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Hzrdus stock shafts vs handcrafted


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#1 Taz Kim

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:14 PM

Ok im not sure if this has been answered yet but ive been scouring the internet, youtube, and golf forums for a black and white answer.  what is the difference between lets say a hzrdus yellow (black shaft with yellow writing) to a hzrdus hc yellow (yellow shaft with black writing).  any input would be much appreciated.

Taylormade 2017 M2 10.5, Hzrdus Yellow 63 stiff
Callaway Big Bertha 816 3w, Rogue Black siff
Adams Tight Lies 3h,
4-6 Taylormade P790, DG 105 Stiff
7-p Miura cb57, Moddus 3 120 Stiff
Titleist Vokey SM5, 52,56
Scotty Cameron Futura X5 33"

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#2 Bushwood Country Club

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:51 PM

All I've been able to extract is that the handcrafted versions have tighter manufacturing tolerances. I play the yellow handcrafted in my driver and the red "stock" shaft in my fairway woods. I do not notice a huge difference - I love them both. I'm sure someone who is a better player / faster swing speed / more tech savvy than me could tell a difference.  

Price wise, you can find the stock version for about half the handcrafted price.
  • TM 2017 M1 w Hzrdus Yellow 6.0
  • Callaway XR 3 Wood, Hzrdus Red 6.0
  • Callaway XR 5 Wood, Hzrdus Red 6.0
  • Callaway XR Hybrid 4/23, Aldila Tour Blue Stiff
  •                 Titleist AP3   5,6 , Project X LZ 6.0    
  •                 Titleist AP2 7-9, Project X LZ 6.0          
  • Vokey SM6 46/8, 50/12F, 54/14F, 60/12K KBS C Taper R+
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#3 m5power

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:33 AM

i found the handcrafted to be a bit smoother feeling. probably placebo. i'm guessing it's marketing. the handrafted got it's name b/c they are "hand rolled"? i think that's what i've heard. but most likely it's just a tolerance thing.
Callaway Rogue 9* Even Flow Blue 6.5
TM R11 15.5 Fuji F3 8x
TM RBZ 18.5 3 hybrid Altus s
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#4 phatchrisrules

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:23 AM

Handcrafted referred to the series of shafts that were to tighter specifications and, at one time not sure if this is the case still, were made out of the California plant.  I had a Loading Zone Handcrafted in my driver for a few rounds, and a mass produced LZ in my old XR Pro fairway wood.  I hit the non-handcrafted one better in my opinion.  I sold the Handcrafted one within 2 range sessions, it never saw a golf course.  The specs were identical to my Ping Tour 65 I had in there already but it somehow felt a bit worse (very, very boardy even at the same torque and flex).  

I'm firmly in the "it makes no difference" category.
G30 LS Tec - Ping Tour Stiff
Taylormade M2 Tour 15* - KK Silver DC 70X
Taylormade R15 TP 17* - Graphite Design MJ 6X
Titleist 816H2 22* - Project X HD2 6.0
Akira Prototype K-101 5-PW - Shimada K's Tour Stiff
Miura 50* - Aldila RIP 115 Stiff
Debating between: Mizuno T7, Cobra PUR One Length, Vokey SM7, Ping Glide Stealth
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#5 Hunter90

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 09:02 AM

I just had a fitting and hit the HC yellow and the stock yellow. Other than the (in my opinion) eye sore of the HC yellow, I didn't see any significant difference


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#6 jokerusn

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:28 PM

I have both a handcrafted black and a retail black.  Both feel exactly the same to me.
(¬¬)

M1460 HZRDUS
F7/F6Baffler Tour Blue
R15 8.8TS
UDI PX HB6
J40/TP /DG/
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#7 TheLetterSee

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:06 PM

Same thing as DG X100 vs DG Tour Issue X100. Just tighter tolerances and they're hand rolled.
Channeling my inner Stenson and using 3 wood off the tee.
Taylormade M2 Tour 15* - Kuro Kage Silver TiNi 70 S
Cobra F7 3-4 Hybrid 19.5* - Aldila Rogue Black 85H X
Cobra King Pro CB 4-PW - Project X 6.5
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#8 Shilgy

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 08:18 PM

I have read both ways on this.
Hazrdus Black Handcrafted 5.5 vs 6.0.

