[MizunoMac]

Say you were to move to either South Carolina or Florida, which would be the better state to live in and work/play golf in. Working towards being a superintendent and planning a move sometime in the next year or so.

[BENNYSUPREME]

hands down for me florida, where would you be able to go?

[MizunoMac]

I would be able to go to either, why do you say florida?

[DRGJR72]

Florida (with assumptions)

I was a pro in FLA for 8 years. It is intense as the weather plays massive tricks on the courses....although I am sure SC has troublesome weather as well.

So many courses and high end courses that are available for you to get a job and make a name for yourself. It all depends on what you are looking for. I have never been to SC for an extended period of time, but it was beautiful.

Just depends on the type of lifestyle you are looking to lead. FLA seems to be more out of control, where SC seems to be more subdued in certain aspects.

Either place is win win. Two great choices.

DG

[Skully188]

Can't speak for Florida, but lived in Greenville, SC for 2 years in the 90s. It was a real nice place to live, in the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains and a lot going on. The weather in Greenville was varied, had snow while I was there that was gone that afternoon, and while it got Sahara hot for a few weeks every summer, late in the day there was generally a breeze coming from the mountains.

It is less than 2 hours to Atlanta or Charlotte if you need a bigger city and Asheville, NC. is a little over an hour away and in a real nice area. Also can get to Charleston, which is a awesome town in less than 4 hours, so you are at the beach. There is a lot more variety and live-ability in SC over Fla. for me anyway. Also for golf, you could check out the Myrtle Beach, Kiawah or Hilton Head areas.

[mljones99]

I've lived in Charlotte since 2002 and have really enjoyed living in the Carolinas. In SC you have Kiawah, Myrtle Beach, and Charleston for some really great golf. Depending on where you lived in SC, Pinehurst wouldn't be too bad of a drive either. And like someone else mentioned Atlanta and Charlotte aren't too far away to get your big city fix. the mountains are a short drive away, as is the beach.

[Pinehurst1999]

Charlotte and Raleigh are great places to live, but they are in NC...SC is worthless unless you are next to the ocean. Seriously, just come visit a the dead towns of Columbia, Florence, and Greenville. I am not trying to hurt feelings, but SC is horrible unless it is the beach. Stay in Florida.

[Clemson]

That has to be the most absurd post I have ever seen in all of my days on internet forums.

[Pinehurst1999]

Obviously I stepped on your toes, and I am sure that there are nice areas of every state in the US...like the beach of SC. My company has offices in all the SC 'major' cities and they are run down, like Columbia. Greenville is certinly nice...but the questiin was weather to choose Florida or SC, and I have spent a lot of time in both, and SC is LARGELY garbage except for the coast...and even then, many people HATE Myrtle Beach for what it has become. How about the recent study of the safest states for kids in the country, based on crime rate, condition of playgrounds/do they even exist, and my other factors...shocker, SC was 48 or 49th on the list.

Even the morning radio show in NC that listen to constantly bashes SC for more rebel flags than US flags and for it not being a nice place to live.

Disclaimer:::::::I am sure that there are nice areas of Greenville/Spartanburg, Columbia, and the mountains...but I promise that you will drive through at least a dozen rebel flag flying trailer parks to get there. Again...this is just my OPINION, like the original post asked for...based on my experience and my research of the state, sorry if it offends.

[20something]

Either one has pros or cons (of course).

Florida has no state income tax but a lot of blue hairs driving around. But Florida, as a state, was built for play. Can't imagine working there.

South Carolina is a great place regardless of what NCNickent says. The lowcountry is a particular favorite but there are nice places inland too. As stated before, you're close to beach, big cities and mountains.

[MizunoMac]

NCNickentGuy , on Mar 31 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

Charlotte and Raleigh are great places to live, but they are in NC...SC is worthless unless you are next to the ocean. Seriously, just come visit a the dead towns of Columbia, Florence, and Greenville. I am not trying to hurt feelings, but SC is horrible unless it is the beach. Stay in Florida.

Are you saying NC is a better state to live than SC?

Maybe i posed the wrong question, what is the best state for golf (work and play)?

[birdieba]

Florida, without a doubt. I have lived here my entire life. I am from Tampa area. Ideally, you want to get a job at one of the nice private clubs, they pay the best. Only downside is cost of living. Much cheaper up in South Carolina. But, from a career standpoint, Florida will probably give you the best opportunity.

