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What tournaments to travel to for juniors


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#1 tiger1873

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:53 AM

It scary to think how fast you can go from playing small local 9 hole tournaments to major national tournaments in a span of 2 or 3 years.  What tournaments are worth traveling too?

I know you have your local and state tournaments that I think everyone knows about those.  I am in Texas and we have a lot competition in the local and state Tournaments. Even if you place 3 or 4th you would almost certainly win in other states.  So to to get AGJA and other performance stars it probably makes sense to travel especially in the summer. I assume this is the same for Florida or California.

My thought is traveling to northern states would make a lot sense for those of us down south to get points or win tournaments. Locally I noticed the better girls will do this once they can break 80 because they probably will not win the performance stars locally because the older girls generally score lower.

The main reason I am looking at this possibility because I can get condo's at a really good deal if I can plan ahead. being in Texas we can pretty much drive anywhere in a few days so it makes it easy to travel anytime if flights are expensive. Not only that avoiding August here makes a lot of sense.

Edited by tiger1873, 21 September 2017 - 10:54 AM.


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#2 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 11:22 AM

You don't need to play in AJGA if you are a girl and live in Texas, Florida, or California.  You will play better competition on a weekly basis than you will in an AJGA open event.

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#3 tiger1873

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:12 PM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 September 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

You don't need to play in AJGA if you are a girl and live in Texas, Florida, or California.  You will play better competition on a weekly basis than you will in an AJGA open event.

I know we don't need to play in AJGA but I also know that if she can do well in them she also rank a lot higher in junior rankings if she play's in them.

At 10 she easily scores in the low 80's already from the women tee's. So the question for her is really how low can she score in future. Have been told by a a couple of well known instructors who have seen nationally ranked players that they expect her to go far based on what they see.

So if we want to play the major AJGA events at 15 we probably need to chase qualifying for them locally and then traveling if she needs to in about a year or so.

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#4 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:18 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 21 September 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 21 September 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

You don't need to play in AJGA if you are a girl and live in Texas, Florida, or California.  You will play better competition on a weekly basis than you will in an AJGA open event.

I know we don't need to play in AJGA but I also know that if she can do well in them she also rank a lot higher in junior rankings if she play's in them.

At 10 she easily scores in the low 80's already from the women tee's. So the question for her is really how low can she score in future. Have been told by a a couple of well known instructors who have seen nationally ranked players that they expect her to go far based on what they see.

So if we want to play the major AJGA events at 15 we probably need to chase qualifying for them locally and then traveling if she needs to in about a year or so.

You don't have to have any stars to play in the invitationals.

What you need to do if you are going to chase stars is start with AJGA previews.  You can only play in one AJGA Preview.  You then need to move up and play in AJGA junior all stars.  If they have a qualifier then she needs to play in the qualifier as well.  She then needs to play in Open Qualifiers without applying to the tournament at the younger age.  This is the fastest way to build stars because you can earn stars without qualifying.  If you do qualify you don't have to use stars for entry.

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#5 tiger1873

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 01:05 PM

I haven't looked at everything yet for AJGA qualifying because I believe it's 12 before you can play them.  But it seems like for us we would want to travel to for that event for sure.
Also it seems like playing AJGA events you would want to travel to different states and compete up north in the summer and near home during the winter.

I am also trying to get a little ahead of things here a bit. I sort of have goals that she needs to pass in tournaments . I see some kids win every tournament locally but never advance like the should to higher tournaments. I think once you dominate you should look to higher levels until you reach the PGA or LPGA tours.  

For the most part I see the following scores over multiple days as indication of where you need to be at for a least girls.  

Break 80 - Get on AGJA and do state ranked tournaments

Break 75 - Do major junior tournaments and perhaps a US Open qualifier

Break par - Forget about college concentrate on being a pro.


Unless you can break par day in and day out the LPGA just doesn't pay enough.


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#6 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 01:33 PM

https://www.ajga.org...estWayToEarnPBE

This will help you.  Scroll down to Performance based entry questions.

