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ASK QUESTIONS: Cleveland Golf CBX Wedge Live Q&A!!!


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#61 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:36 AM

View Postgprubes, on 01 September 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

In regards to forgiveness, is there going to be a noticeable difference between the CBX line and the RTX-3 CB??  It doesn't seem like the looks will be that different, but would it be worth it to move from RTX to CBX

Good question. There is a noticeable difference, and it comes from two key features. First, the CBX sole is definitely wider than RTX3 CB in the center and toe. Second, the CBX sweet spot is closer to the center of the face due to feel balancing technology. In R&D, we’ve been talking about forgiveness on a 1-10 scale, with the RTX3 blade at a 1 and the Smart Sole products at a 10. The CBX is meant to be a 5, where the RTX3 CB was probably more like a 3. Hope that helps!


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#62 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:39 AM

View PostYepyukon, on 03 September 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Thank you for the Q and A. My questions are these:

1. The cbx has a lighter-weight steel shaft which makes sense to match the lighter-weight shafts of game improvement irons. However, most other vendors recommend a heavier shaft in the wedge to reduce flipping. Obviously you have tested the shafts but have you seen similar results from misses?

2. I love my Srixon irons. Now that Cleveland is coming back to the states do you plan on eventually releasing a player style or will Srixon continue to be the player's side?

We spent a ton of time working closely with True Temper developing this shaft - months of player testing and iterating on weight and flex to make sure the end product was better for this player type in terms of feel, dispersion and ball flight.  Although this shaft is lighter than our RTX stock shaft, it is still heavier that a majority of the GI iron set stock shafts, which average around 100 grams. We found through thorough testing that 115 grams was the correct stock weight for the player type.

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#63 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:41 AM

View Postrussian7, on 05 September 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

View Postknudson81, on 28 August 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

Attachment ClevelandCBXQA.jpg

Cleveland Golf has a brand new wedge line for players who play cavity backs, the Cleveland CBX, and are ready to answer your questions. Join us on Thursday, September 7th (12 PM ET/9 AM PST) for a LIVE Q&A with product experts on all things Cleveland CBX wedges. They'll cover the all the new features, specs, and anything else you want to know on the Cleveland CBX wedge line.

Submit your questions now, and we'll see you for the chat!

Who's on the Cleveland Panel
Jeff Brunski, Director of R&D
Brian Schielke, Marketing Director
Dustin Brekke, Engineering Manager
Patrick Ripp, Senior Research Engineer
Zack Oakley, Product Manager-Golf Clubs

Attachment banner.png


When's It Happening:
Thursday September 7th, 12 PM ET/9 AM PT

Giveaway:
Cleveland has also added some really amazing items for 4 lucky GolfWRX members who have their question answered!
  • 1st Place Winner: Cleveland Launcher Driver
  • 2nd Place Winner: Cleveland Huntington Beach Putter
  • 3rd Place Winner: Cleveland Huntington Beach Putter
  • 4th Place Winner: Cleveland Huntington Beach Putter
Winners chosen by random from all questions that are answered.

Thanks for the opportunity!

My question is, i love cleveland looks but I always play vokey and currently nike for the grind options.

How would cleveland be able to add value or benefits through new grind options and turf interaction? Can you explain the benefits of your grind/bounce options and how a player looking for specific grind or bounces would benefit based on their playing conditions thank you!

P.s. the grind and not having knowledge on your product is the only deterrence in buying them as i love the looks. Thanks!

The RTX3 wedges come in three bounce options with three different sole grinds. If you are looking to trial different sole grinds and you hit a variety of different shots with your wedges and value versatility over forgiveness, those might be the best wedges for you. But, if you are looking to make your wedge game easier and would score better with a more forgiving wedge, the CBX is probably your best bet, and the CBX only comes in one sole grind. It’s not for everyone...but it should work better than the RTX3 for the average player who plays cavity back irons.

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#64 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:46 AM

View PostDNice26, on 05 September 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

Thank you for taking our questions.

I see the stock shaft option is the DG120, any particular reasoning for going with this shaft versus the standard S300 type option?

The CBX stock option is a True Temper DG115 shaft.  The intention is a lighter weight shaft that better blends with the lighter weight steel shafts in most game improvement irons.  The players playing GI irons currently see a large jump going from their irons to traditional better player wedges with around 130g shafts.  So having a 115g option still provides the swingweight and control of a wedge while bringing closer to the 105g and below weight of GI iron shafts.

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#65 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:48 AM

View Postxxio, on 05 September 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

What is the spin/rpm difference on partial shots between a cb and a muscleback wedge?

