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Putter toe hang - between 45 and face balanced


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#1 getitdaily

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 02:48 PM

I've had 2 putters since 2003; a Scotty Newport beach and an Odyssey 2ball fang.

Now, I don't go back and forth between these putters for play. I've gamed the 2ball fang since I bought it. But I sometimes take the Scotty out just to toy with it. The Scotty was my darling when I practiced a bunch. Made 9 birdies with the beautiful thing once in 2005. Got into a bad stroke stretch and the 2ball fang just held its line so well and I was super confident from 10 feet and in.

Now, the more I played around with both putters, i noticed something peculiar. From 10 feet and in, the 2ball fang is money...like 8 or 9 out of 10 money. The Scotty...6 maybe 7 out of 10. BUT, 12-20 feet, it's the opposite. The Scotty is usually 5 or 6 out of ten and the 2ball fang is 3-5 out of ten.

I've been to a SAM puttlab and I generally don't rotate the face much. With the 2ball I got about 1.6 open to nearly 2 closed. At address I'm .6 open and at impact I'm .7 closed. Path is 3.5-4 degrees left.

Research on evnroll putters showed me.that the er7 is around 30 degrees of toe hang. It's the evnroll I like the best.

I'm wondering if a 30 degree toe hang putter just might be the best for me for both worlds...under 10 feet and greater than 10 feet. Seems greater than 10 feet for me is better with some face rotation but I love the stability of the high moi inside 10 feet. While the evnroll isn't as high moi as the 2ball fang, people swear the grooves help make more putts inside 10 feet.

Any of you physics geeks out there got anything on the 30.degree toe hang being my sweet spot putter?

Edited by getitdaily, 12 September 2017 - 02:49 PM.


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#2 Scotty1140

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:09 PM

You make 50% from 20'? Are you Jordan Spieth?

Edited by Scotty1140, 12 September 2017 - 03:10 PM.


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#3 getitdaily

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:26 PM

I wish. I'm a practice green champion. It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20 when you know the line. Different story when you put green reading into the mix on a "1 shot at it" from 20 feet while playing.


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#4 Cpm881

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 12:56 PM

Might try Odyssey #1W. I think it's listed as being face balanced, but I have one and it definitely has little toe hang.

I'm also on look out for putters with a little bit of toe hang.

#1W is nice, but I'm not a fan of the insert. Rolls the ball nice but I can't tell where on face I hit the ball.
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#5 Scottie68

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 10:22 PM

If you like the Odyssey 1W, or any version for that matter, the metal x milled is a non-insert option.


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#6 extrastiff

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 08:08 AM

I know this thread is dead but. . . .

my 2 ball fang just got benched because from 20+ feet, the weight of the head affected the shaft flex too much IMO, and made for inconsistent percentages from that far out.


Every other putter (with toe-hang, face balanced sux) i hit was my average percentages from 3,6,10, and 20+ feet.  2 ball fang was better in all categories except 20+, where is was substantially below my LAG putting averages.
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#7 huddledtoast

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 08:27 AM

View Postgetitdaily, on 12 September 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

I wish. I'm a practice green champion. It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20 when you know the line. Different story when you put green reading into the mix on a "1 shot at it" from 20 feet while playing.

I know this thread is dead, but if OP can post a vid of him going 55% from 20', I'll email him $100.

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#8 Jack Pearsall

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 06:55 PM

Have same sort of issue, tho JP doesnít know anything about all the # and stats.
He suffered on lags with high moi putters. He used an WH XG #6 which is a larger anser type but has a weight bar. Sort of like a squareback in weight terms.
It has kind of a different hosel that isnít seen so much, but it has modest toe hang. JP got weary of xg insert so he went to a Cameron Newport tei3 with a longneck. Thereís a tiny more toe weight it seems but the insert is much crisper and so far itís been a delight. Thinking of adding some weight to it but not sure how to without making a damn mess of this old putter...

Edited by Jack Pearsall, 28 September 2018 - 06:56 PM.

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#9 getitdaily

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 07:21 PM

View Posthuddledtoast, on 27 September 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 12 September 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

I wish. I'm a practice green champion. It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20 when you know the line. Different story when you put green reading into the mix on a "1 shot at it" from 20 feet while playing.

I know this thread is dead, but if OP can post a vid of him going 55% from 20', I'll email him $100.

Give me a week or two and I'll post that video. Will be nice to have another $100 to play wrx'er with.

As I noted in another post in this thread, putting the same putt over and over on the practice green is a very different story than putting 20 footers during a round of golf.

But I can spend enough time where I get 6/10 from 20'...

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#10 LeoLeo99

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 07:22 PM

View Postextrastiff, on 27 September 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

I know this thread is dead but. . . .

my 2 ball fang just got benched because from 20+ feet, the weight of the head affected the shaft flex too much IMO, and made for inconsistent percentages from that far out.


Every other putter (with toe-hang, face balanced sux) i hit was my average percentages from 3,6,10, and 20+ feet.  2 ball fang was better in all categories except 20+, where is was substantially below my LAG putting averages.

You need the tour x stiff putter shaft.


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#11 getitdaily

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 07:25 PM

View Postextrastiff, on 27 September 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

I know this thread is dead but. . . .

my 2 ball fang just got benched because from 20+ feet, the weight of the head affected the shaft flex too much IMO, and made for inconsistent percentages from that far out.


Every other putter (with toe-hang, face balanced sux) i hit was my average percentages from 3,6,10, and 20+ feet.  2 ball fang was better in all categories except 20+, where is was substantially below my LAG putting averages.

I'm the opposite of you. From outside 5 feet, and especially 20 feet, the 2ball is probably the best putter I've had. But I can't seem to consistently line the putter up from 3 to 5 feet.

I have a tyne and a vault oslo that are better than the 2ball fang from short distance. But they don't beat it from 20'.

I'm looking forward to next year's models to see what alignment options cally delivers. I think I want a Daniel berger like line/ball combo to help with alignment on short putts.

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#12 extrastiff

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 07:46 PM

View Postgetitdaily, on 28 September 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

View Postextrastiff, on 27 September 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

I know this thread is dead but. . . .

my 2 ball fang just got benched because from 20+ feet, the weight of the head affected the shaft flex too much IMO, and made for inconsistent percentages from that far out.


Every other putter (with toe-hang, face balanced sux) i hit was my average percentages from 3,6,10, and 20+ feet.  2 ball fang was better in all categories except 20+, where is was substantially below my LAG putting averages.

I'm the opposite of you. From outside 5 feet, and especially 20 feet, the 2ball is probably the best putter I've had. But I can't seem to consistently line the putter up from 3 to 5 feet.

I have a tyne and a vault oslo that are better than the 2ball fang from short distance. But they don't beat it from 20'.

I'm looking forward to next year's models to see what alignment options cally delivers. I think I want a Daniel berger like line/ball combo to help with alignment on short putts.

interesting.  I wouldnt say opposite tho! it was great 5-20, and even 20+ it was solid roll-wise, but id push it a ton from that far out.  The high weight and moi was great at all distances tho.  I have a SC red X3 with i think 35 degree of toe hang which if im not mistaken is similar to 2ball fang and newport 2, my two faves.  I think after much ado about nothing, that it will be the two ball type- arc and feel without flex.  

If not, project x 6.5 hazrdus black low spin shaft in the two ball :pimp:
lol.  but actually like previous poster said, tour x stiff in the 2ball putter(like bettinardi stuff) if the X3 doesnt cut it

Edited by extrastiff, 28 September 2018 - 07:47 PM.

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#13 getitdaily

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 08:20 PM

This is what I may end up doing to my 2ball fang if cally doesn't offer this in the next cycle...

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Edited by getitdaily, 28 September 2018 - 08:20 PM.


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#14 Opinder

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 04:54 PM

View Postgetitdaily, on 28 September 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

This is what I may end up doing to my 2ball fang if cally doesn't offer this in the next cycle...

It's not working.

I offer you, line "T" or 2 ball small circle.

Please don't troll me.
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#15 getitdaily

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 05:33 PM

View PostOpinder, on 30 September 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 28 September 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

This is what I may end up doing to my 2ball fang if cally doesn't offer this in the next cycle...

It's not working.

I offer you, line "T" or 2 ball small circle.

Please don't troll me.

Gonna have to ditch the groucho bit on this one. I have zero idea what you're trying to say here...


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#16 getitdaily

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 02:53 PM

View Posthuddledtoast, on 27 September 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 12 September 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

I wish. I'm a practice green champion. It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20 when you know the line. Different story when you put green reading into the mix on a "1 shot at it" from 20 feet while playing.

I know this thread is dead, but if OP can post a vid of him going 55% from 20', I'll email him $100.

Well, didn't record it but I marked off 20 feet Saturday and proceeded to nail 7/10 with my oslo and immediately 6/10 with my 2ball fang.

Putting 10 putts in a row from the same spot is easy pickens. However, as soon as I went to 1 ball, 1 putt from 10-20 feet from various places...barely made anything.

So thanks for pointing out that I need more "real" world practice...1 ball, 1 putt, never from the same spot.

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#17 GimmieHendrix

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 03:15 PM

Quote

It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20

6 of 10 at 20 feet with consistency would be miraculous putting. https://www.pgatour....s/stat.406.html

Quote

I marked off 20 feet Saturday and proceeded to nail 7/10 with my oslo and immediately 6/10 with my 2ball fang.

I'm sure you're an honest man, must have been an error in marking, let's see a quick video. Thanks.

Edited by GimmieHendrix, 08 October 2018 - 03:17 PM.


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#18 getitdaily

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 04:39 PM

View PostGimmieHendrix, on 08 October 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Quote

It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20

6 of 10 at 20 feet with consistency would be miraculous putting. https://www.pgatour....s/stat.406.html

Quote

I marked off 20 feet Saturday and proceeded to nail 7/10 with my oslo and immediately 6/10 with my 2ball fang.

I'm sure you're an honest man, must have been an error in marking, let's see a quick video. Thanks.

Would love to show a video, but I didn't record it.

However, you posted a link of the pga tour avg from 20 feet. That's any putt from 20 feet, not the same putt 10 times in a row. If I showed you my sam puttlab data you'd understand why I could stand over 10 straight putts from 20feet and make 6 or 7 of them. My consistency numbers are in the 90+%. Same alignment, same path, same face rotation, same rhythm, etc.

Where I struggle is confidently making a good stroke over ANY 1 time 20 foot putt.

Thus why I thanked the original challenger on helping me identify that I need to spend more time putting with 1 ball from various spots inside 10 and 20 feet...

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#19 GimmieHendrix

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:28 PM

View Postgetitdaily, on 08 October 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

View PostGimmieHendrix, on 08 October 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Quote

It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20

6 of 10 at 20 feet with consistency would be miraculous putting. https://www.pgatour....s/stat.406.html

Quote

I marked off 20 feet Saturday and proceeded to nail 7/10 with my oslo and immediately 6/10 with my 2ball fang.

I'm sure you're an honest man, must have been an error in marking, let's see a quick video. Thanks.

Would love to show a video, but I didn't record it.

However, you posted a link of the pga tour avg from 20 feet. That's any putt from 20 feet, not the same putt 10 times in a row. If I showed you my sam puttlab data you'd understand why I could stand over 10 straight putts from 20feet and make 6 or 7 of them. My consistency numbers are in the 90+%. Same alignment, same path, same face rotation, same rhythm, etc.

Where I struggle is confidently making a good stroke over ANY 1 time 20 foot putt.

Thus why I thanked the original challenger on helping me identify that I need to spend more time putting with 1 ball from various spots inside 10 and 20 feet...

I don't believe you can hit 13 out of 20 from 20 feet under any conditions, let alone consistently. You'd have to post a video. If you can, that would be awesome to watch. :)

Edited by GimmieHendrix, 08 October 2018 - 08:05 PM.


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#20 extrastiff

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 07:54 AM

View Postgetitdaily, on 08 October 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

View PostGimmieHendrix, on 08 October 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Quote

It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20

6 of 10 at 20 feet with consistency would be miraculous putting. https://www.pgatour....s/stat.406.html

Quote

I marked off 20 feet Saturday and proceeded to nail 7/10 with my oslo and immediately 6/10 with my 2ball fang.

I'm sure you're an honest man, must have been an error in marking, let's see a quick video. Thanks.

Would love to show a video, but I didn't record it.

However, you posted a link of the pga tour avg from 20 feet. That's any putt from 20 feet, not the same putt 10 times in a row. If I showed you my sam puttlab data you'd understand why I could stand over 10 straight putts from 20feet and make 6 or 7 of them. My consistency numbers are in the 90+%. Same alignment, same path, same face rotation, same rhythm, etc.

Where I struggle is confidently making a good stroke over ANY 1 time 20 foot putt.

Thus why I thanked the original challenger on helping me identify that I need to spend more time putting with 1 ball from various spots inside 10 and 20 feet...

