Thrillhouse, on 13 August 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:
MtlJeff, on 13 August 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:
golferdrmjr, on 13 August 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:
MtlJeff, on 13 August 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:
Wait can we clarify here, are we talking tournament "conditions" only, or an actual tournament with fans?
I played Torrey south a few weeks before the tournament when the rough was in, from the one up tees and shot 81 with new clubs and didn't hit it super well. Qmany shot 69 that day as a +1.
Obviously Augusta is harder but we're talking shooting 84 here not winning a tournament and unless I'm mistaken it's not even in front of fans
Jeff, I hate to rain on your parade, but you guys played the two
up tees. The Pro tees are not even marked 50 weeks out of the year. The tees one behind you were the taupe tees from 7,051 yards. There's another 600 yards behind those! :-)
The ones we played were roughly 6800 if I recall. It's likely they were two up from tournament on some holes yes
I think you guys played two up if it was under 7000.
So I'm a 4 right now, and I played Torrey back in June from the back tees they have set up (7051) and shot 78. Rough was thick, greens were rolling pretty well, it can't have been far off the farmers conditions. I might not have played well from 7600, but I'm pretty sure I would have broken 85 that day from those tees. Fun fact I was with a friend who is a really good college player at a top ranked D1 school, he played the back edge of the back tee and shot even, it was cool to watch.
Now I know I'm a poor example of a 4 because I used to be better, my putting and short game is much better than most 4s due to past experience, and as my driving is improving I'll probably be a solid scratch next year, so I'm not really a run of the mill 4 I'm more like a 0 who is a 4 right now because I drive it bad. BUT, I'm pretty sure I can break 85 at Augusta right now under tournament COURSE conditions (eg no crowds). I'm a good putter, I have all the shots around the greens, and I can get it around well enough from tee to green to score. 85 just isn't that high of a benchmark, I just started playing again this year after like 4 years off and yeah I had some sketchy high 80s rounds at the beginning but since then I think my worst is 84, and I sucked that day!
Now as far as breaking 80 in tournament course conditions at Augusta right now that would be a feat. Do I think I could do it? Possibly, but I wouldn't put my chances at better than 1/5. That being said if I was playing solid scratch golf could I do it? Yeah, I think chances would be good that I could. We aren't talking about playing in front of crowds and with TV cameras around, just a long golf course with fast greens, it's not that big of a deal.
This is obviously just my .03 worth and we've addressed this in various forms and scenarios previously, i.e., "4~ versus LPGA Player," etc. and while the numbers have changed, the "game's" still the same, lol.
My thoughts are that there are two types of "scratches," one who has traveled "North" to that territory from "Plus," some, such as Thrill and the guy that I'm about to speak of(again, lol), having been deeper than others, though "Elite" and "Competitive" Plus Ams, of which I would put my old self in the "Competitive" category though below Elite, have "been there done that" to varying degrees and levels.
Do many, such as Thrill and my Friend, who was a DI AA, Walker Cupper and had his Tour card for two seasons(1986 & 1987) before he tried to "perfect" his swing and, well, he joined his father's multi-million dollar company two years later, stay at this physical level after having stepped back and out of the competitive arena? Of course not however they can recall the swings, shots and rounds of days gone by and most importantly, the VISIONS & FEELINGS of those swings and shots where as someone who does not have these swings shots and rounds in their bank has nothing to draw on.
Simply, they are at scratch to 4~ because life got in the way.
Though their physical game may wax and wane, however the thoughts, the focus, the VISIONS and the FEELINGS are still there and unlike the physical game, which is harder to turn on and off, they can flip into "Plus Mode" and basically turn back the clock and while they may or may not Play to their past peak level, they can lay a serious whuppin on 99.5%+'of those sharing the tee with em.
My Friend that I mentioned above was a 1.2~ at Oakmont(mostly shats & giggle rounds as he has family and his position as CEO of the ole man's company take up most of his time) went out the week before the '16 Open with Bob Ford, David Fehety and Monte and he was low man with a 66. He then put the sticks away and didn't Play for 5-6 weeks and had a ho-hum 72 in the Inter-Club Swat, which though it is weekly, he might Play 3-4 times a year.
Could he break 85 from the tourney tees at Augusta?
He went 74-77 last season.
As a 2ish~
Then ya have the other group of "scratch" golfers~
Those that have travelled "south" to this level, and while they have probably shot under par, it probably hasn't been in a Tourney or for money, and while they have the swing, the stroke and the game in all likelihood to Play at Plus, what they lack, and I cannot stress enough that if ya haven't "been there done that" you have no friggin clue just how important this is, and that is that they lack the MENTAL game.
Their mind does not have the thoughts, pictures, visions or most importantly, the FEELINGS of a successful stroke/swing to call on as they stand behind the ball and go through their PSR-
A very very very few have "tricked" their mind into believing that they have "been there done that" due to thousands and tens of thousands of mental visualization "reps," so they exhibit the calm confidence and self belief that tells them that they WILL execute this shot, not that they CAN execute the shot.
Hell, anyone CAN execute a shot, and maybe do it under pressure, but to Play at the level necessary to Play at Plus?
Nah, ain't gonna happen, not under Competieve Pressure.
So this takes me back to the OP's question(You guys should know me and my round the valley way of getting there😂😂)-
If it's a Southerner, nope, probably not, at least consistently.
If it's a Northerner, like my Bud or Thrill?
I'll bet on em every single time👍
Stay well Gals & Gents🍻
Edited by Forged4ever, 18 August 2017 - 10:22 AM.