Stars earned only last a year.

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#7 tiger1873

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 04:05 PM

The part about stars only lasting a year important so it is basically useless if there under 12 during the year they win it?

I may pursue us kids next year instead and try and go to pinehurst.

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#8 heavy_hitter

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 07:11 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 21 September 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

The part about stars only lasting a year important so it is basically useless if there under 12 during the year they win it?

I may pursue us kids next year instead and try and go to pinehurst.

100% correct.

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#9 iteachgolf

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 08:45 PM

View Posttiger1873, on 21 September 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

I haven't looked at everything yet for AJGA qualifying because I believe it's 12 before you can play them.  But it seems like for us we would want to travel to for that event for sure.
Also it seems like playing AJGA events you would want to travel to different states and compete up north in the summer and near home during the winter.

I am also trying to get a little ahead of things here a bit. I sort of have goals that she needs to pass in tournaments . I see some kids win every tournament locally but never advance like the should to higher tournaments. I think once you dominate you should look to higher levels until you reach the PGA or LPGA tours.  

For the most part I see the following scores over multiple days as indication of where you need to be at for a least girls.  

Break 80 - Get on AGJA and do state ranked tournaments

Break 75 - Do major junior tournaments and perhaps a US Open qualifier

Break par - Forget about college concentrate on being a pro.


Unless you can break par day in and day out the LPGA just doesn't pay enough.

Just because you shoot under par doesn't mean you should should turn pro and forgo college.  You're massively jumping the gun for a 10 year old girl IMO.   If she's good enough to play in AJGAs she's good enough to not have to travel out of state to qualify.  And all that is years away.  

The top junior girl I teach didn't play a single AJGA event until she was 16 and has/had a large number of fullride offers to choose from.  Let her enjoy golf and think about traveling out state when she's 14-16.   No college coach cares how good she is at 10-12 years old and traveling all over is simply a waste of money

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#10 tiger1873

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:00 PM

the above goals I put is more or less  guidelines on if it worthwhile to enter tournaments or not. With my daughter at 10 I know I am ahead of the curve but in 2 or 3 years comes pretty quick. In a few years she is most likely going to be doing the most competive golf of her life and it will largely determine what college she will go to.  Paying for tournaments and trips costs lots of money so you really need to truthful on how well they play. Many times you can see scores from the past so you should have an idea of what they should be able to place.  if your kid scores 85 and last year a 75 was the winner you need to understand  she may not place.  


As for traveling here in Texas the local events will almost certainly see a lot very very good players that are a few years older trying to qualify.  She could be ranked in the top 20 in the county and not make it. Locally you already need to break 80 from the women's tees at 11 years old to win a local PGA event. Some these girls even travel now to qualify for things like IMG and US kids because you will not win a local event unless you break par.  We even had some girls from Oklahoma who won thier state championship come in near the bottom of the field in local events.

This why I try to set realistic goals based on past performance and see if it makes it a worthwhile tournament. As for being a LPGA player If one day she can score under par on average from the same tees as an LPGA player then she is probably going to go pro sooner or later.

Very few girls will ever score that low. But if you can college is probably the last thing on your mind at that point.  You are probably going to focus on the US open and other professional Qualifing events. The girls who can score that under par on a multi day event on a regular basis means their pretty much one of the top players in the world.

Edited by tiger1873, 21 September 2017 - 09:34 PM.


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#11 Matt J

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:02 PM

You should budget for the therapy she's going to need.

Seriously, listen to iTeach and keep it fun.  Maybe even take up the game yourself and play with her.

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#12 tiger1873

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:38 PM

View PostMatt J, on 21 September 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

You should budget for the therapy she's going to need.

Seriously, listen to iTeach and keep it fun.  Maybe even take up the game yourself and play with her.

You must not live in A very competitive area.  I can almost guarantee if you live in south Florida, North Texas or southern California your kids are playing against future pro players and some them will be the next Jordan spieth or Lexi Thompson.

