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Could a Scratch Golfer break 85 at Augusta?


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#691 Dawggolf

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:13 PM

View Postgolfer929, on 09 November 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

View PostNorth Texas, on 09 November 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

View PostRobotDoctor, on 09 November 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

View PostDawggolf, on 09 November 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

If WRX pool is in need of a 5 handicap thinking that he could break 90 at Augusta, I'll volunteer myself.

Count me in for the 90 pool at ANGC.  That's two of the foursome!!!

I'm in as a 10 who thinks they could break 100.
As the OP of this thread, I will volunteer myself to round out this foursome! Lol
Ok, so who is going to set this thing up?

Edited by Dawggolf, 09 November 2017 - 09:15 PM.


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#692 Shilgy

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:47 PM

We have seemingly learned many things in this thread.
1) we had a post that said Oakmont is so difficult the best players are 1 handicaps.

2) the average score of the pros is somehow relevant to a scratch. Certainly a few of the pros each year are no longer even scratch and yet they manage. The older past champions are there for the memories.

3) a post said the 14 year old that played a couple years ago and made the cut was “the 490th ranked amateur in the world which makes him low single digits handicap” . More in the sold plus a few cap than anywhere near scratch.

4) and last! If, and perhaps it’s a big if, the suggested tournament rating at the Masters is 78.1 than the scratch could break 85. If tha course rating is accurate then you are asking a scratch to shoot within 7 strokes of his cap.
  If you are absolutely positive a scratch cannot shoot 85 then you are suggesting the tournament rating is about 88 or so. Which certainly makes all of the great tournament scores about +20 to +25 or so differentials.

Edited by Shilgy, 09 November 2017 - 09:47 PM.

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#693 WidespreadPanic

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 09:51 PM

I shot a 79 there (best friends dad was team doctor for the Falcons). One of the best ball striking rounds of my life. Obviously it wasnt set up like the Masters though.

Edited by WidespreadPanic, 09 November 2017 - 09:57 PM.

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#694 RobotDoctor

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 10:27 AM

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 09 November 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

I shot a 79 there (best friends dad was team doctor for the Falcons). One of the best ball striking rounds of my life. Obviously it wasnt set up like the Masters though.

Well done!!!  What tees did you play from?  Members tees?  And if so what was your thought when looking back at the tournament tees with regard to the course and how that might affect your score?  I’m curious to get actual feedback from anyone who has played ANGC.  Thanks!

Edited by RobotDoctor, 10 November 2017 - 10:28 AM.

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#695 Roadking2003

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:10 AM

View Postcdnglf, on 06 November 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 06 November 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 03 November 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

Perhaps you missed this:
https://www.golfdige...h-augusta-knuth

Anybody who thinks the slope for Augusta National from the tips with tournament greens is 137 is an absolute idiot.  I play slopes of 130 - 142 every week and there is no comparison to ANGC.

Might want to brush up on the definition of slope. From the article:
"I invented the rating system, taught golf associations worldwide how to use it and have rated more than 1,000 courses"

I'm quite aware of the definition of slope.  But my evaluation stands;  There is no way AGNC slope is 137.


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#696 Roadking2003

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:33 AM

View PostRobotDoctor, on 10 November 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

View PostWidespreadPanic, on 09 November 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

I shot a 79 there (best friends dad was team doctor for the Falcons). One of the best ball striking rounds of my life. Obviously it wasnt set up like the Masters though.

Well done!!!  What tees did you play from?  Members tees?  And if so what was your thought when looking back at the tournament tees with regard to the course and how that might affect your score?  I'm curious to get actual feedback from anyone who has played ANGC.  Thanks!

I played it a few years ago and shot 86.  My index was probably about 7.5 at the time.  The greens were probably running 9 or 10 and I still had two three-putts and only one one-putt for a total of 37 putts.  If the stimp was 12 or 13 I'm sure I would have had several more three-putts.

I hit 11 fairways and 7 greens. The longest putt I made was 9 feet.

