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Mind Blown -- The BEST DRILL EVER


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#31 oikos1

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 09:07 AM

View PostStrike Force, on 29 September 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

View PostGMR, on 29 September 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

Yesterday my entire golf game changed.  I don't know why or how, but for some reason I stumbled again on a drill I had always wanted to try--the throwing clubs drill. I have never had anywhere to actually try this drill, but I recently moved into a house that backs up onto a golf course so now I actually have room to try it in the evening when the course is empty.

So last night I take 4 old irons (3-6) and go out onto the golf course.  Starting with left hand only, from a standard setup I try to throw them as far as I can down the center of the fairway.  I then go get them and do it again, this time with right hand only.  And that is when it all clicks.

If you have never done this drill, just go do it.  If you want to throw a 3i 50+ yards and straight, there's really only one way to do it: you coil up, you keep turning and let the club (naturally) lag behind you, and you release as hard as you can down the line to the target. The amazing thing about it though is for anyone who has ever played other sports this should come EXTREMELY NATURALLY.  Try to do silly things that you do in your golf swing to make contact (casting, reverse pivoting, holding lag etc.) and who knows where the club will go.

I then hit 3 shots with my 6i and another 3 with my 3i.  Literally the feeling is that i'm just throwing the club HARD like I had just done, but let the ball get in the way.  Hit a straight shot, draw, and fade with each club, but just aiming the throw a few degrees right for the draw and a few degrees left for the fade.  And oh my did it work well--tiny dispersion and great distance on all 6 shots.

So then I went and played 9 holes. No swing thoughts except to try to get in the best throwing position on the backswing and then to throw hard down the line on the downswing.  No focus on the ball, all on THROWING that club down the line.  During those 9 holes I hit the ball better than I ever have in any round ever, bar none.  8 GIRS (including a 15ft putt for eagle on one par 5 and back fringe on the other) and shot -2.  For reference I play off around a UK 10 and normally shoot somewhere in the low-mid 80s (though can be pretty volatile to be fair). My miss was LONG--a much higher % of shots were going the "I really got ahold of that one" distance. Couple missed fairways but only 5-10 yards off the fairway and very playable, whereas my normal driver miss has me praying that the ball stays in bounds.

I realise I'm very much still in the honeymoon period here with this, but as it's a complete change in intent and pretty much a removal of all swing thoughts (instead of adding more) I have decent confidence that I've jumped to a new plateau here.  And the best part, is this feeling is so LIBERATING.  No worrying about the swing. No worrying about which arm or shoulder moves where or which body part starts the downswing or which wrist changes position at which time.  Just literally THROW that club. Hard. Down the line.  And just like that GOLF IS FUN!!!

Tell me no!  You are kidding, right?

You mean to tell me that you are actually swinging 'to the target' rather than at the ball?  You mean you actually just 'let the ball get in the way' and the ball is totally incidental to your swing?  You mean you actually have 'no focus on the ball' because your inner thought is on swinging to your target?  You mean you actually changed your golf swing by simply 'changing your intent', and your body automatically accommodated and coordinated those changes?  You mean you didn't try to put certain body parts into various positions during the swing like certain people here tell you to do?  Wow!  PERFECT!!!

Congratulations!  You get it...

PS - Don't pay any attention to the couple of old vultures that hang out here that prey on messages like yours.  They are the self-appointed caretakers for some of the [so-called] professional golf instructors here that teach the golf swing only by body part positions.

So as to eliminate any possibility of a straw man argument, who are these "teach the golf swing only by body part positions" instructors that you speak of?


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#32 nlk10010

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 10:21 AM

OP:  I'm glad you feel you've experienced an "AHA" moment and, to paraphrase a famous line from an early "Star Trek", "May your method continue to be as effective". It sounds to me like you've discovered "slinging" the club at the ball.

I think you would agree with me, however that. as a lower handicap golfer, there are things you are doing already (e.g. squaring up the clubface) that ALLOWS this thought to be as effective as it is. For if someone who has trouble squaring the head tried your method then chances are the swing would still result in mishits. A good golf swing is comprised of many thoughts; the problem is that unless they are all (or mostly all) implemented together they don't work.

