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Did your newly fitted custom club replace your gamer?


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#1 Cpm881

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:47 AM

Anyone else get fitted for a new club only to stick with their old gamer and shelve the expensive custom club?

I've been fitted a few times, proper outdoor fittings w/ trackman and reputable fitter. Each time, we found "THE CLUB" - couldn't miss it if I tried during fitting. Fast forward to receiving the custom club, and it's different animal. For example, did a driver fitting and had great launch/trajectory during fitting, but I'm hitting low line drives with the custom ordered club.

I'm going to give new custom club a chance, but right now it's losing out to my "spinny, too high launching" gamer.

Edited by Cpm881, 07 September 2017 - 10:45 AM.

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#2 Lancj1

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:01 AM

I'm convinced Jo Average can safely buy any set of clubs off the shelf in regular flex and standard loft, lie, grip and play happily ever after.
I'm convinced most of us are Jo Average.
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#3 FlyingLaw1

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:13 AM

View PostLancj1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm convinced Jo Average can safely buy any set of clubs off the shelf in regular flex and standard loft, lie, grip and play happily ever after.
I'm convinced most of us are Jo Average.

For over 10 years I worked for a Top 100 teaching pro. This is almost exactly what he said. He thinks that if you have clubs that aren't "fit for you" then over time a golfer will get used to them. I.E. enough swings with any club and the golfer will adjust. Is he right? I think so. Does that mean custom fitting is worthless? Nope.

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#4 dbrokee

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:18 AM

I was fitted for the Callaway Apex irons and Mizuno T7 wedges with Project X 6.0 shafts with a total cost of replacement of my current irons at $2.4K. All of this would've added 12 yards of carry and 7 yards of total distance over my current gamers. So I settled with switching out the shafts, adjusting the clubhead weight, and matching the lofts to what I was fitted for.

All said and done I ended up with 2 yards less of carry distance and 1 yard less total distance based on Trackman data for 1/3 of the cost. Aka I got my gamers 10 more yards of carry, 6 more yards of total distance, much tighter dispersion, and better ball flight.

edit: words

Edited by dbrokee, 07 September 2017 - 10:19 AM.

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#5 North Butte

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:58 PM

View PostFlyingLaw1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

View PostLancj1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm convinced Jo Average can safely buy any set of clubs off the shelf in regular flex and standard loft, lie, grip and play happily ever after.
I'm convinced most of us are Jo Average.

For over 10 years I worked for a Top 100 teaching pro. This is almost exactly what he said. He thinks that if you have clubs that aren't "fit for you" then over time a golfer will get used to them. I.E. enough swings with any club and the golfer will adjust. Is he right? I think so. Does that mean custom fitting is worthless? Nope.

Worthless if done poorly (i.e. if the fitting is just a sales job for selling you a high-$$$ shaft upgrade and "blueprinting").

If done well, it has value. But in the overall scheme of things the value will be modest and perhaps not even enough to notice an effect on your scoring.

The exception would if your previous, not "custom fitted" club was just totally unsuited to your body and your swing. But that sort of mis-fit should be something a competent teaching pro could see after watching you hit a few shots. It doesn't take three hours of Trackman time to find clubs somewhere in the general range of suitability.

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#6 hardcaliber

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:42 PM

View PostNorth Butte, on 07 September 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

View PostFlyingLaw1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

View PostLancj1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm convinced Jo Average can safely buy any set of clubs off the shelf in regular flex and standard loft, lie, grip and play happily ever after.
I'm convinced most of us are Jo Average.

For over 10 years I worked for a Top 100 teaching pro. This is almost exactly what he said. He thinks that if you have clubs that aren't "fit for you" then over time a golfer will get used to them. I.E. enough swings with any club and the golfer will adjust. Is he right? I think so. Does that mean custom fitting is worthless? Nope.

Worthless if done poorly (i.e. if the fitting is just a sales job for selling you a high-$$$ shaft upgrade and "blueprinting").

