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JDM Wedges - Miura, Epon, Fourteen


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#1 benzenbe

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 04:31 PM

Looking to get fitted next week, wanted to know if any has any insight on JDM Wedges, specifically:
  • Miura, in particular the Y, K, C Grinds
  • Epon Tour
  • Fourteen, either the RM-22 or RM Tour

Also, please feel free to compare them against the mainstream offerings (e.g., Cleveland, Titleist Vokeys, Callaway Mack Daddys)

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Titleist Vokey SM6 (56* and 60*) with KBS 610

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#2 MysteryV

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 10:31 PM

I just bought my third Fourteen wedge from Will at People's Clubs (forum sponsor I believe).  All are Tour Raw with KBS Black shafts and in all honesty, I've never hit a wedge that felt better.  The only clubs that feel even close to as good are my Epon 302s.  I'm also a huge fan of the shape as they just look right to me, unlike Clevelands which just never seemed to set up right.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe I read Endo actually does some of the forging for Fourteen.  Regardless, I'm sure Miura and Epon make great wedges, but it's tough to compete with the tour raw Fourteens.
Driver: GBB Epic 9.5 w/ GD AD-TP
3 Wood: Epic 3+ w/ GD AD-DI
Hybrid: Epic 4H w/ GD AD-DI
Irons: Epon 302 w/ Modus 120
Wedges: Miura K Grind 56,60 w/ Modus Wedge
Putter: Byron Morgan DH89 GSS

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#3 LionGolfer

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:06 AM

 MysteryV, on 11 August 2017 - 10:31 PM, said:

I just bought my third Fourteen wedge from Will at People's Clubs (forum sponsor I believe).  All are Tour Raw with KBS Black shafts and in all honesty, I've never hit a wedge that felt better.  The only clubs that feel even close to as good are my Epon 302s.  I'm also a huge fan of the shape as they just look right to me, unlike Clevelands which just never seemed to set up right.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe I read Endo actually does some of the forging for Fourteen.  Regardless, I'm sure Miura and Epon make great wedges, but it's tough to compete with the tour raw Fourteens.

I'm not sure but I think Fourteen has never been Endo but in the past Himeji....Now it could be outsourced to China.
Drivers : AbroadDF570Xanadu-AstroTourVIIIBasiAlpha60-ItoboriCrazy9Dia- GPOM7D-GrandistaCOA
UTs : A-GrindProto-ModartMA01H-ProceedTi-PXG 317
Irons : BuchiVS200-ModartCBC-Mystery913-PXG311T
Wedges : GrindStudio-Modart-OrionTypeS
Putters : Benock-BPutters-DesignTuning-Machine-Masda-Nead-Slighter-Xenon


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#4 flopshot99

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:10 AM

Fourteen has a couple of irons that are endo..i agree wedges are not.

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#5 Fourteen14

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

We do have some of our Irons forged by Endo, the FH-900 and TC-606. As far as the wedges go, they are forged in various forging houses across Asia depending on the model. All final grinding, finishing, and all quality control is done in Japan.


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#6 95124hacker

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:57 PM

 Fourteen14, on 15 August 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

We do have some of our Irons forged by Endo, the FH-900 and TC-606. As far as the wedges go, they are forged in various forging houses across Asia depending on the model. All final grinding, finishing, and all quality control is done in Japan.

I have a set of 2009 Japan released TC-770's.  Are those Endo?

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#7 Fourteen14

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 10:50 AM

 95124hacker, on 15 August 2017 - 06:57 PM, said:

 Fourteen14, on 15 August 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

We do have some of our Irons forged by Endo, the FH-900 and TC-606. As far as the wedges go, they are forged in various forging houses across Asia depending on the model. All final grinding, finishing, and all quality control is done in Japan.

I have a set of 2009 Japan released TC-770's.  Are those Endo?
The TC-770 was not forged by Endo.

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#8 FairwayGolfUSA.com

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 02:07 PM

We really recommend Fourteen RM-22 wedge to our customer that are willing to spend the extra buck.

