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Fade: Aim at the target and start it left, or aim left of the target and turn it right?


32 replies to this topic

#1 geesecougar2

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 09:04 AM

Was wondering how people typically play a power fade. Do you aim at the target and start it on a line left of the target expecting it to turn back to the target? Or do you aim left of the target expecting it to turn right to the target?

I have been trying to do the former, but I feel like I have to hood the clubface which feels awkward.

Thanks!

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#2 powerpushfade

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 09:19 AM

Personally I aim the club at the target, stand a little open, try to start it left, then let it fade back.  This keeps my arms in front of me better and my miss will usually be a straight pull along my body line,  but not out of play.

If I aim the club left then I tend to want to push it to the target.  This is when my miss starts going both ways because I will tend to drop it inside and hit hooks.  You have to do what works for you.

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#3 David C

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 09:20 AM

 geesecougar2, on 27 July 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

Was wondering how people typically play a power fade. Do you aim at the target and start it on a line left of the target expecting it to turn back to the target? Or do you aim left of the target expecting it to turn right to the target?

I have been trying to do the former, but I feel like I have to hood the clubface which feels awkward.

Thanks!

This is my normal shape but I used to draw it normally. I found as long as I was not cutting the hell out of it on a given day it was about finding my own spots to hit a strong shot that moves slightly. With driver I aimed square to where I wanted it to start. With an iron I set up square and moved the ball fractionally forward for a pull fade.

I know some people that have to aim left to accommodate it moving right.

To hit a strong, wide moving cut I aim where I want it to start, play they ball back and aim the face somewhere that 'feels' between there and the target.

I think it's best to stick to one shot shape and know how it feels to really move it if you have to.

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#4 cav5

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 09:44 AM

Don't know if this makes sense scientifically but I always attempt to work the ball down range. No ball position, alignment stuff. So i guess that would be orientate left and cut it.
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#5 Cicero

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 11:33 AM

I aim the face and my shoulders at the target with my feet a little open, and start it left.  If I want to hit it hard, I aim a little right, as my ball tends to start more left when swing harder.

Edited by Cicero, 27 July 2017 - 11:41 AM.


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#6 AJ Joseph

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 12:32 PM

 geesecougar2, on 27 July 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

Was wondering how people typically play a power fade. Do you aim at the target and start it on a line left of the target expecting it to turn back to the target? Or do you aim left of the target expecting it to turn right to the target?

I have been trying to do the former, but I feel like I have to hood the clubface which feels awkward.

Thanks!


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#7 AJ Joseph

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 12:41 PM

Aiming at the target and starting it left is also called "over the top" swing
If you have an inside to out swing the ideal fade would be. Aim feet and shoulders left. Same ball position as always on your shirts logo.    Here is tricky part. Open clubface to aim clubface at target. Swing normally.

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#8 ferrispgm

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 12:45 PM

I aim left of target and cut the ball back towards the flag....that way if it goes straight i'm still on the green and if i draw it a touch, i'm normally still on or just slightly off with plenty of green to work with.
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#9 powerpushfade

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:30 PM

 AJ Joseph, on 27 July 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Aiming at the target and starting it left is also called "over the top" swing
If you have an inside to out swing the ideal fade would be. Aim feet and shoulders left. Same ball position as always on your shirts logo.    Here is tricky part. Open clubface to aim clubface at target. Swing normally.
No it's not.  If you set your body left, take the club away on your body lines, then shallow the club, you are not over the top.

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#10 ferrispgm

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:42 PM

 powerpushfade, on 27 July 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

 AJ Joseph, on 27 July 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Aiming at the target and starting it left is also called "over the top" swing
If you have an inside to out swing the ideal fade would be. Aim feet and shoulders left. Same ball position as always on your shirts logo. Here is tricky part. Open clubface to aim clubface at target. Swing normally.
No it's not.  If you set your body left, take the club away on your body lines, then shallow the club, you are not over the top.

That's also how you hit a high push cut....the simplest way is to play the ball a little further forward and stand a fraction closer to the ball and swing normal for a fade....should start along stance line/face angle and cut back towards the right...the further forward and closer you stand, the more the ball cuts.  The opposite works for a draw.

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#11 powerpushfade

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:48 PM

View Postferrispgm, on 27 July 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

View Postpowerpushfade, on 27 July 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

View PostAJ Joseph, on 27 July 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Aiming at the target and starting it left is also called "over the top" swing
If you have an inside to out swing the ideal fade would be. Aim feet and shoulders left. Same ball position as always on your shirts logo.    Here is tricky part. Open clubface to aim clubface at target. Swing normally.
No it's not.  If you set your body left, take the club away on your body lines, then shallow the club, you are not over the top.

