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Where to live and join a club? Scottsdale, Palm Spings, Other?

palm springs scottsdale arizona california

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#1 utkochster

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 04:30 AM

All - I have been living overseas now for over 7 years and will be moving back within the year.  Once I move back though....I will be working a month on / month off rotation schedule and could live anywhere.

Where would you recommend living and what golf clubs to join?

Information about me:
  • I have 2 young kids (3rd on the way)
  • Want a family friendly place
  • Prefer the dry heat
  • Prefer a membership that has more than one course
  • Prefer a membership with a decent standard of golf & plenty of competitions
  • Prefer to buy a house (nothing crazy expensive)
We have been to Palm Springs, CA before and are planning a trip to Scottsdale, AZ in November this year to check it out.  Without having done much research, we are looking around PGA West in Palm Springs for golf and living or Desert Mountain and live somewhere else around Scottsdale.  We understand that both places probably cater to retired folks but we live pretty relaxed lives and just want there to be enough things for the kids.  The main goal is to live in a place with 300+ days/year of sunshine and be able to play a lot of golf on my time off.

Any help or thoughts on this topic would be greatly appreciated.  Please pm me if you are willing to discuss this in more detail.

Regards - Andy


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#2 mallrat

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:44 AM

The kids would be the biggest determining factor for me and because of that I might rule out Palm Springs area. Might be fun but from my visits I just can't see a ton of things for kids and would seriously question the quality of the schools.

I would add Texas (a couple different cities but Dallas, San Antonio and Austin) and Las Vegas in adddition to Scottsdale.

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#3 Chomper

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:40 AM

Young kids at Desert Mountain might be a challenge, as there is very little in the area outside of the golf community for kids to do.

In Scottsdale, AZ I would look at DC Ranch, but also Arizona CC and somewhere in Chandler, AZ (I do not know the private courses in Chandler, but I am sure that some of the folks in the SW forum know much more than me). More kid friendly stuff at AZ CC and in Chandler overall.

Good luck w the search.

Edited by Chomper, 04 September 2017 - 11:40 AM.


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#4 Socrates

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:15 PM

There are a couple of big differences between Scottsdale and Palm Springs.  Scottsdale is part of a much larger Phoenix and you get all the things that go with a massive city.  Congested freeways that are 8 lanes wide - each way and takes forever to get from one end to the other.  Palm Springs is like Scottsdale without Phoenix.  If you don't want to, you never have to go on I10 to get anywhere and you get to almost anywhere in less than 20 minutes.  Been to both and for my 2 cents, it's PS hands down.

Golf wise - The quality and quantity of courses are comparable.  What I found was a big difference was in how the courses played - particularly off the fairway.  In Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa and surrounding areas, the off-fairway areas were full of all manner of cactus, thorny bushes and almost any form of plant life that was attempting to shred your clothing and skin.  Palm Springs has that too, but most courses are more refined.  It might have more to do with many courses were created out of nothing rather than carved out of the desert - leaving all the desert as it was, between holes.  You are still going to find wildlife of all sorts that might try to kill you, but maybe less of it.  In PS you can go out there and play your ball most of the times.  While in Scottsdale/Phoenix you are often able to see your ball but that's as close as you are going to want to get, let alone think you can play it.

Not trying to be over dramatic, but that's how I found it.  If I were to be moving and had to pick, it would be PS.  Now every city has it's drawbacks and unsavory underbelly, but I just found PS to be a nicer place to be.  One major drawback with PS, is that the public transit system seems to be non-existent.  I'm sure it is there, I just didn't see large quantities of buses and taxis.  One other thing, PS literally rolls up and is dead by 9pm so if you are after wild nightlife, you might be in the wrong place.
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#5 Roadking2003

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 01:01 PM

I would rule out anywhere in CA due to taxes, huge crowds, and cost of living.

If you want dry heat, you must stay west of the Mississippi.  And AZ is much dryer than TX.

From a golf standpoint, there is nothing better than Desert Mountain with their six great Nicklaus courses.


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#6 vallygolf

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:14 AM

View PostSocrates, on 04 September 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

There are a couple of big differences between Scottsdale and Palm Springs.  Scottsdale is part of a much larger Phoenix and you get all the things that go with a massive city.  Congested freeways that are 8 lanes wide - each way and takes forever to get from one end to the other.  Palm Springs is like Scottsdale without Phoenix.  If you don't want to, you never have to go on I10 to get anywhere and you get to almost anywhere in less than 20 minutes.  Been to both and for my 2 cents, it's PS hands down.