The main factor driving spin off the wedge shot is groove and face technology. Some people might say it’s shaft flex, sole grind, CG location, MOI, or whatever else they’re trying to sell you. Those things matter, but not nearly as much as the face technology. Our CBX wedge spins the same as an RTX3 muscleback wedge because they share the same face technology.


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#66 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:50 AM

View PostWVP, on 05 September 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

General question, you guys permanently back to making a full line of equipment?

Yes, we intend to be, but if I could predict the future with certainty, I would be out on a golf course right now rather than at work. :)

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#67 HackinNut

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:51 AM

Who's vision was it to take Cleveland down this path to pursue this demographic of golfer in the wedge lineup?  Wedges up to this point have been forged solid back vs now the cavity back GI irons for the "hacker"

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#68 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:52 AM

View Post3eagles18, on 05 September 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

I did not see any specs for the CBX stock graphite shaft on your website? What is the weight and flex?

At 90 grams, the Rotex wedge flex shaft is slightly heavier than most cavity back graphite iron shafts to give a bit more stability around the green.

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#69 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:56 AM

View PostBenjiHogan, on 05 September 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Does the micro cavity in the hosel make reshafting the CBX any different to another wedge?

Thanks!

Jonnie

No, the micro-cavity will not interfere with a reshaft. We do a lot of testing regarding this as well as bending before we commit to it. You shouldn’t have any issue here.

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#70 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:57 AM

View Postelcgolf, on 05 September 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Thanks for joining us. Although I'm a lower handicap and probably not the target market, I love the looks of these wedges, particularly the more rounded leading edge and sight amount of offset. Beyond the apparent differences (cavity, etc.), can you touch on some of the more subtle design aspects that differentiate this from the RTX and other, player wedges on the market? Thank you.

One thing that makes this product different from the RTX line is the implementation of Feel Balancing Technology. Because of the slightly larger profile, we are actually able to move weight more easily and keep the wedge looking balanced. This means the CG is actually closer to the center of the face than ever before. This yields the best feeling wedge we’ve ever created. Of the better players who have tried this product, a lot of them love the feel and easy use of the CBX wedge. We think that there will be a lot of better players who will make the switch too, especially in their lower lofted wedges.


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#71 illum1na71

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:58 AM

With a 56, 60 wedges what's the recommended loft gapping if I'm looking to replace my PW and Gap wedge.

Full swing yardage

PW - 135
Gap - ?
56 - 105
60 - 80

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#72 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:59 AM

View Postram01002, on 05 September 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Have you seen a change in buyer demand as more players are learning techniques to "utilize bounce" in their short game shots?

Interesting question. This question most makes me think of what I see happen when people try the Smart Sole wedges. I’m not sure I would call it learning to utilize bounce so much as people realizing they don’t have to hit shots fat as often - that a wedge’s bounce can help them a lot. Not quite the same thing as what you’re asking, but it’s definitely fun to watch. We definitely have a number of Tour staffers who like to use the sole more than others, but I can’t say that I’ve seen a large-scale market shift in how people are using and buying wedges.

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#73 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:01 PM

View Posttimbo08, on 05 September 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

Do you still recommend CBX for someone who doesn't use all of their wedges for full swings?  For example, my 60 is pretty much only used inside of 40 yards.  Would I be better served to go with the RTX 3.0 or can I still benefit from some of the features of the CBX?

It depends how you use your wedges. If you’re a player who opens the face a lot and needs maximum versatility, then the RTX-3 might be a better option for you. But if you find yourself hitting full shots/pitches and you open the face occasionally, then you’re a CBX guy. If you’re a player who struggles with consistency and distance control, the CBX wedge will help you immensely. Even on those short shots around the green, you’ll see more consistency with the CBX. The CBX is a good middle ground for those looking for something with added forgiveness without trading in a ton of versatility to get it.

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#74 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:03 PM

View Postjlummus94, on 05 September 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Obviously Cleveland is known for their wedges and after Srixon decided to disband Cleveland irons due to market share, what do you believe has changed that can increase Cleveland's desirability?

Is the thought process to be a brand fully targeted to the average amateur or will Cleveland hope to have tour ambassadors using Drivers and Woods?

Srixon has struggled in the US with woods and hybrids specifically so it seems like this would be the perfect combination for Cleveland and Srixon.

The Cleveland brand is focused on helping real golfers score better. Real golfers are the golfers who are serious about the game, but may not be scratch/tour pros. This especially holds true for woods and irons. We feel with Srixon positioned as the tour brand, Cleveland can really focus on the “Real Golfer” and make better products for this player.
When it comes to wedges, Cleveland continues to hit the entire spectrum of player types, from your tour pros to your super game improvement golfer.

