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Game has plateaued....


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#31 bullsfan

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:30 AM

View PostHescrience, on 09 August 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

First, let me start by saying I've only recently gotten obsessed with this game. (Played 2 times a week since March with the exception of a couple weeks here and there)
You can see my other post where I updated my progress and I think I have shown some promising things in the span of about 6 months.
Started out at the 95-105 mark and have dropped my score to 85-95 in that span.
The last couple months though I have plateaued! Argh!
I haven't had a single lesson and my equipment is not fitted towards me at all. Let me give you guys a list of what I use
Taylormade Burner driver/3 wood
Calloway Razr 5-9iron
Calloway big bertha(olddddd) 3-4iron(Please don't ask me how this happened lol I got my fathers hand me downs and he has slight anger issues when it comes to golf but who doesnt? They are in a lake somewhere)
The newest 56 degree wedge from Cleveland(It's the RTX 2.0)
Calloway Warbird 60 degree wedge
an old bronze golfsmith sand wedge
Taylormade '79 putter(It says '79 on it, it's not from 1979)

As you can see I have a whole bunch of brands and a whole bunch of differently aged clubs....
So I guess my question is. Is it really worth it to shell 2000+(estimate) on some new clubs/fitting?
Like.. I know lessons most definitely will improve my score. but the custom fitting/new clubs??
I am only 20 years old and honestly, If I can drop my score another 10 strokes by my 21st birthday in April then I am fully 100% prepared to give it a go at dedicating every day to this and becoming professional. It sounds like a stretch I know. But I gotta try it if I can get out of this hump.
Thanks for whatever you have to say on this topic! I appreciate all criticism and feedback!

Hey you live down here by me. Do yourself a favor, get
Ben Hogan's Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf.

It's a short book and easy read and IT will help. Take a lesson or two after with a PGA Pro and get to work. You'll soon realize what the Pro is speaking of and you will be better able to grasp the concepts. This book will give you everything you need to set a foundation to work with, no club or new tech will give you that. Cheaper too! When you get a better understanding about golf then you can decide where to go from there.

Good luck.

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#32 Striker Ace

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:36 PM

Ben Hogan five lessons: http://www.youtube.c...LXHmo0TZiBjbVT5

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#33 bervin

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:12 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 09 August 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

View PostHescrience, on 09 August 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

First, let me start by saying I've only recently gotten obsessed with this game. (Played 2 times a week since March with the exception of a couple weeks here and there)
You can see my other post where I updated my progress and I think I have shown some promising things in the span of about 6 months.
Started out at the 95-105 mark and have dropped my score to 85-95 in that span.
The last couple months though I have plateaued! Argh!
I haven't had a single lesson and my equipment is not fitted towards me at all. Let me give you guys a list of what I use
Taylormade Burner driver/3 wood
Calloway Razr 5-9iron
Calloway big bertha(olddddd) 3-4iron(Please don't ask me how this happened lol I got my fathers hand me downs and he has slight anger issues when it comes to golf but who doesnt? They are in a lake somewhere)
The newest 56 degree wedge from Cleveland(It's the RTX 2.0)
Calloway Warbird 60 degree wedge
an old bronze golfsmith sand wedge
Taylormade '79 putter(It says '79 on it, it's not from 1979)

As you can see I have a whole bunch of brands and a whole bunch of differently aged clubs....
So I guess my question is. Is it really worth it to shell 2000+(estimate) on some new clubs/fitting?
Like.. I know lessons most definitely will improve my score. but the custom fitting/new clubs??
I am only 20 years old and honestly, If I can drop my score another 10 strokes by my 21st birthday in April then I am fully 100% prepared to give it a go at dedicating every day to this and becoming professional. It sounds like a stretch I know. But I gotta try it if I can get out of this hump.
Thanks for whatever you have to say on this topic! I appreciate all criticism and feedback!

1. Most professionals don't set out to be professionals. They just love golf and the rest takes care of itself. Don't be an ego golfer be a mastery golfer (and if you don't know what this means, buy some of gio valentine's books).

2. Don't listen to anyone who tells you great golfers need great short games. It's nonsense and it's antiquated. All great golfers have one thing in common - they hit tons of GIRs. Ball striking is king. The tour average from the sand is 2.74. If all you do is hack it out and two putt you won't be the worst on tour. With a handful of exceptions, professional golf is a collection of the best full swing players in the world. "Making par from anywhere" is a myth if you actually look at professional statistics.  Some of them can do that but they are a tiny minority.  You should focus on short game once your hitting 11-16 greens every single round. Not before.

3. Don't ever confuse score with game. Your score may have plateu'd. That doesn't mean you are an identical ability level. It can take a long time for improvement to show up in your scores.

