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Greatest rock songs

Rockrock n roll Springsteen Led Zeppellin Hendrix Chuck Berry

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#1 CrabDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 01:12 PM

I have finally come around to agree with the notion that rock is dead...RIP, it was a good run. A few years back, an article stated that opinion, and compared it to jazz. People still make jazz, but it seems like the noteworthy accomplishments have all happened in the past, and never again will a jazz album top the charts. Anyway, it got me thinking about why rock has passed, or, more to the point, why can't people make good rock n roll anymore and, although the genre morphed and changed over time, what defined it.
Discussing what is "the greatest" of anything (golfer, quarterback, center, pitcher...) is almost always futile and inane.  This may be, as well, LOL, but music is a little different because great music withstands the test of time - there are no stats, no trophies, no technological advancements (I know what you might say, but it doesn't make somebody a better guitarist, etc...) that muddy comparisons between eras. I'm also throwing in a slight twist to this topic - the songs for this list should be the best examples of the genre, not necessarily the best song by an artist.   For example, Stairway to Heaven usually makes it to the top of "all time greatest rock songs" (not sure what criteria - records sold, critics' consensus,???), but I don't think it best exemplifies what rock n roll is...err, was. :(
When I think of rock n roll, it is powerful, loud, catchy, has an attitude, evokes some sort of visceral emotion, and generally grabs you by the throat for 3.5 - 4 minutes.  So, power ballads need not apply, and don't give me something from the Cocteau Twins (may be your favorite song, but, trust me, it's not the best rock song of all time). No sub-genres (metal, rockabilly, art rock, etc...)
My list has two noticeable omissions - Elvis and the Beatles. Elvis was a performer, more akin to today's music acts - didn't write his own songs (not critical that an artist write the song to make the list, but Elvis barely had any credits) and his guitar playing was not an essential part of the performance. Plus his music was rather polished compared to some of his contemporaries, lacking the raw edge that I consider to be the heart of rock n roll. The Beatles, as influential as they were, didn't generate much energy. I can't think of a song of theirs that jumps out as a shining example of the genre.
Last thing - an artist can only have one song on the list - they can only have one best example.
Without any further adieu:
1. Born To Run -  Bruce Springsteen. It pushes all the buttons - energy, angst, hope, fast, raw, cars (not a requirement, but it helps :yes: ). Just a really powerful thrill ride of a song that stirs emotion from the opening cord until it dumps you out on the curb 4.5 minutes later.

2. Rock n Roll - Led Zeppelin. Well, there's the name :rolleyes: ... a fast, powerful song from start to finish.

^^^Only two that I rank...

Johnny B Goode - Chuck Berry
Long Tall Sally - Little Richard
Hard to Handle - the Black Crowes
Roadhouse Blues - the Doors
Satisfaction - Rolling Stones  (Tough choice between this and Gimme Shelter. Satisfaction fits a little better... for now... I could be persuaded)
Back in Black - AC/DC   (Is there a catchier riff? No, there isn't)
All Along the Watchtower - Jimi Hendrix  (Could have gone w/Purple Haze, but Watchtower better showcases Hendrix's talent in a tighter package... writing by   Bob Dylan doesn't hurt)
My Generation - The Who  (Won't Get Fooled Again? Baba O'Riley? I'm going with the rougher edge)

Honorable mention:
Whole Lotta Shakin Goin On - Jerry Lee Lewis   (Could have gone with Great Balls of Fire, but like the more melodic WLSGO)
Fortunate Son - CCR
Tom Sawyer - Rush (Great performances in this song... but, there's also Spirit Of Radio and Working Man...hmmm)
Runnin' with the Devil - Van Halen
Welcome to the Jungle - GnR
White Room - Cream
Alive - Pearl Jam
Smells Like Teen Sprit - Nirvana
La Grange - ZZ Top

That's it, the HM list is getting too long, although I'm sure I've forgotten a couple songs. Pure coincidence that there are 10... but convenient.
What are your top ten?

Edited by CrabDaddy, 12 July 2017 - 01:15 PM.

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#2 golfandfishing

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:00 PM

Tons come to mind, nice list above.