Frankly, and this has been the subject of many threads, the idea of "using the momentum of the club" is ubiquitous, and the "Gravity Golf" approach seems to be a prime example of what you're describing.

Edited by nlk10010, 30 September 2017 - 10:22 AM.


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#33 Strike Force

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 09:51 PM

View Postoikos1, on 30 September 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

View PostStrike Force, on 29 September 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

View PostGMR, on 29 September 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

Yesterday my entire golf game changed.  I don't know why or how, but for some reason I stumbled again on a drill I had always wanted to try--the throwing clubs drill. I have never had anywhere to actually try this drill, but I recently moved into a house that backs up onto a golf course so now I actually have room to try it in the evening when the course is empty.

So last night I take 4 old irons (3-6) and go out onto the golf course.  Starting with left hand only, from a standard setup I try to throw them as far as I can down the center of the fairway.  I then go get them and do it again, this time with right hand only.  And that is when it all clicks.

If you have never done this drill, just go do it.  If you want to throw a 3i 50+ yards and straight, there's really only one way to do it: you coil up, you keep turning and let the club (naturally) lag behind you, and you release as hard as you can down the line to the target. The amazing thing about it though is for anyone who has ever played other sports this should come EXTREMELY NATURALLY.  Try to do silly things that you do in your golf swing to make contact (casting, reverse pivoting, holding lag etc.) and who knows where the club will go.

I then hit 3 shots with my 6i and another 3 with my 3i.  Literally the feeling is that i'm just throwing the club HARD like I had just done, but let the ball get in the way.  Hit a straight shot, draw, and fade with each club, but just aiming the throw a few degrees right for the draw and a few degrees left for the fade.  And oh my did it work well--tiny dispersion and great distance on all 6 shots.

So then I went and played 9 holes. No swing thoughts except to try to get in the best throwing position on the backswing and then to throw hard down the line on the downswing.  No focus on the ball, all on THROWING that club down the line.  During those 9 holes I hit the ball better than I ever have in any round ever, bar none.  8 GIRS (including a 15ft putt for eagle on one par 5 and back fringe on the other) and shot -2.  For reference I play off around a UK 10 and normally shoot somewhere in the low-mid 80s (though can be pretty volatile to be fair). My miss was LONG--a much higher % of shots were going the "I really got ahold of that one" distance. Couple missed fairways but only 5-10 yards off the fairway and very playable, whereas my normal driver miss has me praying that the ball stays in bounds.

I realise I'm very much still in the honeymoon period here with this, but as it's a complete change in intent and pretty much a removal of all swing thoughts (instead of adding more) I have decent confidence that I've jumped to a new plateau here.  And the best part, is this feeling is so LIBERATING.  No worrying about the swing. No worrying about which arm or shoulder moves where or which body part starts the downswing or which wrist changes position at which time.  Just literally THROW that club. Hard. Down the line.  And just like that GOLF IS FUN!!!

Tell me no!  You are kidding, right?

You mean to tell me that you are actually swinging 'to the target' rather than at the ball?  You mean you actually just 'let the ball get in the way' and the ball is totally incidental to your swing?  You mean you actually have 'no focus on the ball' because your inner thought is on swinging to your target?  You mean you actually changed your golf swing by simply 'changing your intent', and your body automatically accommodated and coordinated those changes?  You mean you didn't try to put certain body parts into various positions during the swing like certain people here tell you to do?  Wow!  PERFECT!!!

Congratulations!  You get it...

PS - Don't pay any attention to the couple of old vultures that hang out here that prey on messages like yours.  They are the self-appointed caretakers for some of the [so-called] professional golf instructors here that teach the golf swing only by body part positions.

So as to eliminate any possibility of a straw man argument, who are these "teach the golf swing only by body part positions" instructors that you speak of?