A lot people who do not live and compete in these areas do not understand even if you 4 or 5th place your still really good and would win every tournament in most other areas.

Edited by tiger1873, 21 September 2017 - 09:40 PM.


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#13 iteachgolf

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 05:48 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 21 September 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 21 September 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

You should budget for the therapy she's going to need.

Seriously, listen to iTeach and keep it fun.  Maybe even take up the game yourself and play with her.

You must not live in A very competitive area.  I can almost guarantee if you live in south Florida, North Texas or southern California your kids are playing against future pro players and some them will be the next Jordan spieth or Lexi Thompson.

A lot people who do not live and compete in these areas do not understand even if you 4 or 5th place your still really good and would win every tournament in most other areas.

I live and teach in Norrh FL and I teach one of the top boys and girls in the country in the 2018 class.  I have plenty of experience in this area and I'm telling you that you're going to spend way too much money and make it too serious too early.  No reason to play AJGAs until you're 15-16 and she doesn't ever have to play them and could still get a full ride scholarship.  Focus and her continued enjoyment of the game and gradual improvement

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#14 CTgolf

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 07:31 AM

As my username suggests, I live in the patsy northeast.

I have a son around the OP's daughter's age.  He wins all the local US Kids events, and even wins some of our section's Jr PGA events when we play him up and he competes against boys 2-3yrs older.  He has never competed at US Kids Worlds at Pinehurst, but he beats the kid in his age group in our area who finished top 80 this past August by up to 5 strokes per 9 holes.

He loves the game and can't get enough of it, and has expressed interest to play at the college level (he's pretty realistic even at his age that playing professionally is a long shot and, in his own words, "risky").  Unfortunately the season here is short, and he also plays a winter sport at a very high national level which complements the golf season nicely, so hopefully that reduces the chance of burnout later while developing his overall athleticism.

I think tiger1873 (username seems very descriptive of parenting style) has very good intentions for daughter, and I do believe that if a child shows tremendous ability at a young age that the parent should stay ahead of the child's progress in order to maximize potential.  But I also think that children understand and sense a lot more about their parents' intentions and hopes/dreams than we give them credit for, and oftentimes do/say things just to make their parents happy.  I also think that a lot can happen to kids as they mature: other interests, girlfriends/boyfriends, academics (unfortunately this seems so de-emphasized in the US vs youth sports) - I think it's best for parents and children to keep expectations low while still keeping aspirations high.  I struggle with this a lot for my own son.

I would like to see more constructive comments/replies to tiger1873's many questions.  I realize that oftentimes our visceral reaction is to chastise for being a 'tiger' parent and let kids be kids, but it sounds like daughter is quite talented and maybe the kid is intrinsically motivated and tiger1873 needs advice to stay ahead of her development.

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#15 dpb5031

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:07 AM

I started the following thread over 5 years ago.  My daughter is now in college.  There's plenty of info and insights from folks who have been through this journey:
http://www.golfwrx.c...__fromsearch__1


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#16 darter79

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:25 AM

View Posttiger1873, on 21 September 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

View PostMatt J, on 21 September 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

You should budget for the therapy she's going to need.

Seriously, listen to iTeach and keep it fun.  Maybe even take up the game yourself and play with her.

You must not live in A very competitive area.  I can almost guarantee if you live in south Florida, North Texas or southern California your kids are playing against future pro players and some them will be the next Jordan spieth or Lexi Thompson.

A lot people who do not live and compete in these areas do not understand even if you 4 or 5th place your still really good and would win every tournament in most other areas.

I live in central Texas and yes it can be competitive, but that should drive her to want to beat the likes of Avery Zweig and others that play in that area, not try to avoid them. I noticed with mine that she plays up to competition and down as well. At her age I wouldn't travel outside the state. There is a lot of areas to play, have her drive down to Austin play down here. Have her play in  the starburst tournaments, NTPGA, STPGA. Lots of good tournaments here, even the US kids can be quite competitive, plus we have the state and regional event hosted in Texas. Unless there is a vacation attached I wouldn't travel outside the state with the expectation of US Kids Worlds. I am new to junior golf as my daughter is only 7 so take it for what its worth, but there is lots of great junior golf with in the great state of Texas.