The fairways were very soft and the thick overseed prevented us from getting any roll out on our drives, so it played longer than the scorecard yardage.  Here are the clubs I hit;

1: 6i
2: 9i
3: 8i
4: 4H
5: 6i
6: 6i
7: SW
8: SW
9: 8i
10: 4H
11: 9i
12: 8i
13: pitch out of trees
14: pitch out of trees
15: SW
16: 7i
17: 6i
18: 4H

Regarding your question about the back tees, some holes like #12 (10 yards) and #6 (15 yards) have very little distance between the members tees and the back tees.  Others, a huge difference like #2 (60 yards), #4 (70 yards), #8 (90 yards),  #11 (105 yards), #18 (80 yards).

Edited by Roadking2003, 14 November 2017 - 09:39 AM.


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#697 golfer07840

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 09:04 AM

View Postcdnglf, on 01 November 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

View Postjmvargas, on 01 November 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

although interesting this discussion has run it's course with the same arguments being repeated over and over again..

the naysayers are overthinking the difficulty of the course and vice-versa..

in the end the short answer is YES..

Agreed. Time to move on to fresh topics like Tiger vs Jack, blades vs cavaties, and why peter Kessler was fired.
I miss Peter Kessler. Back when the golf channel was interesting.

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#698 RobotDoctor

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 11:05 AM

View Postsharkiesj, on 19 November 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

A Callaway driver, not a Cleveland.

View Postgolfer07840, on 19 November 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

View Postcdnglf, on 01 November 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

View Postjmvargas, on 01 November 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

although interesting this discussion has run it's course with the same arguments being repeated over and over again..

the naysayers are overthinking the difficulty of the course and vice-versa..

in the end the short answer is YES..

Agreed. Time to move on to fresh topics like Tiger vs Jack, blades vs cavaties, and why peter Kessler was fired.
I miss Peter Kessler. Back when the golf channel was interesting.

I believe Peter Kessler was fired because Arnold Palmer was endorsing a Callaway driver that exceeded the COR limits and Kessler called Mr. Palmer on it during a start of the golf season interview on TGC.  Mr. Palmer didn't like the line of questioning and then Mr. Kessler doesn't work for TGC any longer.

<edited due to tagging wrong company regarding Mr. Palmer’s driver.  Effects of my health condition - OMD>

Edited by RobotDoctor, 20 November 2017 - 10:34 AM.

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#699 sharkiesj

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 10:08 PM

A Callaway driver, not a Cleveland.

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#700 RobotDoctor

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:32 AM

View Postsharkiesj, on 19 November 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

A Callaway driver, not a Cleveland.

Right!  I must have been eyeing a Cleveland Persimmon wood on some internet auction site.  :D

I will edit

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#701 KTEXAS1316

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:33 PM

I think it would all depend on putting. If you could get a feel for the greens, the ball striking on that course shouldn't be too difficult for a true scratch. Start piling on the 3-4 whacks and breaking 85 or 80 will be a serious challenge... especially with no practice round.

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#702 SurfDuffer

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 07:15 AM

Vanity scratch, legit scratch or sandbagger scratch?  Pretty wide spread in ability levels between the two extremes.  Two of the three would likely have no problem.
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#703 RobotDoctor

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:55 AM

Sandbagger scratch?   What’s that?  Someone who really is scratch but carries a handicap so they can cheat in tournaments of no consequence?  That kind of golfer goes against the very grain this Gentlemen’s game was founded on.
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#704 golfer929

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 10:19 PM

This is the friend in the original message. Augusta National should be scared of my golf game! I would not only break 85 on this chip and putt course, but break the course record. The back tees present absolutely NO CHALLENGE to me and if I ever get the opportunity to play this magnificent course, I would tear it to shreds. I have seen this course plenty of times on television. Granted, it might take a few holes to settle into the round, but nobody has the mental game and talent that I possess. The greens are a little undulated, however I have seen plenty of tricky putting surfaces in my neighborhood Putt Putt course. There is no way I would ever three putt, I don't even two putt. The only thing I know how to do is one putt. If I ever got into the Masters Tournament, players would be lining up to withdraw from the event due to fear. It would be a guarantee victory and the first of my 25 major championship victories.

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#705 Stebaird

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.