Check out our Fourteen collection ------------> http://www.fairwaygo...main_page=index
Fairway Golf Online Store :golfer:
Website: http://www.fairwaygolfusa.com
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#9 Norboo

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 02:22 PM

 MysteryV, on 11 August 2017 - 10:31 PM, said:

I just bought my third Fourteen wedge from Will at People's Clubs (forum sponsor I believe).  All are Tour Raw with KBS Black shafts and in all honesty, I've never hit a wedge that felt better.  The only clubs that feel even close to as good are my Epon 302s.  I'm also a huge fan of the shape as they just look right to me, unlike Clevelands which just never seemed to set up right.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe I read Endo actually does some of the forging for Fourteen.  Regardless, I'm sure Miura and Epon make great wedges, but it's tough to compete with the tour raw Fourteens.

Raw feel softer than regular?  Does it wear faster?  Does it rust?
Driver: G20 (hard to replace, not from lack of trying)
Mini Driver: Taylormade SLDR 14*
Fairway: Ping G400 5 wood 17.5*
Hybrid: Ping G400 22* stock shaft
Irons: OnOff Kuro 2015 Model with Recoil 680 F4
Wedges: Scor 50* and 58* with TT Black Gold
Holy Grail: Honma CB8055 (since 1989)
Ball: TaylorMade TP (2014)
Grip: MCC with 1.5 wraps

Backup:  
Ping Rapture V2 4 wood
TEE EX9 Tour 17* with Rough Silver 70
TEE XCG7 Beta 5 wood
Ping G400 19* Hybrid
TEE XCG7 Beta 22* Hybrid
OnOff Kuro 2015 irons backup set
Ping G20 driver backup driver

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#10 Fourteen14

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:22 AM

 Norboo, on 30 September 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

 MysteryV, on 11 August 2017 - 10:31 PM, said:

I just bought my third Fourteen wedge from Will at People's Clubs (forum sponsor I believe).  All are Tour Raw with KBS Black shafts and in all honesty, I've never hit a wedge that felt better.  The only clubs that feel even close to as good are my Epon 302s.  I'm also a huge fan of the shape as they just look right to me, unlike Clevelands which just never seemed to set up right.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe I read Endo actually does some of the forging for Fourteen.  Regardless, I'm sure Miura and Epon make great wedges, but it's tough to compete with the tour raw Fourteens.

Raw feel softer than regular?  Does it wear faster?  Does it rust?

All of the above.

Because there is no plating on the wedge the feel is much softer. The only down side to this is that because there is no plating, the wedge can wear a little faster than one of our chrome plated wedges. We do utilize a specialized steel for our wedges that increases the durability while still providing ultimate feel.

Because of the raw nature of the wedges they will rust. This is the preferred finish for our tour staff, once the wedges start to rust it provides a fantastic low glare patina.


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#11 Norboo

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:18 AM

How are the Fourteen RM-22 58* out of the bunkers and around the green?  I wish they had 58* with 10* bounce.
Driver: G20 (hard to replace, not from lack of trying)
Mini Driver: Taylormade SLDR 14*
Fairway: Ping G400 5 wood 17.5*
Hybrid: Ping G400 22* stock shaft
Irons: OnOff Kuro 2015 Model with Recoil 680 F4
Wedges: Scor 50* and 58* with TT Black Gold
Holy Grail: Honma CB8055 (since 1989)
Ball: TaylorMade TP (2014)
Grip: MCC with 1.5 wraps

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TEE XCG7 Beta 22* Hybrid
OnOff Kuro 2015 irons backup set
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#12 Fourteen14

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:59 PM

 Norboo, on 03 October 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

How are the Fourteen RM-22 58* out of the bunkers and around the green?  I wish they had 58* with 10* bounce.

We do offer the RM-22 58 degree in stock 2 bounce options, 58/08 and 58/12. The 58/12 is going to be the more versatile option because of the delta sole and cutting edge muscle design.

We also offer some hand ground custom options for the RM-22 Tour Raw wedges on our website. This could be a way to get the sole option that you like.
http://www.fourteeng...uct=RM22TOURRAW

Here is an example of our hand ground C-grind sole,
IMG_0472.jpg IMG_0463.jpg

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#13 Norboo

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:05 PM

 Fourteen14, on 03 October 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

 Norboo, on 03 October 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

How are the Fourteen RM-22 58* out of the bunkers and around the green?  I wish they had 58* with 10* bounce.

We do offer the RM-22 58 degree in stock 2 bounce options, 58/08 and 58/12. The 58/12 is going to be the more versatile option because of the delta sole and cutting edge muscle design.