[Pinehurst1999]

MizunoMac, on Apr 1 2008, 02:00 PM, said:

NCNickentGuy , on Mar 31 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

Charlotte and Raleigh are great places to live, but they are in NC...SC is worthless unless you are next to the ocean. Seriously, just come visit a the dead towns of Columbia, Florence, and Greenville. I am not trying to hurt feelings, but SC is horrible unless it is the beach. Stay in Florida.

Are you saying NC is a better state to live than SC?

Maybe i posed the wrong question, what is the best state for golf (work and play)?

SC has the great beaches for play...but as far as work goes, NC hands down. The top 3 markets in the Southeast are Raleigh, Tampa, and Charlotte. Raleigh and the entire Research Triangle Area (Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill+Cary) has an AMAZING housing market, some of the best public schools in the nation, the highest number of PhD's per capita in the entire nation, and a low crime rate. Raleigh has private courses that are $30,000 initiation, and really nothing lower for private course options. The public courses are great quality and very cheap compared to the public courses of Charlotte or Florida.

Charlotte is much bigger (speaking of the downtown area), and includes the Lake Norman and Lake Wylie areas as well. Tons of affordable private courses to go along with the SUPER Expensive private courses. The housing market is also amazing...the number are a little down right now, but only due to other people who want to me here not being able to sell at other parts of the country. The housing is strong here and values do not have gigantic peak, bot they never have deep valleys like some areas of Florida. There is a higher crime rate that you would expect since it is a HUGH city, but the downtown is very nice and safe.

I lived in Raleigh for 8 years and only left for a promotion since my company offered to move my family to Charlotte. We have been here for a year and half and I will NEVER move out of NC unless I am forced to move. NC is a much better option as far as economies, housing markets, crime rates, and education...compared to SC. I would only consider leaving NC for the Florida area, around Tampa/Orlando, but do not plan on that happening.

I would recommend Raleigh first, but Raleigh and Charlotte have much different things to offer. Raleigh is only about 1:45 minutes from the beach, best housing, top public schools in the nation......Charlotte has the Lake Norman area which is like its own city in the summer (lots of waterfront restaurants), better downtown life (although Raleigh is not bad, just smaller), and better golf options in Charlotte.

AGAIN...Just opinions based on some FACTS. Don't mean to offend anyone.

[kmgreensman]

MizunoMac,

I am a former Golf Course Superintendent and now work in sales in the turf business. I think you can't go wrong with either place. Myrtle Beach, Charleston, and Hilton Head areas have tons of courses! Florida has courses all over the place too. Either place you will have plenty of opportunity. The one thing you need to think about is what type of grasses you want to manage. If you work in SC you will have a chance to learn to manage Bentgrass greens. (On the coast of SC the majority are Bermudagrass though.) Florida really only has Bermudagrass Greens. Bentgrass is much more challenging in the heat of the South and takes much more attention during the summer to keep them alive. If you have a Bentgrass background, it does open more doors for you. Many with Bentgrass backgrounds get hired to manage Bermudagrass greens but it usually doesn't go the other way.

In this industry, you may end up working in both areas. You have to be willing to move to get better opportunities. To be a career Superintendent you will probably work in many different areas. The average at one course for a Superintendent is only about 5 years. If you are willing to relocate you will do well. Good Luck with your choice and you will love the life of a Turf Professional!

[MizunoMac]

kmgreensman, on Apr 2 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

MizunoMac,

I am a former Golf Course Superintendent and now work in sales in the turf business. I think you can't go wrong with either place. Myrtle Beach, Charleston, and Hilton Head areas have tons of courses! Florida has courses all over the place too. Either place you will have plenty of opportunity. The one thing you need to think about is what type of grasses you want to manage. If you work in SC you will have a chance to learn to manage Bentgrass greens. (On the coast of SC the majority are Bermudagrass though.) Florida really only has Bermudagrass Greens. Bentgrass is much more challenging in the heat of the South and takes much more attention during the summer to keep them alive. If you have a Bentgrass background, it does open more doors for you. Many with Bentgrass backgrounds get hired to manage Bermudagrass greens but it usually doesn't go the other way.

In this industry, you may end up working in both areas. You have to be willing to move to get better opportunities. To be a career Superintendent you will probably work in many different areas. The average at one course for a Superintendent is only about 5 years. If you are willing to relocate you will do well. Good Luck with your choice and you will love the life of a Turf Professional!

Why do Superintendents stay at one course for only 5 years?

[kmgreensman]

It is a combination of things. Golf Course Supers are very career motivated. They are always looking for a better situation. Better salary and benefits, better maintenance budget, better crew, better equipment.... When they move then their position comes open and that job gets 100s of resumes because it would be an upgrade for another. Then the same thing happens for that guys job.