Golf wise - The quality and quantity of courses are comparable.  What I found was a big difference was in how the courses played - particularly off the fairway.  In Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa and surrounding areas, the off-fairway areas were full of all manner of cactus, thorny bushes and almost any form of plant life that was attempting to shred your clothing and skin.  Palm Springs has that too, but most courses are more refined.  It might have more to do with many courses were created out of nothing rather than carved out of the desert - leaving all the desert as it was, between holes.  You are still going to find wildlife of all sorts that might try to kill you, but maybe less of it.  In PS you can go out there and play your ball most of the times.  While in Scottsdale/Phoenix you are often able to see your ball but that's as close as you are going to want to get, let alone think you can play it.

Not trying to be over dramatic, but that's how I found it.  If I were to be moving and had to pick, it would be PS.  Now every city has it's drawbacks and unsavory underbelly, but I just found PS to be a nicer place to be.  One major drawback with PS, is that the public transit system seems to be non-existent.  I'm sure it is there, I just didn't see large quantities of buses and taxis.  One other thing, PS literally rolls up and is dead by 9pm so if you are after wild nightlife, you might be in the wrong place.


Valid points, however Palm Springs is like being stuck in a giant retirement community.  There is a reason so many people live in big cities, even with the traffic and other inconveniences.  IMO the golf question between PS and SD is a wash.  Both will offer fantastic year round golf.  Somebody mentioned above SE valley (Chandler/Gilbert).  Great area for families, not as heavy on the golf.  Best private options are Seville and Encanterra.  Both fun playable courses.  Seville has a younger membership with pools/ waterslides, and kids.  Decent public golf around, but nothing like Scottsdale.

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#7 az2au

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:35 AM

I love the idea that we have clothes shredding plants and all manner of things that can kill you.  :happy:  I don't find it that way but I can totally see visitors thinking it is true.  Like everything you get used to where you are.  

Desert Mountain's courses are fine but there's a reason you'll never see any of them at the top of the rankings.  They are good to very good but none are outstanding.  That said, what do I know, by far my favorite one is Outlaw and it is usually ranked the lowest.  I don't like the fact that is hard to walk most of them and that there are homes all around other than Outlaw.  All very nice and honestly a fairly decent bargain at $22K/year or whatever their dues are now in comparison to other clubs in the area which tend to be between $8-$13K for one course.

Here's the thing about Desert Mountain if you live here though, it is so freaking far from everything.  Let's take the Geronimo clubhouse, IIRC it is about 6 miles from the main gate.  If you want to get to Carefree or Cave Creek you're talking about a 20 min effort at minimum.  Nearest grocery store and gas is probably closer to 30 min and if you want to go out for a nice meal in Old Town it is an 1:00-1:15.  Most of the people I work with cannot believe how far north I live (Troon Village) and it would take me 30 minutes of heading dead north to get to any of the Desert Mountain courses.  We considered buying a house there but after several tests and talking to other members we know it seemed like we'd feel trapped as we spend a lot of time downtown.  One of my coworkers who has a house there bought a condo downtown because he got so sick of driving back and forth every day.  In summary, you'll definitely want to understand the geography before buying there.

As far Palm Springs, I think it would kinda suck.  Feels like a small, upper class suburb with nothing else around.  Fine to visit but I can't imagine living there and being happy because it doesn't have the stuff I like to do.  Totally get how others would like it though.

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#8 OutBackHack

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:16 AM

Cabo?


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#9 puttnforthe8

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 12:42 PM

View PostSocrates, on 04 September 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

There are a couple of big differences between Scottsdale and Palm Springs.  Scottsdale is part of a much larger Phoenix and you get all the things that go with a massive city.  Congested freeways that are 8 lanes wide - each way and takes forever to get from one end to the other.  Palm Springs is like Scottsdale without Phoenix.  If you don't want to, you never have to go on I10 to get anywhere and you get to almost anywhere in less than 20 minutes.  Been to both and for my 2 cents, it's PS hands down.

Golf wise - The quality and quantity of courses are comparable.  What I found was a big difference was in how the courses played - particularly off the fairway.  In Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa and surrounding areas, the off-fairway areas were full of all manner of cactus, thorny bushes and almost any form of plant life that was attempting to shred your clothing and skin.  Palm Springs has that too, but most courses are more refined.  It might have more to do with many courses were created out of nothing rather than carved out of the desert - leaving all the desert as it was, between holes.  You are still going to find wildlife of all sorts that might try to kill you, but maybe less of it.  In PS you can go out there and play your ball most of the times.  While in Scottsdale/Phoenix you are often able to see your ball but that's as close as you are going to want to get, let alone think you can play it.