Assuming that you are reasonably observant about such things, who do you suppose they might be?
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#34 Ghost of Snead

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 10:15 PM

View PostStrike Force, on 30 September 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

Assuming that you are reasonably observant about such things, who do you suppose they might be?

Unlike some '+' cap anonymous posters, all of the instructors on this site ( body parts or not ) are out in the open and we know their playing abilities. Condescending know-it-all keyboard warriors are anonymous for a reason.

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#35 GMR

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 03:10 AM

View Postnlk10010, on 30 September 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

OP:  I'm glad you feel you've experienced an "AHA" moment and, to paraphrase a famous line from an early "Star Trek", "May your method continue to be as effective". It sounds to me like you've discovered "slinging" the club at the ball.

I think you would agree with me, however that. as a lower handicap golfer, there are things you are doing already (e.g. squaring up the clubface) that ALLOWS this thought to be as effective as it is. For if someone who has trouble squaring the head tried your method then chances are the swing would still result in mishits. A good golf swing is comprised of many thoughts; the problem is that unless they are all (or mostly all) implemented together they don't work.

Frankly, and this has been the subject of many threads, the idea of "using the momentum of the club" is ubiquitous, and the "Gravity Golf" approach seems to be a prime example of what you're describing.

Agree that my starting level definitely helped it be effective more quickly, as I have the requisite skills to transition the feeling to hitting a ball. However, from a purely mechanical standpoint I actually think this intent might help the high handicap OOT slicer even more, as you literally cannot throw a club straight and even remotely far with that motion.

Edited by GMR, 01 October 2017 - 03:11 AM.


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#36 hammer45

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 03:49 AM

View PostGMR, on 29 September 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

Yesterday my entire golf game changed.  I don't know why or how, but for some reason I stumbled again on a drill I had always wanted to try--the throwing clubs drill. I have never had anywhere to actually try this drill, but I recently moved into a house that backs up onto a golf course so now I actually have room to try it in the evening when the course is empty.

So last night I take 4 old irons (3-6) and go out onto the golf course.  Starting with left hand only, from a standard setup I try to throw them as far as I can down the center of the fairway.  I then go get them and do it again, this time with right hand only.  And that is when it all clicks.

If you have never done this drill, just go do it.  If you want to throw a 3i 50+ yards and straight, there's really only one way to do it: you coil up, you keep turning and let the club (naturally) lag behind you, and you release as hard as you can down the line to the target. The amazing thing about it though is for anyone who has ever played other sports this should come EXTREMELY NATURALLY.  Try to do silly things that you do in your golf swing to make contact (casting, reverse pivoting, holding lag etc.) and who knows where the club will go.

I then hit 3 shots with my 6i and another 3 with my 3i.  Literally the feeling is that i'm just throwing the club HARD like I had just done, but let the ball get in the way.  Hit a straight shot, draw, and fade with each club, but just aiming the throw a few degrees right for the draw and a few degrees left for the fade.  And oh my did it work well--tiny dispersion and great distance on all 6 shots.

So then I went and played 9 holes. No swing thoughts except to try to get in the best throwing position on the backswing and then to throw hard down the line on the downswing.  No focus on the ball, all on THROWING that club down the line.  During those 9 holes I hit the ball better than I ever have in any round ever, bar none.  8 GIRS (including a 15ft putt for eagle on one par 5 and back fringe on the other) and shot -2.  For reference I play off around a UK 10 and normally shoot somewhere in the low-mid 80s (though can be pretty volatile to be fair). My miss was LONG--a much higher % of shots were going the "I really got ahold of that one" distance. Couple missed fairways but only 5-10 yards off the fairway and very playable, whereas my normal driver miss has me praying that the ball stays in bounds.

I realise I'm very much still in the honeymoon period here with this, but as it's a complete change in intent and pretty much a removal of all swing thoughts (instead of adding more) I have decent confidence that I've jumped to a new plateau here.  And the best part, is this feeling is so LIBERATING.  No worrying about the swing. No worrying about which arm or shoulder moves where or which body part starts the downswing or which wrist changes position at which time.  Just literally THROW that club. Hard. Down the line.  And just like that GOLF IS FUN!!!
   you should do a video showing what it looks throwing the club with each hand ......