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#706 boatrightgolf7

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 04:14 AM

Depends on what type of scratch golfer were talking about right? If it's the garden variety 260 270 hitter at the 73.1 slope rating from the tips at the muni with 10.0 stimp greens and a fairly challenge tournament track then the answer is no way not from pro tees. He may have the overall game good putter hit's it well short game 7-10 not a bad player,but I just don't see it. Now if it's a young or strong guy who nails it 312 yards fairly often and a rock solid short game just struggles with his consistency then he is essentially just an average striving tour pro that could shoot 65 or 76 but break 80 all day with his power.


From the right tees a senior or weak scratch golfer who is at most a 250 hitter could break 75 at Augusta or anywhere else in warm weather. I mean have you ever seen a scratch golfer their like pro's dude they got all the short game shots and are very consistent overall,in fact the short hitting scratches are way less wild then the bomber varieties so they may even shoot a 68 on a good day again from the correct tees.

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#707 Patw215

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:31 AM

Yes. Augusta is overrated in terms of difficult

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#708 golfer929

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:10 PM

View PostStebaird, on 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.

This is the friend again. First of all we are talking about a scratch golfer, not a player with a 10 handicap. Also Luke Donald is the biggest Bum on the PGA Tour. When he travels for a tour event, he only packs for Thursday and Friday because he knows he will be on a plane Friday evening after he misses the cut. This dude should just play with the other bums on the European Tour and try and get back in the top 150 in the world. Speaking of Augusta National, Luke Donald won't be in the Masters or any other major this year because he sucks. Anyone who brings up Luke Donald in a debate, is an absolute idiot and doesn't know anything about golf or sports for that matter.

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#709 MtlJeff

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:16 PM

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostStebaird, on 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.

This is the friend again. First of all we are talking about a scratch golfer, not a player with a 10 handicap. Also Luke Donald is the biggest Bum on the PGA Tour. When he travels for a tour event, he only packs for Thursday and Friday because he knows he will be on a plane Friday evening after he misses the cut. This dude should just play with the other bums on the European Tour and try and get back in the top 150 in the world. Speaking of Augusta National, Luke Donald won't be in the Masters or any other major this year because he sucks. Anyone who brings up Luke Donald in a debate, is an absolute idiot and doesn't know anything about golf or sports for that matter.

Honest question and don't hold anything back, what do you think of Luke Donald?
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#710 Hawkeye77

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:16 PM

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostStebaird, on 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.

This is the friend again. First of all we are talking about a scratch golfer, not a player with a 10 handicap. Also Luke Donald is the biggest Bum on the PGA Tour. When he travels for a tour event, he only packs for Thursday and Friday because he knows he will be on a plane Friday evening after he misses the cut. This dude should just play with the other bums on the European Tour and try and get back in the top 150 in the world. Speaking of Augusta National, Luke Donald won't be in the Masters or any other major this year because he sucks. Anyone who brings up Luke Donald in a debate, is an absolute idiot and doesn't know anything about golf or sports for that matter.

Hand him back his computer and turn out the lights.


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#711 golfer929

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:35 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 04 February 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostStebaird, on 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.

This is the friend again. First of all we are talking about a scratch golfer, not a player with a 10 handicap. Also Luke Donald is the biggest Bum on the PGA Tour. When he travels for a tour event, he only packs for Thursday and Friday because he knows he will be on a plane Friday evening after he misses the cut. This dude should just play with the other bums on the European Tour and try and get back in the top 150 in the world. Speaking of Augusta National, Luke Donald won't be in the Masters or any other major this year because he sucks. Anyone who brings up Luke Donald in a debate, is an absolute idiot and doesn't know anything about golf or sports for that matter.

Honest question and don't hold anything back, what do you think of Luke Donald?

What do I think of Luke Donald? I think he is trash. Whenever he tees it up at the events he does get in, I already know he is going to miss the cut and I don't even need to turn on the tv. Not that they would waste camera time showing his round anyway. I will gladly give back the computer and turn out the lights because it's not worth my time to argue with someone as clueless as you. I think you should turn on your lights and find a better golfer to look up to instead of Luke (missed cut) Donald.

