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Golf Course Superintendent Ready to Answer Any Questions You May Have


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#121 BNGL

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 02:40 AM

 schley, on 14 April 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

 BNGL, on 08 April 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:


We just had our biggest event of the season, and we got the place in the best shape I have ever seen (worked on tour, at US Opens, played some of the best courses in the world). I had 15 guys spend a total of 22.75 hours filling and repairing divots and ballmarks on greens. Over 340 man hours just repairing minimal damage.

Holy shishkabobs!  Is this number just once a year I assume?  Wow that is like 1 hour 15 minutes per green!  BTW any before and after photos of the green after this spa treatment?

Yes just once a year at that level of detail. Although it is a second job regularly through out the year. I'll have to find some other pics but this is the Tuesday after. Got a nice even coloration as a result of pumping then full of iron. We keep our greens pretty lean, which encourages speed via a thin leaf blade. Couple that with regular use of plant growth regulators (Primo) and toprdressing every Tuesday. We have a smooth, fast, frictionless putting surface. We were 13 feet 6 inches Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon when I was watering, I didn't measure, but they had to be 15 plus.

IMG_1523691359.154153.jpg


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#122 BNGL

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 03:07 AM

 ArtMBgolf, on 13 April 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

The Carolinas have winter kill problems this year on the greens, due to the worst winter in 40 years.
This is made worse by hybrid bermuda greens that are not overseeded.
Some courses that have good greens, used covers on the greens.    

Are green covers on cold nights going to become the norm, now that not overseeding greens is popular?

Perhaps. Studies have shown that covers are effective means of protecting putting surfaces. There's some northern Florida courses that have them to use in the really cold nights.

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#123 caniac6

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 05:03 AM

 BNGL, on 14 April 2018 - 03:07 AM, said:

 ArtMBgolf, on 13 April 2018 - 08:42 PM, said:

The Carolinas have winter kill problems this year on the greens, due to the worst winter in 40 years.
This is made worse by hybrid bermuda greens that are not overseeded.
Some courses that have good greens, used covers on the greens.    

Are green covers on cold nights going to become the norm, now that not overseeding greens is popular?

Perhaps. Studies have shown that covers are effective means of protecting putting surfaces. There's some northern Florida courses that have them to use in the really cold nights.
Some courses have had success putting a thin layer of pine needles under the covers to provide insulation. A memo from the CGA said there was WK showing up in some places where covers were used. Some of the fairways that retained a lot of water are showing signs of WK.

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#124 finleysg

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:15 AM

Catching up on this thread from several months of neglect, I was struck by the 20 year lifespan for greens. My home course is celebrating its 50 year anniversary in July, and the greens could really use a re-build, but it's a muni and that is just never going to happen. The poa makes for pretty bumpy putting surfaces until mid to late June when we finally get enough warmth at night to get the bent and the poa growing enough so that, at least in the morning, the grass is all the same length. Last year our super rolled the greens in the mid to late afternoon for our Wednesday night events, which helped to keep the ball rolling (slowly) on a line.

I don't know why, but our course never truly pops until July, and then the turf is typically great for the rest of the season.
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#125 mallrat

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:56 PM

 finleysg, on 14 April 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Catching up on this thread from several months of neglect, I was struck by the 20 year lifespan for greens. My home course is celebrating its 50 year anniversary in July, and the greens could really use a re-build, but it's a muni and that is just never going to happen. The poa makes for pretty bumpy putting surfaces until mid to late June when we finally get enough warmth at night to get the bent and the poa growing enough so that, at least in the morning, the grass is all the same length. Last year our super rolled the greens in the mid to late afternoon for our Wednesday night events, which helped to keep the ball rolling (slowly) on a line.

I don't know why, but our course never truly pops until July, and then the turf is typically great for the rest of the season.

Where are you located? This may be completely weird but you can go in the Northwest forum and our Poa thrives in the winter. Slightly longer cut and a regular roll and top dressing program.