If done well, it has value. But in the overall scheme of things the value will be modest and perhaps not even enough to notice an effect on your scoring.

The exception would if your previous, not "custom fitted" club was just totally unsuited to your body and your swing. But that sort of mis-fit should be something a competent teaching pro could see after watching you hit a few shots. It doesn't take three hours of Trackman time to find clubs somewhere in the general range of suitability.

I'm convinced that way too many fittings out there are just overpriced sell jobs.  I would be willing to pay double the club champion rate if there was a fitter out there that was completely out of the retail side of the business, just focused on fittings and recommendation and sent you on your happy way to buy stuff from BST or Ebay or whatever else.  Not sure about the exact numbers, but  most "fitters" probably make well over 50% of their profits from the selling side of the equation rather than fitting side?  Hard to be objective that way.

I think that there is a huge difference between the way a given club interacts with your personal swing idiosyncrasies during a round vs. hitting in a bay or even on an outdoor range.  I don't think any software or professional expertise can compensate for the human factor that takes over during real golf. For example, I might be a little amped stepping up to a tight  tee shot and all of a sudden that R flex shaft will feel a little noodly on my practice swings even though it gave me better numbers than the stiff flex during the fitting.  Not saying that fitters don't play an important role.  Just saying that there is an important role for old fashioned trial and error and that we also shouldn't forget to trust our own feel over launch monitor numbers sometimes.

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#7 Cpm881

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:12 PM

So, had a few more rounds and practice with new custom driver. Doing A/B comparison with gamer, realized swing weight with new club was a good bit heavier. Put a little more effort into swings with new club w/ heavier swing weight and can now hit it similar to what I was seeing in my fitting. I might toy with swing-weight, but dispersion is pretty good right now.

My original complaint about fittings/expensive custom clubs was prob unfair. This is more indian than the arrow issue. Swing weight is a funny thing, really threw me off.

Edited by Cpm881, 11 September 2017 - 03:16 PM.

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#8 phatchrisrules

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 05:24 PM

View Posthardcaliber, on 07 September 2017 - 09:42 PM, said:

View PostNorth Butte, on 07 September 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

View PostFlyingLaw1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

View PostLancj1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm convinced Jo Average can safely buy any set of clubs off the shelf in regular flex and standard loft, lie, grip and play happily ever after.
I'm convinced most of us are Jo Average.

For over 10 years I worked for a Top 100 teaching pro. This is almost exactly what he said. He thinks that if you have clubs that aren't "fit for you" then over time a golfer will get used to them. I.E. enough swings with any club and the golfer will adjust. Is he right? I think so. Does that mean custom fitting is worthless? Nope.

Worthless if done poorly (i.e. if the fitting is just a sales job for selling you a high-$$$ shaft upgrade and "blueprinting").

If done well, it has value. But in the overall scheme of things the value will be modest and perhaps not even enough to notice an effect on your scoring.

The exception would if your previous, not "custom fitted" club was just totally unsuited to your body and your swing. But that sort of mis-fit should be something a competent teaching pro could see after watching you hit a few shots. It doesn't take three hours of Trackman time to find clubs somewhere in the general range of suitability.

I'm convinced that way too many fittings out there are just overpriced sell jobs.  I would be willing to pay double the club champion rate if there was a fitter out there that was completely out of the retail side of the business, just focused on fittings and recommendation and sent you on your happy way to buy stuff from BST or Ebay or whatever else.  Not sure about the exact numbers, but  most "fitters" probably make well over 50% of their profits from the selling side of the equation rather than fitting side?  Hard to be objective that way.