4. Don't listen to anyone who says you can't do it. Your life is yours and you only get one. Read nick oherns book about how he made the tour. It's not much different from you right now.

5. Start playing in events right now. Playing with buddies and randoms is fun and all but it's about as much like playing in a tournament as whiffle ball is to baseball. Get used to it. The only way to shed the fear of tournaments is to look like an idiot in them a couple hundred times. Start now.

As I often do, I find myself agreeing almost whole-heartedly with PSGs advice here.

If putting was as important as amateurs describe it to be, then Adam Scott wouldn't be on tour. This is obviously the extreme end, but don't kid yourself - look at actual PGA tour data for middle of the pack players and you find GIR percentages much higher than even your normal "scratch" players in the local clubhouse hit on a regular basis. And frankly, they do it from all over. From 200 yards these guys are hitting greens - OFTEN. Obviously, proximity to the home averages decline, but this is where they 2 putt, move on with par, and attack the birdie holes.

If I could offer any advice, it would be this:

1) Work with someone who,

A. Knows the game, and I mean really understands the nuances of golf at a very high level. I'm talking about someone who's had exposure to extremely competitive golf - not your local scratch who cleans house on Saturday morning In the money games.

B. Knows the fundamentals of a good swing - seems self explanatory here...

C. Is progressive in their thinking/teaching. I was told my entire youth that I'd never make it competitively with my very strong grip and shut clubface. It was taboo in golf to play with this kind of grip as I would never be able to control my golf ball well enough to compete at the next level. Now you're lucky to find a new or younger player on tour without a strong grip. My point, your coach/instructor needs to be flexible and progressive.

D. Does not try to re-invent your golf swing. I know teachers who preach one swing, as if it's the only swing that can work. In reality, it's the only swing they know. There is a reason the PGA tour is filled with golfers with drastically different looking swings. The reality is, they all look great at impact, they are on plane, with a square clubface. This goes back to the fundamentals.

Anyway, I'll stop my (hopefully somewhat coherent) ramblings. If you are truly obsessed, become a student of the game and learn the nuances of competitive golf. As Pine said, there is no better way to learn and grow than to actually compete.

Good luck, OP!


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#34 bladehunter

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:36 PM

View PostMuskieCy, on 09 August 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Start 3 feet from the hole, master that and move to 6". See how fast you the point of no return comes at you.

Then do it again,...and again,....and again......

When you think you can play a bit, play in your state association events. Get your head handed to you.

Then do it again,...and again,....and again......


You will improve by leaps and bounds, become bored with chop and giggle with your buddies, and then realize the zen of GolfWRX.


this man speaks the truth! ^^
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#35 BenHoganSlam1953

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 09:53 PM

View Postthird-times-a-charm, on 09 August 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Well at least you STARTED shooting 105...some people start shooting over 150 and have to go down from there.

Yep - those were the days ... but I had fun

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#36 LaymanM

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:20 AM

Golf is tough!  I'm stuck at 11 since last fall.   A couple of 76 and pars on one 9. Right now fall apart on a few holes.  Too many doubles and triples.   Comes from OB penalties, missing too many greens and 2 with occasional 3 put.  

For instance, Wednesday in my league shot 44 with 3 triples and 1 birdie.   I had 3 OB balls.  1 result of very bad luck.

Week before shot 40 with 2 birdies and 2 doubles.  

Plan and simple, just need better shot consistency tee to green.  Right now I just think I need to improve my swing tempo.
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#37 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:12 PM

View PostLaymanM, on 12 August 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

Golf is tough!  I'm stuck at 11 since last fall.   A couple of 76 and pars on one 9. Right now fall apart on a few holes.  Too many doubles and triples.   Comes from OB penalties, missing too many greens and 2 with occasional 3 put.  

For instance, Wednesday in my league shot 44 with 3 triples and 1 birdie.   I had 3 OB balls.  1 result of very bad luck.

Week before shot 40 with 2 birdies and 2 doubles.  

Plan and simple, just need better shot consistency tee to green.  Right now I just think I need to improve my swing tempo.

Shooting 44 with three OB balls is really impressive. Kudos. Shows a huge capacity to score.

Maybe instead of "swing tempo" you need to change where you aim. It is almost never correct to aim up the center of the fairway, for example.

I agree that golf is tough, but it's not always about the swing! If you don't aim well you don't want a good swing!
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#38 jslane57

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:17 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 August 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

View PostLaymanM, on 12 August 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

Golf is tough!  I'm stuck at 11 since last fall.   A couple of 76 and pars on one 9. Right now fall apart on a few holes.  Too many doubles and triples.   Comes from OB penalties, missing too many greens and 2 with occasional 3 put.  

For instance, Wednesday in my league shot 44 with 3 triples and 1 birdie.   I had 3 OB balls.  1 result of very bad luck.