 BNGL, on 14 April 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

 schley, on 14 April 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

 BNGL, on 08 April 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:


We just had our biggest event of the season, and we got the place in the best shape I have ever seen (worked on tour, at US Opens, played some of the best courses in the world). I had 15 guys spend a total of 22.75 hours filling and repairing divots and ballmarks on greens. Over 340 man hours just repairing minimal damage.

Holy shishkabobs!  Is this number just once a year I assume?  Wow that is like 1 hour 15 minutes per green!  BTW any before and after photos of the green after this spa treatment?

Yes just once a year at that level of detail. Although it is a second job regularly through out the year. I'll have to find some other pics but this is the Tuesday after. Got a nice even coloration as a result of pumping then full of iron. We keep our greens pretty lean, which encourages speed via a thin leaf blade. Couple that with regular use of plant growth regulators (Primo) and toprdressing every Tuesday. We have a smooth, fast, frictionless putting surface. We were 13 feet 6 inches Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon when I was watering, I didn't measure, but they had to be 15 plus.

IMG_1523691359.154153.jpg

Weird question but I donít see stripes or lines. Is that the camera or do you do that on purpose?


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#126 BNGL

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:19 PM

 mallrat, on 14 April 2018 - 08:56 PM, said:

 finleysg, on 14 April 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Catching up on this thread from several months of neglect, I was struck by the 20 year lifespan for greens. My home course is celebrating its 50 year anniversary in July, and the greens could really use a re-build, but it's a muni and that is just never going to happen. The poa makes for pretty bumpy putting surfaces until mid to late June when we finally get enough warmth at night to get the bent and the poa growing enough so that, at least in the morning, the grass is all the same length. Last year our super rolled the greens in the mid to late afternoon for our Wednesday night events, which helped to keep the ball rolling (slowly) on a line.

I don't know why, but our course never truly pops until July, and then the turf is typically great for the rest of the season.

Where are you located? This may be completely weird but you can go in the Northwest forum and our Poa thrives in the winter. Slightly longer cut and a regular roll and top dressing program.

 BNGL, on 14 April 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

 schley, on 14 April 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

 BNGL, on 08 April 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:


We just had our biggest event of the season, and we got the place in the best shape I have ever seen (worked on tour, at US Opens, played some of the best courses in the world). I had 15 guys spend a total of 22.75 hours filling and repairing divots and ballmarks on greens. Over 340 man hours just repairing minimal damage.

Holy shishkabobs!  Is this number just once a year I assume?  Wow that is like 1 hour 15 minutes per green!  BTW any before and after photos of the green after this spa treatment?

Yes just once a year at that level of detail. Although it is a second job regularly through out the year. I'll have to find some other pics but this is the Tuesday after. Got a nice even coloration as a result of pumping then full of iron. We keep our greens pretty lean, which encourages speed via a thin leaf blade. Couple that with regular use of plant growth regulators (Primo) and toprdressing every Tuesday. We have a smooth, fast, frictionless putting surface. We were 13 feet 6 inches Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon when I was watering, I didn't measure, but they had to be 15 plus.

IMG_1523691359.154153.jpg

Weird question but I don’t see stripes or lines. Is that the camera or do you do that on purpose?

Well this picture is before the mow, so you wouldn't see much of anything tbh. Our greens stripe up typically in the afternoons once we get some growth, but there's not much grain or leaf blade to lay down so not much visual striping, it is there just have to look closely. Our fairways and tees though stripe up beautifully every mow. For a little while we started burning in the pattern in, and it looked wonderful.

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#127 finleysg

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 10:43 PM

Poa in Minnesota thrives just enough to ruin bent grass greens.
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#128 BNGL

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 09:11 PM

 finleysg, on 14 April 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

Poa in Minnesota thrives just enough to ruin bent grass greens.

Yeah poa is a problem almost everywhere. I've got some popping in roughs, and collars now on greens yet. Just takes time and discipline to detail and remove it.

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#129 mallrat

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:47 AM

BNGL I have a weird question for you.