We also offer some hand ground custom options for the RM-22 Tour Raw wedges on our website. This could be a way to get the sole option that you like.
http://www.fourteeng...uct=RM22TOURRAW

Here is an example of our hand ground C-grind sole,
IMG_0472.jpg IMG_0463.jpg

Only concern with 12* bounce, it's harder to flop and 8* wil be harder to hit out of fluffy sand.  I can't justify getting a custom wedge when they last about two seasons max.
Driver: G20 (hard to replace, not from lack of trying)
Mini Driver: Taylormade SLDR 14*
Fairway: Ping G400 5 wood 17.5*
Hybrid: Ping G400 22* stock shaft
Irons: OnOff Kuro 2015 Model with Recoil 680 F4
Wedges: Scor 50* and 58* with TT Black Gold
Holy Grail: Honma CB8055 (since 1989)
Ball: TaylorMade TP (2014)
Grip: MCC with 1.5 wraps

Backup:  
Ping Rapture V2 4 wood
TEE EX9 Tour 17* with Rough Silver 70
TEE XCG7 Beta 5 wood
Ping G400 19* Hybrid
TEE XCG7 Beta 22* Hybrid
OnOff Kuro 2015 irons backup set
Ping G20 driver backup driver

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#14 dmeeksDC

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:14 PM

Not a big deal to flop a wedge with 12 degrees of bounce. Check out Phil Mickelson's short game vids: He hits famous flops and is a major believer that bounce is your friend. Says it all the time. He plays a 56.13 and even his lob is a 60.10. Some pros play lobs with 4 or 6 degrees bounce, but Phil is always at 10 or more.

How often do you hit flops? Not a shot I go to frequently because I don't practice it ever. I'd go for versatility -- get the 58.12 and not worry about it. Not likely to hinder you. I have a 58.12 degree RM12 and can hit any shot with it. Excellent out of the bunker. The RM12 has quite a cult following, one of the all-time great wedges.

Edited by dmeeksDC, 03 October 2017 - 10:20 PM.

Current lineup:

TM M1 440 Tour Issue, 10-degree, Diamana B Series X,
67g.
Nike Flex 3 wood, Diamana S-70 stiff
Callaway Epic 5W, Hzrdus T800 S, 65g.
Callaway Apex hybrid, 20 degree, Kuro Kage 80HY stiff shaft
Mizuno MP-59, 4-P, PX 5.5
(Coming: Srixon z565 4 iron, z965 5-P, C Taper Lite X.)
Ping Glide 50, 54, CFS wedge shafts
Fourteen RM12 58/12 sand wedge
Edel Rogue putter (thick blade), 34 inch.

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#15 boycer11

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 10:08 AM

I had the miura, now have the 2017 vokey forged and they feel great. But I'm still debating epon tour, fourteen and mizuno s18.

Ping g400 10.5
Callaway gbb epic sz 3 wood
Ping g400 5 wd rogue black 7s
Ping g400 4 hybrid
Mizuno jpx 900 hotmetal nippon 105
Miura 54/58 nippon modus custom
TM jdm spider

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#16 Jarlaxle

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:03 PM

I am very happy with my Miura wedges.

51* Y grind - Primary scoring club from 115 to 100 yards, occasionally play chip and run shots with it but not very often. Probably my single favorite club to hit in the hole bag.
55* C grind - Full swing is a perfect 100 yard club, use it for almost all shots between 25 and 100 yards.
60* K grind - Use for all short game shots including bunker shots but only rarely play it further than 25 yards.  A full swing would go about 70 yards but am more comfortable using the 55* for that kind of yardage.

Not sure if this helps you at all but my wedge game has improved significantly using the Miuras.  Always feel like I have the right club for every shot.

Edited by Jarlaxle, 04 October 2017 - 08:39 PM.

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Mizuno JPX 900 3W w/ Speeder Evo III 661 Stiff
Callaway RAZR X-Tour Hybrids (2 and 4)
Mizuno MP-53 Irons w/ Project X 5.5 (5-PW)
Miura Y Grind 51 w/ Project X 5.5
Miura C Grind 55 w/ Project X 5.5
Miura K Grind 60 w/ Project X 5.5
Byron Morgan 007 (350g)
Titleist Lightweight Stand Bag

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#17 dmeeksDC

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 09:17 PM

 Jarlaxle, on 04 October 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

I am very happy with my Miura wedges.

51* Y grind - Primary scoring club from 115 to 100 yards, occasionally play chip and run shots with it but not very often. Probably my single favorite club to hit in the whole bag.