Week before shot 40 with 2 birdies and 2 doubles.  

Plan and simple, just need better shot consistency tee to green.  Right now I just think I need to improve my swing tempo.

Shooting 44 with three OB balls is really impressive. Kudos. Shows a huge capacity to score.

Maybe instead of "swing tempo" you need to change where you aim. It is almost never correct to aim up the center of the fairway, for example.

I agree that golf is tough, but it's not always about the swing! If you don't aim well you don't want a good swing!
This is good advice. A safe shot that works is always better than a shot that was almost perfect...
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#39 LaymanM

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:23 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 12 August 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

View PostLaymanM, on 12 August 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

Golf is tough!  I'm stuck at 11 since last fall.   A couple of 76 and pars on one 9. Right now fall apart on a few holes.  Too many doubles and triples.   Comes from OB penalties, missing too many greens and 2 with occasional 3 put.  

For instance, Wednesday in my league shot 44 with 3 triples and 1 birdie.   I had 3 OB balls.  1 result of very bad luck.

Week before shot 40 with 2 birdies and 2 doubles.  

Plan and simple, just need better shot consistency tee to green.  Right now I just think I need to improve my swing tempo.

Shooting 44 with three OB balls is really impressive. Kudos. Shows a huge capacity to score.

Maybe instead of "swing tempo" you need to change where you aim. It is almost never correct to aim up the center of the fairway, for example.

I agree that golf is tough, but it's not always about the swing! If you don't aim well you don't want a good swing!

Thanks and also very frustrating lol
Appreciate the advice, I have started to out more thought into this for each club in the bag.  Work in progress, golf is a tough sport
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#40 Hescrience

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 04:23 PM

3-5 months since i posted this... I am now regularly in the 75-85 range with more in the 70s than not. Haven't had a triple bogey in 6 rounds. Just hit my first hole in one today on a 160ish yard par 3... Family is supporting me by giving me a $1500 gift card to Golf Galaxy... Game is great, Life is great. (:


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#41 Davidv

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 04:43 PM

Your mish mash of equipment some of it pretty outdated certainly is going to limit your progress. I would start with lessons and then when your instructor turns you loose go get a club fitting and spend the money to upgrade your sticks.

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#42 MrFlapjack

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 06:48 PM

This would be my advice, and what has worked for me.  Everyone has to find their own game, but when you plateau, and want to improve something has to change.

1. Buy an orange whip - This instills great tempo, and keeps your swing in a good plane.  When the swing gets too outside it becomes hard to swing as you would have to reroute it in a figure 8 which is not really doable.  FW's hit went way up after using this.  Also helps with every other club in the bag.  I used to rip the driver down from the top, and it was a complete waste of energy, gained nothing in clubhead speed, and more times than not left me with an open clubface and a missed fairway.  Collect the club at the top, and then proceed with the downswing.  Think pendulum..

2. Find your putter - Go to a golf store with the most putter variety you have, and test them all out.  Bring a ball with a good alignment aid you can see once its rolling.  Using the line on the ball cycle through various putters and find out which one(s) get you rolling that ball straight (line tracks straight when rolling) most consistently.  Once you find what model (blade, mid mallet, center shaft etc) check shaft offset if applicable (3 of same putter etc) to see if the shaft offset makes any difference.  I played Cleveland mid-mallets for a few years, and the shaft offset ranged from full which I prefer to about 1/4 offset just from what was on the shelf.

3. Try back-weighting your putter - If you feel a bit jabby with the putter or struggle with distance control pick up some Tour Lock Pro weights and add them to the grip.  Puts weight in your hands, and can stabilize the bigger muscles leading to a smoother stroke.

4. Practice technique on the range and clear your mind on the course -  If you have swing thoughts on the course about how you are going to swing the club start to finish, then consistency will suffer.  Practice the body movements on the range, and in your practice swings.  Thinking too much causes body parts to freeze, and react unnaturally.  Think of it this way.  If you wanted to jump up onto your couch you just think jump on the couch and you do it.  If you had to go through each part such as 1. Flex knees.... 2. Curl toes.... 3. Swing arms back... 4. Make sure to fire glutes etc it's gonna feel weird as $&*#.

5.  Practice you alignment, and setup -  This is so important as a couple degrees on the teebox can be many yards offline or OB.  Find your intended target line and trace it back to the ball.  Find a small mark 1-2 feet in front of the ball on that line, and square the clubface to that spot, and "then" step into your stance while keeping that face square.  Way easier than stepping up to the ball and then trying to align the face.  This works for every club even putter.