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#75 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:04 PM

View PostJCool, on 06 September 2017 - 01:26 AM, said:

I've seen the new CBX wedges in the store and noticed a wider sole.

1.  I shoot in the low to mid 90's, so a cavity back wedge would be helpful to me on full shots.  I've seen them in the store, and I like the look of them.  
Will that wider sole make it easier for me to get out of sand as well?  

2.  I love the look of the new Launcher CBX iron set in pictures, but I haven't seen them in my local shops just yet.
Cleveland website does not list what the stock shaft is.
Can you tell me about what shaft is being used in the new Cleveland Launcher CBX iron sets, such as brand of shaft, model of shaft, weight of shaft, flexpoint?

Thanks for taking the time to do this.

The wider sole will definitely make getting out of the sand easier. Most good bunker players take a wedge into the sand and open up the face. In doing so, you are adding bounce which is essential when hitting out of softer lies (like sand). WIth the wider sole, you will have naturally have more bounce. This will allow you you to glide through the sand and dig less, so it is easier to get the ball up and down.
The new Cleveland CBX Launcher iron feature a brand new shaft from True Temper called the Dynamic Gold DST98. As you probably know, Dynamic Gold is the standard by which all other shafts are measured. This shaft is basically a lightweight version of Dynamic Gold with a higher balance point. A higher balance point will move more weight towards the hands, which allows you swing with less effort to achieve a higher swing speed. This shaft is 98 grams.


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#76 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:06 PM

View PostTNTlefty, on 06 September 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

1) what playability feature sets this wedge apart from the previous larger/CB wedge lines like rtx and cg16/14?  

2) many larger/CB irons have vibration dampening inserts in the cavity - why none on the new wedges?

With previous wedges like the RTX CBs and the CG16, we would always constrain ourselves to make “tour proven shapes” and adapt our existing Tour models to the average golfer. With the CBX wedge, it was the first time in history that we just said “with no constraints, just design a premium wedge for the average golfer.” It gave us “permission” to make a wider sole, enhance the feel balancing, carve out the back of the wedge more than ever, match the lower lofted heads to the shape of popular cavity back iron heads, and shift the swing weight and shaft specs to be closer to average iron sets. We’ve absolutely never done this much to make a wedge work for average golfers.
The CBX plaque is mainly cosmetic. The CBX wedge is the best feeling wedge we’ve ever made in my opinion (I’m a 15 handicap) and it’ due to the sweet spot being nearer to the center of the impact zone and the wider v-sole.

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#77 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:08 PM

View PostOptimus-Par, on 06 September 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

1.  Is the black portion of the badge behind the word Cleveland, an elastomer type material designed to improved feel?
It is a TPU badge but it’s mostly cosmetic. It hides some weight shifting in that pocket that it covers. The outstanding feel of the wedge is driven by feel balancing and the v-sole’s superior turf interaction.


2.  Does the v-sole grind offer any versatility with regards to opening up the clubface for various touch shots or flop shots?
The main thing that lets you open the wedge face and hit those types of shots is the shape of the grind at the heel. We’ve kept the heel sole width of the CBX wedge nearly the same as our tour-style wedge, which lets you open it up nearly as easily.


3.  Was the decision to go with only a v-sole grind based on who the target player is for these wedges, meaning not a player concerned with what grind is and what it can do for them?
Correct. For the average player, I liken bounce and grind fitting to putting your car into “sport” mode or “eco” mode. The performance changes, but if you really want sport mode, buy a sports car, and if you want eco mode, buy a hybrid. The big performance changes from getting the right model. We think average golfers should play the CBX wedge and they will see their scores improve as compared to playing a blade style, less forgiving wedge. Better players might be able to capture much more performance benefits from grind-fitting.

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#78 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:10 PM

View PostJimmy Mac, on 06 September 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

How much does a cavity back wedge affect spin and distance. Full shots versus chips.

I love the idea of a more consistent feel throughout my set (play cavity back irons). But I also am a bit worried about losing the feel aspect around the green.

You will not lose any spin performance going from and RTX wedges to the CBX wedge with the RTX face tech included in both lines.  In all of our amatuer player testing the CBX wedges have tested well for feel due to the improvement in feel balancing technology.

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#79 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:11 PM

View PostJPW75, on 06 September 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

Can you explain how the CBX design helps players from various lies (deep rough, soft/firm sand, hardpan, etc.) versus more traditional wedge designs?

