Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

- - - - -

Spieth. Why so unsuccessful in these type of Tourneys?


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 tsecor

tsecor

    Major Winner

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,766 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 129704
  • Joined: 05/28/2011
GolfWRX Likes : 719

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:00 AM

Mr Spieth has not had any success in the Ryder Cup or the Presidents Cup. Why do you think arguably the best golfer on tour struggles in these type events? I believe he is 0-5?


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#2 Vindog

Vindog

    Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer!

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,252 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 131959
  • Joined: 06/29/2011
  • Location:Maine, the final frontier
GolfWRX Likes : 6107

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:09 AM

He's never really lit it up in the WGC Match play either, only making it to the quarter final once, and in his first year, IIRC.

  So maybe it's a format thing, I dunno.
run of the mill driver with stock shaft
a couple of outdated hybrids
shovel-ier shovels
wedges from same shovel company
some putter with a dead insert and
a hideous grip

2

#3 MidwestGolfBum

MidwestGolfBum

    Tour Winner

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 929 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 304799
  • Joined: 03/31/2014
  • Location:No Coast, USA
GolfWRX Likes : 478

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:11 AM

He has had some bad breaks over the years with DeLaet holing the shot out of the bunker on 18 where both played reasonably well, McDowell played out of his mind at Gleneagles, and Stenson was playing better golf than anybody at the end of last year for the Ryder Cup. Sure, Spieth is an amazing golfer, but when you look at a lot of big names, people rise up to the "I'm the underdog" feeling and bring some of their best stuff to try to beat them.

Yesterday I don't think many of the American's really had a lot of fire given the lead, which is understandable and just kind of went out there to play.

Those are just my observations, take them for what they are worth (nothing).
Titleist 917 D3 9.5* Aldila Rogue Silver 125 TX 70
Titleist 917F3 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X black
Titleist 19.5* 816 H2 HZRDUS Hybrid 85G X
Titleist 714 MB 4-9 KBS Tour-V X or Cally RazrX MB 4-9 KBS Tour-V S Hard-Stepped
Vokey SM5, 52.08, 56.10, 60.08 all with hard stepped KBS Tour-V S
Byron DH89 or Piretti Proto

The bag is always a work in progress.

3

#4 tbowles411

tbowles411

    In Gee Chun

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 23,326 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 5624
  • Joined: 08/30/2005
  • Location:Northern Virginia (One day I hope to be a Texan!)
  • Handicap:Golf
GolfWRX Likes : 5321

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:13 AM

View PostVindog, on 02 October 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

He's never really lit it up in the WGC Match play either, only making it to the quarter final once, and in his first year, IIRC.

  So maybe it's a format thing, I dunno.
Probably a format thing.  That said, his rationale was reasonable.  He's played every match in the PC and RC.  When he gets to singles. he's whooped and has nothing left in the tank.
PING G Driver
PING G Fairway 3 Wood
PING G Hybrids (3, 4)
PING G Irons (5-UW)
PING Glide 2.0 (54SS, 58WS)
PING Sigma G Piper 3
Ball: Titelist DT Trusoft

4

#5 Ferguson

Ferguson

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,787 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 371587
  • Joined: 04/16/2015
  • Location:VA
  • Handicap:6.9
GolfWRX Likes : 1885

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:25 AM

Hole to hole competitions might not fit neatly into his box.  Like anything else - he needs one good match to figure it out.

I expect this to improve as he gets older.

Edited by Ferguson, 02 October 2017 - 08:41 AM.


5

#6 lewis17web

lewis17web

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 12824
  • Joined: 02/28/2006
  • Location:Midwest
  • Ebay ID:trainer02t
GolfWRX Likes : 11

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:27 AM

I'm assuming mean no success at singles? Because he and Reed have been dominant as partners for both a RC and PC now. His singles record is interesting. I would agree by singles he has played a lot of golf all season and then a ton of golf the 3 preceding days.

6

#7 sandy

sandy

    Major Winner

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 4,700 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 2351
  • Joined: 07/11/2005
GolfWRX Likes : 201

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:31 AM

Sort of the opposite of Tiger who was more successful at singles than team format. I think Tiger is 10-3 in singles in both Ryder and Presidents. The only team format he had any success in was Presidents Cup Foursomes all the rest were losing records.