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#17 tiger1873

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:42 AM

View Postdarter79, on 22 September 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

I live in central Texas and yes it can be competitive, but that should drive her to want to beat the likes of Avery Zweig and others that play in that area, not try to avoid them. I noticed with mine that she plays up to competition and down as well. At her age I wouldn't travel outside the state. There is a lot of areas to play, have her drive down to Austin play down here. Have her play in  the starburst tournaments, NTPGA, STPGA. Lots of good tournaments here, even the US kids can be quite competitive, plus we have the state and regional event hosted in Texas. Unless there is a vacation attached I wouldn't travel outside the state with the expectation of US Kids Worlds. I am new to junior golf as my daughter is only 7 so take it for what its worth, but there is lots of great junior golf with in the great state of Texas.

Competing against Avery not really an issue here and she does. Avery still plays US kid local events all the time which to me doesn't make sense. I think her dad does it to deny anyone else from qualifying for higher events. I believe she is exempt for worlds at this point.  Even Avery travels out of state to compete in events to qualify. I am not a fan of how her dad pushes her. I think it sad how hard he pushes. It because of dads like her I actually want to compete out of state more often because they make every event high pressure even though nothing is really on the line.  It will be interesting to see if these wonder kid golfers make it in a few years.

My younger daughters age is a much better group as the dads are more interested in just seeing the kids play.

I am not worried about finding competitive events at this age since we have plenty of competition here. I am worried about here trying to qualify at AGJA event or a ranking tournament when it matters against girls 2 or 3 years older in a few years. She has shown some talent and can drive very far for her age. In the Drive chip and putt she drove 235 yards so perhaps it not an issue I need to worry about since she may actually be scoring very low in a few years. I have a few friends who boys played against Jordan Speith when they we 12 or 13 and there boys lost interest in golf when they lost to him. The regretted not pushing them more and doing tournaments elsewhere because they may have good enough for scholarships since they can par a lot courses out there.

I see plenty of good junior golfers around here who may never win a tournament but probably would be superstars elsewhere. That can really put a lot doubt in a kids head. I am more worried about her attitude is she ends up simply not being able to score low enough to qualify in major events in Texas but still have decent numbers that would win elsewhere. I have told  she is almost certain to get a scholarship if she keeps it up from what I been told by people in involved with a D2 program.

Edited by tiger1873, 22 September 2017 - 09:58 AM.


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#18 heavy_hitter

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 10:34 AM

View PostCTgolf, on 22 September 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:


I would like to see more constructive comments/replies to tiger1873's many questions.  I realize that oftentimes our visceral reaction is to chastise for being a 'tiger' parent and let kids be kids, but it sounds like daughter is quite talented and maybe the kid is intrinsically motivated and tiger1873 needs advice to stay ahead of her development.

Who are you to tell adults how to act, what to say, and how to say it?  Pound Sand.

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#19 CTgolf

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 10:35 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 22 September 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 22 September 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

I would like to see more constructive comments/replies to tiger1873's many questions.  I realize that oftentimes our visceral reaction is to chastise for being a 'tiger' parent and let kids be kids, but it sounds like daughter is quite talented and maybe the kid is intrinsically motivated and tiger1873 needs advice to stay ahead of her development.

Who are you to tell adults how to act, what to say, and how to say it?  Pound Sand.

Wow

You are you to tell me to "pound sand"?

Comical

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#20 heavy_hitter

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 01:33 PM

View PostCTgolf, on 22 September 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

View Postheavy_hitter, on 22 September 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

View PostCTgolf, on 22 September 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

I would like to see more constructive comments/replies to tiger1873's many questions.  I realize that oftentimes our visceral reaction is to chastise for being a 'tiger' parent and let kids be kids, but it sounds like daughter is quite talented and maybe the kid is intrinsically motivated and tiger1873 needs advice to stay ahead of her development.