6. Read "Mastering Golfs Mental Game" - Great book

7. Number one priority is making solid centered contact - When I made that my priority one round I shot my personal best 74, and hit 16 greens.  Don't try to smash every shot at 110%
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#43 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:36 AM

View PostMrFlapjack, on 02 December 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

2. Find your putter - Go to a golf store with the most putter variety you have, and test them all out.  Bring a ball with a good alignment aid you can see once its rolling.  Using the line on the ball cycle through various putters and find out which one(s) get you rolling that ball straight (line tracks straight when rolling) most consistently.  Once you find what model (blade, mid mallet, center shaft etc) check shaft offset if applicable (3 of same putter etc) to see if the shaft offset makes any difference.  I played Cleveland mid-mallets for a few years, and the shaft offset ranged from full which I prefer to about 1/4 offset just from what was on the shelf.

3. Try back-weighting your putter - If you feel a bit jabby with the putter or struggle with distance control pick up some Tour Lock Pro weights and add them to the grip.  Puts weight in your hands, and can stabilize the bigger muscles leading to a smoother stroke.

A guy who wants to make the tour probably doesn't have a good enough stroke right now to be able to just go get a putter he finds comfortable and putt at an acceptable level.  There is a myth that putting is about finding the right putter and that you can put however you want, which is nonsense.  All great putters maintain a flat left wrist at impact except Lee Trevino.

You can spot a hack putter a mile away - their left wrist points to the sky instead of the hole after they hit the ball.

https://www.youtube....h?v=1IplWxD5Kzk

Watch his left wrist.  If he was wearing a wrist watch it would be pointing directly down the target line at the hole (i.e. it doesn't break down at all whatsoever).  Most bad putter (virtually all) have their left wrist pointed up.

It doesn't matter how well your putter "fits" you if you flip.  Get a putter that is the right specs to allow you to maintain that left wrist through the stroke.  "Feeling comfortable" is complete nonsense.  If you are a bad putter, you don't want to feel comfortable.  Comfortable means you'll continue to be bad.  You want a putter that, when you take your natural stance, is the exact dimensions to be (1) a soft extension of your left arm - i.e. its not so long that you have to break your wrist down to hold it and (2) it has correct loft/lie so that when your arms hang down under your shoulders it is flat on the ground.  If you can stand there with your left arm "soft straight", the putter face square and level with your hands hanging all the way down then that is a good putter for you.

NOTE: Before a ton of people jump on this, most fitters fit your current stroke, which likely stinks.  If you flip, the fitter isn't going to give you a correct putter to maintain your left wrist and then say "this is going to be bad for a while, but stick with it" - they "fit" your flippy stroke and maximize it on whatever they are using to measure.  Its like dropping a HEMI engine in a YUGO.  This guy posted he wanted to make the tour.  There are great putters out there and none of them break down their left wrist.

View PostMrFlapjack, on 02 December 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

4. Practice technique on the range and clear your mind on the course -  If you have swing thoughts on the course about how you are going to swing the club start to finish, then consistency will suffer.  Practice the body movements on the range, and in your practice swings.  Thinking too much causes body parts to freeze, and react unnaturally.  Think of it this way.  If you wanted to jump up onto your couch you just think jump on the couch and you do it.  If you had to go through each part such as 1. Flex knees.... 2. Curl toes.... 3. Swing arms back... 4. Make sure to fire glutes etc it's gonna feel weird as $&*#.

Again, don't agree.  Most bad golfers blame "thinking too much" but they should blame "thinking the wrong things".  Thinking the correct things is fine.  If you understand the mechanics of the golf swing then thinking during the swing is fine, and a lot of players' play their best golf that way (they are mechanical, like Paul Casey for example, who is insane mechanical).  Not everyone is a feel golfer.  That said, if you are thinking complete nonsense like "keep my head down" then yes, you shouldn't think.  But there is nothing wrong with being an extremely analytical player (Faldo and Kite are another two who thought through their entire swings) *as long as you actually know what you are supposed to be doing*.  Most have no idea what they are supposed to be doing, so they think "thinking nothing" is good.  Thinking nothing is better than thinking something wrong, but its not necessarily good.

View PostMrFlapjack, on 02 December 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

5.  Practice you alignment, and setup -  This is so important as a couple degrees on the teebox can be many yards offline or OB.  Find your intended target line and trace it back to the ball.  Find a small mark 1-2 feet in front of the ball on that line, and square the clubface to that spot, and "then" step into your stance while keeping that face square.  Way easier than stepping up to the ball and then trying to align the face.  This works for every club even putter.

6. Read "Mastering Golfs Mental Game" - Great book

7. Number one priority is making solid centered contact - When I made that my priority one round I shot my personal best 74, and hit 16 greens.  Don't try to smash every shot at 110%

This is great advice.  You can't try to hit a golf ball hard.  If your left shoulder doesn't separate and your weight doesn't get forward you can't hit it hard.  Clubhead speed never comes from effort.  Contracting muscles slow you down, they don't speed you up.  If a muscle is contracting during your swing you are slowing down.  All three of these are really good suggestions.  If you hit the middle chances are you did a whole lot of things correctly.