Looking at the collection areas while watching the RBC, they have their collection areas mowed in straight lines coming out from the greens. Is this something courses do? If so do the mowers go straight across the greens or turn on the greens?

I ask because we and most places iíve Played mow in circles out from the greens. We also donít ever turn our collection mowers on the greens. We even go so far as not to turn the carts on the greens when dragging them. If they turn on the greens does that put any extra stress on them

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#130 BNGL

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 01:16 AM

 mallrat, on 16 April 2018 - 12:47 AM, said:

BNGL I have a weird question for you.

Looking at the collection areas while watching the RBC, they have their collection areas mowed in straight lines coming out from the greens. Is this something courses do? If so do the mowers go straight across the greens or turn on the greens?

I ask because we and most places i’ve Played mow in circles out from the greens. We also don’t ever turn our collection mowers on the greens. We even go so far as not to turn the carts on the greens when dragging them. If they turn on the greens does that put any extra stress on them

It's called burning in the pattern. Basically you now the area the same direction everyday, not just the same direction but follow the exact same lines as well. Circles is just quicker because it typically follows the contour of the green. I seriously doubt they go across the greens. When I was doing tour events, we had 7-8 guys doing approaches, so they could start at one end and work around the green to the other in time to clear the course. I'd bet they have the same amount of labor helping out. There's also these things called turning boards, there's sheets of hard plastic about 3x4 that will be laid out in front of the mowers so that they can turn without damaging the turf.

As far as extra stress, yeah it definitely can if you're going over the same areas, but I think the benefits outweigh the potential damages. I know of crews that verticut their greens in the summer going in circles, to help make sure you're getting two directions. The biggest problem I see is the use of heavy and highly abrasive mats. All you need really is a piece of carpet on a frame that is plenty. I know that won't break up the cores as some like to do, but you should be removing those anyways


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#131 FlyingLaw1

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:03 AM

Couple of questions.

I used to work for a teaching pro. One of his assistants (he's been in the golf business for 60-something years) used to complain about aertaing greens and insisted that it was less necessary when golfers wore metal spikes as the spikes poked enough holes to allow the roots to get proper oxygen. Any truth?

How long does it take Zoysia to green up in the spring? I've heard you have to have several straight days of low temps above 50 but I really don't know how accurate that is.
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#132 BNGL

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:11 PM

 FlyingLaw1, on 16 April 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

Couple of questions.

I used to work for a teaching pro. One of his assistants (he's been in the golf business for 60-something years) used to complain about aertaing greens and insisted that it was less necessary when golfers wore metal spikes as the spikes poked enough holes to allow the roots to get proper oxygen. Any truth?

How long does it take Zoysia to green up in the spring? I've heard you have to have several straight days of low temps above 50 but I really don't know how accurate that is.

Not in an amount that will make a significant difference, although I can follow his train of thought. Aerating does more than promote exchange of gases, it relieves compaction, managing thatch layers and creating space for roots to grow. While metal spikes do penetrate the surface, most (if not all) metal spikes would not penetrate the surface enough to make a difference.

As far as zoysia it depends on your location and the type, I have Zeon Zoysia at my club and it stayed green almost all winter and is definitely green now (club is in Hobe Sound).

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#133 CMCSGolf

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:41 PM

Another Aeration question:

With it being spring, I always call and ask about greens before making a tee time.  Some of the courses tell me their greens are rolling well and they don't need to aerate this year.  Is this true that if greens are really good they don't need to aerate? Or are they just cheap and poorly run?  I can't imagine normal public courses would avoid aeration without repercussions down the line when they are good since every great course I've been to still aerates.

Would love yo know if they are full of it or just very savvy.

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#134 BNGL

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 05:39 PM

 CMCSGolf, on 16 April 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Another Aeration question:

With it being spring, I always call and ask about greens before making a tee time.  Some of the courses tell me their greens are rolling well and they don't need to aerate this year.  Is this true that if greens are really good they don't need to aerate? Or are they just cheap and poorly run?  I can't imagine normal public courses would avoid aeration without repercussions down the line when they are good since every great course I've been to still aerates.

