out there anymore.  I do like the innovation found in the G400 and the Callaway Epic drivers as opposed to the other brands.

Again, I think it's important to realize what Shiels did (and did NOT) compare.

He DID compare the distance of his five best shots with essentially identical setups, and found (to nobody's surprise, I think) that distance hasn't changed FOR HIM since the G20.

He did NOT compare any of the following:
1. Different shafts
2. Different lofts
3. Different hosel settings
4. The LS vs. the SF vs. the standard heads in the G30, G, or G400
5. Dispersion
6. Forgiveness

Hey, I found the video interesting, too.  But if you went to a fitting and the fitter gave you one loft, one shaft, and one shaft flex in each of five drivers and then told you that you were hitting all of them the same distance, would that be surprising?  Would you consider that to be a completed fitting process.  I think not...

In Shiels defense, he never said that he was going to be comparing anything other than what he did; he was simply trying to see what had happened over the last five years of Ping drivers to launch conditions and distance with HIS setup.  But taking the ball and running with it by thinking that this video, interesting though it may be, means much to your swing, or that there isn't a better driver out there for you would be a misuse of the information.

23

#54 glm

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:15 PM

You can't go wrong with the fairway woods either. IMO

24

#55 starrman77

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:26 PM

Drivers may be all the same to Rick but I just got a G SF Tec and is longer and straiter than my G15.

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#56 bill1710

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:32 PM

This test is dumb
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#57 agoose10

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:13 PM

 bill1710, on 11 October 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

This test is dumb

I don’t post often but I have to say... bill1710 really makes a great argument here. I mean, he supports his thesis with facts and data. Very positive response that contributes to the community. Thanks bill!

Edit* bill1710

Edited by agoose10, 11 October 2017 - 07:29 PM.

Titleist 915D3 9.5* - Fuji Speeder 661 X-Flex
Titleist 904F 15* - Aldila VS Proto S-Flex
Titleist 915H 21* - Diamana Blueboard S-Flex
Taylormade Tour Preferred '09 4-PW
Titleist Vokey 52*
Titleist Vokey SM6 58*
Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport 3 '17

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#58 bill1710

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:21 PM

 agoose10, on 11 October 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

 bill1710, on 11 October 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

This test is dumb

I don’t post often but I have to say... bill1720 really makes a great argument here. I mean, he supports his thesis with facts and data. Very positive response that contributes to the community. Thanks bill!

not sure who bill1720 is. im bill1710. other people have explained why the test is dumb. i just wanted to let everyone know i agree.
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Cobra F7 3-4
Titleist 816 H2 19*
Srixon U45 23*
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Ping Tour Gorge 54*, 58*
Odyssey O-Works #7

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#59 agoose10

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:34 PM

 bill1710, on 11 October 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

 agoose10, on 11 October 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

 bill1710, on 11 October 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

This test is dumb

I don’t post often but I have to say... bill1720 really makes a great argument here. I mean, he supports his thesis with facts and data. Very positive response that contributes to the community. Thanks bill!

not sure who bill1720 is. im bill1710. other people have explained why the test is dumb. i just wanted to let everyone know i agree.

I don’t mean to attack you - but I just laughed at your post.

From an outsiders point of view I like this test because it’s basic info that compares heads from a consistent swing.

I have been using a 905r for 7 years without really having too much opportunity to test new drivers. Last week I went for a fitting and found out that I need to switch to a heavy x flex in order to “match” the performance of my 905r.

Needless to say - I am excited to see the titleist numbers as I just bought a 915D3 head to compare to my 905r.
Titleist 915D3 9.5* - Fuji Speeder 661 X-Flex
Titleist 904F 15* - Aldila VS Proto S-Flex
Titleist 915H 21* - Diamana Blueboard S-Flex
Taylormade Tour Preferred '09 4-PW
Titleist Vokey 52*
Titleist Vokey SM6 58*
Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport 3 '17

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#60 bill1710

bill1710

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:39 PM

 agoose10, on 11 October 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

 bill1710, on 11 October 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

 agoose10, on 11 October 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

 bill1710, on 11 October 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

This test is dumb

I don’t post often but I have to say... bill1720 really makes a great argument here. I mean, he supports his thesis with facts and data. Very positive response that contributes to the community. Thanks bill!

not sure who bill1720 is. im bill1710. other people have explained why the test is dumb. i just wanted to let everyone know i agree.

I don’t mean to attack you - but I just laughed at your post.

From an outsiders point of view I like this test because it’s basic info that compares heads from a consistent swing.

I have been using a 905r for 7 years without really having too much opportunity to test new drivers. Last week I went for a fitting and found out that I need to switch to a heavy x flex in order to “match” the performance of my 905r.

Needless to say - I am excited to see the titleist numbers as I just bought a 915D3 head to compare to my 905r.
no attacking going on here. The Callaway and Taylormade test were bad to me because he only used 5 models out of so many, understandably. Ping is a little better because it is more of a single model with slight variations being the LS and SF tec. I look forward to the Titleist one actually. Although, as you just exemplified, it is more about the combination of shaft and head. Rick shows there is very little differences in the head itself. On a different shaft you can get different results, better or worse.

Taylormade M1 '17 8.5*
Cobra F7 3-4
Titleist 816 H2 19*
Srixon U45 23*
Ping ie1 5-UW
Ping Tour Gorge 54*, 58*
Odyssey O-Works #7

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