The intermediate aim tip is the best tip in the thread.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 03 December 2017 - 10:39 AM.

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#44 dbleag

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:54 AM

View PostHescrience, on 09 August 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:



As you can see I have a whole bunch of brands and a whole bunch of differently aged clubs....
So I guess my question is. Is it really worth it to shell 2000+(estimate) on some new clubs/fitting?
Like.. I know lessons most definitely will improve my score. but the custom fitting/new clubs??
I am only 20 years old and honestly, If I can drop my score another 10 strokes by my 21st birthday in April then I am fully 100% prepared to give it a go at dedicating every day to this and becoming professional. It sounds like a stretch I know. But I gotta try it if I can get out of this hump.


Thanks for whatever you have to say on this topic! I appreciate all criticism and feedback!

If you can improve 20 shots from where you started in such a short time....why would you change your equipment?

Obviously your swing and course management will have improved enough to get you to the 75-85 range.

You will be one of those guys who can play great golf because of your swing & mental strength.

Getting new/fitted equipment doesn't necessarily guarantee any improvement.

14

#45 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 11:17 AM

View Postdbleag, on 03 December 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

View PostHescrience, on 09 August 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

As you can see I have a whole bunch of brands and a whole bunch of differently aged clubs....
So I guess my question is. Is it really worth it to shell 2000+(estimate) on some new clubs/fitting?
Like.. I know lessons most definitely will improve my score. but the custom fitting/new clubs??
I am only 20 years old and honestly, If I can drop my score another 10 strokes by my 21st birthday in April then I am fully 100% prepared to give it a go at dedicating every day to this and becoming professional. It sounds like a stretch I know. But I gotta try it if I can get out of this hump.


Thanks for whatever you have to say on this topic! I appreciate all criticism and feedback!

If you can improve 20 shots from where you started in such a short time....why would you change your equipment?

Obviously your swing and course management will have improved enough to get you to the 75-85 range.

You will be one of those guys who can play great golf because of your swing & mental strength.

Getting new/fitted equipment doesn't necessarily guarantee any improvement.

Because going from 95 to 75 is much, much easier than going from 74 to 71.  Every single edge matters.

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#46 gvogel

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:56 PM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 03 December 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

View Postdbleag, on 03 December 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

View PostHescrience, on 09 August 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

As you can see I have a whole bunch of brands and a whole bunch of differently aged clubs....
So I guess my question is. Is it really worth it to shell 2000+(estimate) on some new clubs/fitting?
Like.. I know lessons most definitely will improve my score. but the custom fitting/new clubs??
I am only 20 years old and honestly, If I can drop my score another 10 strokes by my 21st birthday in April then I am fully 100% prepared to give it a go at dedicating every day to this and becoming professional. It sounds like a stretch I know. But I gotta try it if I can get out of this hump.


Thanks for whatever you have to say on this topic! I appreciate all criticism and feedback!

If you can improve 20 shots from where you started in such a short time....why would you change your equipment?

Obviously your swing and course management will have improved enough to get you to the 75-85 range.

You will be one of those guys who can play great golf because of your swing & mental strength.

Getting new/fitted equipment doesn't necessarily guarantee any improvement.

Because going from 95 to 75 is much, much easier than going from 74 to 71.  Every single edge matters.

But just remember that there are a bunch of really good professionals that have played "game improvement" irons.  Here is a list: Rocco Mediate (almost won a US Open with shovels), Kenny Perry, Colin Montgomery.  Ben Curtis won a Tour event with AP1's.  Anika Sorenstam won just about everything for awhile with shovels.

There is nothing wrong with finding something that works, and sticking to it.

Edited by gvogel, 03 December 2017 - 07:57 PM.

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#47 sdandrea

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 08:03 PM

a solid short game will serve you well for your entire golfing life.  When you get to be my age, it becomes critical.  I can no longer reach many par 4s in regulation, so chipping and putting has become the foundation of my game.
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#48 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 08:54 PM

View Postgvogel, on 03 December 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 03 December 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

View Postdbleag, on 03 December 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

View PostHescrience, on 09 August 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

As you can see I have a whole bunch of brands and a whole bunch of differently aged clubs....
So I guess my question is. Is it really worth it to shell 2000+(estimate) on some new clubs/fitting?
Like.. I know lessons most definitely will improve my score. but the custom fitting/new clubs??
I am only 20 years old and honestly, If I can drop my score another 10 strokes by my 21st birthday in April then I am fully 100% prepared to give it a go at dedicating every day to this and becoming professional. It sounds like a stretch I know. But I gotta try it if I can get out of this hump.