Would love yo know if they are full of it or just very savvy.

Guys in the pro shop have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to Course conditions. Although I do understand not wanting to tell customers or members, "I do not know." They make up ludicrous stories to fit their narratives to keep the cash register running.

Courses need to aerate, we know too much information as to the benefits. Aeration creates space for root growth, opens channels facilitating an exchange of gases, removes organic matter from the soil, and reducing compaction.

I have had more phone calls and comments related to stuff the meat tubes in the shop have told members....not once have they been remotely close to right.

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#135 Noyes26

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:25 PM

Awesome thread BNGL. Thanks for taking the time. Iím sending you a PM if you donít mind! Thanks in advance.

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#136 mallrat

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:06 PM

 BNGL, on 16 April 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

 CMCSGolf, on 16 April 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Another Aeration question:

With it being spring, I always call and ask about greens before making a tee time.  Some of the courses tell me their greens are rolling well and they don't need to aerate this year.  Is this true that if greens are really good they don't need to aerate? Or are they just cheap and poorly run?  I can't imagine normal public courses would avoid aeration without repercussions down the line when they are good since every great course I've been to still aerates.

Would love yo know if they are full of it or just very savvy.

Guys in the pro shop have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to Course conditions. Although I do understand not wanting to tell customers or members, "I do not know." They make up ludicrous stories to fit their narratives to keep the cash register running.

Courses need to aerate, we know too much information as to the benefits. Aeration creates space for root growth, opens channels facilitating an exchange of gases, removes organic matter from the soil, and reducing compaction.

I have had more phone calls and comments related to stuff the meat tubes in the shop have told members....not once have they been remotely close to right.

Do you see more courses out there going to a solid tine aerification vs coring? Or do you ever see the industry moving that way or is that all pretty much a course by course basis?

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#137 BNGL

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 03:23 AM

 mallrat, on 16 April 2018 - 10:06 PM, said:

 BNGL, on 16 April 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

 CMCSGolf, on 16 April 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Another Aeration question:

With it being spring, I always call and ask about greens before making a tee time.  Some of the courses tell me their greens are rolling well and they don't need to aerate this year.  Is this true that if greens are really good they don't need to aerate? Or are they just cheap and poorly run?  I can't imagine normal public courses would avoid aeration without repercussions down the line when they are good since every great course I've been to still aerates.

Would love yo know if they are full of it or just very savvy.

Guys in the pro shop have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to Course conditions. Although I do understand not wanting to tell customers or members, "I do not know." They make up ludicrous stories to fit their narratives to keep the cash register running.

Courses need to aerate, we know too much information as to the benefits. Aeration creates space for root growth, opens channels facilitating an exchange of gases, removes organic matter from the soil, and reducing compaction.

I have had more phone calls and comments related to stuff the meat tubes in the shop have told members....not once have they been remotely close to right.

Do you see more courses out there going to a solid tine aerification vs coring? Or do you ever see the industry moving that way or is that all pretty much a course by course basis?

Short answer no. You gotta pull cores i.e. Remove material. While solid tines are beneficial, and depending on depth of the tines you can achieve different results. In the winter I'll tine needle tine pretty much every Tuesday, it'll help relieve compaction and vent the turf, but not to the extent of coring.

What is happening though is alternatives to coring, dryject is a newer method that cores and amends the turf with on machine. I think Merion may have done it three days before their club championship, and no one noticed. There's also a hydroject which uses water to blast holes. Both methods are aimed at reducing recovery times.

I know golfers dislike aerification time, but trust me supers hate it too. It's a slow process....but it's a necessary evil.

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#138 dhc1

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:17 AM

Question: on a dry day for a mid-atlantic course with A1/A4 greens, is it a sign of weakness if almost all ball marks on the green show dirt? Conversely, there are many courses where it's very hard to pierce through the grass to get to the dirt (i.e., the indentation never gets through the grass) even though the greens are cut short/fast.

Thanks!