It is amazing how many references I see to the Miura Y grind being a favorite of whoever plays it. Seems like it must be a standout wedge grind. Going to have to try one someday.
Current lineup:

TM M1 440 Tour Issue, 10-degree, Diamana B Series X,
67g.
Nike Flex 3 wood, Diamana S-70 stiff
Callaway Epic 5W, Hzrdus T800 S, 65g.
Callaway Apex hybrid, 20 degree, Kuro Kage 80HY stiff shaft
Mizuno MP-59, 4-P, PX 5.5
(Coming: Srixon z565 4 iron, z965 5-P, C Taper Lite X.)
Ping Glide 50, 54, CFS wedge shafts
Fourteen RM12 58/12 sand wedge
Edel Rogue putter (thick blade), 34 inch.

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#18 kyle75

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 06:27 PM

I recently bought a Fourteen Tour Raw 58 wedge from Will Peoples and it is phenomenal.  I love the feel of this wedge and the sole is so versatile.  I can't recommend this club enough.

Edited by kyle75, 07 October 2017 - 06:27 PM.


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#19 boycer11

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:12 AM

What about Vega?
Ping g400 10.5
Callaway gbb epic sz 3 wood
Ping g400 5 wd rogue black 7s
Ping g400 4 hybrid
Mizuno jpx 900 hotmetal nippon 105
Miura 54/58 nippon modus custom
TM jdm spider

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#20 Jmx

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 12:16 AM

 FairwayGolfUSA.com, on 30 September 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

We really recommend Fourteen RM-22 wedge to our customer that are willing to spend the extra buck.

Check out our Fourteen collection ------------> http://www.fairwaygo...main_page=index

My friend games these, look/feel like nothing else.


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#21 theshadow1971

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:08 AM

What  about Miura's MG-M01 one of their latest wedges, or MG-S01 or their MB-5000, WA, WB or WC series!
Or Miura Hagane Series.

The are available in several grinds, finishes available and a whole other assortment of customisation.

See this shop below In Japan  the link is for MG-S01 Miura wedges, it will show you the customisation you can order, which is done by Miura.

http://www.one2one.j....cgi?code=mgs01

Also you can see brands on this site for Orion, ZiZi, Zodia and whole host of Japanese niche brands for irons, woods etc etc.

One interesting thing to see for Miura fans on the above site the CB1007 irons have 3 different models, "stock", "Y-Grind", and "MG" (Muscle Grind).
Srixon (asian specs)

Z545 10.5* Driver
Z F45 15* 3W
Z H45 19* 3 Hybrid
Z745 3-PW

Z745 AW@51* & SW@57*

Cleveland Classic HB 2 Black Pearl Putter
Bridgestone B330RXS

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#22 theshadow1971

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 04:13 AM

View PostFourteen14, on 15 August 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

We do have some of our Irons forged by Endo, the FH-900 and TC-606. As far as the wedges go, they are forged in various forging houses across Asia depending on the model. All final grinding, finishing, and all quality control is done in Japan.

Care to share exactly where your irons are forged, which countries for which models.
So us consumers of golfing products can make informed decisions whether it is ENDO forged in Japan or Thailand, or forged in Taiwan or Mainland China!
Srixon (asian specs)

Z545 10.5* Driver
Z F45 15* 3W
Z H45 19* 3 Hybrid
Z745 3-PW

Z745 AW@51* & SW@57*

Cleveland Classic HB 2 Black Pearl Putter
Bridgestone B330RXS

22

#23 buckeyefl

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:43 AM

Honestly do you think most people could even begin to tell the difference?

What you need to ask is how they perform and the answer is excellent.

Edited by buckeyefl, 22 October 2017 - 09:48 AM.


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#24 thekanga

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:35 PM

Another vote for Fourteen.

I've had the Fourteen RM-21's (50/10, 54/10 and 60/8) for 2 seasons and love them.  Always played Vokey's before the switch.

Most of my playing partners love the feel but the steep pricing puts many of them off.  I wouldn't hesitate to get some RM-22's when the time comes.



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#25 Stonewalled

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:50 PM

I have admired the Miura 1957 K grind wedges from the the first time i had seen a review on one.

Not being able to actually see one in person and the $275 plus price had me holding off buying one.

I had seen a used mint 56 K head  on the bst a few months ago and it sold before i was able to get it.