Edited by sandy, 02 October 2017 - 08:39 AM.


7

#8 raynorfan1

raynorfan1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,775 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119065
  • Joined: 12/17/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 678

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:41 AM

Spieth's game is built for stroke play; it's just how he approaches the game. He is very methodical, plays the percentages every time, and knows that if he plays his game, over the course of 18 holes, he's going to get his opportunities and convert them a certain percentage of the time. He is actually slightly more talented than most guys on tour, so over the course of ~1,500 holes of competitive golf each year if he plays to his "average" he does pretty well.

This approach - which is brutally efficient on the PGA Tour - doesn't necessarily work in match play, because you could be dead well before the you get to the 18th hole, and there is no 72nd hole.

8

#9 cardoustie

cardoustie

    Canada Cup 1973

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,022 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 65255
  • Joined: 09/09/2008
  • Location:Tasmania to Canada
  • Handicap:3.6
GolfWRX Likes : 4804

Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:24 AM

Strange really

We have a lot of players at our club that are awful in single events but amazing when they have a partner to fall back on

He's proven himself so solid in majors on his own ball.  Maybe singles matches don't get him revved up, and it was hard yesterday for the US guys to have any interest
TaylorMade '16 M2 11* GD AD DI 6x
Callaway 3w GB Bertha 15* AD MT 6s
Callaway Vseries Hvnwd 20.5* Kuro Kage 70s
Callaway Apex 4h & 5h Kuro Kage 80s
PIng s55 6 - PW Nippon Tour 1150GH x
Vokey SM2 50* & 54*M TVD dg s400
Vokey SM5 58*M & 62*T dg s400
Scotty Cameron X7m

9

#10 Night train

Night train

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,315 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 7139
  • Joined: 10/26/2005
GolfWRX Likes : 1246

Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:00 AM

Four straight days of match play is pretty taxing. I think the man is emotionally drained by the time singles matches arrive. It's not so much physical as mental.........every hole is a tournament in matchplay, pretty soon your energy level is depleted to the point where after several days........you're not as sharp.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#11 LongIronSavant831

LongIronSavant831

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 480640
  • Joined: 08/30/2017
  • Handicap:10
GolfWRX Likes : 2

Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:03 AM

I think it's just an issue with stroke vs match play.

Just in general some players games work better in a stroke play format opposed to match play.

Personally I don't care for match play. Naturally it allows for some fantastic shots and play but doesn't necessarily punish bad shots or play like stroke play does

11

#12 BrianMcG

BrianMcG

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,011 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 71565
  • Joined: 12/30/2008
  • Location:Cleveland, TN
GolfWRX Likes : 1010

Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:25 AM

Not many people can recover from a 40 yard blocked drive. In alternate shot, your partner starts getting sick of it. Lol.

Maybe Spieth and Mickleson would make a good pairing.

12

#13 PowderedToastMan

PowderedToastMan

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,712 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 141617
  • Joined: 10/07/2011
  • Location:Calgary, Canada
GolfWRX Likes : 2544

Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:43 AM

He's built the perfect, conservative game for 72 hole stroke play events. I can't imagine it's an easy transition for him to transfer to aggressive, risk-taking golf over 18-hole head-to-head competitions.
Former professional golfer. Current amateur human being. Reformed club ho.

In the bag:

PING G30 8.4 w/ Tour 65 Stiff 44.25"
PING G30 13.5 w/ TFC 419F X
PING G30 17.5 w/ Tour 80 X
PING G25 20 w/ TFC 189 X
PING S55 4-PW w/ KBS Tour X
PING Tour Gorge 52; Glide 58 TS w/ CFS X
Yes! Sandy 12 38"

13

#14 WillMK5

WillMK5

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 271 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 310237
  • Joined: 04/22/2014
  • Location:Long Island
GolfWRX Likes : 47

Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:42 AM

He played great during the four ball and team events. It's just the individual matches that he struggles in.

14

#15 raynorfan1

raynorfan1

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,775 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119065
  • Joined: 12/17/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 678

Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:07 PM

View PostWillMK5, on 02 October 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

He played great during the four ball and team events. It's just the individual matches that he struggles in.