I do agree that many fittings are overpriced sell jobs.  I had a guy in today that got fit for an Epic SZ with a HZRDUS Yellow from a place like Cool Clubs and Club Champion.  The price tag was $1100 CAD + tax.  He told me he was a little annoyed at the fitter after because if he would have known that it was a $400 shaft upcharge he would have told him not to bother.  The fitter responded that there was no other shaft and it was the best ever for him and not to bother.  So he waltzs into my store, a big box store, and he walked out with a SZ with Rogue Max 65 Stiff.  He was getting 9* of launch and averaging 3300 spin with the driver set to 12.5* with the weight in the back.  We tried everything and this was the only driver that got him half way optimal so hold off on the blasting ;)

As for your idea about a complete fitter, free of pressure, that is technically every fitter.  No fitter should push a hard sell.  If the price is right and the performance is there a club will sell itself. That is why it is so important to have an open line of communication with your customer.  No person is going to sink $20,000 into a Trackman or GCQuad or GC2 with HMT, have a massive assortment of stock and exotic shafts to try, in all the flexes, in different weights and lengths, and get every single available head without having an account.  If they didn't, they would have to pay out of pocket for each head and each shaft.  What person in their right mind is going to do that?  Even if they did pay out of pocket for every head, which cost roughly $13,500 just for every available driver head + the cost of all the shafts + all the iron heads and wedges + all the shafts.  I can go on.  But that's roughly another $50-60k in product.  Even if they charged $300 for every fitting and they could feasibly do 6 fittings a day (9-6 every day), they would have to recoup something like close to $100k in just fittings alone.  That's not including new shafts and new clubs that get introduced every year.  That is roughly 55 days of completely booked days to just break even.  No days off.  Not counting golf balls.  Not counting rented range time/mats/warehouse rent.  

It's not feasible.  Just go into a fitting and be honest with your fitter about your ideal price point and what your goal is.  It's not hard to be honest with someone.  If you come in and say "fit me for the best possible combination for $400" that is a lot better than just keeping mum and having a heart attack when your bill is $900+ at the end.  Communication and effective fittings are a two way street.
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#9 Philfil

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 05:42 PM

View PostCpm881, on 11 September 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

So, had a few more rounds and practice with new custom driver. Doing A/B comparison with gamer, realized swing weight with new club was a good bit heavier. Put a little more effort into swings with new club w/ heavier swing weight and can now hit it similar to what I was seeing in my fitting. I might toy with swing-weight, but dispersion is pretty good right now.

My original complaint about fittings/expensive custom clubs was prob unfair. This is more indian than the arrow issue. Swing weight is a funny thing, really threw me off.

Is it possible for you to contact your fitter?  If I were him, I'd bring you back out for a re-fit - and pull up your data from your first fitting.  At that point we'd be able to compare the data with what you were doing that day, to what you do now.  Also, as a test - rebuild the same club that you were originally fitted with, to compare numbers even more.  It could have been a "bad build" by himself, his company, the vendor - where ever it came from.  

I'd try reaching out - hopefully they are more focused on the customer than the sale.  Good luck!

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#10 b_f_c_99

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 10:05 PM

On a whim, and partially as a gag I bought a Top Flite 5 wood from dicks with a regular shaft,  cost 25 bucks   Turns out to be as good as fairway wood as I have ever hit.  I have a buddy that has x stiffs in some mizuno mp69's.  I have Nippon 110 stiffs in my mp4's.  And have a set of mo59s with regulars.  I hit all of them exactly the same except the mp4s are 2 degrees flat so the set up better to my eye.


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#11 phatchrisrules

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:01 AM

View Postb_f_c_99, on 11 September 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:

On a whim, and partially as a gag I bought a Top Flite 5 wood from dicks with a regular shaft,  cost 25 bucks   Turns out to be as good as fairway wood as I have ever hit.  I have a buddy that has x stiffs in some mizuno mp69's.  I have Nippon 110 stiffs in my mp4's.  And have a set of mo59s with regulars.  I hit all of them exactly the same except the mp4s are 2 degrees flat so the set up better to my eye.