Don't stop Believin' - Journey



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#3 priceless

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 03:15 PM

I guess I'm showing my age, but to me, the greatest song, or at least the all time best party song is Louie, Louie by the Kingsmen.

I don't think rock and roll is dead, it just evolved.   We now have soft rock, hard rock and country rock.   Since my favorite group is Lynyrd Skynyd, I would be in the country rock group.

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#4 bscinstnct

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 03:50 PM

Good topic. Have to give it some thought.

Off the top of my head, Ill take four songs/bands you mention, all great, and tell you songs that I like better than the ones you picked ; )


Bruce-Hungry Heart

Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack
I went out for a ride and I never went back
Like a river that don't know where it's flowing
I took a wrong turn and I just kept going


That's heavy, bud ; )

Zepp-Whole Lotta Love

How can you not go totally ape $hit when you hear that?

Doors- LA Woman

Halen-Outta Love Again

At 1:50, the "tink/boom to guitar rip is dope ; )



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#5 Markrip

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 05:34 PM

These are four songs the first time I heard them I was hooked
Born to Run - Springsteen
Life During Wartime - Talking Heads
Pride ( in the name of love ) - U2
London Calling - The Clash

Did someone really mention a Journey song ?

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#6 CrabDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 05:36 PM

View Postbscinstnct, on 12 July 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

Good topic. Have to give it some thought.

Off the top of my head, Ill take four songs/bands you mention, all great, and tell you songs that I like better than the ones you picked ; )


Bruce-Hungry Heart

Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack
I went out for a ride and I never went back
Like a river that don't know where it's flowing
I took a wrong turn and I just kept going


That's heavy, bud ; )

Zepp-Whole Lotta Love

How can you not go totally ape $hit when you hear that?

Doors- LA Woman

Halen-Outta Love Again

At 1:50, the "tink/boom to guitar rip is dope ; )


You coulda said Thunder Road...
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#7 MtlJeff

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 05:46 PM

OP have you ever read Chuck Klosterman? He has a nice chapter on rock and roll in his latest book "But what if we're wrong" centered around what songs we will most associate with the genre in the distant future.

I wasn't a big rock guy. Most would consider Metallica "metal" though some of their songs i'd say blurred the line. Especially as they got on in years. I loved Metallica
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#8 CrabDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 06:30 PM

View Postpriceless, on 12 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I guess I'm showing my age, but to me, the greatest song, or at least the all time best party song is Louie, Louie by the Kingsmen.

I don't think rock and roll is dead, it just evolved.   We now have soft rock, hard rock and country rock.   Since my favorite group is Lynyrd Skynyd, I would be in the country rock group.
Louie, Louie is definitely one of the classics, and, unlike many of the great songs from the 50's/60's, influenced by something other than the blues.

Re rock is dead:  I don't want to get sidetracked, but who is making anything remotely interesting these days? (Don't say Coldplay) The top grossing concert tours are guys in their 60's (U2) and 70's (Springsteen).
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#9 MtlJeff

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 06:31 PM

FWIW the song "rock is dead" by Marilyn Manson is fantastic
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#10 SixtySomePing

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 06:32 PM

Black Dog
Hotel California
More Than a Feeling
You Give Love a Bad Name
It's Only Rock & Roll (But I Like It)
Smoke on the Water (sorry)
We Won't be Fooled Again
Sharp Dressed Man
Jump
Stairway to Heaven

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#11 Fellaheen51

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 06:36 PM

Baba O'Riley - The Who
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - Da Stones
Purple Haze - Hendrix
Layla - Derek and the Dominoes
Sweet Child O' Mine - Guns N' Roses
Like a Rolling Stone - Dylan (goes electric)
A Day in the Life - Beatles
How Many More Times - Zep

And just because Ronnie was singing to me......Be My Baby - The Ronettes (Wall of Sound)
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#12 dukeman

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 06:43 PM

View PostCrabDaddy, on 12 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Postpriceless, on 12 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I guess I'm showing my age, but to me, the greatest song, or at least the all time best party song is Louie, Louie by the Kingsmen.

I don't think rock and roll is dead, it just evolved.   We now have soft rock, hard rock and country rock.   Since my favorite group is Lynyrd Skynyd, I would be in the country rock group.
Louie, Louie is definitely one of the classics, and, unlike many of the great songs from the 50's/60's, influenced by something other than the blues.