After a few years, members of owners start thinking they can do better with another superintendent in place. They go to another course and see something they are doing and start saying "why can't we be like them and do.......?" They don't consider that course may have twice the maintenance budget as your course. I have seen some REALLY good supers get fired. It is just part of the business. But other courses are doing the same thing so there are jobs to get out there. You just may have to move.

I sent you a reply to the PM going into more detail.

[Parzinski]

seeing you asked about FLA and SC.....


Fla - you have one season - for the most part...hot and hotter...

SC - All four seasons - with a very mild winter

Fla - basiclly same terrain throughout the state

SC - extremely varied - from coastal gems like Kiawah - to mountain gems like the Cliffs and places in between - like Musgrove Mill - all top 100's in one list or another - an all completley different styles

Fla - is crowded everywhere

SC - still plenty of "country" left.

[generalpatton]

I've lived and worked in Charleston SC for 2 years. Prior to moving here, I traveled to the SC low country for pleasure off and on for 15 years before that. I've found that living in SC is not nearly as nice as I thought it would be after visiting here for so long. Don't get me wrong, it's wonderful to be so close to so many absolutely gorgeous places BUT: SC is an expensive place to live with 7% state income tax, property taxes that aren't any bargain and real-estate that borders on the un-affordable now....especially anywhere close to the coast. Many areas in SC are way behind the times when it comes to moderately priced basic dining and shopping and the crime rate isn't anything to write home about. Wages here are surprisingly low too, especially when considering the high cost of living.


The trailers and trashy homes don't particularly bother me because that's just the way it is most anywhere you go in the South. I spent almost a week in Alabama recently and found things much worse than we have it in SC for instance. The one good thing about SC is that it's a state that has it's future in front of it still. The state has done a good job attracting industry and there are many companies who are opening operations here or relocating here. It's also becoming to the retirement industry what Florida was 15 to 20 years ago. Because of this, many of the things I mentioned I don't like about the state may change over time.....

[kmgreensman]

generalpatton, on Apr 3 2008, 09:13 AM, said:

I've lived and worked in Charleston SC for 2 years. Prior to moving here, I traveled to the SC low country for pleasure off and on for 15 years before that. I've found that living in SC is not nearly as nice as I thought it would be after visiting here for so long. Don't get me wrong, it's wonderful to be so close to so many absolutely gorgeous places BUT: SC is an expensive place to live with 7% state income tax, property taxes that aren't any bargain and real-estate that borders on the un-affordable now....especially anywhere close to the coast. Many areas in SC are way behind the times when it comes to moderately priced basic dining and shopping and the crime rate isn't anything to write home about. Wages here are surprisingly low too, especially when considering the high cost of living.


The trailers and trashy homes don't particularly bother me because that's just the way it is most anywhere you go in the South. I spent almost a week in Alabama recently and found things much worse than we have it in SC for instance. The one good thing about SC is that it's a state that has it's future in front of it still. The state has done a good job attracting industry and there are many companies who are opening operations here or relocating here. It's also becoming to the retirement industry what Florida was 15 to 20 years ago. Because of this, many of the things I mentioned I don't like about the state may change over time.....

Yes I forgot about the Income Tax in SC and not in FLa. Good Point.

[Konrad]

Quote

BUT: SC is an expensive place to live with 7% state income tax, property taxes that aren't any bargain and real-estate that borders on the un-affordable now....especially anywhere close to the coast.

Well I'm not sure where you lived before, and I'm very far from an expert (still under 18), but we moved to North Myrtle Beach from Mass. and our cost of living was cut in half.

As far as the courses go, I can attest to the fact that
1.) Bent greens are fairly common down here and the courses that have nice bent greens often command a lot of $$$ to play and are generally regarded as nice courses.
2.) A Super does tend to have a quick career at their courses. At the course I live at, they've had 6 Supers in 18 years so it's not exactly a long-term job. If people complain about the conditions and the course is losing money, you're out of the job. Golf courses down here are always looking for better conditions each year while also cutting operating costs. You do the math, and it doesn't work out very well.

[generalpatton]

Quote

Well I'm not sure where you lived before, and I'm very far from an expert (still under 18), but we moved to North Myrtle Beach from Mass. and our cost of living was cut in half

I moved to SC from Texas which is one of the most inexpensive states to live in I think: no state income tax, moderate property taxes and real estate that's still very much a bargain. Plus, wages are higher there for comparable jobs. I suppose it's all a matter of perspective but after doing my share of moves over the last 20+ years it's an aspect that definitely must be considered.

[Konrad]

Understood. I have no idea how the property taxes in Massachusetts compare to Texas.