Thanks for whatever you have to say on this topic! I appreciate all criticism and feedback!

If you can improve 20 shots from where you started in such a short time....why would you change your equipment?

Obviously your swing and course management will have improved enough to get you to the 75-85 range.

You will be one of those guys who can play great golf because of your swing & mental strength.

Getting new/fitted equipment doesn't necessarily guarantee any improvement.

Because going from 95 to 75 is much, much easier than going from 74 to 71.  Every single edge matters.

But just remember that there are a bunch of really good professionals that have played "game improvement" irons.  Here is a list: Rocco Mediate (almost won a US Open with shovels), Kenny Perry, Colin Montgomery.  Ben Curtis won a Tour event with AP1's.  Anika Sorenstam won just about everything for awhile with shovels.

There is nothing wrong with finding something that works, and sticking to it.

PGA Tour Events won with Shovels: Maybe 12?
PGA Tour Events won with non-Shovels: Like a million

I believe that Bill Haas also played AP1s for a while, and both Choi and Westwood have been in the hunt in big time events with Ping GI irons.

The problem is that the OP said he wanted to play on tour, which means stopping the ball.  The GI irons are super-forgiving of mis-hits, but there is a different kind of forgiveness needed here - absolute consistency in distance.  If he is still serious about wanting to be a tournament professional, mishits don't happen much (if at all) but a jump from a little GI help of 3 yards puts him bouncing through the Stimp 13 greens.

I hear your point and its a great one for 99.9% of golfers.  Just probably not this OP.  He's probably going to need to hit something below GI at some point so they (1) don't jump and (2) can be spun at will.

View Postsdandrea, on 03 December 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

a solid short game will serve you well for your entire golfing life.  When you get to be my age, it becomes critical.  I can no longer reach many par 4s in regulation, so chipping and putting has become the foundation of my game.

A solid short game is really important if you want to shoot 85.  If you are an aspiring tour pro, its the least important thing and it isn't close. The best way for an aspiring pro to improve his short game is to hit more greens.
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#49 Hescrience

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:41 PM

I see a lot of replies about the equipment..... I just demoed the
Ping g400
Titleist ap1 2 and 3
Cobra f7
Taylormade m2
All with stiff steel shafts
At golf galaxy!
Used a 7 iron from all sets
My average club head speed was 82.something
Average carry was 162 and total distance 184
So far the g400 is winning... by a lot... trying out drivers and woods in a couple days!
And yes... I just had the serious conversation with my family. Im in college full time but will carve out 3 hours a day every day except monday and wednesday to golf... somehow i have to survive only working 16-24 hours a week.(thank god for parents who support your dreams.) ive been told my swing looks great by the salesman at golf galaxy and a few other people throughout random pairings at courses. I think my foundation is very solid so itís time to attack this thing.
This community has bern very helpful and positive thus far. Heck yeah!

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#50 Hescrience

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 10:45 PM

Also... i see a lot of replies about improving the short game! Ironically i am best with my irons and wedges. My favorite club is my 56 degree!
I am definitely getting a 60 or 62 degree to go along with it.
I think the only club i dont feel at least semi positive about is my driver... can hit it 250-270 most times but i have to aim it left to get it to come back right and stay in play... no other club in my bag does that to me lol
I also have never really played out of the sand near the greens. I make it a point to aim way away from traps. Maybe i should hit into traps on purpose while playing to force myself into learning. My father was a few strokes from being a solid amateur tour golfer when he was my age but had my sister somewhat early in life so never got to see it through. Heís kinda living through me i guess! He is kind of my coach and hes a whiz from 80 yards in which i think is why im good there too. Ill keep posting updates. Thanks all


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#51 RodC

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 11:44 PM

View PostHescrience, on 02 December 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

3-5 months since i posted this... I am now regularly in the 75-85 range with more in the 70s than not. Haven't had a triple bogey in 6 rounds. Just hit my first hole in one today on a 160ish yard par 3... Family is supporting me by giving me a $1500 gift card to Golf Galaxy... Game is great, Life is great. (:

Iíve read all good posts and advice here, but ....,. If youíre really doing what you said youíre doing, maybe you should be giving the advice in here .... Tiger.

Going form 100s to 70s in such short time. Impressive or BS.  Either way enjoy it, itís your show

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#52 Hescrience

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:31 AM

In reponse to Wilsons comment right above mine. (Castaway is a top 5 movie for me!) What would I have to gain from lying on here? I canít think of a single benefit... but I welcome optimism/pessimism/criticism/skepticism.

Edited by Hescrience, 04 December 2017 - 12:32 AM.