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#139 BNGL

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:35 AM

 dhc1, on 17 April 2018 - 07:17 AM, said:

Question: on a dry day for a mid-atlantic course with A1/A4 greens, is it a sign of weakness if almost all ball marks on the green show dirt? Conversely, there are many courses where it's very hard to pierce through the grass to get to the dirt (i.e., the indentation never gets through the grass) even though the greens are cut short/fast.

Thanks!

Never worked on bent grass, or seen the property you are referring to, so I can only speculate.

If ballmarks are regularly showing dirt, that's a problem. But it can be a variety of things that cause weak turf; diseases, poor thatch management, too much irrigation.

Typically you're courses that cut shorter and roll faster are better managed. Cutting short and fast requires extra diligence. So as a result there's probably more cultural programs that go into those greens. Topdressing Being key. That sand when applied properly builds a firm base, almost a thin layer of cement, around the base of the plant. Standing up the shoots, giving a better cleaner cut. That's where the firmness comes from.

Also they could be new greens, new greens are always wicked firm because of the absence of a thatch layer which will build up as the plant grows.

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#140 mikedejong

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 02:05 PM

Can you settle an argument that we always have with buddies: do you place rakes inside or out of the bunkers? I worked on a maintenance crew for 20 years going through school and we always put them in the bunker, with the handles inline with the line of play. Then the mowers don't have to get off to move them when they mow the rough around the traps, and the rakes should not interfere with balls coming in as much. What do you do?
Thanks, Mike.

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#141 BNGL

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 02:22 PM

View Postmikedejong, on 17 April 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

Can you settle an argument that we always have with buddies: do you place rakes inside or out of the bunkers? I worked on a maintenance crew for 20 years going through school and we always put them in the bunker, with the handles inline with the line of play. Then the mowers don't have to get off to move them when they mow the rough around the traps, and the rakes should not interfere with balls coming in as much. What do you do?
Thanks, Mike.

It varies. My green committee wants them inside the bunkers in the flat areas so they aren't stopping balls on the sides or faces. Why the caddies cannot carry them I don't know.

Personally I like to place them on the outside of the bunker, opposite play (so if the bunker is on the left side of the fairway, rake goes on the left of the bunker). With handles pointed back towards the tee.

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#142 lawst4days

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:32 PM

Bngl,

I emailed my courses superintendent a few days back with questions about our greens. Here is the scenario.

Our course just changed our greens starting in June and ending in Sept or October. We went from bent to championship Bermuda. We are in North Carolina and have had issues with bent greens dying from summer heat and moisture. Our superintendent said the champ Bermuda would he up better in the heat.

For several months the greens we're in great shape. However now into spring we are seeing more and more dead/dormant spots. Some greens have really been hit hard. Some greens have up to 50% dead/dormant grass.

I sent an email to my superintendent to ask simply, why has this happened to the new greens we put in only 6 months back.

He wrote back that the weather has been cool and they have had issues over the winter. In my opinion basically blaming the weather being too cool for Bermuda and saying he was hoping the weather would break and heat up.

I personally feel like this is a scapegoat for my superintendent. Is it?

Other courses in our area have not been impacted the way ours has, even though they have the same type of grass. In fact I would venture to say of the 5 different courses I have played none have been impacted and the weather really hasn't been that bad.

One other course even started a greens conversion around the same time we did and also had issues with tarps freezing on top of the greens over winter and grass being ripped up. However the greens have already been taken care of on that course. I am not sure if this happened at our course but seems likely given the patterns on our greens.

I just need to know what I should say back to my superintendent as a follow up to his weather excuse.

I want to be informed enough so that I am not being mean or niave. But I do feel like weather is a common scape goat?



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#143 BNGL

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 03:56 PM

View Postlawst4days, on 24 April 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Bngl,

I emailed my courses superintendent a few days back with questions about our greens. Here is the scenario.

Our course just changed our greens starting in June and ending in Sept or October. We went from bent to championship Bermuda. We are in North Carolina and have had issues with bent greens dying from summer heat and moisture. Our superintendent said the champ Bermuda would he up better in the heat.