I think more and more people are realizing that shafts matter very little now.  Before it made a huge difference because the variance in the quality of them in stock vs. aftermarket was substantial.  Now there isn't really such a thing as a "stock" shaft anymore as they are typically just aftermarket shafts period or they are very moderately tweaked aftermarket shafts to hit a specific weight and torque profile that the average player finds agreeable.  Head is paramount in a fitting followed very closely by the proper fit of length and lie to get desired shot shape followed very distantly in third by shaft weight and flex.  Bend profile means nothing really.  There is only a difference of something like 2 inches between a "low" and a "high" launch shaft in terms of the bend profile locale.
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#12 apprenti23

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:14 AM

^ couldn't be further from the truth

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#13 wkuo3

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:25 AM

Human........

A few of us are blessed with above average eye hand coordination and sense of feel than the rest , can adjust to any golf clubs with a few practice swing.
But for the mass mortal of us, a change in golf equipment needs a little time with practice to grow into the change.  

I ask a guy whom came back complaining about his new fitted golf club  ( buyer's remorse ? ) - how many times had he taken the club out to the driving range or the golf course ?    A few -  he said....
I then asked how long did he owned the original golf club..... he said, 6 years.  So he was still remembering how the old golf club "supposed to be " and not the better fitted golf club he has.  

Well, give it a chance if the fitting was properly done.  It's not like take off the dirty cloth and put on the new cloth and be fine with it.   Seeking instant gratification ...... is the modern illness of the society.   We have no patience for anything.

Same thing with taking a golf lesson, golfers expecting over night improvement from taking a golf lesson, often times many will revert back to the "old ways" simply because they were comfortable doing it the wrong way...... the struggle continued !

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#14 Galiant50

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:20 AM

bump

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#15 phatchrisrules

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 12:30 PM

View Postapprenti23, on 12 September 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

^ couldn't be further from the truth

Wrong.  Go and hit some shots on a LM with a perfectly fit driver or iron in terms of loft and CG and take note of how much influence a shaft actually has on launch and spin.  It's not as much as you think.  I'm not doubting that certain shafts can help make a head shine brighter than it already does, I do doubt completely that the shaft is the engine of the club head and makes any big difference.  I see it day in and day out with my fittings.  I don't care what shaft I put in their hands after we have the perfect head, the end result is rarely significantly different from the baseline stock shaft.

Edited by phatchrisrules, 12 September 2017 - 12:32 PM.

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#16 Hambone1

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 05:43 PM

View Postphatchrisrules, on 12 September 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

View Postapprenti23, on 12 September 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

^ couldn't be further from the truth

Wrong.  Go and hit some shots on a LM with a perfectly fit driver or iron in terms of loft and CG and take note of how much influence a shaft actually has on launch and spin.  It's not as much as you think.  I'm not doubting that certain shafts can help make a head shine brighter than it already does, I do doubt completely that the shaft is the engine of the club head and makes any big difference.  I see it day in and day out with my fittings.  I don't care what shaft I put in their hands after we have the perfect head, the end result is rarely significantly different from the baseline stock shaft.

That is patently false. An incorrect shaft weight and/or bend profile will not overcome the "perfect" head.
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#17 phatchrisrules

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:12 PM

View PostHambone1, on 12 September 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

View Postphatchrisrules, on 12 September 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

View Postapprenti23, on 12 September 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

^ couldn't be further from the truth

Wrong.  Go and hit some shots on a LM with a perfectly fit driver or iron in terms of loft and CG and take note of how much influence a shaft actually has on launch and spin.  It's not as much as you think.  I'm not doubting that certain shafts can help make a head shine brighter than it already does, I do doubt completely that the shaft is the engine of the club head and makes any big difference.  I see it day in and day out with my fittings.  I don't care what shaft I put in their hands after we have the perfect head, the end result is rarely significantly different from the baseline stock shaft.

That is patently false. An incorrect shaft weight and/or bend profile will not overcome the "perfect" head.

Shaft weight has absolutely nothing to do with launch and spin, only direction. Bend profile MIGHT change launch and spin, but chances are it won't make a significant difference. You and I talked back and forth in another thread where I hit a 70g senior flex vs a 115g stiff and a 130g x flex in the same head and showed there as 24 RPMs of spin difference and 0.2* change in launch. This was all in the same head.