I know all brands are different but 5.5 is regular? Stiff?
TM M1 8.5* Graphite Design BB6s
TM M1 3w 14*  Graphite Design BB7s
Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-AW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
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#9 disk

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 08:41 PM

Always thought 5.5 was like R, 6.0 S, and 6.5 X

Only difference between shafts is HC is literally rolled by hand, non HC is mass produced. The yellow colored HZRDUS yellow is the retail version (can be had in HC and non HC versions), the black with yellow lettering is the Tour version.

Edited by disk, 16 October 2017 - 08:41 PM.


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#10 storm319

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 08:50 PM

The HC shafts are made in the US while the regular shafts are made somewhere in Asia. The tolerances of the actual prepeg from the material supplier may be tighter and they may potentially measure/test the HC shafts more thoroughly following production.

BTW, even low end shafts made overseas are hand rolled around a dowel by a human.


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#11 Shilgy

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 09:24 PM

View Postdisk, on 16 October 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

Always thought 5.5 was like R, 6.0 S, and 6.5 X

Only difference between shafts is HC is literally rolled by hand, non HC is mass produced. The yellow colored HZRDUS yellow is the retail version (can be had in HC and non HC versions), the black with yellow lettering is the Tour version.
Is Px always soft? From their website faq's on Hzrdus:
Hzrdus shafts are stiffer to stated flex than other Project X shafts. If you are unsure choose the softer flex.
TM M1 8.5* Graphite Design BB6s
TM M1 3w 14*  Graphite Design BB7s
Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-AW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
Titleist Vokey 54*F  58*S
Toulon Garage Rochester/ Toulon Rochester

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

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#12 bill1710

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 09:33 PM

No real discernible difference between the two
Cobra F8+ 8*
Cobra F7 3-4 13*
Titleist 816 H2 19*
Adams hybrid 23*
Ping ie1 5-UW
Ping Tour Gorge 54*, 58*
Ping Sigma G Anser

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#13 Shilgy

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 09:34 PM

View Postbill1710, on 16 October 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

No real discernible difference between the two
Between 5.5 and 6.0?
TM M1 8.5* Graphite Design BB6s
TM M1 3w 14*  Graphite Design BB7s
Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-AW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
Titleist Vokey 54*F  58*S
Toulon Garage Rochester/ Toulon Rochester

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

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#14 bill1710

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 10:15 PM

View PostShilgy, on 16 October 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

View Postbill1710, on 16 October 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

No real discernible difference between the two
Between 5.5 and 6.0?
no between HC and non, sorry
Cobra F8+ 8*
Cobra F7 3-4 13*
Titleist 816 H2 19*
Adams hybrid 23*
Ping ie1 5-UW
Ping Tour Gorge 54*, 58*
Ping Sigma G Anser

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#15 phase3golf

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 10:35 PM

It's called "Nice Marketing"
Have tested 3 of each in these models with no comparable difference.....

Srixon 545 8.5 Tour Issue - Miyazaki Kosuma Black 7X
Cobra Fly Z 13 - Miyazaki Kosuma Indigo 7X
Ping Anser 18 - Miyazaki Kosuma Black 7X
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#16 Guia

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 10:38 PM

The biggest difference is marketing and pricing.

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#17 apprenti23

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 06:15 AM

Correct, profiles meant to be same; however- cheaper materials made in factories overseas that lack the same QC tolerances- non hC version is created so OEMs can put a $2 shaft in there and have people think itís the same as the $350 shaft. No arguing that one!

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#18 phatchrisrules

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 06:58 AM

View Postdisk, on 16 October 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:

Always thought 5.5 was like R, 6.0 S, and 6.5 X

Only difference between shafts is HC is literally rolled by hand, non HC is mass produced. The yellow colored HZRDUS yellow is the retail version (can be had in HC and non HC versions), the black with yellow lettering is the Tour version.