The same head now with a shaft came up recently and i jumped on it.

I was able to play around with it today, i mostly used it for chipping around the green.

It was very windy today and i didn't take any full shots with it but i had the best chipping round i can recall in a long time, or ever.

The K grind wedge has to be for my eye the prettiest iron head i have ever owned, absolute perfection.

Might have to find me some Miura irons to match, as well as a 52 and 60 K.


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#26 rmyoung88

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:40 PM

Was just fit into a 50/53/58 by Joe Kwok in the Rm-22... They feel amazing, both around the greens and full wedge shots.

Go for the raw finish, you can't beat the look and feel!

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#27 DrJet

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:35 PM

I have RM 12s (52 and 58). Before switching, I was a fan of vokey. My friends wonder how I can stop the ball after one bounce for a chip shot near green. It was a good purchase.
My bag:

Titleist 913D3 w/ Tour AD BB S,Fourteen CT, Honma, or Yamaha Inpress (Too many drivers, please stop me)
Titleist 909 15 or Xxio
Miura 202 3-p NS pro S Pured
Fourteen RM 12, 52 and 58
Scotty Cameron 2.6

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#28 dmeeksDC

dmeeksDC

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 11:21 PM

View PostDrJet, on 24 October 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

I have RM 12s (52 and 58). Before switching, I was a fan of vokey. My friends wonder how I can stop the ball after one bounce for a chip shot near green. It was a good purchase.

Have the RM 12 in 58 also. Tremendous club from bunkers and wide variety of lies. One of the all-time best.
Current lineup:

TM M1 440 Tour Issue, 10-degree, Diamana B Series X,
67g.
Nike Flex 3 wood, Diamana S-70 stiff
Callaway Epic 5W, Hzrdus T800 S, 65g.
Callaway Apex hybrid, 20 degree, Kuro Kage 80HY stiff shaft
Mizuno MP-59, 4-P, PX 5.5
(Coming: Srixon z565 4 iron, z965 5-P, C Taper Lite X.)
Ping Glide 50, 54, CFS wedge shafts
Fourteen RM12 58/12 sand wedge
Edel Rogue putter (thick blade), 34 inch.

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#29 SwingMan

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:48 PM

Miura K Grind -

My second go around with the K Grind 56 and 60. The first time, I was fairly ignorant about bounce, creativity and how to effectively use a wedge. The first time was about 6 yrs ago when they first came out. Then I went to Edel - and they fit. Excellent wedges - but not the solid, dense feel of Miura. And I'd grown in experience and knowledge about creating shots and using bounce to my benefit.

My club guy had a couple of black K Grinds that were barely used about a year ago - bent the 56 to 55, and the 60 to 59 - still plenty of bounce, about 11 and 12 respectively. Fell in love all over again - the feel is unique. And the K Grind knuckles are super in the bunker, rough and wet. Although wet, thick, ball covering rough is "Let's hope for the best" with any wedge. I can lay the shaft back, lay the shaft down from almost any lie that has a bit of grass and the Miura will perform. I've had a couple of holeouts from below the green with little flops and from the rough this summer - lucky - but the wedge performed. I'm not saying it will perform for everyone because I practice partial wedge shots and flops a lot around the range. I don't open wedges much except a bit in the bunker.

As to the Y Grind, I would use it as a Gap Wedge - nice wedge.

Miura C Grinds - I had them about 8 yrs ago -  in lush conditions, fine. But memory is that they did not have enough rellief (grinding) for me at the time for tight conditions and versatility in the higher lofts. Of course, my game has improved since using them. But the grind was not as aggressive as the Callaway C Grind. Miura tends to be conservative in grinds.

I also use Nippon Pro Modus 3 Wedge Shafts - very nice...

Edited by SwingMan, 08 November 2017 - 03:11 AM.

"My swing is so bad, I look like a caveman killing his lunch" - Lee Trevino

In the Bag: Ping G400/TPT Series 17 LKP  ● Callaway Steelhead XR 3,5,7 ● Callaway Big Bertha OS 22/Bassara 50 ● PXG 0311 XF 5-6i, PXG 0311/Mitsubishi OT 75 7-GW,  Miura K Grind 55, 59 Nippon Pro Modus 3 105 ● Directed Force Reno or Edel E-1 ● Callaway CS, Snell MTB
Most Clubs built by Frank VIola @ www.aceofclubstp.com

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