The player for the CBX wedge is most likely not changing his shot significantly from one condition to another. This player is trying to make as clean contact as possible, but occasionally hits a little behind the ball and sacrifices yardage. The sole is designed to be consistent for these miss-hits in all conditions.  The Dual V sole provides the bounce to not dig in the turf, but also the relief to maintain speed through the various conditions. Traditional wedges will try to do similar, but at the level of forgiveness needed for these players it’s not enough.

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#80 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:12 PM

View Postking6, on 06 September 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

How did. you test the forgiveness of the wedges? How is the dispersion in full and half swings in terms of spin and shot length?

We use many different tests to measure wedge forgiveness.  Initially, we use computer impact simulation and robot testing to understand how the CG properties of each initial concept will affect the dispersion area of impacts all over the face. We then begin to player testing on full shots and shorter shots from a variety of lies and measure the performance in terms of strokes gained and dispersion. Player testing allows us to understand the forgiveness of the entire club design because it incorporates both head CG properties and sole design into the performance testing.


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#81 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:14 PM

View Posttider992010, on 06 September 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

In looking at most wedge designs, not much has changed over the past several years.  A few model numbers here and a little bounce there.  Why has technology in wedges fallen behind the other clubs even though most golfers may hit them several times more than other irons during a round?

It’s mostly been about the focus of design.  Wedges have seen significant improvement in face technology and center of gravity control in the last several years.  As far as design it’s just hard to break the mold.  It’s such a finesse shot that requires confidence that it’s been hard to suggest large design changes to tour players in particular.  It’s also the case the most companies have been designing towards tour players only, thus limiting design iteration.  Opening these theories and dedicating the game improvement player needs has allowed us to open the range of design with the CBX wedges.

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#82 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:16 PM

View Posthammertime1515, on 06 September 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to do a Q&A regarding your new wedges! I have 2 questions for you!
1. As a scratch golfer, could I gain an advantage playing the CBX wedge as a lower lofter wedge such as a 46 or 50 degree?
2. As someone who loves the RTX 3 wedges, how do the CBX compare in regards to the feel and spin of the RTX 3 wedges?
Thanks again!

With the CBX wedge you’ll get the same spin performance you’re receiving with RTX-3 wedges.  If you are using those wedges for full shots primarily and could use a little help with forgiveness and keeping a tighter dispersion pattern on the green, then it would be worth considering CBX even as a scratch player.  If you use your 46 or 50 around the greens or for other particular shot types than you could limit yourself at your abilities.

As for spin the same face technology appears in both RTX-3 and CBX, so spin will be very similar.  Again, as a scratch golfer you may not see differences in feel if you’re hitting the sweet spot and doing so consistently.  But if you struggle with occasional distance loss on off center hits or occasional dig a little more than you’d like, the CBX would provide some benefits.

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#83 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:17 PM

View Postlspky_muskie, on 06 September 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

How was the decision made to go with a single grind and bounce type for each loft offered?

I'm a 16 handicap, and I know my short game is not consistent enough from one swing to the next to know if a specific grind and bounce are helping or hurting me.

Selecting a grind can be a painstaking process. We know that and we wanted to make this decision easier for the CBX wedge. The Dual V-Sole Grind is the big dial that will add value to a golfers game. Fine tuning the bounce/grind options won’t add a ton of value for this type of golfer and will just add doubt, as you have pointed out, that you are playing the right grind.

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#84 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:19 PM

View PostPINSEEKER72, on 06 September 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

How would you compare the CBX to the Smart Sole in regards to ease of use getting out of a bunker?

If you’re a 20 handicap or higher, the Smart Sole is really going to be a game changer for you. For the average golfer, who has some skill from the bunker, they’ll be more similar and the CBX will offer some more flexibility in being able to open the face up more.

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#85 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:20 PM

View PostJimmy Mac, on 07 September 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

I would love to try these wedges out ... they look gorgeous. Yes, counter to so many I actually like the optics of a cavity back - it inspires confidence.

My question is: I get the advantage of a cavity back in a full swing (or close to it). Given the lesser amount of force in most wedge shots (chips/pitches), is there enough energy imparted for the cavity back to really offer an advantage as far as forgiveness is concerned? Does your testing show the face really flexes in a different manner than with a more traditional wedge design?

Love the question. Only in a forum like this do we get to really nerd out like this. A cavity back wedge is forgiving directly because of the cavity (higher MOI head) but also indirectly (we can take weight out of the face and use it to widen the sole). If you think about taking a blade wedge and making the sole wider, the head is going to get heavier and heavier as you widen that sole. You have to remove weight from somewhere to balance out that addition in the sole. In this wedge, we’ve removed weight from the rear of the head, making it cavity back. So...a cavity back wedge is more forgiving than a blade style wedge on chips and pitches, but mainly due to it having a wider sole and not digging as much. It is also more forgiving because a cavity back wedge allows us to shift the CG closer to the center of the face, so more of your chips are being hit near the sweet spot. It’s too complex to explain this in a commercial or to an average golfer, so all we say is “cavity back wedges are more forgiving.”