For several months the greens we're in great shape. However now into spring we are seeing more and more dead/dormant spots. Some greens have really been hit hard. Some greens have up to 50% dead/dormant grass.

I sent an email to my superintendent to ask simply, why has this happened to the new greens we put in only 6 months back.

He wrote back that the weather has been cool and they have had issues over the winter. In my opinion basically blaming the weather being too cool for Bermuda and saying he was hoping the weather would break and heat up.

I personally feel like this is a scapegoat for my superintendent. Is it?

Other courses in our area have not been impacted the way ours has, even though they have the same type of grass. In fact I would venture to say of the 5 different courses I have played none have been impacted and the weather really hasn't been that bad.

One other course even started a greens conversion around the same time we did and also had issues with tarps freezing on top of the greens over winter and grass being ripped up. However the greens have already been taken care of on that course. I am not sure if this happened at our course but seems likely given the patterns on our greens.

I just need to know what I should say back to my superintendent as a follow up to his weather excuse.

I want to be informed enough so that I am not being mean or niave. But I do feel like weather is a common scape goat?

Well first off it's naive, secondly I'm not quite comfortable advising this situation. There's so many variables that go into things, it's hard to arm chair quarterback, and for me to "arm" you with advice is wrong in my opinion.

A couple words of advice, you're super has no reason to lie to you or anyone. Zero. I'm only digging myself a hole for which they may fire me later on. Unless you have reason to doubt his honesty, (previous situations, not this one).

It's also near impossible to compare course conditions between area courses, or even green to green at your club. Each green is its own microclimate. It's been a funky winter, at least where I am in Hobe Sound, and growing in new greens with wild weather isn't an enviable situation.

If you're a member of a private club or of a greens committee, then you'll be in the kept in the loop (generally). But if not, I'd just leave it and give it a chance to get better. Growing season is almost here, and it should whatever the problem is, take care of itself.

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#144 spud3

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:14 PM

Perfectly answered.
"take that, you miserable
little white swine!"

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#145 duffer987

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:33 PM

Maybe a dumbish question, but is there any reason to not astroturf in a path over a commonly trodden route away from or to a teebox, versus not having something artificial, apart from aesthetics?

I don't mean hundreds of yards, but maybe just the 25-30yds leading away or two a teebox? You see this on a fair few links courses overseas and wondered if maybe the different soil, grasses make it easier to do.
Thanks!


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#146 lawst4days

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:34 PM

View PostBNGL, on 24 April 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

View Postlawst4days, on 24 April 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Bngl,

I emailed my courses superintendent a few days back with questions about our greens. Here is the scenario.

Our course just changed our greens starting in June and ending in Sept or October. We went from bent to championship Bermuda. We are in North Carolina and have had issues with bent greens dying from summer heat and moisture. Our superintendent said the champ Bermuda would he up better in the heat.

For several months the greens we're in great shape. However now into spring we are seeing more and more dead/dormant spots. Some greens have really been hit hard. Some greens have up to 50% dead/dormant grass.

I sent an email to my superintendent to ask simply, why has this happened to the new greens we put in only 6 months back.

He wrote back that the weather has been cool and they have had issues over the winter. In my opinion basically blaming the weather being too cool for Bermuda and saying he was hoping the weather would break and heat up.

I personally feel like this is a scapegoat for my superintendent. Is it?

Other courses in our area have not been impacted the way ours has, even though they have the same type of grass. In fact I would venture to say of the 5 different courses I have played none have been impacted and the weather really hasn't been that bad.

One other course even started a greens conversion around the same time we did and also had issues with tarps freezing on top of the greens over winter and grass being ripped up. However the greens have already been taken care of on that course. I am not sure if this happened at our course but seems likely given the patterns on our greens.

I just need to know what I should say back to my superintendent as a follow up to his weather excuse.

I want to be informed enough so that I am not being mean or niave. But I do feel like weather is a common scape goat?

Well first off it's naive, secondly I'm not quite comfortable advising this situation. There's so many variables that go into things, it's hard to arm chair quarterback, and for me to "arm" you with advice is wrong in my opinion.