His game makes him an unbelievably good partner in team play. In a better-ball scenario, his partner can play very aggressively, knowing that Jordan is going to keep them in the hole. In foursomes, he's going to either give his partner a great spot to play from or clean up whatever his partner left him.


15

#16 Mookie91

Mookie91

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,311 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 47817
  • Joined: 02/02/2008
  • Location:Oswego, NY
  • Handicap:8.1
  • Ebay ID:golfmookie
GolfWRX Likes : 126

Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:56 PM

View Postsandy, on 02 October 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Sort of the opposite of Tiger who was more successful at singles than team format. I think Tiger is 10-3 in singles in both Ryder and Presidents. The only team format he had any success in was Presidents Cup Foursomes all the rest were losing records.

In singles matches it's one on one and there is no one to bail you out.  Spieth is a fantastic golfer but has track record in head to head match play scenarios isn't very good.
Ping G LS Tec 10.5 Tour 80 X
Titleist 915F 16.5 Fujikura Pro 93 TS X
TaylorMade 2009 Rescue TP 19 Grafalloy Epic X
Bridgetsone J15 DPF 4 Iron DG Pro S300
Wilson FG Tour 100 5-PW X100
Callaway Mack Daddy 2 Tour 52 KBS, Wilson FG Tour PMP 56, Mack Daddy 60
Odyssey Tank Cruiser 2-Ball Fang 38"

16

#17 Guia

Guia

    Ancient Dude

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,903 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 97501
  • Joined: 10/28/2009
  • Location:Southwest
  • Handicap:12
GolfWRX Likes : 1848

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:22 PM

Maybe he is not up for head-to-head competition.

17

#18 dukeman

dukeman

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 555 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 113909
  • Joined: 08/30/2010
GolfWRX Likes : 344

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:48 PM

He's Ian Poulter's alter ego

18

#19 Canoe Paddler

Canoe Paddler

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 481246
  • Joined: 09/06/2017
GolfWRX Likes : 31

Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:15 PM

Johnny Miller made a comment about Adam Scott yesterday, saying that typically the "nice guys" on tour don't fare as well in match play as the Azinger type players. That may apply to Speith as well. At least in singles.

Edited by Canoe Paddler, 02 October 2017 - 09:15 PM.


19

#20 Cwebb

Cwebb

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,188 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 21353
  • Joined: 11/04/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 981

Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:41 PM

Not all good stroke play guys are as good at match play.  Also, it's a relatively small sample size compared to the rest of his career in stroke play


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

20

#21 Conrad1953

Conrad1953

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,483 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 66402
  • Joined: 09/24/2008
  • Location:Alabama
  • Handicap:9
  • Ebay ID:cobicreations
GolfWRX Likes : 39421

Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:45 PM

Just curious, does anyone know the scores he shot in those 5 losing single matches?

We all know how match play is..........you can shoot 66 and lose and shoot 72 and
win, depending on what your opponent shoots.
Ping G25 10.5 degree w/PL Blue 65S
Ping G15 4 wood w/PL Blue 65S
Ping G10 18 and 21 Hybrids w PL Blue HY S
    Ping S58 Irons 4-P with Ping AWT R
    Ping Gorge Wedges 52 and 58 w/CFS Wedge  
   Odyssey White Hot Tour #1

  



Member #3---------Outlaw Golf Association
   Non Physics Geezer Division

21

#22 Outlier

Outlier

    OUTLIER

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 968 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 105230
  • Joined: 03/23/2010
  • Location:Ice Cold in Charlotte, NC
  • Handicap:1906
GolfWRX Likes : 277

Posted 07 October 2017 - 10:14 PM

 Mookie91, on 02 October 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

 sandy, on 02 October 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Sort of the opposite of Tiger who was more successful at singles than team format. I think Tiger is 10-3 in singles in both Ryder and Presidents. The only team format he had any success in was Presidents Cup Foursomes all the rest were losing records.

In singles matches it's one on one and there is no one to bail you out.  Spieth is a fantastic golfer but has track record in head to head match play scenarios isn't very good.

Mook- so you just basically repeated the original post?

(OK- sorry just bustin your chops)

22

#23 OldTomMorris

OldTomMorris

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 870 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 129568
  • Joined: 05/26/2011
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
GolfWRX Likes : 114

Posted 08 October 2017 - 02:14 AM

If he's 0-10 in few years then I'd reassess my opinion but for now I think its just that its 18-holes matchplay which is a leveller. His opponent usually isn't expected to win either, not saying its a free hit but less pressure for them.