Not trying to be over dramatic, but that's how I found it.  If I were to be moving and had to pick, it would be PS.  Now every city has it's drawbacks and unsavory underbelly, but I just found PS to be a nicer place to be.  One major drawback with PS, is that the public transit system seems to be non-existent.  I'm sure it is there, I just didn't see large quantities of buses and taxis.  One other thing, PS literally rolls up and is dead by 9pm so if you are after wild nightlife, you might be in the wrong place.

All the deadly plant and wild life said the same exact thing about you!

Pretty much everything said here is wrong.  So might want to talk/listen to actual residents!

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#10 toypor

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:00 PM

Sounds like some air travel for work might be in the cards?  Closest airport to PS with decent direct flights is LAX. If you leave around 2am Monday morning you should make it in time for a 8am flight : )

Not sure I understand the argument for PS around not getting on a freeway? You can likely get to as much stuff in Scottsdale without getting on a freeway as you could in PS. Difference is in Scottsdale you have the option of driving to what draws people to a major city...  Pro and major college sports, cultural events, multitude of dining options, nightlife, etc...  



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#11 dtm6582

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:10 PM

My wife has family that moved to PS (they have since left).  When I asked them about it the first words out of my uncle-inlaw's? mouth were about how unbelievable the taxes in California are.  That may be a factor.  Arizona is pretty reasonable on that front.

OP, I've lived in the Phoenix area for about 10 years.  I'll give you a different perspective because unlike most of the actual residents who will respond I don't really like it.  It's hot, crowded, poor air quality, traffic sucks.  The days are long when the weather is hot, short when it's beautiful.  If I were in my late 50's approaching retirement and I was going to stay here I would buy a house in the Carefree/Cave Creek/North Scottsdale area.  It's cleaner, quieter, and cooler up there.  The best golf courses are in that section of town too.  But the trade off, as others have mentioned, is that you are a good distance from the city amenities (downtown, ball parks, etc).  With young kids that may be a concern.  Chandler isn't nearly as good for golf, but it is a very nice, family friendly area (close to ASU, still a bit of a drive to ball parks).  There's a rather popping tech economy taking off down there too so not the worst place in the Valley to be.  I would definitely check it out while you're here.  So far as private courses in that area..I haven't a clue.  Public golf is strong here though, and given your work schedule you may not want to join a club.  I personally tried the membership thing for a year and decided it wasn't worth it.

As for the scary plants/wildlife you should get the picture from the other responses.  When we first moved here from North Dakota somehow we had it in our heads that rattlesnakes would be in all the trees.  So anytime we went under a tree to play a shot we were expecting to die.  20 years later I think I have seen maybe a dozen rattlesnakes.  They have all been fleeing or sleeping.  The plants can be pokey but that certainly isn't a blanket statement.  Some courses are worse than others (I feel like Socrates might be describing Quintero).  We also have plenty of parkland style courses.  Either way that's easy to avoid.  Just don't hit your ball in the desert. :)

Oh, and don't expect good public transportation at either one.

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#12 az2au

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:35 PM

Not arguing with dtm but the traffic thing is about perspective. Compared to any city of similar size PHX has the best traffic I've experienced. D.C., LA, NYC, PHL, DFW, MSP, ATL, Chicago, Houston, heck, even Cincinnati and Louisville have much worse traffic than PHX in my experience. Perhaps San Antonio or something is better but I've worked or lived in all of the places I just listed and PHX traffic is considerably better than any of them. Even US60 between Chandler and downtown. We have people from all over the country on my project site in Tempe and they complain about the heat but universally praise our traffic as being better than wherever they live.

That doesn't mean it doesn't suck in places BTW. It does. Just not compared to most major metropolitan areas.

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#13 utkochster

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 04:00 AM

View Postmallrat, on 04 September 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

The kids would be the biggest determining factor for me and because of that I might rule out Palm Springs area. Might be fun but from my visits I just can't see a ton of things for kids and would seriously question the quality of the schools.

I would add Texas (a couple different cities but Dallas, San Antonio and Austin) and Las Vegas in adddition to Scottsdale.

Thanks for the input.  I am originally from the north Houston area and went to university in Austin, so I am familiar with those area.  We have family in Houston and is easy to go back there but for 3-4 years I could live anywhere I want....and Houston is just not at the top of the list.  We have thought about Austin too and were thinking about Lakeway area or Barton Springs.

