bscinstnct, on 08 February 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:
isaacbm, on 08 February 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:
Read through some of this thread. I'm actually quite surprised at some people's responses.
Almost all of the "scratch" golfers that I spend time with are actual tournament scratches. I actually think
That it would be more likely that any given one of them would break 80 before they shot over 85. 85 is really bad! I mean you can have 3 doubles, 7 bogeys and only 1 birdie and still break 85. It's almost never that a scratch golfer will go an entire round without at least one birdie...
So right now I'm currently a +3.2 in the computer. Does that mean my number is 82? I know that's not the scenario that the OP originally put out there but still!
This is still just a golf course people.
I was particularly interested in the exchange between Obee and Lowheal... i'd take OBEE And the "under" And give 2-1 odds on $10,000.
In my opinion Torrey Pines was it least two full shots harder than Augusta at the us open. And the LA country club has the potential to be the hardest U.S. Open venue in the last 15 years. The place is a monster!
And one more thing: why do people think the caddywould make such a difference?? I could probably draw you an accurate depiction of the green complexes on 15 holes at Augusta and I've never even played there! Having a decent yardage book would make a difference but honestly a lot of the times if you're not used to playing with a caddy, it's just something that takes you out of your natural element and rhythm. Might cost you shots!
isaacb with the dope avatar! How's it all goin?
Hey, do you think you and the tournament scratches you play with are as good or even better than the amateurs who play in the Master's?
I just looked at the am scoring for the past few years and, on quick review, looks like scores average in the high 70s. You see guys who will shoot rounds over 80 but didn't see any over 85. And they get some low rounds in there too.
I've played tournament golf with four amateurs who have played in the masters via winning the US Mid-Am and the US PubLinks. I play with those types of players all the time. When I play well and they play well, they beat me by a few strokes a round. When I play well and they play meh, we are even. When I play poorly, all bets are off. They dust me. One thing about this type of player: When they are competing, they are playing or practicing 6 or 7 days a week. When I'm able to play/practice 4 or 5 days a week, I can play golf a bit. If I can't play or practice (like now with my new job), I can shoot a verifiable 66 one day (like two weekends ago in team play) and I can shoot 84 the next weekend.
But we are talking about being prepared. About playing and practicing and being ready to play golf -- not about our crappy rounds when we aren't playing golf.
LowHeel and his +4.5 says his target is 76, but a tournament scratch is not gonna break 85. Please explain that math to me. Your +4.5 becomes a +6 at Augusta due to the way slope works against plus handicappers, so the spread is six legit shots on a tough course for a +4.5 versus a scratch player. But somehow there's no way a scratch can break 85? So you're saying Augusta should be rated 81.8(?) and sloped 185(?)? LOL. Other than two years ago when it was cold as can be and windy as all get out, Augusta has played tough, but never stupid, unrealistic tough. Never. Stop cherry picking one year at Augusta to try to prove the point that Augusta is the toughest course out there. It's not. It's tough. But it's easier than Torrey South for the Farmers (not even the US Open!):
2017 Masters: 73.88. Keep in mind that August is NOT a full-field PGA Tour event. Make this a full-field PGA Tour event and remove the exemptions for players who normally would not be in a full-field PGA Tour event and the stroke average comes down a bit. Final two rounds average score (only players making the cut): 72.18.
2018 Farmers: Torrey South Course, Final Two Rounds (when only players who make the cut are playing the South ONLY): 73.49
Torrey South plays tougher than Augusta, but let's be nice and call them even in terms of difficulty -- just for argument's sake.
Now I am NOT saying that Torrey South is easy. It ain't. It's a flippin' BEAST. There are several par fours I can't reach in two under the wrong conditions nowadays. But I shot 78 there five years ago the day after the Farmers. In tournament conditions. Same pins. Same tees. Early in the morning, long(ish), wet rough. It was cold and the course was covered in dew. I'm a shot(ish) worse on average now than I was then, but I ain't 9 shots worse. Geez.
Look. I suck. I'm 50, fat, and I get a tee spot (or two) and one or two (or even three) a side from legit PGA and Web.com tour pros when we play for money. Sometimes they beat me. Sometimes I beat them. The point is, these are fair bets. They are playing for money against other pros when we play. They shoot what they always shoot on a tour-quality course (which my home course is): 65 - 74 (and sometimes higher at my course if the conditions are especially tough and sometimes lower, if they have a great day -- Rickie's best there is 62, one off the course record of 61 by Si Woo Kim). They are about 8 shots better than I am, give or take a bit. They average 72ish at Augusta and Torrey. I'd average 80 - 82...
And get my butt KICKED
by an average of 32 shots over four rounds of golf by these guys!!
I'm a 0.9 right now. I commute 5 hours each day to and from work. I'm playing less golf than I've ever played in my life, and if I played Augusta right now, I might shoot 107. But come the tournament season, I'll be back where I always am: 0 to +2, which makes my average handicap for the whole season right around zero. And if anyone wants to tee it up with me at Torrey South for a "break 85" bet, just name the date, and I'll be there (as long as it's April through October!) LOL
One last thing: I'm also carrying the banner here for legit scratch guys who are unwilling to post for fear of being "that guy" (a guy like me! LOL!). You're welcome, guys!!! ;-)
Edited by Obee, 17 February 2018 - 12:38 AM.