A couple words of advice, you're super has no reason to lie to you or anyone. Zero. I'm only digging myself a hole for which they may fire me later on. Unless you have reason to doubt his honesty, (previous situations, not this one).

It's also near impossible to compare course conditions between area courses, or even green to green at your club. Each green is its own microclimate. It's been a funky winter, at least where I am in Hobe Sound, and growing in new greens with wild weather isn't an enviable situation.

If you're a member of a private club or of a greens committee, then you'll be in the kept in the loop (generally). But if not, I'd just leave it and give it a chance to get better. Growing season is almost here, and it should whatever the problem is, take care of itself.

I appreciate your candor!

Reading back now I understand it would sound like I am trying to devise a "witch Hunt" of sorts. I was just trying to understand some of the factors that could be at play. The reason I don't want to email back my super without being informed is because I don't want to be naive or start a "witch Hunt".  I just want to understand what factors of a moderate or cool climate  impact championship Bermuda.  I wouldn't have set out for answers if I didn't care.

I wanted a third party input, saw this forum and that you regularly reposted, and it seems as though I have gotten it.

I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this topic and that you have opened yourself up to questions. Even as naive as mine may be!



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#147 8overpar

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:38 PM

View PostBig Ben, on 06 February 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

Is it true that once a course is fully frozen and dormant that frost damage is no longer a concern? Living in Northeastern Ohio we are a hardy group and always try to convince the local courses to allow us to play when there's no snow! Thanks, great thread...BB
I would say it's not too much of a concern. Worked at a private/resort course, one of the three on the property. I can remember trying to cut a new hole and the hole cutter bounced back at me. Super wasn't within eye sight and tossed a ball about 10' in the air and bounced about 4', frozen! Players went on time still. Frost is the issue on Bentgrass. Nothing like boot prints in the afternoon showing after things thaw a bit, only one person did it, busted.
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#148 BNGL

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:26 PM

View Postduffer987, on 24 April 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

Maybe a dumbish question, but is there any reason to not astroturf in a path over a commonly trodden route away from or to a teebox, versus not having something artificial, apart from aesthetics?

I don't mean hundreds of yards, but maybe just the 25-30yds leading away or two a teebox? You see this on a fair few links courses overseas and wondered if maybe the different soil, grasses make it easier to do.
Thanks!

No reason I don't think, it's more up to the course and membership/ownership. I'm putting some in on a pathway leading from a green to a tee that goes through and landscape bed.

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#149 sui generis

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:41 PM

View Postmikedejong, on 17 April 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

Can you settle an argument that we always have with buddies: do you place rakes inside or out of the bunkers? I worked on a maintenance crew for 20 years going through school and we always put them in the bunker, with the handles inline with the line of play. Then the mowers don't have to get off to move them when they mow the rough around the traps, and the rakes should not interfere with balls coming in as much. What do you do?
Thanks, Mike.

Although you didn't ask me (I'm a Rules guy.) here's what the USGA has to say (It's found in the Rule 34 Decisions.) :

Misc./2 Whether Rakes Should Be Placed in or Outside Bunkers

Q. Should rakes be placed in or outside bunkers?

A. There is not a perfect answer for the position of rakes, but on balance it is felt there is less likelihood of an advantage or disadvantage to the player if rakes are placed outside bunkers.

It may be argued that there is more likelihood of a ball being deflected into or kept out of a bunker if the rake is placed outside the bunker. It could also be argued that if the rake is in the bunker it is most unlikely that the ball will be deflected out of the bunker.

However, in practice, players who leave rakes in bunkers frequently leave them at the side which tends to stop a ball rolling into the flat part of the bunker, resulting in a much more difficult shot than would otherwise have been the case. This is most prevalent at a course where the bunkers are small. When the ball comes to rest on or against a rake in the bunker and the player must proceed under Rule 24-1, it may not be possible to replace the ball on the same spot or find a spot in the bunker which is not nearer the hole - see Decision 20-3d/2.