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#14 dtm6582

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:41 AM

View Postaz2au, on 05 September 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

Not arguing with dtm but the traffic thing is about perspective. Compared to any city of similar size PHX has the best traffic I've experienced. D.C., LA, NYC, PHL, DFW, MSP, ATL, Chicago, Houston, heck, even Cincinnati and Louisville have much worse traffic than PHX in my experience.

Definitely, just to be clear I wasn't saying traffic in Phoenix is bad compared to other major metros.  I was saying it's bad in general as it is in most, if not all major cities.  If I were in OP's shoes and I could live anywhere (and I only had to worry about jumping on a plane every month or so) I wouldn't even consider living in a major metro.  Young kids, year round golf, dry?  Prescott would be it for me.

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#15 Shilgy

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:32 PM

View PostSocrates, on 04 September 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

There are a couple of big differences between Scottsdale and Palm Springs.  Scottsdale is part of a much larger Phoenix and you get all the things that go with a massive city.  Congested freeways that are 8 lanes wide - each way and takes forever to get from one end to the other.  Palm Springs is like Scottsdale without Phoenix.  If you don't want to, you never have to go on I10 to get anywhere and you get to almost anywhere in less than 20 minutes.  Been to both and for my 2 cents, it's PS hands down.

Golf wise - The quality and quantity of courses are comparable.  What I found was a big difference was in how the courses played - particularly off the fairway.  In Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa and surrounding areas, the off-fairway areas were full of all manner of cactus, thorny bushes and almost any form of plant life that was attempting to shred your clothing and skin.  Palm Springs has that too, but most courses are more refined.  It might have more to do with many courses were created out of nothing rather than carved out of the desert - leaving all the desert as it was, between holes.  You are still going to find wildlife of all sorts that might try to kill you, but maybe less of it.  In PS you can go out there and play your ball most of the times.  While in Scottsdale/Phoenix you are often able to see your ball but that's as close as you are going to want to get, let alone think you can play it.

Not trying to be over dramatic, but that's how I found it.  If I were to be moving and had to pick, it would be PS.  Now every city has it's drawbacks and unsavory underbelly, but I just found PS to be a nicer place to be.  One major drawback with PS, is that the public transit system seems to be non-existent.  I'm sure it is there, I just didn't see large quantities of buses and taxis.  One other thing, PS literally rolls up and is dead by 9pm so if you are after wild nightlife, you might be in the wrong place.
I do believe that I have now heard it all. Let's see, we can't move to Oregon and play Bandon because Bigfoot might get yes. Doesn't Texas have the Chucacabra?
All we have here is the jackalope.
  As others have now pointed out yes, it takes longer to go from top to bottom of the Phoenix market. Might be because it's much much bigger? Why would you need to drive to the other end anyways?
  That said Desert Mountain is great but not necessarily for kids.  And yes, there you are at the extreme and it takes a while to get to many places of interest.

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#16 Socrates

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:42 PM

View PostShilgy, on 06 September 2017 - 11:32 PM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 04 September 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

There are a couple of big differences between Scottsdale and Palm Springs.  Scottsdale is part of a much larger Phoenix and you get all the things that go with a massive city.  Congested freeways that are 8 lanes wide - each way and takes forever to get from one end to the other.  Palm Springs is like Scottsdale without Phoenix.  If you don't want to, you never have to go on I10 to get anywhere and you get to almost anywhere in less than 20 minutes.  Been to both and for my 2 cents, it's PS hands down.

Golf wise - The quality and quantity of courses are comparable.  What I found was a big difference was in how the courses played - particularly off the fairway.  In Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa and surrounding areas, the off-fairway areas were full of all manner of cactus, thorny bushes and almost any form of plant life that was attempting to shred your clothing and skin.  Palm Springs has that too, but most courses are more refined.  It might have more to do with many courses were created out of nothing rather than carved out of the desert - leaving all the desert as it was, between holes.  You are still going to find wildlife of all sorts that might try to kill you, but maybe less of it.  In PS you can go out there and play your ball most of the times.  While in Scottsdale/Phoenix you are often able to see your ball but that's as close as you are going to want to get, let alone think you can play it.