I don't know how else I can put it. I've shown you and others the data from me and others. Wishon has posted many articles saying it, along with Stuart G and others have said it.  I urge you, go grab your driver and try it with your preferred shaft and then grab a same weight shaft with similar torque but vastly different bend profiles and look closely at the launch and spin. I can almost guarantee it there won't be a significant change in your total carry or overall numbers. At the end of the day shaft isn't nearly as important as everyone makes it out to be.

Edited by phatchrisrules, 12 September 2017 - 08:13 PM.

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#18 Hambone1

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:00 PM

View Postphatchrisrules, on 12 September 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

View PostHambone1, on 12 September 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

View Postphatchrisrules, on 12 September 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

View Postapprenti23, on 12 September 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

^ couldn't be further from the truth

Wrong.  Go and hit some shots on a LM with a perfectly fit driver or iron in terms of loft and CG and take note of how much influence a shaft actually has on launch and spin.  It's not as much as you think.  I'm not doubting that certain shafts can help make a head shine brighter than it already does, I do doubt completely that the shaft is the engine of the club head and makes any big difference.  I see it day in and day out with my fittings.  I don't care what shaft I put in their hands after we have the perfect head, the end result is rarely significantly different from the baseline stock shaft.

That is patently false. An incorrect shaft weight and/or bend profile will not overcome the "perfect" head.

Shaft weight has absolutely nothing to do with launch and spin, only direction. Bend profile MIGHT change launch and spin, but chances are it won't make a significant difference. You and I talked back and forth in another thread where I hit a 70g senior flex vs a 115g stiff and a 130g x flex in the same head and showed there as 24 RPMs of spin difference and 0.2* change in launch. This was all in the same head.

I don't know how else I can put it. I've shown you and others the data from me and others. Wishon has posted many articles saying it, along with Stuart G and others have said it.  I urge you, go grab your driver and try it with your preferred shaft and then grab a same weight shaft with similar torque but vastly different bend profiles and look closely at the launch and spin. I can almost guarantee it there won't be a significant change in your total carry or overall numbers. At the end of the day shaft isn't nearly as important as everyone makes it out to be.

I'll just leave this right here, quoting the best:

http://www.golfwrx.c...hould-you-play/

Contact, spin loft, and speed dictate launch angle and spin rate. Shaft weight correctly allows a player to optimize those factors. Please, read the experts you quote my friend.
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#19 hardcaliber

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:24 PM

View Postphatchrisrules, on 11 September 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

View Posthardcaliber, on 07 September 2017 - 09:42 PM, said:

View PostNorth Butte, on 07 September 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

View PostFlyingLaw1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

View PostLancj1, on 07 September 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm convinced Jo Average can safely buy any set of clubs off the shelf in regular flex and standard loft, lie, grip and play happily ever after.
I'm convinced most of us are Jo Average.

For over 10 years I worked for a Top 100 teaching pro. This is almost exactly what he said. He thinks that if you have clubs that aren't "fit for you" then over time a golfer will get used to them. I.E. enough swings with any club and the golfer will adjust. Is he right? I think so. Does that mean custom fitting is worthless? Nope.

Worthless if done poorly (i.e. if the fitting is just a sales job for selling you a high-$$$ shaft upgrade and "blueprinting").

If done well, it has value. But in the overall scheme of things the value will be modest and perhaps not even enough to notice an effect on your scoring.

The exception would if your previous, not "custom fitted" club was just totally unsuited to your body and your swing. But that sort of mis-fit should be something a competent teaching pro could see after watching you hit a few shots. It doesn't take three hours of Trackman time to find clubs somewhere in the general range of suitability.

I'm convinced that way too many fittings out there are just overpriced sell jobs.  I would be willing to pay double the club champion rate if there was a fitter out there that was completely out of the retail side of the business, just focused on fittings and recommendation and sent you on your happy way to buy stuff from BST or Ebay or whatever else.  Not sure about the exact numbers, but  most "fitters" probably make well over 50% of their profits from the selling side of the equation rather than fitting side?  Hard to be objective that way.


I do agree that many fittings are overpriced sell jobs.  I had a guy in today that got fit for an Epic SZ with a HZRDUS Yellow from a place like Cool Clubs and Club Champion.  The price tag was $1100 CAD + tax.  He told me he was a little annoyed at the fitter after because if he would have known that it was a $400 shaft upcharge he would have told him not to bother.  The fitter responded that there was no other shaft and it was the best ever for him and not to bother.  So he waltzs into my store, a big box store, and he walked out with a SZ with Rogue Max 65 Stiff.  He was getting 9* of launch and averaging 3300 spin with the driver set to 12.5* with the weight in the back.  We tried everything and this was the only driver that got him half way optimal so hold off on the blasting ;)

As for your idea about a complete fitter, free of pressure, that is technically every fitter.  No fitter should push a hard sell.  If the price is right and the performance is there a club will sell itself. That is why it is so important to have an open line of communication with your customer.  No person is going to sink $20,000 into a Trackman or GCQuad or GC2 with HMT, have a massive assortment of stock and exotic shafts to try, in all the flexes, in different weights and lengths, and get every single available head without having an account.  If they didn't, they would have to pay out of pocket for each head and each shaft.  What person in their right mind is going to do that?  Even if they did pay out of pocket for every head, which cost roughly $13,500 just for every available driver head + the cost of all the shafts + all the iron heads and wedges + all the shafts.  I can go on.  But that's roughly another $50-60k in product.  Even if they charged $300 for every fitting and they could feasibly do 6 fittings a day (9-6 every day), they would have to recoup something like close to $100k in just fittings alone.  That's not including new shafts and new clubs that get introduced every year.  That is roughly 55 days of completely booked days to just break even.  No days off.  Not counting golf balls.  Not counting rented range time/mats/warehouse rent.  

It's not feasible.  Just go into a fitting and be honest with your fitter about your ideal price point and what your goal is.  It's not hard to be honest with someone.  If you come in and say "fit me for the best possible combination for $400" that is a lot better than just keeping mum and having a heart attack when your bill is $900+ at the end.  Communication and effective fittings are a two way street.

I appreciate all your points.  I don't have any insider experience with the industry, so I don't necessarily know all the numbers involved and what a fitter needs to do to to turn a profit.

Truth be told I'm not really that hung up on the particular cost of the equipment.  My concern is mostly the fact that the whole system is such a conflict of interest that it seems hard to trust it.  I know that there are many great people out there doing fittings who will try to be as honest as possible.  At the end of the day however, it still comes down to moving product.

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#20 phatchrisrules

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:37 AM

View PostHambone1, on 12 September 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

View Postphatchrisrules, on 12 September 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

View PostHambone1, on 12 September 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

View Postphatchrisrules, on 12 September 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

View Postapprenti23, on 12 September 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

^ couldn't be further from the truth

Wrong.  Go and hit some shots on a LM with a perfectly fit driver or iron in terms of loft and CG and take note of how much influence a shaft actually has on launch and spin.  It's not as much as you think.  I'm not doubting that certain shafts can help make a head shine brighter than it already does, I do doubt completely that the shaft is the engine of the club head and makes any big difference.  I see it day in and day out with my fittings.  I don't care what shaft I put in their hands after we have the perfect head, the end result is rarely significantly different from the baseline stock shaft.

That is patently false. An incorrect shaft weight and/or bend profile will not overcome the "perfect" head.

Shaft weight has absolutely nothing to do with launch and spin, only direction. Bend profile MIGHT change launch and spin, but chances are it won't make a significant difference. You and I talked back and forth in another thread where I hit a 70g senior flex vs a 115g stiff and a 130g x flex in the same head and showed there as 24 RPMs of spin difference and 0.2* change in launch. This was all in the same head.