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#712 North Texas

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:00 PM

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 04 February 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostStebaird, on 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.

This is the friend again. First of all we are talking about a scratch golfer, not a player with a 10 handicap. Also Luke Donald is the biggest Bum on the PGA Tour. When he travels for a tour event, he only packs for Thursday and Friday because he knows he will be on a plane Friday evening after he misses the cut. This dude should just play with the other bums on the European Tour and try and get back in the top 150 in the world. Speaking of Augusta National, Luke Donald won't be in the Masters or any other major this year because he sucks. Anyone who brings up Luke Donald in a debate, is an absolute idiot and doesn't know anything about golf or sports for that matter.

Honest question and don't hold anything back, what do you think of Luke Donald?

What do I think of Luke Donald? I think he is trash. Whenever he tees it up at the events he does get in, I already know he is going to miss the cut and I don't even need to turn on the tv. Not that they would waste camera time showing his round anyway. I will gladly give back the computer and turn out the lights because it's not worth my time to argue with someone as clueless as you. I think you should turn on your lights and find a better golfer to look up to instead of Luke (missed cut) Donald.

Your dislike of Luke Donald seems to be over the top. Not being good enough to make the cut doesn't make someone "trash" so is there another reason why you think he's trash?

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#713 Golfjack

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:02 PM

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 04 February 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostStebaird, on 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.

This is the friend again. First of all we are talking about a scratch golfer, not a player with a 10 handicap. Also Luke Donald is the biggest Bum on the PGA Tour. When he travels for a tour event, he only packs for Thursday and Friday because he knows he will be on a plane Friday evening after he misses the cut. This dude should just play with the other bums on the European Tour and try and get back in the top 150 in the world. Speaking of Augusta National, Luke Donald won't be in the Masters or any other major this year because he sucks. Anyone who brings up Luke Donald in a debate, is an absolute idiot and doesn't know anything about golf or sports for that matter.

Honest question and don't hold anything back, what do you think of Luke Donald?

What do I think of Luke Donald? I think he is trash. Whenever he tees it up at the events he does get in, I already know he is going to miss the cut and I don't even need to turn on the tv. Not that they would waste camera time showing his round anyway. I will gladly give back the computer and turn out the lights because it's not worth my time to argue with someone as clueless as you. I think you should turn on your lights and find a better golfer to look up to instead of Luke (missed cut) Donald.

What a hack.  That former world number guy.  Pretty lame that he's not still holding it.  Terrible golfer.
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#714 cbbaron

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 10:55 PM

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostStebaird, on 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.

This is the friend again. First of all we are talking about a scratch golfer, not a player with a 10 handicap. Also Luke Donald is the biggest Bum on the PGA Tour. When he travels for a tour event, he only packs for Thursday and Friday because he knows he will be on a plane Friday evening after he misses the cut. This dude should just play with the other bums on the European Tour and try and get back in the top 150 in the world. Speaking of Augusta National, Luke Donald won't be in the Masters or any other major this year because he sucks. Anyone who brings up Luke Donald in a debate, is an absolute idiot and doesn't know anything about golf or sports for that matter.
Would you play Luke if he gave you 10 a side?
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#715 lowheel

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 12:52 AM

View PostPatw215, on 29 January 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

Yes. Augusta is overrated in terms of difficult

Lol. Never change wrx...


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#716 Jackhammer993

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:03 AM

If you have watched the telecast in detail each year it definitely would benefit you on the breaks of the putts and the slope of the greens. Playing from regular tees with slowed down greens I think a scratch golfer would have a great chance to break 85. Under tournament conditions from the back tees and the greens running at Tournament speed my guess is 1 out of 10 could break 85.

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#717 Bingo1976

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:05 AM

View PostJackhammer993, on 05 February 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:

If you have watched the telecast in detail each year it definitely would benefit you on the breaks of the putts and the slope of the greens. Playing from regular tees with slowed down greens I think a scratch golfer would have a great chance to break 85. Under tournament conditions from the back tees and the greens running at Tournament speed my guess is 1 out of 10 could break 85.