Not trying to be over dramatic, but that's how I found it.  If I were to be moving and had to pick, it would be PS.  Now every city has it's drawbacks and unsavory underbelly, but I just found PS to be a nicer place to be.  One major drawback with PS, is that the public transit system seems to be non-existent.  I'm sure it is there, I just didn't see large quantities of buses and taxis.  One other thing, PS literally rolls up and is dead by 9pm so if you are after wild nightlife, you might be in the wrong place.
I do believe that I have now heard it all. Let's see, we can't move to Oregon and play Bandon because Bigfoot might get yes. Doesn't Texas have the Chucacabra?
All we have here is the jackalope.
  As others have now pointed out yes, it takes longer to go from top to bottom of the Phoenix market. Might be because it's much much bigger? Why would you need to drive to the other end anyways?
  That said Desert Mountain is great but not necessarily for kids.  And yes, there you are at the extreme and it takes a while to get to many places of interest.
I wasn't saying Phoenix is a s*** hole.  Nor was I saying I don't like the golf courses in the area.  I was trying to be constructively describing the differences in the two areas.  It's my opinion and I guess some feel differently.  You won't find any Jackolopes or Chupacabra's (if you're going to invoke mythical creatures, spell it right) in Palm Springs but you also won't find a Dove Mtn style of course there either.

Why would you want to drive to the other end?  Because I, like a lot of people, like to play different and all sorts of courses rather than just stop in one area and play the same course every day.  I might want to drive to Wickenburg or Dove Mtn or Southern Dunes or We-Ko-Pa or any number of other good tracks and if you are located in Scottsdale, driving to those places is can take considerable time especially if you have to deal with peak traffic periods.  You really don't find that issue in Palm Springs.  You can go to PGA West, Classic Club, Silverrock or Escena from almost anywhere in 30 minutes or less and never go on the Interstate.
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#17 Shilgy

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:39 PM

View PostSocrates, on 07 September 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 06 September 2017 - 11:32 PM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 04 September 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

There are a couple of big differences between Scottsdale and Palm Springs.  Scottsdale is part of a much larger Phoenix and you get all the things that go with a massive city.  Congested freeways that are 8 lanes wide - each way and takes forever to get from one end to the other.  Palm Springs is like Scottsdale without Phoenix.  If you don't want to, you never have to go on I10 to get anywhere and you get to almost anywhere in less than 20 minutes.  Been to both and for my 2 cents, it's PS hands down.

Golf wise - The quality and quantity of courses are comparable.  What I found was a big difference was in how the courses played - particularly off the fairway.  In Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa and surrounding areas, the off-fairway areas were full of all manner of cactus, thorny bushes and almost any form of plant life that was attempting to shred your clothing and skin.  Palm Springs has that too, but most courses are more refined.  It might have more to do with many courses were created out of nothing rather than carved out of the desert - leaving all the desert as it was, between holes.  You are still going to find wildlife of all sorts that might try to kill you, but maybe less of it.  In PS you can go out there and play your ball most of the times.  While in Scottsdale/Phoenix you are often able to see your ball but that's as close as you are going to want to get, let alone think you can play it.

Not trying to be over dramatic, but that's how I found it.  If I were to be moving and had to pick, it would be PS.  Now every city has it's drawbacks and unsavory underbelly, but I just found PS to be a nicer place to be.  One major drawback with PS, is that the public transit system seems to be non-existent.  I'm sure it is there, I just didn't see large quantities of buses and taxis.  One other thing, PS literally rolls up and is dead by 9pm so if you are after wild nightlife, you might be in the wrong place.
I do believe that I have now heard it all. Let's see, we can't move to Oregon and play Bandon because Bigfoot might get yes. Doesn't Texas have the Chucacabra?
All we have here is the jackalope.
  As others have now pointed out yes, it takes longer to go from top to bottom of the Phoenix market. Might be because it's much much bigger? Why would you need to drive to the other end anyways?
  That said Desert Mountain is great but not necessarily for kids.  And yes, there you are at the extreme and it takes a while to get to many places of interest.
I wasn't saying Phoenix is a s*** hole.  Nor was I saying I don't like the golf courses in the area.  I was trying to be constructively describing the differences in the two areas.  It's my opinion and I guess some feel differently.  You won't find any Jackolopes or Chupacabra's (if you're going to invoke mythical creatures, spell it right) in Palm Springs but you also won't find a Dove Mtn style of course there either.