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#37 aliikane

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 04:21 AM

Sounds like the right hand throw the ball drill.

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#38 oikos1

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 10:15 PM

View Posthammer45, on 01 October 2017 - 03:49 AM, said:

View PostGMR, on 29 September 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

Yesterday my entire golf game changed.  I don't know why or how, but for some reason I stumbled again on a drill I had always wanted to try--the throwing clubs drill. I have never had anywhere to actually try this drill, but I recently moved into a house that backs up onto a golf course so now I actually have room to try it in the evening when the course is empty.

So last night I take 4 old irons (3-6) and go out onto the golf course.  Starting with left hand only, from a standard setup I try to throw them as far as I can down the center of the fairway.  I then go get them and do it again, this time with right hand only.  And that is when it all clicks.

If you have never done this drill, just go do it.  If you want to throw a 3i 50+ yards and straight, there's really only one way to do it: you coil up, you keep turning and let the club (naturally) lag behind you, and you release as hard as you can down the line to the target. The amazing thing about it though is for anyone who has ever played other sports this should come EXTREMELY NATURALLY.  Try to do silly things that you do in your golf swing to make contact (casting, reverse pivoting, holding lag etc.) and who knows where the club will go.

I then hit 3 shots with my 6i and another 3 with my 3i.  Literally the feeling is that i'm just throwing the club HARD like I had just done, but let the ball get in the way.  Hit a straight shot, draw, and fade with each club, but just aiming the throw a few degrees right for the draw and a few degrees left for the fade.  And oh my did it work well--tiny dispersion and great distance on all 6 shots.

So then I went and played 9 holes. No swing thoughts except to try to get in the best throwing position on the backswing and then to throw hard down the line on the downswing.  No focus on the ball, all on THROWING that club down the line.  During those 9 holes I hit the ball better than I ever have in any round ever, bar none.  8 GIRS (including a 15ft putt for eagle on one par 5 and back fringe on the other) and shot -2.  For reference I play off around a UK 10 and normally shoot somewhere in the low-mid 80s (though can be pretty volatile to be fair). My miss was LONG--a much higher % of shots were going the "I really got ahold of that one" distance. Couple missed fairways but only 5-10 yards off the fairway and very playable, whereas my normal driver miss has me praying that the ball stays in bounds.

I realise I'm very much still in the honeymoon period here with this, but as it's a complete change in intent and pretty much a removal of all swing thoughts (instead of adding more) I have decent confidence that I've jumped to a new plateau here.  And the best part, is this feeling is so LIBERATING.  No worrying about the swing. No worrying about which arm or shoulder moves where or which body part starts the downswing or which wrist changes position at which time.  Just literally THROW that club. Hard. Down the line.  And just like that GOLF IS FUN!!!
   you should do a video showing what it looks throwing the club with each hand ......
Absolutely. Maybe something in this genre...



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#39 thug the bunny

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 10:56 PM

Wow. I'm sold. Sounds like a great drill. Sitting here on my couch I can almost feel what you are saying. As a 9 cap, I have decent fundamentals and a good shoulder turn, and I can't wait to get some old clubs and find an open fairway and try this!
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#40 i*windows

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:39 AM

@GMR, Sean Clement on YouTube has loads of videos about tossing the club, throwing it down the line, too many to list, but I think this is the best




Edited by i*windows, 02 October 2017 - 03:43 AM.

Just hit the damn ball.
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#41 GMR

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:00 AM

View Posti*windows, on 02 October 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

@GMR, Sean Clement on YouTube has loads of videos about tossing the club, throwing it down the line, too many to list, but I think this is the best



Thanks for posting and yes that's about it.  I personally thought it was easier to start with a one-hand throwing action as that's a more natural motion for me, but that detail isn't super important.  The important part is that you change your intent from trying to impart the power/speed of the club into the ball (like hitting a nail with a hammer) to instead trying to fling the club through the ball in a throwing motion, and just allowing the ball to get in the way.