That's also how you hit a high push cut....the simplest way is to play the ball a little further forward and stand a fraction closer to the ball and swing normal for a fade....should start along stance line/face angle and cut back towards the right...the further forward and closer you stand, the more the ball cuts.  The opposite works for a draw.
My only point was it's not over the top.

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#12 Petunia Sprinkle

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:52 PM

I put the ball well forward, aim way right, and if I'm on my game, it only hooks about 10yds..

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#13 Nessism

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 03:02 PM

Nicklaus says to aim the club face at the target, then turn your body (shoulders, hips, feet) and align to the left of target.  When execute the swing along your body position.  In effect, you use your normal straight shot swing, but impact occurs with the club face open to your swing direction which makes the ball curve gently to the right (for a RH player).

Edited by Nessism, 27 July 2017 - 03:04 PM.

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#14 jslane57

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 03:06 PM

Driver to putter, I aim down the line I want the ball to start...
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#15 talfredson

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:23 PM

I have been hitting a push-fade for about the past 3 weeks. I Aim shoulders, hips, and feet down left side. Aim club face between the target and my feet. My swing thought is to swing right down the line my club is facing. My misses are 99.9% right. I have been hitting more fairways and my average driver distance is about the same when I was hitting a draw a month ago. Still tinkering with my irons as I'm pushing them a little more but I know I have an open club face with my irons. Working on keeping clubface square to ball on backswing as much as possible.


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#16 bph7

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:23 PM

It doesn't matter. The impact alignments for both shots are identical (ball doesn't know where you are "aiming"). Just do whatever is more comfortable.

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#17 powerfade66

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:18 PM

Pre-trackman every top player said aim face where you want to end up and body where you want to start. While if you actually do this technology has proven it to be wrong. Perhaps it worked because of their athletic ability and instincts telling them to release harder on their fade swing or else it will be lost right. I don't feel my fades with driver are much more consistent since the new laws of face needing to be left of target but right of path. I think a lot of that is uncertainty and not committing to the shot as much as I would if I had a hole that called for a slight draw. Generally I only try to fade on a tight dogleg right. In practice I'll get it most of the time but under pressure I feel like I ease up on it somewhat, the shaft kicks a little earlier and it comes out straighter than I'd like. Perhaps the old idea, though not technically correct, is better (for me at least) because I'll commit to it more and not feel like I also need to hold off the face a little.

There is also the idea that for a straight shot the face needs to be a little open anyway to allow for compression and the ball separating from the club forward of where it is set at address. That also means when you set the face at the target for a fade you are actually setting it up a little left.

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#18 bph7

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:47 PM

View Postpowerfade66, on 12 September 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

Pre-trackman every top player said aim face where you want to end up and body where you want to start. While if you actually do this technology has proven it to be wrong. Perhaps it worked because of their athletic ability and instincts telling them to release harder on their fade swing or else it will be lost right. I don't feel my fades with driver are much more consistent since the new laws of face needing to be left of target but right of path. I think a lot of that is uncertainty and not committing to the shot as much as I would if I had a hole that called for a slight draw. Generally I only try to fade on a tight dogleg right. In practice I'll get it most of the time but under pressure I feel like I ease up on it somewhat, the shaft kicks a little earlier and it comes out straighter than I'd like. Perhaps the old idea, though not technically correct, is better (for me at least) because I'll commit to it more and not feel like I also need to hold off the face a little.

There is also the idea that for a straight shot the face needs to be a little open anyway to allow for compression and the ball separating from the club forward of where it is set at address. That also means when you set the face at the target for a fade you are actually setting it up a little left.

It's really just a matter of feel vs real. We know for a fact that if you hit a shot with face pointing right at target, but path say 5* right, the ball is going to start essentially directly at the target (very slightly right to be technically correct) and then hook away. However, that does not mean that adjusting setup alignments to achieve this will necessarily result in these impact alignments. Those who point face at target and aim their body to right and successfully hit a push draw just have different impact alignments from where they set up (i.e. face is actually open to target and path is right of face). So those who say "aim face at target and body to where you want it to start" aren't wrong necessarily in terms of a feel that could work, but they are wrong to the extent that they think returning to impact at those setup alignments will result in the shot they want.

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#19 chrisgilly09

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:50 PM

Ahhhh, we havent had a good cp v cf conversation in a while! Haha I think it depends on the club for me, as its easier to hit pull fades with irons but tend to get too underneath with woods/hybrid to do that

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#20 powerfade66

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:59 PM

View Postbph7, on 12 September 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

View Postpowerfade66, on 12 September 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

Pre-trackman every top player said aim face where you want to end up and body where you want to start. While if you actually do this technology has proven it to be wrong. Perhaps it worked because of their athletic ability and instincts telling them to release harder on their fade swing or else it will be lost right. I don't feel my fades with driver are much more consistent since the new laws of face needing to be left of target but right of path. I think a lot of that is uncertainty and not committing to the shot as much as I would if I had a hole that called for a slight draw. Generally I only try to fade on a tight dogleg right. In practice I'll get it most of the time but under pressure I feel like I ease up on it somewhat, the shaft kicks a little earlier and it comes out straighter than I'd like. Perhaps the old idea, though not technically correct, is better (for me at least) because I'll commit to it more and not feel like I also need to hold off the face a little.