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#86 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:22 PM

View Postjlummus94, on 07 September 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

Do you believe that the heavier shaft for wedges allow for amateurs to really swing down on the ball to avoid hitting thin shots?

Wedges do benefit from heavier shafts than the rest of their set.  As you mentioned it helps them control their swing and it helps bring in some more consistency.  However, with game improvement irons getting lighter the difference between wedges and irons is growing wider.  After some point it becomes a difficult transition for players to feel comfortable with, it's too disconnected.  So we’ve lightened the shaft with the DG115 shaft in order to keep with the game improvement irons.

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#87 timbo08

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:22 PM

View PostCleveland_Golf, on 07 September 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

View Posttimbo08, on 05 September 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

Do you still recommend CBX for someone who doesn't use all of their wedges for full swings?  For example, my 60 is pretty much only used inside of 40 yards.  Would I be better served to go with the RTX 3.0 or can I still benefit from some of the features of the CBX?

It depends how you use your wedges. If you’re a player who opens the face a lot and needs maximum versatility, then the RTX-3 might be a better option for you. But if you find yourself hitting full shots/pitches and you open the face occasionally, then you’re a CBX guy. If you’re a player who struggles with consistency and distance control, the CBX wedge will help you immensely. Even on those short shots around the green, you’ll see more consistency with the CBX. The CBX is a good middle ground for those looking for something with added forgiveness without trading in a ton of versatility to get it.

Thanks for the reply, I think the CBX might be more suited!  Can you still open up the CBX a bit on those occasions when you need to or is it pretty much just a squared faced type of pitch/chip club?

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#88 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:23 PM

View PostHackinNut, on 07 September 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

It seems to me the leading edge of these are not quite as rounded as on the RTX 3. I like a more square leading edge ... is this the case?  
.

Compared to RTX-3, there is a similar amount of  “smile” in the leading edge. In the lower lofted wedges like your PW or GW, the leading edge is a tad straighter, but for the most part the leading edge is very similar to RTX-3.

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#89 Cleveland_Golf

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:25 PM

View PostHackinNut, on 07 September 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Who's vision was it to take Cleveland down this path to pursue this demographic of golfer in the wedge lineup?  Wedges up to this point have been forged solid back vs now the cavity back GI irons for the "hacker"



The CBX wedge is designed for golfers with handicaps of around 10-20, but even some single digit and scratch players are using them effectively. The average handicap in the US is around 14. More than 80% of golfers play cavity back irons and should play cavity back wedges. In other words, the CBX wedge is for MOST golfers out there. I wouldn’t call that market segment “hackers,” I’d say we are making the best wedges in the world for average golfers. We also make the best-selling game improvement wedge in the Smart Sole, and the RTX3 blade is pretty darn good too. Cleveland Golf’s vision is to make the best short-game equipment for all golfers, rather than making one model and telling everyone it will work for them.

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#90 Jimmy Mac

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:40 PM

View PostCleveland_Golf, on 07 September 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

View PostJimmy Mac, on 07 September 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

I would love to try these wedges out ... they look gorgeous. Yes, counter to so many I actually like the optics of a cavity back - it inspires confidence.

My question is: I get the advantage of a cavity back in a full swing (or close to it). Given the lesser amount of force in most wedge shots (chips/pitches), is there enough energy imparted for the cavity back to really offer an advantage as far as forgiveness is concerned? Does your testing show the face really flexes in a different manner than with a more traditional wedge design?

Love the question. Only in a forum like this do we get to really nerd out like this. A cavity back wedge is forgiving directly because of the cavity (higher MOI head) but also indirectly (we can take weight out of the face and use it to widen the sole). If you think about taking a blade wedge and making the sole wider, the head is going to get heavier and heavier as you widen that sole. You have to remove weight from somewhere to balance out that addition in the sole. In this wedge, we’ve removed weight from the rear of the head, making it cavity back. So...a cavity back wedge is more forgiving than a blade style wedge on chips and pitches, but mainly due to it having a wider sole and not digging as much. It is also more forgiving because a cavity back wedge allows us to shift the CG closer to the center of the face, so more of your chips are being hit near the sweet spot. It’s too complex to explain this in a commercial or to an average golfer, so all we say is “cavity back wedges are more forgiving.”

Love the answer. Thanks for the enlightenment.


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