Another thing I've discovered is it's somewhat helpful to think of the golf ball as super light and nearly nonexistant--like a ping-pong ball--so that your body doesn't naturally "brace for impact" and tighten up your arms, wrists, and grip pressure.

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#42 GMR

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:06 AM

One other small point I'd add is that this same intent has been EXTREMELY helpful in the short game.  When chipping I am picturing throwing the wedge to my landing spot. Strike consistency and distance control have improved, and the ball is coming out higher and softer with more check.  Really makes things a LOT easier around the greens.

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#43 i*windows

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:43 AM

View PostGMR, on 02 October 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

View Posti*windows, on 02 October 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

@GMR, Sean Clement on YouTube has loads of videos about tossing the club, throwing it down the line, too many to list, but I think this is the best



Thanks for posting and yes that's about it.  I personally thought it was easier to start with a one-hand throwing action as that's a more natural motion for me, but that detail isn't super important.  The important part is that you change your intent from trying to impart the power/speed of the club into the ball (like hitting a nail with a hammer) to instead trying to fling the club through the ball in a throwing motion, and just allowing the ball to get in the way.

Another thing I've discovered is it's somewhat helpful to think of the golf ball as super light and nearly nonexistant--like a ping-pong ball--so that your body doesn't naturally "brace for impact" and tighten up your arms, wrists, and grip pressure.

this one as well, explains the difference between focus on the ball and on the target.


Just hit the damn ball.
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#44 GMR

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:58 AM

View Posti*windows, on 02 October 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

View PostGMR, on 02 October 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

View Posti*windows, on 02 October 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

@GMR, Sean Clement on YouTube has loads of videos about tossing the club, throwing it down the line, too many to list, but I think this is the best



Thanks for posting and yes that's about it.  I personally thought it was easier to start with a one-hand throwing action as that's a more natural motion for me, but that detail isn't super important.  The important part is that you change your intent from trying to impart the power/speed of the club into the ball (like hitting a nail with a hammer) to instead trying to fling the club through the ball in a throwing motion, and just allowing the ball to get in the way.

Another thing I've discovered is it's somewhat helpful to think of the golf ball as super light and nearly nonexistant--like a ping-pong ball--so that your body doesn't naturally "brace for impact" and tighten up your arms, wrists, and grip pressure.

this one as well, explains the difference between focus on the ball and on the target.


This video is actually fantastic and really highlights the challenge once faces when trying to translate the feel from a pure throw to a swing involving a ball strike.  Thanks for posting.

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#45 Man_O_War

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:59 AM

before any  one runs to ruin their golf swing with this thought...remember...the throw is after weight shift, impact and low point..in all these stages, there is no throw...there is lagging, then the throw.. release

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#46 Apollo 13

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:20 AM

I worked on this today at the range and had mixed success. When struck well the ball went further than my usual strike, but I had a tendency to miss towards the heel initially. I had to almost focus on moving the toe through the ball, rather than the sweetspot. Once I got that into my head, shots were much better. It's really nice to not think about swing/body positions!
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#47 GMR

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:58 AM

View PostApollo 13, on 02 October 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

I worked on this today at the range and had mixed success. When struck well the ball went further than my usual strike, but I had a tendency to miss towards the heel initially. I had to almost focus on moving the toe through the ball, rather than the sweetspot. Once I got that into my head, shots were much better. It's really nice to not think about swing/body positions!
Great to hear!  It certainly takes getting used to but glad to hear you picked up a bit of distance.  It really is liberating to swing athletically and without technical swing thoughts. Like anything it's not an instant fix, and when things start not working it can be very difficult to stick with since there's no swing thought to fall back on (since you are trying to avoid those), but if you can fix the little things--setup, grip pressure, tempo--you'll find it comes back very quickly.