In the irons, the answer by my most PX fitters is that 5.0 regular+, 5.5 is stiff, 6.0 is Stiff+/X, 6.5 is X, 7.0 is X+.  However, this is based off of the old Rifle FCM profiles, as PX is 0.5 FCM firmer than the old system, so they do play a touch stiffer than the old Rifle shafts.  

In woods, they only have 5.0 (regular), 6.0 (stiff), 6.5 (X), and I think 7.0 in some models.  

View PostShilgy, on 16 October 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

Is Px always soft? From their website faq's on Hzrdus:
Hzrdus shafts are stiffer to stated flex than other Project X shafts. If you are unsure choose the softer flex.

I found the opposite in many cases.  The PX LZ 53g was very weak to flex (or so I thought).  I had a 53g 6.0 and at my ~98-100mph swing it felt like I had little control.  However, my dad, who swings about 10mph slower than me had a PX LZ 53g 5.0 and thought it felt perfect for him.  Conversely, I found the LZ 6.0 64g to be about bang on spec.  The T1100 and HZRDUS Black and Yellows seem to be about the same, if not firmer than flex, based on feel...but the T800 feels soft.  I think PX shafts are very weight sensitive, where the sub 50g ones feel very soft to flex and the 60+g feel bang on/if not more stiff.
G30 LS Tec - Ping Tour Stiff
Taylormade M2 Tour 15* - KK Silver DC 70X
Taylormade R15 TP 17* - Graphite Design MJ 6X
Titleist 816H2 22* - Project X HD2 6.0
Akira Prototype K-101 5-PW - Shimada K's Tour Stiff
Miura 50* - Aldila RIP 115 Stiff
Debating between: Mizuno T7, Cobra PUR One Length, Vokey SM7, Ping Glide Stealth
Bettinardi Inovai

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#19 Shilgy

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 09:30 AM

^^So based on all that a Hzrdus Black HC 75g 5.5 should play a bit stiff to flex. Similar to most stiff flex wood shafts?
TM M1 8.5* Graphite Design BB6s
TM M1 3w 14*  Graphite Design BB7s
Srixon U65 18° Atmos Red 7s
Adams A12 UST Silver S 21°
Srixon Z765 5-AW Nippon Pro Modus3 125S
Titleist Vokey 54*F  58*S
Toulon Garage Rochester/ Toulon Rochester

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened .  :)

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#20 Benguyuk

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:29 AM

I hope this helps and the Yellow and Red Hzrdus are a little more complicated than the black.

In regards to the Hadcrafted versions. In both the black shaft with red or yellow writing is a tour issue one that retails around $20 more than the yellow or red shafts. They were developed as the tour players liked the profiles but wanted a black finish. The handcrafted models are all made in the Usa to higher tolerances and they only make under a 100 a day as the process takes longer

The normal "stock' handcrafted which companies like TM use or Callaway with the T800 is made in the far east and are mass produced. These are made to look like the tour option but are alot cheaper and so tolerances etc are lower on production line. TM will buy shafts for cents per shaft so manufacturers lower standards.

I have a Handcrafted Black 6.6 in my driver (Epic SZ) and also a 105g in both hybrid and 2 iron and they play better and have a more responsive feel than the non handcrafted versions, but you are paying a lot of this "feeling"

WITB:
Driver - Callaway Epic Subzero 9 degree with Tensei CK Pro White 60TX
3 Wood - PXG 0341X 15 Diamana BF 70TX tipped 1"
Hybrid - PXG 0317 17 Hzrdus 85 6.5 shaft (vary between 2/hybrid)
2 Iron - PXG 0311X with Hzrdus Black Handcrafted 105g 6.5
4-PW - PXG 0311T Irons with Modus 130 Tour X shafts.
50 degree Titleist Vokey SM6 - Modus 125 Tour Blue
54 degree Titleist Vokey SM6 - Modus 125 Tour Blue
58 degree Titleist Vokey SM6 - Modus 125 Tour Blue
Putter - Evnroll ER5

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#21 getitdaily

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:36 AM

Higher tolerances in handmade shafts has always befuddled me. A machine can literally do the same task, exactly the same hundreds of times. A human is going to do something slightly different in any repeatable task. How can tolerances be higher for handmade?

