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Brandel: The Best Putters Hit Slightly Downward


66 replies to this topic

#61 Holy Moses

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:06 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 31 October 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 31 October 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

View PostHarleyweedwhacks, on 31 October 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

I'm probably the only one here who agrees with the notion that hitting level to down on putts is the way to do it properly. If I'm hitting putts well, I can hear a slight skid on the first four feet of the putt, and that's due to backspin. If you have any loft on your putter at all, whether it be 2 degrees, or 4 degrees, it will create backspin on all of your putts because there's loft as a general rule. If your putter has no loft, you can usually get a pure roll, but most putters have some degree of loft to ensure the putt is hit with some degree of backspin.

The reason I say it's optimal is because on any green, the ball will sit down slightly into the grass, whether you see it or not. It's very slight, but enough to call for loft on a putter, and the backspin gets the ball out of the depression and rolling afterwards. This is the reason for a very slight downward hit. And we're not talking even a whole degree here, maybe a half a degree. If you try to hit down on a putt you'll naturally have 3 to 4 degrees of down (maybe less) so you really just don't strike the ball pure at all. A level blow with the putter, with some loft, is optimal.

I get why you need loft, but I always thought that you wanted to hit up on a putt so that a ball stops skidding ASAP.

You do

And hitting down on the ball below the equator will only increase this skidding, right?

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#62 iteachgolf

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:12 PM

View PostHoly Moses, on 31 October 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 31 October 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 31 October 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

View PostHarleyweedwhacks, on 31 October 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

I'm probably the only one here who agrees with the notion that hitting level to down on putts is the way to do it properly. If I'm hitting putts well, I can hear a slight skid on the first four feet of the putt, and that's due to backspin. If you have any loft on your putter at all, whether it be 2 degrees, or 4 degrees, it will create backspin on all of your putts because there's loft as a general rule. If your putter has no loft, you can usually get a pure roll, but most putters have some degree of loft to ensure the putt is hit with some degree of backspin.

The reason I say it's optimal is because on any green, the ball will sit down slightly into the grass, whether you see it or not. It's very slight, but enough to call for loft on a putter, and the backspin gets the ball out of the depression and rolling afterwards. This is the reason for a very slight downward hit. And we're not talking even a whole degree here, maybe a half a degree. If you try to hit down on a putt you'll naturally have 3 to 4 degrees of down (maybe less) so you really just don't strike the ball pure at all. A level blow with the putter, with some loft, is optimal.

I get why you need loft, but I always thought that you wanted to hit up on a putt so that a ball stops skidding ASAP.

You do

And hitting down on the ball below the equator will only increase this skidding, right?

Hitting down will increase skidding or if you delofted it as well will cause the ball to bounce

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#63 Holy Moses

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:13 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 31 October 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Posted Image

This is one of the pros I teach as an example.  Ball is launching out of its depression with immediate topspine (top still is from SAM) and can see in bottom photo (using Flightscope to track roll of putt) the ball had zero skid.

This happens because even though there is loft on the putter (both static and dynamic at impact) the rise angle at impact is greater than the effective/dynamic loft at impact.  This creates forward/top spin

From what you have seen and tested, do the Yes! grooves, TaylorMade‘s Pure Roll, the Nike Polymetal grooves, or Callaway’s Microhinge inserts lead to topspin right away and more putts made?
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#64 iteachgolf

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:24 AM

View PostHoly Moses, on 31 October 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 31 October 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Posted Image

This is one of the pros I teach as an example.  Ball is launching out of its depression with immediate topspine (top still is from SAM) and can see in bottom photo (using Flightscope to track roll of putt) the ball had zero skid.

This happens because even though there is loft on the putter (both static and dynamic at impact) the rise angle at impact is greater than the effective/dynamic loft at impact.  This creates forward/top spin

From what you have seen and tested, do the Yes! grooves, TaylorMade‘s Pure Roll, the Nike Polymetal grooves, or Callaway’s Microhinge inserts lead to topspin right away and more putts made?

Grooves can affect spin, in my experience the yes grooves actually make the ball go more offline at times.  Grooved putters have a larger affect of feel and make putters feel softer

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#65 Holy Moses

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 04:12 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 01 November 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

View PostHoly Moses, on 31 October 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 31 October 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Posted Image

This is one of the pros I teach as an example.  Ball is launching out of its depression with immediate topspine (top still is from SAM) and can see in bottom photo (using Flightscope to track roll of putt) the ball had zero skid.

This happens because even though there is loft on the putter (both static and dynamic at impact) the rise angle at impact is greater than the effective/dynamic loft at impact.  This creates forward/top spin

From what you have seen and tested, do the Yes! grooves, TaylorMade's Pure Roll, the Nike Polymetal grooves, or Callaway's Microhinge inserts lead to topspin right away and more putts made?

Grooves can affect spin, in my experience the yes grooves actually make the ball go more offline at times.  Grooved putters have a larger affect of feel and make putters feel softer

I recently ran across an interview that Golf.com or Golf Digest had with Ping putting engineers. Ping said that grooves that add topspin don't help you sink more putts. I wanted your input on it. If anyone can find that article, I wouldn't mind linking it here.

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#66 Swisstrader98

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:58 PM

View Postrangersgoalie, on 26 October 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 28 August 2017 - 06:00 AM, said:

View Postdan360, on 27 August 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Forward press.  

People who gush all over about the Miura KM350 yet don't know who George Low is.   Wizard 600 people.  

One of the best ever with knowing how to teach the flatstick.  

Dave Stockton.   Forward press.  

Cmon people, really.
And Stockton doesn't hit down on it at all. If anything his students hit up on it more than average.  Forward press/shaft lean doesn't mean hitting down.  Two totally different things


For me, and I mean me only, I worked with Stockton and he wanted me moving down through the ball and a spot in front of it

No way being argumentative, just what I worked on with him, I haven't watched him work with anybody else

I also worked with Stockton, granted only for a day during a clinic but was a bit of a waste of time.

I putt left hand low and he says “I can’t work with that”. His other big tip was not to take a practice swing which also did nothing for me. Then his son put on an impressive sand play demo which was cool to watch but again learned nothing from I️t.

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#67 PreppySlapCut

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:25 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 26 October 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

View Postrangersgoalie, on 26 October 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 28 August 2017 - 06:00 AM, said:

View Postdan360, on 27 August 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Forward press.  

People who gush all over about the Miura KM350 yet don't know who George Low is.   Wizard 600 people.  

One of the best ever with knowing how to teach the flatstick.  

Dave Stockton.   Forward press.  

Cmon people, really.
And Stockton doesn't hit down on it at all. If anything his students hit up on it more than average.  Forward press/shaft lean doesn't mean hitting down.  Two totally different things


For me, and I mean me only, I worked with Stockton and he wanted me moving down through the ball and a spot in front of it

No way being argumentative, just what I worked on with him, I haven't watched him work with anybody else

But we’re you actually?  A ton of guys feel like they are hitting down that aren’t.  

Kinda like Utley says he has no shaft lean at impact yet he has quite a bit.
I actually have to feel I’m hitting down on it to keep my putter swinging on plane.  If I don’t I start dragging the handle left and bad things happen.  Classic feel vs. real situation.
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