I don't know how else I can put it. I've shown you and others the data from me and others. Wishon has posted many articles saying it, along with Stuart G and others have said it.  I urge you, go grab your driver and try it with your preferred shaft and then grab a same weight shaft with similar torque but vastly different bend profiles and look closely at the launch and spin. I can almost guarantee it there won't be a significant change in your total carry or overall numbers. At the end of the day shaft isn't nearly as important as everyone makes it out to be.

I'll just leave this right here, quoting the best:

http://www.golfwrx.c...hould-you-play/

Contact, spin loft, and speed dictate launch angle and spin rate. Shaft weight correctly allows a player to optimize those factors. Please, read the experts you quote my friend.

I challenge you to pull a single quote from that article you linked me to where Wishon mentions any of what you said in your last post to me.  The Cole's Notes to me states exactly what I said to you, that an improperly fit shaft weight will cause the player to be more inconsistent.  He doesn't mention a thing in there about shaft influencing the launch and spin.  His synopsis is "Match the weights of the clubs to the golfer’s transition force, tempo, rhythm and strength and a higher level of swing consistency happens, which also results in a greater on-center hit performance, better quality “misses” and fewer “off-the-world” shots."  Which happens to be exactly what I said, that shaft weight controls direction only, and has little to no bearing on launch OR spin of a shot.  That is solely done by the head design and the loft of the club head.  If I gave you your Speeder Platinum 5X vs. lets say a PX LZ Handcrafted 50X, or even an old school Pershing 55X I would be very, very, very surprised if there were significant launch and spin differences once we plopped them into your Epic head at the correct loft, weight setting, and lie angle.  

Please, read your sources before you post them, my friend.

Edited by phatchrisrules, 13 September 2017 - 08:45 AM.

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#21 phatchrisrules

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:43 AM

View Posthardcaliber, on 12 September 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

I appreciate all your points.  I don't have any insider experience with the industry, so I don't necessarily know all the numbers involved and what a fitter needs to do to to turn a profit.

Truth be told I'm not really that hung up on the particular cost of the equipment.  My concern is mostly the fact that the whole system is such a conflict of interest that it seems hard to trust it.  I know that there are many great people out there doing fittings who will try to be as honest as possible.  At the end of the day however, it still comes down to moving product.

No worries, I don't expect most people to know the ins and outs of equipment sales.  At the end of the day, no OEM is going to give anyone an account to get all their clubs and shafts and whatnot without being on board to sell them.  So just be upfront, say you aren't buying today, but you want to be fit for $X dollars and you like the looks of clubs a, b, c.  It will tremendously help any of the pressure you might feel.
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21

#22 North Butte

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:52 AM

I think a lot of WRX'ers don't actually want or need a "fitting" per se. What they're really looking for is a chance to hit half a dozen clubheads with a dozen different shafts on a launch monitor. And maybe some advice on the side. But for the hardcore equipment 'ho it's often literally just the kid-in-a-candy-shop experience of seeing what numbers they can get with this or that shaft/head combination they've heard about online.
A sensible man will realize that the eyes may be confused in two ways---by a change from light to darkness or from darkness to light; and he will recognize the same thing happens to the soul.

--Plato

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#23 apprenti23

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:41 AM

View PostNorth Butte, on 13 September 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

I think a lot of WRX'ers don't actually want or need a "fitting" per se. What they're really looking for is a chance to hit half a dozen clubheads with a dozen different shafts on a launch monitor. And maybe some advice on the side. But for the hardcore equipment 'ho it's often literally just the kid-in-a-candy-shop experience of seeing what numbers they can get with this or that shaft/head combination they've heard about online.

Bingo- most WRX'rs think they know everything so it gives them an opportunity to try stuff and see what they need to go buy on the BST or fleabay.

A WRX'r doesn't want to be dialed into the perfect setup because keeping a full set for multiple seasons ruins their hobby.

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