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#48 cardoustie

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:01 AM

CONGRATS

I had the same epiphany recently.   Did a post as well as I was also excited.  Mine didn't come from tossing clubs but from fully releasing my hands and swinging to the target

Works great for short game as well

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#49 GMR

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:03 AM

View PostMan_O_War, on 02 October 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

before any  one runs to ruin their golf swing with this thought...remember...the throw is after weight shift, impact and low point..in all these stages, there is no throw...there is lagging, then the throw.. release
This is a good point and the reason that you actually have to actually experience throwing a club before the feeling will help you much.  If you imagine
throwing a club without having actually done so it's easy to make a move that you might think would work (i.e. throwing without weight shift and lag), but when you actually physically take a club and heave it on down the range you might be surprised that your perception of what you thought that would feel like isn't actually quite like the real thing.

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#50 GMR

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:14 AM

View Postcardoustie, on 02 October 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

CONGRATS

I had the same epiphany recently.   Did a post as well as I was also excited.  Mine didn't come from tossing clubs but from fully releasing my hands and swinging to the target

Works great for short game as well

Playing incredible golf right now
Congrats!  Same feeling for sure, but I'm jealous that you were able to actually get this feel without the throw.  I've known for ages that I'm SUPPOSED to release to the target, not be ball bound, etc., but until I actually experienced what that felt like it just didn't click for me.

And yes as you say (and as I mentioned above) at the moment I'm actually experiencing a more immediate and tangible effect in the short game, at least until I can consistently translate the feeling to my full swing all the way around the course.


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#51 dbleag

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:22 AM

OP -

Sounds like a combination of RIT & LOP from the Jim Hardy "Release" book.

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#52 BMWE82

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:28 PM

Just tried this feel on the range with a lot of success.  I've always been so ball/hit focused.  It's hard to describe but I don't even think about anything but the feeling of trying to throw the club. They are right when they say that the ball just gets in the way. Hopefully it's not a fad and more of a new way to play golf for me.
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#53 GMR

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:05 PM

View PostBMWE82, on 03 October 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

Just tried this feel on the range with a lot of success.  I've always been so ball/hit focused.  It's hard to describe but I don't even think about anything but the feeling of trying to throw the club. They are right when they say that the ball just gets in the way. Hopefully it's not a fad and more of a new way to play golf for me.

Congrats and welcome to the club :) As I've found, some days it's harder than others to find and harness that feel, but keep at it and it will free you from the oppression of swing thoughts!

Edited by GMR, 03 October 2017 - 02:06 PM.


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#54 tinman143

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:53 PM

Can OP do an actual vid of tossing clubs?

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#55 GMR

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:09 AM

I could but I'm not sure how helpful that would be... What would you expect to get out of that that's not in the Clement videos above, if you don't mind my asking?

If there's demand I can try to film a toss when I get home tonight.


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#56 i*windows

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:40 AM

View PostGMR, on 04 October 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

I could but I'm not sure how helpful that would be... What would you expect to get out of that that's not in the Clement videos above, if you don't mind my asking?

If there's demand I can try to film a toss when I get home tonight.

I'm sure their is a double entendre to be had about videoing yourself tossing...but I'm not sure.
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#57 Hilts1969

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:42 PM

View PostGMR, on 04 October 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

I could but I'm not sure how helpful that would be... What would you expect to get out of that that's not in the Clement videos above, if you don't mind my asking?

If there's demand I can try to film a toss when I get home tonight.

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#58 tinman143

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 11:38 PM

View PostGMR, on 04 October 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

I could but I'm not sure how helpful that would be... What would you expect to get out of that that's not in the Clement videos above, if you don't mind my asking?

If there's demand I can try to film a toss when I get home tonight.

Kinda painful going through a 10 min clement video to be honest.

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#59 Jasonic

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 01:19 AM

View Posttinman143, on 04 October 2017 - 11:38 PM, said:

View PostGMR, on 04 October 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

I could but I'm not sure how helpful that would be... What would you expect to get out of that that's not in the Clement videos above, if you don't mind my asking?

If there's demand I can try to film a toss when I get home tonight.

Kinda painful going through a 10 min clement video to be honest.

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#60 tinman143

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 01:23 AM

Kekekeke


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