Why would you want to drive to the other end?  Because I, like a lot of people, like to play different and all sorts of courses rather than just stop in one area and play the same course every day.  I might want to drive to Wickenburg or Dove Mtn or Southern Dunes or We-Ko-Pa or any number of other good tracks and if you are located in Scottsdale, driving to those places is can take considerable time especially if you have to deal with peak traffic periods.  You really don't find that issue in Palm Springs.  You can go to PGA West, Classic Club, Silverrock or Escena from almost anywhere in 30 minutes or less and never go on the Interstate.
As we've learned before sarcasm does not post well. My apologies. You can find just as many nice courses I think on the north end of town here as you can in all of Palm Springs. That is the point I was making. But you have the added benefit of being relatively close to even more nicer golf here in Phoenix. As well as professional sports events and such. Yes, Phoenix can be a pain to drive at times. But then again it is the 5th(?) largest metro area in the country.
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#18 Socrates

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:20 PM

View PostShilgy, on 07 September 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

As we've learned before sarcasm does not post well. My apologies. You can find just as many nice courses I think on the north end of town here as you can in all of Palm Springs. That is the point I was making. But you have the added benefit of being relatively close to even more nicer golf here in Phoenix. As well as professional sports events and such. Yes, Phoenix can be a pain to drive at times. But then again it is the 5th(?) largest metro area in the country.
As of this weekend, it likely will be the 3rd largest metro area.  :(

Apologies accepted.  I really like the Scottsdale area (and South of Mesa too), but too many of the the courses I would like to play are really private (like Desert Mtn) and being an outsider, I just don't have any connections to get on there.  One other thing about PS is the small airport and that it's a direct flight to Winnipeg.  After Customs a majority of the area is outside and that's a nice atmosphere rather than being cooped up in a box.  Not that PHX isn't a direct flight and a nice airport, but the international holding area resembles a stockyard some days.

Don't know much about the tax situation, but I guess that has to be taken into account depending on your profession or status.
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#19 phx1205

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:59 PM

View PostSocrates, on 07 September 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

View PostShilgy, on 06 September 2017 - 11:32 PM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 04 September 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

There are a couple of big differences between Scottsdale and Palm Springs.  Scottsdale is part of a much larger Phoenix and you get all the things that go with a massive city.  Congested freeways that are 8 lanes wide - each way and takes forever to get from one end to the other.  Palm Springs is like Scottsdale without Phoenix.  If you don't want to, you never have to go on I10 to get anywhere and you get to almost anywhere in less than 20 minutes.  Been to both and for my 2 cents, it's PS hands down.

Golf wise - The quality and quantity of courses are comparable.  What I found was a big difference was in how the courses played - particularly off the fairway.  In Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa and surrounding areas, the off-fairway areas were full of all manner of cactus, thorny bushes and almost any form of plant life that was attempting to shred your clothing and skin.  Palm Springs has that too, but most courses are more refined.  It might have more to do with many courses were created out of nothing rather than carved out of the desert - leaving all the desert as it was, between holes.  You are still going to find wildlife of all sorts that might try to kill you, but maybe less of it.  In PS you can go out there and play your ball most of the times.  While in Scottsdale/Phoenix you are often able to see your ball but that's as close as you are going to want to get, let alone think you can play it.

Not trying to be over dramatic, but that's how I found it.  If I were to be moving and had to pick, it would be PS.  Now every city has it's drawbacks and unsavory underbelly, but I just found PS to be a nicer place to be.  One major drawback with PS, is that the public transit system seems to be non-existent.  I'm sure it is there, I just didn't see large quantities of buses and taxis.  One other thing, PS literally rolls up and is dead by 9pm so if you are after wild nightlife, you might be in the wrong place.
I do believe that I have now heard it all. Let's see, we can't move to Oregon and play Bandon because Bigfoot might get yes. Doesn't Texas have the Chucacabra?
All we have here is the jackalope.
  As others have now pointed out yes, it takes longer to go from top to bottom of the Phoenix market. Might be because it's much much bigger? Why would you need to drive to the other end anyways?
  That said Desert Mountain is great but not necessarily for kids.  And yes, there you are at the extreme and it takes a while to get to many places of interest.
I wasn't saying Phoenix is a s*** hole.  Nor was I saying I don't like the golf courses in the area.  I was trying to be constructively describing the differences in the two areas.  It's my opinion and I guess some feel differently.  You won't find any Jackolopes or Chupacabra's (if you're going to invoke mythical creatures, spell it right) in Palm Springs but you also won't find a Dove Mtn style of course there either.

Why would you want to drive to the other end?  Because I, like a lot of people, like to play different and all sorts of courses rather than just stop in one area and play the same course every day.  I might want to drive to Wickenburg or Dove Mtn or Southern Dunes or We-Ko-Pa or any number of other good tracks and if you are located in Scottsdale, driving to those places is can take considerable time especially if you have to deal with peak traffic periods.  You really don't find that issue in Palm Springs.  You can go to PGA West, Classic Club, Silverrock or Escena from almost anywhere in 30 minutes or less and never go on the Interstate.