More often than not Jordan beats most over 72-holes, 18-holes in a way minimises his advantage.

23

#24 Darth Putter

Darth Putter

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 913 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 466932
  • Joined: 05/09/2017
  • Location:Central Illinois
  • Handicap:10.8
GolfWRX Likes : 962

Posted 08 October 2017 - 04:49 PM

 OldTomMorris, on 08 October 2017 - 02:14 AM, said:

If he's 0-10 in few years then I'd reassess my opinion but for now I think its just that its 18-holes matchplay which is a leveller. His opponent usually isn't expected to win either, not saying its a free hit but less pressure for them.

More often than not Jordan beats most over 72-holes, 18-holes in a way minimises his advantage.

If he's 0-10 in singles in five years, but the team is 9-1 because he and his partner rolled through their team matches with a 15-0-5 record, then he's a great Ryder Cup/ President's Cup player.
swing is irrelevant, score is everything

just say NO.... to practice swings

24

#25 Roadking2003

Roadking2003

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,513 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 406342
  • Joined: 12/21/2015
  • Location:Austin
  • Handicap:8.7
GolfWRX Likes : 1223

Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:08 PM

 tsecor, on 02 October 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

Mr Spieth has not had any success in the Ryder Cup or the Presidents Cup. Why do you think arguably the best golfer on tour struggles in these type events? I believe he is 0-5?

Not sure how you define "success", but Spieth has never had a losing record in any of these five RC and PC events.

RC: 4-3-2
PC: 8-5-1


25

#26 Roadking2003

Roadking2003

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,513 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 406342
  • Joined: 12/21/2015
  • Location:Austin
  • Handicap:8.7
GolfWRX Likes : 1223

Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:11 PM

 LongIronSavant831, on 02 October 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

I think it's just an issue with stroke vs match play.

Just in general some players games work better in a stroke play format opposed to match play.


And yet his match play record in RC and PC is 12-8-3.............  pretty good for a guy whose game works better in stroke play.

26

#27 Terry Gold

Terry Gold

    Advanced

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 377 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 293923
  • Joined: 01/27/2014
  • Location:God's Golf Ball
GolfWRX Likes : 281

Posted 13 October 2017 - 11:00 PM

 raynorfan1, on 02 October 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

Spieth's game is built for stroke play; it's just how he approaches the game. He is very methodical, plays the percentages every time, and knows that if he plays his game, over the course of 18 holes, he's going to get his opportunities and convert them a certain percentage of the time. He is actually slightly more talented than most guys on tour, so over the course of ~1,500 holes of competitive golf each year if he plays to his "average" he does pretty well.

This approach - which is brutally efficient on the PGA Tour - doesn't necessarily work in match play, because you could be dead well before the you get to the 18th hole, and there is no 72nd hole.

I'm no JS fanboy but let's just look at the facts before jumping to conclusions:

Spieth, who is "slightly more talented" than his peers (?!?), managed to lead the Tour in Birdie Average and Scoring for 2017, and carries a respectable 9-8-1 career singles record since turning pro, AND is the only guy other than Tiger to win the  US Junior Amateur Twice--- a tournament which includes FOUR DAYS of Match Play, has a game/style/mentality/talent that doesn't translate?  He's been in 7 tour event playoffs and won 4 of them.

I mean, the guy you are describing sounds more like a Zach Johnson and even ZJ has an overall winning singles record.

I'm not a big fan, but pros might play two match play events a year, tops, anyway.  He'll be okay.

Edited by Terry Gold, 13 October 2017 - 11:11 PM.


27

#28 iBanesto

iBanesto

    Niclas Fasth

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,282 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 18328
  • Joined: 08/24/2006
GolfWRX Likes : 729

Posted 14 October 2017 - 04:05 AM

He hit more shots than his opponent/s.

28

#29 MountainGoat

MountainGoat

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 558 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 450210
  • Joined: 12/30/2016
GolfWRX Likes : 413

Posted 14 October 2017 - 06:30 AM

His particular style plays out best over 72 holes, not 18.

29



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors