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Are they really that much longer


71 replies to this topic

#31 Night train

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:22 PM

View Postruffellprefley, on 12 September 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

why do people keep insisting on comparing spin numbers between one set's 7 iron and another set's 7 iron when their lofts are so different?  check out the equivalent loft and compare spin numbers. the G400s of the world don't seem so low spin if you compare in the right way. additionally, they're generally higher launch, so you don't need as much spin to hold a green.

........because the argument doesn't work if you use some logic........compare the 140 yard club in each set and look at spin........or any other yardage you wish to use

Edited by Night train, 12 September 2017 - 03:23 PM.


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#32 BirdieBob

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:23 PM

View Postruffellprefley, on 12 September 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

why do people keep insisting on comparing spin numbers between one set's 7 iron and another set's 7 iron when their lofts are so different?  check out the equivalent loft and compare spin numbers. the G400s of the world don't seem so low spin if you compare in the right way. additionally, they're generally higher launch, so you don't need as much spin to hold a green.


In order to show why one iron is longer than the other!
Spin is the commonality between these distance irons...low spin.
If you want more spin you must have more loft.

The lower loft is offset in the design by a lower COG that increases height.  All in order to achieve a similar peak height between dissimilar 7 irons.
No, they are not higher launch by design.  Higher launch will be a function of the shaft used with a more flexible shaft seeing higher launch and stiffer shafts a lower launch.
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#33 North Butte

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:37 PM

For most players, shaft tip stiffness is very low on the list of things influencing trajectory.

I have a 90mph (driver) clubhead speed and zero lag during my downswing. I challenge you to create 0.1 degree higher launch angle on a 7-iron by giving me a more flexible shaft. It ain't happening no way, no how.

According to Tom Wishon, only a few percent of golfers he has ever fitted have sufficient clubhead speed and lag to be able to change trajectories with a "high launch" vs. "low launch" shaft.

But every single golfer will see higher trajectory from low COG, farther back COG and higher COR clubfaces.
Everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the funeral expenses.

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#34 BirdieBob

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:39 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 12 September 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

For most players, shaft tip stiffness is very low on the list of things influencing trajectory.

I have a 90mph (driver) clubhead speed and zero lag during my downswing. I challenge you to create 0.1 degree higher launch angle on a 7-iron by giving me a more flexible shaft. It ain't happening no way, no how.

According to Tom Wishon, only a few percent of golfers he has ever fitted have sufficient clubhead speed and lag to be able to change trajectories with a "high launch" vs. "low launch" shaft.

But every single golfer will see higher trajectory from low COG, farther back COG and higher COR clubfaces.


AND that is why the distance irons have lower lofts to keep the launch lower as a result of the COG placement.  Fundamental stuff really!

Only way to get the ball higher is with a more flexible shaft or swing adjustment as I said above.

Edited by BirdieBob, 12 September 2017 - 03:40 PM.

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#35 BirdieBob

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:48 PM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these "Distance irons".  As long as the buyer is aware of the tradeoff with lower spin.
If lower spin is not an issue then go for them.  BUT the manufactures do not list "lower spin" or talk about lower spin.  What they talk about is DISTANCE.

If one needs more spin like a PGA TOUR PRO then a distance iron is not your cup of tea.

Get what works and know what you're getting!

Best,
BB

Edited by BirdieBob, 12 September 2017 - 03:49 PM.

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#36 DeCuchi

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:13 PM

But why keep the launch lower in the first place? If the 28* iron launches at (x) degrees and (x) rpm spin and (x) ball speed.  Why is that ball flight now too high and ineffective when you put a 5 on the bottom, but it's awesome when you put a 6 or a 7 on it?  The wind wouldn't effect it any differently. The ball would react the same when hitting the green.  Why? Because marketing works.  Launch windows people!  Launch windows.

Edited by DeCuchi, 12 September 2017 - 04:16 PM.

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#37 BirdieBob

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:29 PM

View PostDeCuchi, on 12 September 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

But why keep the launch lower in the first place? If the 28* iron launches at (x) degrees and (x) rpm spin and (x) ball speed.  Why is that ball flight now too high and ineffective when you put a 5 on the bottom, but it's awesome when you put a 6 or a 7 on it?  The wind wouldn't effect it any differently. The ball would react the same when hitting the green.  Why? Because marketing works.  Launch windows people!  Launch windows.


Simple:  Distance iron is #7 iron with #7 iron trajectory and peak height, but #6 iron distance and spin.
IF it had the same height as a #6 iron then it would be just that.
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#38 phatchrisrules

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:41 PM

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these "Distance irons".  As long as the buyer is aware of the tradeoff with lower spin.
If lower spin is not an issue then go for them.  BUT the manufactures do not list "lower spin" or talk about lower spin.  What they talk about is DISTANCE.

If one needs more spin like a PGA TOUR PRO then a distance iron is not your cup of tea.

Get what works and know what you're getting!

Best,
BB

But they aren't always lower spinning. I've seen some people spin newer clubs up to 1500 RPMs more and have a better descent angle than they do with their old technology clubs from even 5 years ago with weaker lofts.

A low CG = more launch. Lower loft is used to keep the ball flight respectable in terms of being able to cut through the wind. Most golf shots don't actually fly higher or lower than anything else. I hit my 6i at 30y peak height and my driver at 31-33y peak height depending on the loft of the club. It just looks like I hit a 6i higher because it is closer to us than the driver is when it achieves its apex.

Also, better golf balls are going to spin much more too. I hit a TopFlite vs a TP5 and with the same launch and ball speed the spin was up almost 2k RPMs from 4100 to 5800. I hit the TP5 further because it hit the ideal launch windows.

Most people are fit for irons that spin too much. Most aren't playing your quality 15 stimp meter courses. We don't need to suck a ball back 15-20 feet. I launch my 7i 19* and with 5500 which is universally chastised as too low and I one hop and stop every green. Trust me, you can absolutely hit the ball a ridiculous distance with these numbers and still hit the ball straighter and hold a green provided you have a descent or landing angle of 45-50*.

I carried my 7i 150 last year at 33* with a heavier shaft. I now carry my 7i at 30* with a 10g lighter shaft 170. Both one hopped and stopped. And no I haven't added any extra wedges and no I dont have any distance gaps.

It's fun hitting 2 clubs less into a green now. Try it sometime. You might enjoy it ;)

Edited by phatchrisrules, 12 September 2017 - 04:42 PM.

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#39 Night train

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:43 PM

So my new 7 iron flies as high as my old 7 iron but spins like my old 6 iron and goes the same distance as my old six iron.

.......I'm hitting it higher and farther with a shorter club. I don't need to worry about my six holding the green, because it's now a seven iron shot.

My new 170 yard club is simply easier to hit.

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#40 BirdieBob

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:47 PM

View Postphatchrisrules, on 12 September 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these "Distance irons".  As long as the buyer is aware of the tradeoff with lower spin.
If lower spin is not an issue then go for them.  BUT the manufactures do not list "lower spin" or talk about lower spin.  What they talk about is DISTANCE.

If one needs more spin like a PGA TOUR PRO then a distance iron is not your cup of tea.

Get what works and know what you're getting!

Best,
BB

But they aren't always lower spinning. I've seen some people spin newer clubs up to 1500 RPMs more and have a better descent angle than they do with their old technology clubs from even 5 years ago with weaker lofts.

A low CG = more launch. Lower loft is used to keep the ball flight respectable in terms of being able to cut through the wind. Most golf shots don't actually fly higher or lower than anything else. I hit my 6i at 30y peak height and my driver at 31-33y peak height depending on the loft of the club. It just looks like I hit a 6i higher because it is closer to us than the driver is when it achieves its apex.

Also, better golf balls are going to spin much more too. I hit a TopFlite vs a TP5 and with the same launch and ball speed the spin was up almost 2k RPMs from 4100 to 5800. I hit the TP5 further because it hit the ideal launch windows.

Most people are fit for irons that spin too much. Most aren't playing your quality 15 stimp meter courses. We don't need to suck a ball back 15-20 feet. I launch my 7i 19* and with 5500 which is universally chastised as too low and I one hop and stop every green. Trust me, you can absolutely hit the ball a ridiculous distance with these numbers and still hit the ball straighter and hold a green provided you have a descent or landing angle of 45-50*.

I carried my 7i 150 last year at 33* with a heavier shaft. I now carry my 7i at 30* with a 10g lighter shaft 170. Both one hopped and stopped. And no I haven't added any extra wedges and no I dont have any distance gaps.

It's fun hitting 2 clubs less into a green now. Try it sometime. You might enjoy it ;)
Check my signature...I know about low spin distance irons!  Did not say they were not good or bad, just that people are not aware of the reason these irons are longer...like the OP.

Hope that the OP now realizes why he was hitting the iron longer.

WITB....GOLF EQUIPMENT MATTERS
Taylormade M3 460 8.5*, JDM Limited Edition 2016 Basileus AAA, 60X
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PXG 0311X Gen2, Extreme Dark, #2, #4 & #5 DI, UST Recoil Proto Custom Matte Black/White, 110/F5
PXG 0311P Gen2, Extreme Dark, 6 - P Irons, UST Recoil Proto Custom Matte Black/White, 110/F5
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#41 DeCuchi

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:49 PM

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostDeCuchi, on 12 September 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

But why keep the launch lower in the first place? If the 28* iron launches at (x) degrees and (x) rpm spin and (x) ball speed.  Why is that ball flight now too high and ineffective when you put a 5 on the bottom, but it's awesome when you put a 6 or a 7 on it?  The wind wouldn't effect it any differently. The ball would react the same when hitting the green.  Why? Because marketing works.  Launch windows people!  Launch windows.


Simple:  Distance iron is #7 iron with #7 iron trajectory and peak height, but #6 iron distance and spin.
IF it had the same height as a #6 iron then it would be just that.

In general peak heights are the same across a set of clubs. The apex just happens farther down range as you move through the set. So each iron is going to launch higher across the set. Launch windows are irrelevant, but they are selling like hot cakes.  Again, excellent marketing.
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#42 BirdieBob

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:51 PM

View PostDeCuchi, on 12 September 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostDeCuchi, on 12 September 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

But why keep the launch lower in the first place? If the 28* iron launches at (x) degrees and (x) rpm spin and (x) ball speed.  Why is that ball flight now too high and ineffective when you put a 5 on the bottom, but it's awesome when you put a 6 or a 7 on it?  The wind wouldn't effect it any differently. The ball would react the same when hitting the green.  Why? Because marketing works.  Launch windows people!  Launch windows.


Simple:  Distance iron is #7 iron with #7 iron trajectory and peak height, but #6 iron distance and spin.
IF it had the same height as a #6 iron then it would be just that.

In general peak heights are the same across a set of clubs. The apex just happens farther down range as you move through the set. So each iron is going to launch higher across the set. Launch windows are irrelevant, but they are selling like hot cakes.  Again, excellent marketing.
AND trajectory!

WITB....GOLF EQUIPMENT MATTERS
Taylormade M3 460 8.5*, JDM Limited Edition 2016 Basileus AAA, 60X
Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 13.5*, JDM Basileus Leggero 2, 75X

Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 18*, Matrix Ozik Black Tie 75M4, X
PXG 0311X Gen2, Extreme Dark, #2, #4 & #5 DI, UST Recoil Proto Custom Matte Black/White, 110/F5
PXG 0311P Gen2, Extreme Dark, 6 - P Irons, UST Recoil Proto Custom Matte Black/White, 110/F5
PXG  0311T 50* Milled Sugar Daddy Extreme Dark, KBS Custom Wedge Matte Black, 120S
PXG 0311T 55* & 60* Milled Darkness Wedges, KBS Custom Wedge Matte Black, 120S
PXG Limited Edition Bat Attack Darkness Putter #052, 35" 375g

PXG `18 Classic Cart Bag, Black
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#43 phatchrisrules

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 05:09 PM

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

View Postphatchrisrules, on 12 September 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these "Distance irons".  As long as the buyer is aware of the tradeoff with lower spin.
If lower spin is not an issue then go for them.  BUT the manufactures do not list "lower spin" or talk about lower spin.  What they talk about is DISTANCE.

If one needs more spin like a PGA TOUR PRO then a distance iron is not your cup of tea.

Get what works and know what you're getting!

Best,
BB

But they aren't always lower spinning. I've seen some people spin newer clubs up to 1500 RPMs more and have a better descent angle than they do with their old technology clubs from even 5 years ago with weaker lofts.

A low CG = more launch. Lower loft is used to keep the ball flight respectable in terms of being able to cut through the wind. Most golf shots don't actually fly higher or lower than anything else. I hit my 6i at 30y peak height and my driver at 31-33y peak height depending on the loft of the club. It just looks like I hit a 6i higher because it is closer to us than the driver is when it achieves its apex.

Also, better golf balls are going to spin much more too. I hit a TopFlite vs a TP5 and with the same launch and ball speed the spin was up almost 2k RPMs from 4100 to 5800. I hit the TP5 further because it hit the ideal launch windows.

Most people are fit for irons that spin too much. Most aren't playing your quality 15 stimp meter courses. We don't need to suck a ball back 15-20 feet. I launch my 7i 19* and with 5500 which is universally chastised as too low and I one hop and stop every green. Trust me, you can absolutely hit the ball a ridiculous distance with these numbers and still hit the ball straighter and hold a green provided you have a descent or landing angle of 45-50*.

I carried my 7i 150 last year at 33* with a heavier shaft. I now carry my 7i at 30* with a 10g lighter shaft 170. Both one hopped and stopped. And no I haven't added any extra wedges and no I dont have any distance gaps.

It's fun hitting 2 clubs less into a green now. Try it sometime. You might enjoy it ;)
Check my signature...I know about low spin distance irons!  Did not say they were not good or bad, just that people are not aware of the reason these irons are longer...like the OP.

Hope that the OP now realizes why he was hitting the iron longer.

My bad.  Posted on mobile so I couldn't see signatures.  You've definitely got some ball speed irons.  Rock on, enjoy the club, I sure am.
Callaway Rogue SZ 9* - Diamana BF 60
Callaway Rogue SZ 13.5* - Fubuki V-Series 70
Callaway Rogue 17* - Diamana Thump 85
Ping G700 4 - Fujikura Atmos Black 95
Ping G700 5 - Accra 105CWT "Master's Green"
Ping i500 6-PW - Accra 105CWT "Master's Green" (Most likely as it looks awesome)
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 50/SS, 54/ES, 58/ES - Modus 105 Wedge Master's Green
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#44 phatchrisrules

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 05:41 PM

View PostNight train, on 12 September 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

So my new 7 iron flies as high as my old 7 iron but spins like my old 6 iron and goes the same distance as my old six iron.

.......I'm hitting it higher and farther with a shorter club. I don't need to worry about my six holding the green, because it's now a seven iron shot.

My new 170 yard club is simply easier to hit.

Exactly my argument I've been saying for MONTHS on another golf forum.  Some people just don't listen and I get the same answer back "a driver is for distance and an iron is for control only, it shouldn't go far."  I explained multiple times that if I am hitting a shorter iron, even at the same loft, my chances of hitting it closer to the hole increase substantially with each consecutive shorter club I have in my hand.  In my case, I am now hitting roughly a soft 8i or normal 9i instead of hitting a full bore 7i I am going to get it closer to the hole more often, especially with keeping the spin the same or increasing it.  The argument then begins again when I get "why would I want to hit it further?" and I scream into my hands.
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Callaway Rogue 17* - Diamana Thump 85
Ping G700 4 - Fujikura Atmos Black 95
Ping G700 5 - Accra 105CWT "Master's Green"
Ping i500 6-PW - Accra 105CWT "Master's Green" (Most likely as it looks awesome)
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 50/SS, 54/ES, 58/ES - Modus 105 Wedge Master's Green
Bettinardi Inovai 3.0 Centre Shaft

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#45 MtlJeff

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 05:50 PM

I've been fortunate to attend many different demo days and hit most of the popular irons on the market. Both SGI's and GI, blades and micro cavities....everything. And always with my trusty S300.

I always check lofts of the clubs online before hitting though it's not always fair since some of the demo clubs are bent.

But i have not noticed a major difference in iron distance provided lofts are similar. Even when comparing GI's to blades, though the comparisons are hard, sometimes you have to hit a 6 vs a 7 and choke down etc to get a good comparison. I'd believe 5-6 yards is possible with the same setup and length

I think the "distance" iron stuff providing inconsistent yardages is pure nonsense. The amount of times i have hit 15-20 straight 6 irons into a 5 yard box with a GI club on a reputable LM is far too many for me to think there is any truth to this

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#46 Noodler

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:25 PM

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these "Distance irons".  As long as the buyer is aware of the tradeoff with lower spin.
If lower spin is not an issue then go for them.  BUT the manufactures do not list "lower spin" or talk about lower spin.  What they talk about is DISTANCE.

If one needs more spin like a PGA TOUR PRO then a distance iron is not your cup of tea.

Get what works and know what you're getting!

Best,
BB

And there's the rub, many golfers are not aware of the trade-off with spin when selecting or being fit for their irons.

There's a major difference in the trajectory profile (or shape) of the ball flight when hit with a good MB/CB versus GI/SGI iron.  The MB/CB irons typically provide a more boring trajectory that hits peak height later in the flight and not only has more backspin, but also a steeper descent angle.  The GI/SGI produces a more parabolic ball flight with lower backspin and a shallower descent angle.  Sure it's going further, but it's also harder to hold the green.  It's not just "hitting" the green that counts, it's holding the green that is needed.

There was a recent article on GolfWRX about this often overlooked fitting parameter: descent angle.

I prefer to play "darts" on my approach shots and do not want to be "penalized" on a great shot that fails to hold the green.

Edited by Noodler, 12 September 2017 - 06:26 PM.


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#47 mosesgolf

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:29 PM

I have a backup set of Ping G30's and had to go 5-U (Gap Wedge).  Lofts are jacked up on the Pings.  At the end of the day if you need a 150 yard club that's what you go with.  It doesn't matter if it's a Ping 9 iron or an blade 8 iron.
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#48 Noodler

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:37 PM

View Postmosesgolf, on 12 September 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

I have a backup set of Ping G30's and had to go 5-U (Gap Wedge).  Lofts are jacked up on the Pings.  At the end of the day if you need a 150 yard club that's what you go with.  It doesn't matter if it's a Ping 9 iron or an blade 8 iron.

Actually it does matter.  All distance is not equal.  How that distance is achieved absolutely impacts the shot.

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#49 BirdieBob

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:52 PM

Lets say I have a shot into an elevated, firm green and it is downwind.
Distance is 180.
I have two irons...a high spin 7i and a low spin distance 8i.
The 7i goes about 170  and the 8i will also go 170.
The low spin distance 8i will launch higher but with less spin than the 7i but goes just as far....yes it will spin less than a mb blade high spin iron...about 500 rpm less.
With the wind they both hit near the same place on the green.
Q.  Which shot will hold the green the best?

Any guesses..... ;)

Most will say the 7i since it has more spin....BUT that is somewhat negated by the higher launch/peak height of the 8i with less spin.

Well?

Yes, not so simple but just something to think about.


Which iron should I use?

Edited by BirdieBob, 12 September 2017 - 06:59 PM.

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#50 Nessism

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:57 PM

A well struck shot with a GI club will stop just fine on the green.  People saying otherwise must not have ever tried them.

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#51 Pigems

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:02 PM

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

Lets say I have a shot into an elevated, firm green and it is downwind.
Distance is 180.
I have two irons...a high spin 7i and a low spin distance 8i.
The 7i goes about 170  and the 8i will also go 170.
The low spin distance 8i will launch higher but with less spin than the 7i but goes just as far....yes it will spin less than a mb blade high spin iron...about 500 rpm less.
With the wind they both hit near the same place on the green.
Q.  Which shot will hold the green the best?

Any guesses..... ;)

Most will say the 7i since it has more spin....BUT that is somewhat negated by the higher launch/peak height of the 8i with less spin.

Well?

Yes, not so simple but just something to think about.


Which iron should I use?

I'll take the higher spinning 7i with the steeper decent angle all day long.
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#52 BirdieBob

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:05 PM

View PostPigems, on 12 September 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

Lets say I have a shot into an elevated, firm green and it is downwind.
Distance is 180.
I have two irons...a high spin 7i and a low spin distance 8i.
The 7i goes about 170  and the 8i will also go 170.
The low spin distance 8i will launch higher but with less spin than the 7i but goes just as far....yes it will spin less than a mb blade high spin iron...about 500 rpm less.
With the wind they both hit near the same place on the green.
Q.  Which shot will hold the green the best?

Any guesses..... ;)

Most will say the 7i since it has more spin....BUT that is somewhat negated by the higher launch/peak height of the 8i with less spin.

Well?

Yes, not so simple but just something to think about.


Which iron should I use?

I'll take the higher spinning 7i with the steeper decent angle all day long.
Wont the 8i have a higher decent angle?...since it launches higher and has a higher peak height?

Maybe you are saying the slightly higher spin of the 7i will keep the ball in the air longer and allow it to drop out of the sky at a higher decent angle...hum.

Edited by BirdieBob, 12 September 2017 - 07:12 PM.

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#53 Pigems

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:15 PM

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

View PostPigems, on 12 September 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

Lets say I have a shot into an elevated, firm green and it is downwind.
Distance is 180.
I have two irons...a high spin 7i and a low spin distance 8i.
The 7i goes about 170  and the 8i will also go 170.
The low spin distance 8i will launch higher but with less spin than the 7i but goes just as far....yes it will spin less than a mb blade high spin iron...about 500 rpm less.
With the wind they both hit near the same place on the green.
Q.  Which shot will hold the green the best?

Any guesses..... ;)

Most will say the 7i since it has more spin....BUT that is somewhat negated by the higher launch/peak height of the 8i with less spin.

Well?

Yes, not so simple but just something to think about.


Which iron should I use?

I'll take the higher spinning 7i with the steeper decent angle all day long.
Wont the 8i have a higher decent angle?...since it launches higher and has a higher peak height?

Maybe you are saying the slightly higher spin of the 7i will keep the ball in the air longer and allow it to drop out of the sky at a higher decent angle...hum.

This is why I choose the 7i

View PostNoodler, on 12 September 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

And there's the rub, many golfers are not aware of the trade-off with spin when selecting or being fit for their irons.

There's a major difference in the trajectory profile (or shape) of the ball flight when hit with a good MB/CB versus GI/SGI iron.  The MB/CB irons typically provide a more boring trajectory that hits peak height later in the flight and not only has more backspin, but also a steeper descent angle.  The GI/SGI produces a more parabolic ball flight with lower backspin and a shallower descent angle.  Sure it's going further, but it's also harder to hold the green.  It's not just "hitting" the green that counts, it's holding the green that is needed.

There was a recent article on GolfWRX about this often overlooked fitting parameter: descent angle.

I prefer to play "darts" on my approach shots and do not want to be "penalized" on a great shot that fails to hold the green.

Edited by Pigems, 12 September 2017 - 07:19 PM.

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#54 elwhippy

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:15 PM

AP2s are not known for their long hitting, much more a precision club. Not really fair comparing them to a pure distance iron.

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#55 nbg352

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:20 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 12 September 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

A lot less spin............Knuckleballs!!!

:rofl:


Lower loft with lower COG = low spin, normal launch and more distance due to less spin.

Do you hear the manufacturers claiming `less spin' distance irons!  ... No, you hear `our longest irons yet'; `a bag full of drivers', etc.

No free lunch...if you want more distance, you will get less spin.
IF you play on Stimp 5 greens...get'em.

I hit my Ping G irons enough higher than previous types of irons that the 10% or so less spin does not seem to result in any lack of green-holding ability. Playing a "distance" ball will certainly result in shots bouncing over greens but a ProV1x struck with a spring-face 7-iron is going to hold just fine even on my course's very firm-and-fast Tif-Eagle greens.

P.S. And I don't think we're talking a "lot" less spin. Probably a couple hundred rpms or so. Be careful of the "false equivalence" trap. Just because a club is better in one way than some other club is does not necessarily follow is worse in some other way. Some things are just better, with no trade-off required. Compare a ProV1 to a Titleist Tour Balata. The modern ball is better is every possible way, there's no "You can't have more X without having less Y" involved.
Thank God someone here knows the truth. OP, GI and SGI clubs generally fly as high or higher than players clubs. So, even though they produce slightly less spin, they come out of the sky on a steeper angle and stop quickly. They do not produce a hot shot on one swing and then a soft shot the next swing. They are as reliable distance wise as any clubs the naysayers here might use as an example to the contrary.
Thanks North Butte for bucking this thread's trend towards ill informed info.