Dude, the guy has 2 young kids and a 3rd on the way.  He isn't looking to drive around to play a bunch of different courses.  He needs a membership otherwise he will never be able to play!  

I couldn't imagine living in Palm Springs with young kids.  What would they do?  And where is the nearest Children's Hospital?   They would probably have to drive to Loma Linda an hour away if they needed pediatric specialists.  I have 2 young kids and couldn't imagine living there.

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#20 phx1205

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:07 PM

View Postutkochster, on 04 September 2017 - 04:30 AM, said:

All - I have been living overseas now for over 7 years and will be moving back within the year.  Once I move back though....I will be working a month on / month off rotation schedule and could live anywhere.

Where would you recommend living and what golf clubs to join?

Information about me:
  • I have 2 young kids (3rd on the way)
  • Want a family friendly place
  • Prefer the dry heat
  • Prefer a membership that has more than one course
  • Prefer a membership with a decent standard of golf & plenty of competitions
  • Prefer to buy a house (nothing crazy expensive)
We have been to Palm Springs, CA before and are planning a trip to Scottsdale, AZ in November this year to check it out.  Without having done much research, we are looking around PGA West in Palm Springs for golf and living or Desert Mountain and live somewhere else around Scottsdale.  We understand that both places probably cater to retired folks but we live pretty relaxed lives and just want there to be enough things for the kids.  The main goal is to live in a place with 300+ days/year of sunshine and be able to play a lot of golf on my time off.

Any help or thoughts on this topic would be greatly appreciated.  Please pm me if you are willing to discuss this in more detail.

Regards - Andy

You mentioned Desert Mountain, but then said you want to buy a house that isn't crazy expensive.  Not sure how to reconcile those two comments, since I think Desert Mountain is going to be over $1,400 a month in dues alone and isn't going to be super family friendly.   I have 2 young kids under 6, couldn't imagine living all the way up there with them.  But as you have probably already figured out, other than Whisper Rock and Anthem you aren't going to find private clubs with 2 courses.  Look at DC Ranch, Arizona CC, and Moon Valley as probably the best for being family friendly.  I'm a member at Moon Valley and while the club has had some issues in the past, that is mostly history and is an awesome place for kids.  

Even though you are only working every other month, I would still look to live close to where you will be working.


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#21 1lovesputters

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:20 PM

How about Tucson, at something like the Gallery? You can buy a membership that allows you 36 of their holes, plus the 3 nines at Dove Mountain.  Private, remote feeling but with amenities all close.  Worth a look into.  Lots of new construction too.
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#22 utkochster

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:08 AM

View Postphx1205, on 07 September 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

View Postutkochster, on 04 September 2017 - 04:30 AM, said:

All - I have been living overseas now for over 7 years and will be moving back within the year.  Once I move back though....I will be working a month on / month off rotation schedule and could live anywhere.

Where would you recommend living and what golf clubs to join?

Information about me:
  • I have 2 young kids (3rd on the way)
  • Want a family friendly place
  • Prefer the dry heat
  • Prefer a membership that has more than one course
  • Prefer a membership with a decent standard of golf & plenty of competitions
  • Prefer to buy a house (nothing crazy expensive)
We have been to Palm Springs, CA before and are planning a trip to Scottsdale, AZ in November this year to check it out.  Without having done much research, we are looking around PGA West in Palm Springs for golf and living or Desert Mountain and live somewhere else around Scottsdale.  We understand that both places probably cater to retired folks but we live pretty relaxed lives and just want there to be enough things for the kids.  The main goal is to live in a place with 300+ days/year of sunshine and be able to play a lot of golf on my time off.

Any help or thoughts on this topic would be greatly appreciated.  Please pm me if you are willing to discuss this in more detail.

Regards - Andy

You mentioned Desert Mountain, but then said you want to buy a house that isn't crazy expensive.  Not sure how to reconcile those two comments, since I think Desert Mountain is going to be over $1,400 a month in dues alone and isn't going to be super family friendly.   I have 2 young kids under 6, couldn't imagine living all the way up there with them.  But as you have probably already figured out, other than Whisper Rock and Anthem you aren't going to find private clubs with 2 courses.  Look at DC Ranch, Arizona CC, and Moon Valley as probably the best for being family friendly.  I'm a member at Moon Valley and while the club has had some issues in the past, that is mostly history and is an awesome place for kids.  