Matt J had a legitimate response.  Doesn't mean I agree with it, because I don't.  It isn't for you to determine who says what nor how they say it.  That is one of the reasons we live in the greatest country in the world.  Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing.

To answer your question on who I am...  I am the man.

Who are you to tell adults how to act, what to say, and how to say it?  Pound Sand.

Wow

You are you to tell me to "pound sand"?

Comical

MattJ and others have the right to say what they want.  Though I don't agree with it, the response was a legitimate response.  No one, including you, should try to squash the thoughts and words of others no matter how much you dislike it.  Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing that can stir interesting topics.

To answer your question on who am I.....  I am the man.

Edited by heavy_hitter, 22 September 2017 - 01:38 PM.


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#21 Matt J

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 07:53 PM

My point of view is that if your kid doesn't want to play golf because they can't beat everybody in their region, then they weren't going to make it very far with golf anyways.

It's about passion for the game, not results.

I grew up in a crazy competitive sports environment and my community produced a lot of professional athletes, but they also produced a lot of kids with a lot of baggage.

Obviously you're an adult and can do what you like, but I don't think it's not "constructive" to offer a view point that masterminding a 10 year old's amateur career is a faulty premise.  You've got a chance to place the proper emphasis on a recreational activity.  I'd encourage you to take it.  You've got one of the best coaches in the country telling you that more kids lose interest than can't get a scholarship.  Argue all you want, but you're more likely to ruin it for your kid than any other girls that are 2 years older than she.  Do you really think going to a "less competitive" region is going to land you easy results and less pushy parents?  Really?  There's no such thing as a less competitive environment in America and if there was would you want your child to learn to play down and take a less prestigious trophy just to win?  Is that going to get her to the pinnacle?

Edited by Matt J, 22 September 2017 - 07:54 PM.


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#22 tiger1873

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:30 PM

You logic is flawed let's take a look at the local US Kids tour with the girl mentioned above. She scored 2 under par last week plenty of her competitors out there including my daughter can do score perhaps +1 or +2 so they are still good.  Since there are 4 or 5 girls who can have a good or bad day and do the same thing it becomes a lot pressure to win and birdie each hole.

The pressure with local US kids tournaments have gotten so bad most of the better players just avoid it all together now. It is not worth getting beat up playing 9 holes week after week when there are better alternatives and they can play 18 with lots of competition that isn't ranked anywhere at this age.

At the end of the season here it be perhaps only 2 girls won and the rest of kids do not get any qualifying points.  So what ends up 3 or 4 girls who can score close to par do not get chance to move up.

Meanwhile a girl in Wyoming scores +30 and skates her way to the next level only to come in near the bottom when she actually competes with the other girls.  What ends up hear there iss less competition  as they move higher in regional competition. Then they end up competing with the girls from Florida and California and pretty much rank in the top 10 at Pinehurst. I know you can still go on a waiting list but it just doesn't seem right unless you win.


Based on your logic the girls who are good so go home and call it a day instead because they didn't make birdie on most holes at 10.

This is how the us kids tournaments work here but all the higher tournaments are similar. At higher levels there are older girls who haven't made you will need to compete angainst perhaps the only reason there haven't moved up is they can not afford to travel. You really do not want to be a player in that position if you are a decent player. Most will travel if they can afford to to avoid that fate. Wining performance stars will take a long time to do if you go that route.

At this age we avoid local tournaments that end up being highly contested but it does not mean much.  my daughter has her own goals and does win but is more worried about improving her game and working things she need to improve.

My job is in a few years make sure I put her in events she can win based on her scores at local tournaments. I am pretty sure she will be good st the end of a day and she will be successful in whatever she chooses.

Edited by tiger1873, 22 September 2017 - 08:59 PM.


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#23 iteachgolf

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:38 PM

She doesn't have to win to be successful or earn a scholarship.  US Kids is literally meaningless.  Carries zero weight whatsoever.  Getting into AJGA events is way easier than you're making it out to be, especially for girls.  If she's as good as you say she could make it through the qualifiers in the open events which require zero performance stars.