Re rock is dead:  I don't want to get sidetracked, but who is making anything remotely interesting these days? (Don't say Coldplay) The top grossing concert tours are guys in their 60's (U2) and 70's (Springsteen).

Nobody is making anything interesting because nobody can play guitar anymore. Chuck Berry, Jimmy page, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix,  Eddie Van Halen, Stevie Ray Vaughan????? I got nobody that combines technical proficiency with any kind of musicality or originality.

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#13 CrabDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 06:44 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 12 July 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

OP have you ever read Chuck Klosterman? He has a nice chapter on rock and roll in his latest book "But what if we're wrong" centered around what songs we will most associate with the genre in the distant future.

I wasn't a big rock guy. Most would consider Metallica "metal" though some of their songs i'd say blurred the line. Especially as they got on in years. I loved Metallica
Never heard of Chuck Klosterman, but I'll give him a Google. I know, you're more of a Wu Tang, NWA kinda guy... minus the Compton zip code and lengthy criminal record. Enter Sandman was a consideration and definitely iconic, but I felt like Metallica was more of a sub-genre, like the previously mentioned Lynyrd Skynyrd.
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#14 MtlJeff

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:00 PM

View PostCrabDaddy, on 12 July 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 12 July 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

OP have you ever read Chuck Klosterman? He has a nice chapter on rock and roll in his latest book "But what if we're wrong" centered around what songs we will most associate with the genre in the distant future.

I wasn't a big rock guy. Most would consider Metallica "metal" though some of their songs i'd say blurred the line. Especially as they got on in years. I loved Metallica
Never heard of Chuck Klosterman, but I'll give him a Google. I know, you're more of a Wu Tang, NWA kinda guy... minus the Compton zip code and lengthy criminal record. Enter Sandman was a consideration and definitely iconic, but I felt like Metallica was more of a sub-genre, like the previously mentioned Lynyrd Skynyrd.

Wu-Tang and Metallica! Pretty much all i listened to growing up
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#15 toddnt

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:04 PM

Machine Gun--- Band of Gypsies(Jimi)


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#16 CrabDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:23 PM

View Postdukeman, on 12 July 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

View PostCrabDaddy, on 12 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Postpriceless, on 12 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I guess I'm showing my age, but to me, the greatest song, or at least the all time best party song is Louie, Louie by the Kingsmen.

I don't think rock and roll is dead, it just evolved.   We now have soft rock, hard rock and country rock.   Since my favorite group is Lynyrd Skynyd, I would be in the country rock group.
Louie, Louie is definitely one of the classics, and, unlike many of the great songs from the 50's/60's, influenced by something other than the blues.

Re rock is dead:  I don't want to get sidetracked, but who is making anything remotely interesting these days? (Don't say Coldplay) The top grossing concert tours are guys in their 60's (U2) and 70's (Springsteen).

Nobody is making anything interesting because nobody can play guitar anymore. Chuck Berry, Jimmy page, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix,  Eddie Van Halen, Stevie Ray Vaughan????? I got nobody that combines technical proficiency with any kind of musicality or originality.
Absolutely! What happened to the next generation? There was grunge, then the Foo Fighters kept the torch lit after that faded, and then... pretty much nothing.
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#17 SixtySomePing

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:32 PM

View Postdukeman, on 12 July 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

View PostCrabDaddy, on 12 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Postpriceless, on 12 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I guess I'm showing my age, but to me, the greatest song, or at least the all time best party song is Louie, Louie by the Kingsmen.

I don't think rock and roll is dead, it just evolved.   We now have soft rock, hard rock and country rock.   Since my favorite group is Lynyrd Skynyd, I would be in the country rock group.
Louie, Louie is definitely one of the classics, and, unlike many of the great songs from the 50's/60's, influenced by something other than the blues.

Re rock is dead:  I don't want to get sidetracked, but who is making anything remotely interesting these days? (Don't say Coldplay) The top grossing concert tours are guys in their 60's (U2) and 70's (Springsteen).