Even though you are only working every other month, I would still look to live close to where you will be working.

Thanks for the input.  We have ruled out Desert Mountain to live for sure.....but am still keen to check it out for a golf membership.  I talked to a guy at DM and got some good information and he said that I shouldn't live there with little ones.

I would like to know more about Whisper Rock, anyone have more information about it?  I have found very little other than it is exclusive, invite only, and here is a link to more information (although dated) - http://www.golfarizo...olf-phoenix.htm

It really isn't very possible to live close to where I will be working because it is in Kazakhstan

Edited by utkochster, 08 September 2017 - 07:09 AM.


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#23 az2au

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:36 AM

You don't need to live in Whisper Rock to be a member there. There are several great communities nearby. The one thing you might want to know about is that Whisper Rock is not a family membership, i.e., if your wife wants to play or you want your children to play you pay a guest fee. Upper is a great course.  Lower is not. Also, every time I've played there I've felt like I needed to carry around a briefcase of cash between caddie fees and the strong desire for everyone that plays there to bet heavily. It is a great club overall but the members I know there all belong to other clubs as well. Even the one that lives here full time.

If you really think you want 36 holes you could consider Scottsdale National. The policies might have shifted to being similar to WR however. I know they have a "usage fee" of $100 every time you play.

I guess I don't see the need to belong to a club with 36 though as belonging to any of these clubs in the North Scottsdale area will allow you plenty of access to other places.

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#24 Roadking2003

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:07 PM

View Postutkochster, on 08 September 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

I would like to know more about Whisper Rock, anyone have more information about it?  I have found very little other than it is exclusive, invite only, and here is a link to more information (although dated) - http://www.golfarizo...olf-phoenix.htm


Whisper Rock is spectacular.  If you can get in, snap it up immediately.

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#25 Socrates

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:18 PM

View PostRoadking2003, on 08 September 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

View Postutkochster, on 08 September 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

I would like to know more about Whisper Rock, anyone have more information about it?  I have found very little other than it is exclusive, invite only, and here is a link to more information (although dated) - http://www.golfarizo...olf-phoenix.htm


Whisper Rock is spectacular.  If you can get in, snap it up immediately.
Watch out for the food.  There was just two of us and when they brought out the food, there was enough for the Cardinals offensive line.  It was good though.  The place is first rate.

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#26 bradski

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:24 PM

Have you thought about Las Vegas?   A bit cooler than Phoenix and a large metro area with more year round residents.   Affordable housing and tax friendly.   I moved from southern California which wasn't affordable looking at all the surrounding states and settled in Utah which will only give you 9 months of golf per year.  
Palm springs is great for a few days of golf but if you are under 60 then there just isn't a ton to do.  Vegas has a few decent private options such as Tpc Summerlin,  Southern Highlands, Rio Secco.  Not  the golf selection in the two discussed above but plenty of good options.

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#27 Need4spd

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 10:37 PM

I could go in a lot of different directions here but for some reason traffic is drawing my attention. For a major city, the traffic we have in Phoenix is NOTHING compared to other major metro areas. This is a west coast bias if I ever saw one. There are so many cities with much worse traffic it's not even close.

The answer is Scottsdale, hands down. For the record, I LOVE Palms Springs. Love it, and I'm 34 years old. If you have the choice though why pigeon hole yourself? It's a giant retirement community by in large. Scottsdale offers the best of Palm Springs and so much more.
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#28 Shilgy

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:33 PM

View Postbradski, on 12 September 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Have you thought about Las Vegas?   A bit cooler than Phoenix and a large metro area with more year round residents.   Affordable housing and tax friendly.   I moved from southern California which wasn't affordable looking at all the surrounding states and settled in Utah which will only give you 9 months of golf per year.  
Palm springs is great for a few days of golf but if you are under 60 then there just isn't a ton to do.  Vegas has a few decent private options such as Tpc Summerlin,  Southern Highlands, Rio Secco.  Not  the golf selection in the two discussed above but plenty of good options.
More year round residents than where? Palm Springs yes had way fewer, Phoenix area not even close.
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#29 mizuno player

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Posted Yesterday, 05:33 PM

Madison club in Indio, CA. ( Palm Springs area ). Very family friendly.

Agree Palm springs area might not be best with kids. I do like the area. Been many times.

PGA West offers a lot. It ain't cheap. Initiation is 6 figures and dues pushing $1,000 per month.

I wish I had to make this decision!! Good luck.


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