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#24 tiger1873

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:47 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 22 September 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

She doesn't have to win to be successful or earn a scholarship.  US Kids is literally meaningless.  Carries zero weight whatsoever.  Getting into AJGA events is way easier than you're making it out to be, especially for girls.  If she's as good as you say she could make it through the qualifiers in the open events which require zero performance stars.

I know US kids are worthless. I was using it as an example and I really think getting birdies at 10 to win is not the kind of pressure a kid needs at this age even if they can do it.  I also know getting in AJGA is very much in her future if she continues.

We most likely though will do a qualifier up north when she is old enough to maximize her chances. From what i have seen though is quite a few events in the northeast will outrank girls who win a lot events in Texas. They also seem to have way less compilation .The way rankings work seem to give a lot weight based on tradition.

Edited by tiger1873, 22 September 2017 - 09:03 PM.


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#25 heavy_hitter

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:46 AM

Tiger, while I enjoy your posts you also have a flawed logic.  You don't know what your 10 year old is going to do in 2 years let alone 5 years.  I have seen good girl golfers come and go.  There is a 2018 here in Florida that was a can't miss kid when she was 10, now 17 years old.  She won everything when she was 10.  She even moved up to play against 13-15 year olds playing from 5300 to 5700 yards.  She was shooting low 70's and beating them all when the distances were under 5500 yards.  Then the jump to 5800 yards happened a couple of years later.  She wasn't long enough to play from that distance and still isn't.  She is now a senior, struggles to break 80, and is being recruited by no one.

Live this adventure one day at a time.  Don't think too far ahead.  You have to stay ahead, but 10 years old is too young to start thinking of stars, tournaments several years away, and even college.


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#26 tiger1873

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:04 AM

View Postheavy_hitter, on 25 September 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

Tiger, while I enjoy your posts you also have a flawed logic.  You don't know what your 10 year old is going to do in 2 years let alone 5 years.  I have seen good girl golfers come and go.  There is a 2018 here in Florida that was a can't miss kid when she was 10, now 17 years old.  She won everything when she was 10.  She even moved up to play against 13-15 year olds playing from 5300 to 5700 yards.  She was shooting low 70's and beating them all when the distances were under 5500 yards.  Then the jump to 5800 yards happened a couple of years later.  She wasn't long enough to play from that distance and still isn't.  She is now a senior, struggles to break 80, and is being recruited by no one.

Live this adventure one day at a time.  Don't think too far ahead.  You have to stay ahead, but 10 years old is too young to start thinking of stars, tournaments several years away, and even college.

I have no clue how my daughters will actually place in 5 or 6 years. Like you said plenty of kids come and go. I do know my older daughter loves golf. It came out of no where when she was younger.  I figured she would do cheerleading when she was young like all the other girls.  She constantly looking for golf books at school and wants to practice every chance she can get.


I did not know much about tournament golf other then scrambles you do at work. If I didn't look ahead though I may have discouraged my daughter from playing in tournaments. I have actually noticed the younger kids who win at younger age play it safe and always seem to get around 80 but have a hard time breaking 80. Don't get me wrong that is a good score but if you never are allowed to get in trouble on the golf course then you never learn to get out of trouble and in order to break 80 you need to recover a bad shot and have a highly developed game.

The main reason I am thinking about AGJA is we are planing out her goals for the next year.  She will be eligible in about 2 years to start going for stars playing in tournaments. So I am really looking at what goals she can accomplish in the next year so she is ready to compete. Obviously is she is not ready we will not be competing.

I can also get pretty good deals on condo's if you plan a year out. In many cases I can actually pay less then $30 a night,  That means I can save a lot of money on booking hotel rooms and such for travel. If I really want to go somewhere it helps to actually plan a few years in advance to see how availability works out. It's another topic though on getting hotel rooms.

Edited by tiger1873, 25 September 2017 - 10:09 AM.


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