Now, I could see that end product (the stuff that passes qc) has tighter tolerances IF every handmade shaft was qc tested and the ones that didn't pass were thrown out. This would make sense because every shaft would be tested and the waste would justify the high cost for the handmade.

But to suggest a human is going to produce higher quality products than a machine, in these days, doesn't jive.

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#22 storm319

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:55 PM

View Postgetitdaily, on 14 November 2017 - 08:36 AM, said:

Higher tolerances in handmade shafts has always befuddled me. A machine can literally do the same task, exactly the same hundreds of times. A human is going to do something slightly different in any repeatable task. How can tolerances be higher for handmade?

Now, I could see that end product (the stuff that passes qc) has tighter tolerances IF every handmade shaft was qc tested and the ones that didn't pass were thrown out. This would make sense because every shaft would be tested and the waste would justify the high cost for the handmade.

But to suggest a human is going to produce higher quality products than a machine, in these days, doesn't jive.

Agreed, although I believe the majority (if not all) composite shafts are initially hand rolled by a human. The big difference between high dollar and cheap shafts are A) production location/labor cost B) post-production QC tolerances C) material cost. Most of these differences are generally indistinguishable for the majority of golfers.

Edited by storm319, 14 November 2017 - 07:58 PM.


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#23 phatchrisrules

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:26 AM

View PostShilgy, on 17 October 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

^^So based on all that a Hzrdus Black HC 75g 5.5 should play a bit stiff to flex. Similar to most stiff flex wood shafts?

Sorry I didn't see this earlier.  Yes, the HZRDUS Black driver 5.5 is their regular flex, however, it will play more similarly to many other Stiffs in terms of feel and kick, at least in my testing it did.
G30 LS Tec - Ping Tour Stiff
Taylormade M2 Tour 15* - KK Silver DC 70X
Taylormade R15 TP 17* - Graphite Design MJ 6X
Titleist 816H2 22* - Project X HD2 6.0
Akira Prototype K-101 5-PW - Shimada K's Tour Stiff
Miura 50* - Aldila RIP 115 Stiff
Debating between: Mizuno T7, Cobra PUR One Length, Vokey SM7, Ping Glide Stealth
Bettinardi Inovai

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#24 storm319

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 10:48 PM

View Poststorm319, on 14 November 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

Agreed, although I believe the majority (if not all) composite shafts are initially hand rolled by a human. The big difference between high dollar and cheap shafts are A) production location/labor cost B) post-production QC tolerances C) material cost. Most of these differences are generally indistinguishable for the majority of golfers.

Here are videos of the "handmade" production as well as two other major shaft OEMs doing exactly the same thing. "Handcrafted" looks to mean "same basic production as our past shafts and our competitors".

TT/Project X "handmade"
https://www.youtube....h?v=g_XGQqqWJuE

Graphite Design
https://www.youtube....h?v=6F3EtJ6cMYk

Fujikura
https://www.youtube....h?v=p8c0Dd6T1jw

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#25 bogeypro

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:03 PM

View Postjokerusn, on 04 October 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

I have both a handcrafted black and a retail black.  Both feel exactly the same to me.

I have the retail black for my M1.  My buddy has a handcrafted (I hit it today actually).  They feel exactly the same to me.

Callaway Rogue SZ 9*
Callaway Rogue SZ 15*
Callaway Epic hybrid 19*
Mizuno MP18 combo 4-pw
Titleist Vokey SM6 52/ 10 F, 58/ 8 M
Scotty Cameron Golo 5 (2014)
some balls

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#26 andyk856

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 08:23 AM

I had the stock yellow (black shaft yellow writing) in my M1 and i loved it.
Taylormade M1 / VA Composites Raijin 64 X shaft
Titleist 913F  / Fujikura Pro XLR8 71 TS shaft
Titleist 718 CB / Project X LZ 6.5
Titleist 712U 2 Iron / x100
Titleist SM6 56 wedge
Titleist SM6 52 wedge
Scotty Cameron Newport 2.5

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