Yea getitdaily I've seen you make some good post's around the forum so def not inclined to suggest your lying, but those are awesome percentages and a video of that is something I would make part of my regular training lol.

I don't know if practicing 1 putt from different spots will help, sounds spotty.. I really recommend Phil micklesons secret of the short game for you. Great drills, going in circles around the cup to increase green reading prowess.

But dude..7/10 from 20?

Not impossible, just really wanna see a vid�

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#21 getitdaily

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:03 AM

View Postextrastiff, on 09 October 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

View Postgetitdaily, on 08 October 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

View PostGimmieHendrix, on 08 October 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Quote

It's easy to make 5 or 6 of 10 from 20

6 of 10 at 20 feet with consistency would be miraculous putting. https://www.pgatour....s/stat.406.html

Quote

I marked off 20 feet Saturday and proceeded to nail 7/10 with my oslo and immediately 6/10 with my 2ball fang.

I'm sure you're an honest man, must have been an error in marking, let's see a quick video. Thanks.

Would love to show a video, but I didn't record it.

However, you posted a link of the pga tour avg from 20 feet. That's any putt from 20 feet, not the same putt 10 times in a row. If I showed you my sam puttlab data you'd understand why I could stand over 10 straight putts from 20feet and make 6 or 7 of them. My consistency numbers are in the 90+%. Same alignment, same path, same face rotation, same rhythm, etc.

Where I struggle is confidently making a good stroke over ANY 1 time 20 foot putt.

Thus why I thanked the original challenger on helping me identify that I need to spend more time putting with 1 ball from various spots inside 10 and 20 feet...

Yea getitdaily I've seen you make some good post's around the forum so def not inclined to suggest your lying, but those are awesome percentages and a video of that is something I would make part of my regular training lol.

I don't know if practicing 1 putt from different spots will help, sounds spotty.. I really recommend Phil micklesons secret of the short game for you. Great drills, going in circles around the cup to increase green reading prowess.

But dude..7/10 from 20?

Not impossible, just really wanna see a vid�

Yeah, I get that it's hard to believe.

A video of me putting 10 balls from the same spot from 20 feet just isn't something I'm going to spend time on. You'll have to trust me. And I'm not demanding payment of the $100 bet from the poster who made the challenge...lol

I will say that, as I've noted, most people are skeptical because of % make of pga pros from 20 feet. That stat and what I did from 20' are nowhere near the same though. 10 random putts from 20'...I probably make 1/10. The same putt over and over and over...different story. I should also note that I started at 5 feet, then went to 10 feet, then to 20 feet...same line, just different distances. So I knew exactly what break to play. From there it's just line up and stroke it.

So, I get the skepticism. But, if anyone can help me take my practice putting to the course then I'm all ears because lately I've been making absolutely nothing on the course...

Edited by getitdaily, 09 October 2018 - 09:04 AM.


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#22 extrastiff

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:37 AM


I'm only skeptical cause I do lots of lag putting drills, where I putt the ball from the same spot each time and I could never hope to do seven for 10! Oh, and this is golf works, where the average posters driver Carry distance is 300�

Regardless, moving on since we will never get your magical training video LOL, and I am not so skeptical that I'm willing to suggest your lying. Not that implausible.

But if you're struggling with putting, Phil Mickelson secrets of the short game really helped me out though.  The drills are helpful, but most importantly to me was understanding what realistic percentages should be.

Are used to be disappointed when I missed 10 footers. I still get a bit bummed, but understanding that the percentages across amateurs and professionals are less than 50% for those putts made it much easier for me to stomach and move onto the next hole.

One for 10 from 20 foot sounds about right, maybe two. I'm not sure how to get you anywhere close to 50% from 20 foot. 50% from 6 feet is realistic average, and I think I'm at about %55 for my 6-10 footers. Phils secrets got me there
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tour preferred UDI 3 iron | testing Black 105 6.5
MP5 4-PW | TT DG X100
hi-toe 52*9, 58*10 | TT DG X100
hi-toe 62*5 | KBS hi-rev 2.0 115
X3 Red or Newport 2

3 iron vs. 62 wedge is a game-day decision.

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#23 GimmieHendrix

GimmieHendrix

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 11:01 AM

Quote

Not that implausible.

It is actually. But... It is what it is. Not lying so much as clearly not measuring correctly, which video would reveal, so no video. But highly implausible. Cheers. :)

Edited by GimmieHendrix, 09 October 2018 - 11:07 AM.


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