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#53 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:50 AM

View PostHescrience, on 03 December 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

Also... i see a lot of replies about improving the short game! Ironically i am best with my irons and wedges. My favorite club is my 56 degree!
I am definitely getting a 60 or 62 degree to go along with it.
I think the only club i dont feel at least semi positive about is my driver... can hit it 250-270 most times but i have to aim it left to get it to come back right and stay in play... no other club in my bag does that to me lol
I also have never really played out of the sand near the greens. I make it a point to aim way away from traps. Maybe i should hit into traps on purpose while playing to force myself into learning. My father was a few strokes from being a solid amateur tour golfer when he was my age but had my sister somewhat early in life so never got to see it through. He's kinda living through me i guess! He is kind of my coach and hes a whiz from 80 yards in which i think is why im good there too. Ill keep posting updates. Thanks all

Professional golfers average about 2.76 strokes to hole out from the sand.  Which means if all you do is hack the ball out and two putt, you'll be almost as good as the best sand players in the world.  You'll lose roughly two tenths of a stroke to them for each bunker you hit into, maybe one or two a round.  In other words, if you can get out in one swipe, more than that is pretty worthless.

The driver is the most important singular club in your bag.  If you are serious about playing for a living at your age you are easily 30-40 yards too short right now at 250-270.  You need to get in the gym and add speed above everything else.  Hitting a 56*/60* wedge solid doesn't matter one bit if you top out at 270 on a 7300 yard course.

Finally, to echo my earlier post, play in events.  No offense, but 75 on a clear day with a few people you know on a course you've played before tells you nothing about how good you actually are - there are 10 caps who can do that once in a while.  Get in a tournament and find out where you actually stand.
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#54 matchavez

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:38 AM

View PostHescrience, on 09 August 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

First, let me start by saying I've only recently gotten obsessed with this game. (Played 2 times a week since March with the exception of a couple weeks here and there)
You can see my other post where I updated my progress and I think I have shown some promising things in the span of about 6 months.
Started out at the 95-105 mark and have dropped my score to 85-95 in that span.
The last couple months though I have plateaued! Argh!
I haven't had a single lesson and my equipment is not fitted towards me at all. Let me give you guys a list of what I use
Taylormade Burner driver/3 wood
Calloway Razr 5-9iron
Calloway big bertha(olddddd) 3-4iron(Please don't ask me how this happened lol I got my fathers hand me downs and he has slight anger issues when it comes to golf but who doesnt? They are in a lake somewhere)
The newest 56 degree wedge from Cleveland(It's the RTX 2.0)
Calloway Warbird 60 degree wedge
an old bronze golfsmith sand wedge
Taylormade '79 putter(It says '79 on it, it's not from 1979)

As you can see I have a whole bunch of brands and a whole bunch of differently aged clubs....
So I guess my question is. Is it really worth it to shell 2000+(estimate) on some new clubs/fitting?
Like.. I know lessons most definitely will improve my score. but the custom fitting/new clubs??
I am only 20 years old and honestly, If I can drop my score another 10 strokes by my 21st birthday in April then I am fully 100% prepared to give it a go at dedicating every day to this and becoming professional. It sounds like a stretch I know. But I gotta try it if I can get out of this hump.
Thanks for whatever you have to say on this topic! I appreciate all criticism and feedback!

One positive and one crappy thing to tell you.

Positive... damn, that's fast improvement.

Crappy... if you're worried about $2k on equipment, you won't ever become a pro. Not because of skill, but guys need a bankroll. You'll find that out soon enough.

Finally, as many have said, it is a game of plateaus. If you've hit one, it means that you have mastered what you know you are doing wrong. I'm not advocating for or against a coach, but you can't get right what you don't know is wrong. Are you tracking your stats? Your misses? How about your ball flight? Know your gaps? By carry? Do you know your iron distances by air temperature? Are you getting proper descent angle? How's your putting? What's your average second putt distance?

I'm just throwing out what's on the top of my head not to confuse, but to show that there is a lot of information within *your* game. If you don't know it, you can't use it to your advantage. For example, my short game was terrible. I didn't think it was that bad, but someone I knew well pointed it out. And I had plateaued. He asked me what my "system" was for playing shots within 100 yards. I didn't have a system. I didn't think about what got me a lower score.

Now, I step off every putt. I check the practice green with a "stock" putt that I hit, and pace off steps. Did the ball average 8 paces? 11? Whatever it is, I make very sure I can make my second putt. I may not always get the first, but it happens enough. The three-putts are way, way down. Shots from 25-100... I have a club, a distance, and a specific tempo partial shot. If I'm 38m away, it'll be my 54º. If I'm 45m, it's my gap wedge quarter swing. 52m is my pitch at a quarter swing. If I'm in between numbers, I take the larger distance, and choke up a smidge. All of that, and more, is my system.