Edited by nbg352, 12 September 2017 - 07:23 PM.

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#56 Night train

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:28 PM

I think they are more reliable distance wise..........because most people are more likely to make a solid strike with them.

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#57 Noodler

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:31 PM

Backspin > Descent Angle when it comes to stopping power.

You see this on TrackMan, FlightScope, and Foresight.  You also see it every week on the PGA tour (or if you play with a better golfer) with lower flying shots that check and stop immediately (or back up a few feet).  Then you have the not-so-good golfer hitting a moon ball with little spin that rolls out 5 yards.

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#58 nbg352

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:45 PM

View PostNoodler, on 12 September 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

Backspin > Descent Angle when it comes to stopping power.

You see this on TrackMan, FlightScope, and Foresight.  You also see it every week on the PGA tour (or if you play with a better golfer) with lower flying shots that check and stop immediately (or back up a few feet).  Then you have the not-so-good golfer hitting a moon ball with little spin that rolls out 5 yards.
Maybe on your Flightscope, but on mine, SGI and GI 6 irons produce approximately 6000 rpm of spin which is the same as my Hogan Apex 5 iron ( same loft and length ) or my MP 30 6 iron ( bent 3* strong and 1/2" over standard ).
What you are suggesting is, by and large, simply not true.
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#59 Noodler

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:28 PM

View Postnbg352, on 12 September 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostNoodler, on 12 September 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

Backspin > Descent Angle when it comes to stopping power.

You see this on TrackMan, FlightScope, and Foresight.  You also see it every week on the PGA tour (or if you play with a better golfer) with lower flying shots that check and stop immediately (or back up a few feet).  Then you have the not-so-good golfer hitting a moon ball with little spin that rolls out 5 yards.
Maybe on your Flightscope, but on mine, SGI and GI 6 irons produce approximately 6000 rpm of spin which is the same as my Hogan Apex 5 iron ( same loft and length ) or my MP 30 6 iron ( bent 3* strong and 1/2" over standard ).
What you are suggesting is, by and large, simply not true.

Please don't misinterpret what I'm stating (or assume more than I'm saying).  You are correct that effective loft provides the vast majority of influence over the resulting backspin amount.  So, yes, if the lofts are equal you're not going to see that much of a difference for equivalent strikes.  The point here is that loft-jacking is "playing a game" by deceiving the consumer without acknowledging what's really happening with spin in order to achieve the distance increases.

Outside of that, there are differences in the design, such as the CoG vertical and horizontal placement, between typical MB/CB and GI/SGI irons that do affect ball flight.  More backspin and a steeper descent angle result in higher stopping power; no arguing that.  The real point here is that golfers shouldn't succumb to "distance greed" when it comes to iron selection because having sufficient backspin is critical for the manner in which irons are used.

Edited by Noodler, 12 September 2017 - 09:29 PM.


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#60 OrangeGravy

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:55 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 12 September 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostBirdieBob, on 12 September 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

A lot less spin............Knuckleballs!!!

:rofl:


Lower loft with lower COG = low spin, normal launch and more distance due to less spin.

Do you hear the manufacturers claiming `less spin' distance irons!  ... No, you hear `our longest irons yet'; `a bag full of drivers', etc.

No free lunch...if you want more distance, you will get less spin.
IF you play on Stimp 5 greens...get'em.

I hit my Ping G irons enough higher than previous types of irons that the 10% or so less spin does not seem to result in any lack of green-holding ability. Playing a "distance" ball will certainly result in shots bouncing over greens but a ProV1x struck with a spring-face 7-iron is going to hold just fine even on my course's very firm-and-fast Tif-Eagle greens.

P.S. And I don't think we're talking a "lot" less spin. Probably a couple hundred rpms or so. Be careful of the "false equivalence" trap. Just because a club is better in one way than some other club is does not necessarily follow is worse in some other way. Some things are just better, with no trade-off required. Compare a ProV1 to a Titleist Tour Balata. The modern ball is better is every possible way, there's no "You can't have more X without having less Y" involved.

I'd play Balatas right now over ProV if I could get them brand new

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