There is also the idea that for a straight shot the face needs to be a little open anyway to allow for compression and the ball separating from the club forward of where it is set at address. That also means when you set the face at the target for a fade you are actually setting it up a little left.

It's really just a matter of feel vs real. We know for a fact that if you hit a shot with face pointing right at target, but path say 5* right, the ball is going to start essentially directly at the target (very slightly right to be technically correct) and then hook away. However, that does not mean that adjusting setup alignments to achieve this will necessarily result in these impact alignments. Those who point face at target and aim their body to right and successfully hit a push draw just have different impact alignments from where they set up (i.e. face is actually open to target and path is right of face). So those who say "aim face at target and body to where you want it to start" aren't wrong necessarily in terms of a feel that could work, but they are wrong to the extent that they think returning to impact at those setup alignments will result in the shot they want.

I agree. That's the point I was making with better players making the old laws work. Or is it only for the purposes of making sense in a book/vhs. Even with that feel they wouldn't have any numbers in mind. Ask them to hit a fade and they'll do it. They won't get a protractor out and check. There's a great clinic Anthony Kim did with Tiger where they discuss this. Kim blew Tiger away with his shotmaking and how unscientific he was.


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#21 RighttoLeft

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:17 PM

Everyone is different, but if I want a smaller amount of curvature, I line up (club face and body lines) at the target and move my swingpath further inside-out or outside-in.
If I need a bunch of curvature (going around a tree or other obstacle directly in front of me) I line the face up to the desired starting line (with a little extra margin for error) and stance/body lines open or closed and from there swing along my stance/body line.

Trial and error has shown that this is the best way do manage intentional right to left and left to right curves.
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#22 getitdaily

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:41 PM

Always aim at the target and move it right from there. Key question is - what are you using for the target?

Is your target where you want the ball to end up or where you want it to start?

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#23 powerfade66

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 04:03 AM

Does anyone try slightly higher hands at impact for small fades and lower for small draws? Aiming left or right to allow for it of course but face pretty much square to stance line.

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#24 bluerrpilot

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:30 AM

I like to aim the club face at the target and my feet and shoulders on the intended start line.

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#25 jewofgolf

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:52 PM

So the technically correct answer is aim the body left of target, aim the face somewhere in between, and swing on the body plane. The ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the swing path direction.


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#26 BrianMcG

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:17 PM

I don't hit a power fade often, but when I do its when I was trying to hook the ball.

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#27 powerfade66

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:03 AM

 jewofgolf, on 14 September 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

So the technically correct answer is aim the body left of target, aim the face somewhere in between, and swing on the body plane. The ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the swing path direction.

Technically yes but there is a lot of "all things being equal" involved. I think it's about 87% towards face but if trying to peel a fade into a tight fairway where you know a straight shot will be dead it may not be enough. It's more pressure than setting up square down a straight hole and expecting it to go straight because there's generally less room for error if it doesn't fade. But, if it does you may have created twice as much fairway.

This is where the various tricks come in to make sure it does move somewhat - address it slightly out of the heel, stand a little closer with ball more forward, grip down, grip firmer in left hand and keep that through the ball, grip firmer with right heel pad on left thumb, tee it down, cup the left wrist going back, rotate left forearm to open the face going back, use left forearm to hold it open coming down, accelerate harder and for longer coming down to feel heel leading toe, higher hands such that loft points slightly right, weaker grip, high left arm into the follow through, keep face cutting the plane into follow through rather than rotating to the plane, extra stiff shafts, fatter grips, flat lie angles, face set open, weights in the toe, release wrists down and not over.... Any more?

Whatever you need to take the left side out of play. I'll only use 10 to 15 on each particular shot mind you. ;-)

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#28 premazipp

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 07:11 PM

Club face to target, setup and club path left of target.
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#29 Matt J

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 07:18 PM

I tend to try and pull a cut slightly and push a draw.

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#30 randyj

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:33 PM

 geesecougar2, on 27 July 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

Was wondering how people typically play a power fade. Do you aim at the target and start it on a line left of the target expecting it to turn back to the target? Or do you aim left of the target expecting it to turn right to the target?

I have been trying to do the former, but I feel like I have to hood the clubface which feels awkward.

Thanks!

I play a very reliable proper power fade with an in to out path. Might even consider it a touch of a push fade.

I line my body lines well left of the target, keep the face obviously open to my body lines, but the face is still a ways left of target. You want the ball to FINISH at the target, not start at it.


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