Off regular tees and slow greens a scratch is breaking 80 every time unless he had a dodgy pimento sandwich for lunch.
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#718 thesamwise

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:15 AM

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 04 February 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

View Postgolfer929, on 04 February 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

View PostStebaird, on 29 January 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

There was a quote from Luke Donald when asked what he thought a 10 handicapper would go round Augusta in, he said 100 shots and upwards.

This is the friend again. First of all we are talking about a scratch golfer, not a player with a 10 handicap. Also Luke Donald is the biggest Bum on the PGA Tour. When he travels for a tour event, he only packs for Thursday and Friday because he knows he will be on a plane Friday evening after he misses the cut. This dude should just play with the other bums on the European Tour and try and get back in the top 150 in the world. Speaking of Augusta National, Luke Donald won't be in the Masters or any other major this year because he sucks. Anyone who brings up Luke Donald in a debate, is an absolute idiot and doesn't know anything about golf or sports for that matter.

Honest question and don't hold anything back, what do you think of Luke Donald?

What do I think of Luke Donald? I think he is trash. Whenever he tees it up at the events he does get in, I already know he is going to miss the cut and I don't even need to turn on the tv. Not that they would waste camera time showing his round anyway. I will gladly give back the computer and turn out the lights because it's not worth my time to argue with someone as clueless as you. I think you should turn on your lights and find a better golfer to look up to instead of Luke (missed cut) Donald.

Hey man, I'm sitting here, trying to parse this, but I still can't take your temperature on Luke Donald! Lol, amirite?!

Can you please be a little more clear about your feelings toward him? You sound like a really reasonable/normal person, so I am interested to get to the bottom of this. Mahalo!

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#719 driveandputtmachine

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 10:07 AM

I played college golf at a D1 school, grew up playing a Donald Ross course with sub air that consistently ran in the 11 range of green speed and they would cut them down for the Nike event and Club championship to get them at 13 or so.  I played Augusta in the mid 90's twice, while carrying a +3.2 handicap and your friend has no chance of breaking 80 there his first time out.  When I played it, the course was a few hundred yards shorter from the tips and I shot 80 the first round and 77 the second round.  The greens were not championship speed when I played, I believe they were rolling about an 11 or so.  To be honest you are rarely (more than likely never) going to find a public course with greens that speed let alone Augusta championship speed to understand the breaks and how much farther the ball rolls out on them.  There isn't a single course in Atlanta that keeps their greens at Augusta championship speed all year round and we have some ridiculous courses here.  I have heard estimates of 13-15 for the championship green speed at AN.  With the slopes I am betting on the 13 area.  Oakmont runs in the 14 area but their greens are much less severe than AN.

The one thing that is not often mentioned are the lies you get in the fairway.  I had one or two mostly level lies in the fairway each round I played there, which is a way bigger deal than most people realize.

Until you get a stimpmeter or make your own and say that you play on greens that roll a 12 it is a HUGE lie.  I knew the green speeds I grew on growing up as the greenskeeper would post them each morning.  After moving to Atlanta I thought I had played some fast greens and assumed I was playing some that were 11 or 12ish on a stimpmeter.  After talking to a friend with four wins on the Nike and played the PGA tour for quite a few years and having him laugh at me, I decided I needed to test for myself.  So I "built" a stimpmeter to do some testing.  There are quite a few storied tracks in the Atlanta area and I have gotten to play most a couple of times, and have measured green speeds on them for sh*ts and giggles.  One I remember off the top of my head is East Lake (Bermuda, I didn't measure when I played and they were Bent) and they had an average roll of 11.5, no rounds right after the tournament, one was two weeks later.  Just to give you an idea of actual speeds.  Most golfers over estimate stimpmeter readings by at least 2 feet.

Edited by driveandputtmachine, 05 February 2018 - 10:11 AM.

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#720 Leo's Caddy

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 11:40 AM

Uh yea. It's not like the winning score at the masters is ever +4. Guys consistently shoot under par at augusta. I think it would be less likely for a scratch golfer to break 85 in a traditional US Open setup than it would be at augusta. My boss has played it and he said it wasn't even the hardest course he's played so yes i think most scratch players can probably break 85 at just about any course if they're playing decent.

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