If rakes are left in the middle of the bunker the only way to position them is to throw them into the bunker and this causes damage to the surface. Also, if a rake is in the middle of a large bunker it is either not used or the player is obliged to rake a large area of the bunker resulting in unnecessary delay.

Therefore, after considering all these aspects, it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball.

Ultimately, it is a matter for the Committee to decide where it wishes rakes to be placed.
Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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#150 mallrat

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 11:28 PM

View Postlawst4days, on 24 April 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

View PostBNGL, on 24 April 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

View Postlawst4days, on 24 April 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Bngl,

I emailed my courses superintendent a few days back with questions about our greens. Here is the scenario.

Our course just changed our greens starting in June and ending in Sept or October. We went from bent to championship Bermuda. We are in North Carolina and have had issues with bent greens dying from summer heat and moisture. Our superintendent said the champ Bermuda would he up better in the heat.

For several months the greens we're in great shape. However now into spring we are seeing more and more dead/dormant spots. Some greens have really been hit hard. Some greens have up to 50% dead/dormant grass.

I sent an email to my superintendent to ask simply, why has this happened to the new greens we put in only 6 months back.

He wrote back that the weather has been cool and they have had issues over the winter. In my opinion basically blaming the weather being too cool for Bermuda and saying he was hoping the weather would break and heat up.

I personally feel like this is a scapegoat for my superintendent. Is it?

Other courses in our area have not been impacted the way ours has, even though they have the same type of grass. In fact I would venture to say of the 5 different courses I have played none have been impacted and the weather really hasn't been that bad.

One other course even started a greens conversion around the same time we did and also had issues with tarps freezing on top of the greens over winter and grass being ripped up. However the greens have already been taken care of on that course. I am not sure if this happened at our course but seems likely given the patterns on our greens.

I just need to know what I should say back to my superintendent as a follow up to his weather excuse.

I want to be informed enough so that I am not being mean or niave. But I do feel like weather is a common scape goat?

Well first off it's naive, secondly I'm not quite comfortable advising this situation. There's so many variables that go into things, it's hard to arm chair quarterback, and for me to "arm" you with advice is wrong in my opinion.

A couple words of advice, you're super has no reason to lie to you or anyone. Zero. I'm only digging myself a hole for which they may fire me later on. Unless you have reason to doubt his honesty, (previous situations, not this one).

It's also near impossible to compare course conditions between area courses, or even green to green at your club. Each green is its own microclimate. It's been a funky winter, at least where I am in Hobe Sound, and growing in new greens with wild weather isn't an enviable situation.

If you're a member of a private club or of a greens committee, then you'll be in the kept in the loop (generally). But if not, I'd just leave it and give it a chance to get better. Growing season is almost here, and it should whatever the problem is, take care of itself.

I appreciate your candor!

Reading back now I understand it would sound like I am trying to devise a "witch Hunt" of sorts. I was just trying to understand some of the factors that could be at play. The reason I don't want to email back my super without being informed is because I don't want to be naive or start a "witch Hunt".  I just want to understand what factors of a moderate or cool climate  impact championship Bermuda.  I wouldn't have set out for answers if I didn't care.

I wanted a third party input, saw this forum and that you regularly reposted, and it seems as though I have gotten it.

I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this topic and that you have opened yourself up to questions. Even as naive as mine may be!

BNGL may offer something on this but from a greenskeeper who has a MILLION questions, be honest with your Super. I have not met a Super (and there are some cranky grumpy supers) yet who doesnít like to talk about turf and turf care. Now make sure you approach in a learning manner, ask to have a cup of coffee or walk a green with him. Donít make it just about the greens that arenít doing well but ask him about other questions. If you get him chatting, odds are his knowledge about things will dumbfound you.

Just another perspective and maybe he wonít have time and/or your schedules wonít work but imagine how much you donít like the dead patches on the greens now times that by 100 and that is how much he doesnít like them.

There is also the chance that he is just trying to ride out another season or 2 until retirement and is on cruise control.


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