Maybe you're not me, and everything is "feel". That's cool. Maybe you're exactly like this, and you need to find what works best with you. It may not help alone, but it can help focus your practice, help you make better decisions in-game, and can also free your mind from otherwise tough decisions. Do what works for you, but if you want to break 90 a lot, you're going to have to not have many double-bogeys. When you miss GIR, you have to grind out bogeys. When you hit GIR, you have to two-putt.

When you start breaking 80, then it's a lot more than that. But you're still toying with 100 on occasion, and 95 means you're blowing out a hole or two per round.

And after all that, I would absolutely get new equipment. Is it worth it? Well, sometimes learning on crap tools helps you understand how good new tools can be. OTOH, if you are remotely serious about things, why are you not worried about learning a bad habit from an ill-fitting club? You don't have to buy the priciest stuff; prior year models are just fine, and even preferable at times. If you need to save money, here's how you do it:

- Get fit, with specs, from an independent person not on commission
- Write them down and save it
- Scour used sites for something pretty close
- If you find something used, get new grips.


Good luck. And if you start breaking par, best of luck getting some backers.
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#55 matchavez

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:41 AM

View Postpinestreetgolf, on 03 December 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

The intermediate aim tip is the best tip in the thread.

yup

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#56 moonshine

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:48 AM

go see iteach if you are close to him!  Don't have to spend thousands...great used stuff out there just have to look...disagree 100% you don't need a good short game?  Pitching/chipping/sand can save your butt five shots a round!
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#57 pinestreetgolf

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:46 AM

View Postmoonshine, on 04 December 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

go see iteach if you are close to him!  Don't have to spend thousands...great used stuff out there just have to look...disagree 100% you don't need a good short game?  Pitching/chipping/sand can save your butt five shots a round!

The importance of your short game is directly related to how many greens you hit.  Bad players needs better short games because they hit fewer greens and in the context of a touring professional me and you as about 3 caps are very bad players (we are closer to 25 caps then them statistically).  If he has aspirations of being a touring professional, he should be hitting 15 a round-ish without pressure.  That means he's hitting 3 short game shots per 18.  I totally agree with you - if his goal was to become his club's champion or to be a scratch golfer, short game is vital. A scratch golfer hits about 8.5-9 greens per round, so of course their short game is much more important.  On tour, your short game is about as important as what color your shirt is.

Two things don't last long.  Dogs who chase cars and pros who putt for pars.

Edited by pinestreetgolf, 04 December 2017 - 11:47 AM.

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#58 oldsticksnewsticks

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 09:54 AM

You need to see a high quality teaching pro ASAP. You are in Florida -- there are almost too many incredible teaching pros in Florida. Take a lesson with a handful -- maybe even up to a half dozen. See who you like best, who you click with and who wants to fix your swing as opposed to teaching you a stock swing.

https://www.golfdige...s-state-ranking

Your teaching pro will tell you whether it makes sense for you to get new clubs now. Likely it will not, but if you do they will tell you. Follow what your teaching professional says and not what strangers on WRX think. You can already see there isn't really consensus advice other than see a teaching pro and practice.

If you continue to progress rapidly you will likely have a completely different bag in 18 months or even a year. But your teaching pro will help you make those decisions.

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#59 gvogel

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:53 PM

View PostHescrience, on 03 December 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

I see a lot of replies about the equipment..... I just demoed the
Ping g400
Titleist ap1 2 and 3
Cobra f7
Taylormade m2
All with stiff steel shafts
At golf galaxy!
Used a 7 iron from all sets
My average club head speed was 82.something
Average carry was 162 and total distance 184
So far the g400 is winning... by a lot... trying out drivers and woods in a couple days!
And yes... I just had the serious conversation with my family. Im in college full time but will carve out 3 hours a day every day except monday and wednesday to golf... somehow i have to survive only working 16-24 hours a week.(thank god for parents who support your dreams.) ive been told my swing looks great by the salesman at golf galaxy and a few other people throughout random pairings at courses. I think my foundation is very solid so it's time to attack this thing.
This community has bern very helpful and positive thus far. Heck yeah!

The Ping iron is always going to win out... in an indoor simulator.  Why?  It has a lighter shaft, so you will get more distance with it.  I assume that you are looking at distance numbers on an indoor screen.

Rule of thumb - heavier goes straighter, lighter goes farther.  You seem to have the ability to generate good club head speed.  The Ping iron shaft - which is a great shaft for a lot of players - may be fine on your best strikes, but the question is: whether you can hit 3/4 shots, maintain really good contact with all your shots, and keep the ball down in the wind.

When you get to the point that these things are important, it is time to get with a good fitter - outside, not inside at a big box store.  Or you will have to try different shafts until you get an idea of what works best.

By the way, I think Ping equipment is great, and I play a Ping driver, 4-wood and 7-wood.  However, I have never quite gotten OK with the offset and light shafts of the G series irons.  My own experience.
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