Nobody is making anything interesting because nobody can play guitar anymore. Chuck Berry, Jimmy page, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix,  Eddie Van Halen, Stevie Ray Vaughan????? I got nobody that combines technical proficiency with any kind of musicality or originality.

Try Joe Bonamassa, he's my favorite now, if you want technical proficiency, musicality and originality. The dude's been playing since he was 5...
https://www.youtube....j3s8Y4s         https://jbonamassa.com/
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#18 CrabDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:38 PM

I'm not criticizing anyone's choices - it's entirely personal. We all like whatever makes the dopamine drip in our brains. Another way of posing my question... if an alien landed on earth and asked, "What is this rock n roll we heard about?". What are the first 10 songs you play as examples? Not necessarily your most favorite. I might prefer Zeppelin's The Ocean, Custard Pie, Bring It On Home as my favorites, but Rock n Roll is a better example of what rock n roll is all about.
Regardless, keep em coming!
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#19 CrabDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:54 PM

View PostSixtySomePing, on 12 July 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

View Postdukeman, on 12 July 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

View PostCrabDaddy, on 12 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Postpriceless, on 12 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I guess I'm showing my age, but to me, the greatest song, or at least the all time best party song is Louie, Louie by the Kingsmen.

I don't think rock and roll is dead, it just evolved.   We now have soft rock, hard rock and country rock.   Since my favorite group is Lynyrd Skynyd, I would be in the country rock group.
Louie, Louie is definitely one of the classics, and, unlike many of the great songs from the 50's/60's, influenced by something other than the blues.

Re rock is dead:  I don't want to get sidetracked, but who is making anything remotely interesting these days? (Don't say Coldplay) The top grossing concert tours are guys in their 60's (U2) and 70's (Springsteen).

Nobody is making anything interesting because nobody can play guitar anymore. Chuck Berry, Jimmy page, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix,  Eddie Van Halen, Stevie Ray Vaughan????? I got nobody that combines technical proficiency with any kind of musicality or originality.

Try Joe Bonamassa, he's my favorite now, if you want technical proficiency, musicality and originality. The dude's been playing since he was 5...
https://www.youtube....j3s8Y4s         https://jbonamassa.com/

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#20 CrabDaddy

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:02 PM

View Postbscinstnct, on 12 July 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

Good topic. Have to give it some thought.

Off the top of my head, Ill take four songs/bands you mention, all great, and tell you songs that I like better than the ones you picked ; )


Bruce-Hungry Heart

Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack
I went out for a ride and I never went back
Like a river that don't know where it's flowing
I took a wrong turn and I just kept going


That's heavy, bud ; )

Zepp-Whole Lotta Love

How can you not go totally ape $hit when you hear that?

Doors- LA Woman

Halen-Outta Love Again

At 1:50, the "tink/boom to guitar rip is dope ; )


Another sidetrack: You brought up LA Woman. Why don't today's bands cover older songs? LZ made a career by taking Willie Dixon's and Robert Johnson's songs and making them their own. The Doors had a unique sound that could be morphed into something that sounds much different, and who would not want to sing the line  "Mr. Mojo Risin'"?

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#21 chickenpotpie

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:28 PM

I wish I could get into Springsteen, but I just can't, outside of Born in the USA (and political differences notwithstanding).  I've tried to like B2R, and for the most part it's good except for that weird part in the middle/end where they do an awkward transition (IMO).

Pearl Jam is my all time favorite.  Too many good songs to list, and sadly, the ones that people often cite aren't even the best ones on the album.  Alive and Jeremy fit that bill.
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#22 bscinstnct

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:43 PM

View Postdukeman, on 12 July 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

View PostCrabDaddy, on 12 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Postpriceless, on 12 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I guess I'm showing my age, but to me, the greatest song, or at least the all time best party song is Louie, Louie by the Kingsmen.

I don't think rock and roll is dead, it just evolved.   We now have soft rock, hard rock and country rock.   Since my favorite group is Lynyrd Skynyd, I would be in the country rock group.
Louie, Louie is definitely one of the classics, and, unlike many of the great songs from the 50's/60's, influenced by something other than the blues.

Re rock is dead:  I don't want to get sidetracked, but who is making anything remotely interesting these days? (Don't say Coldplay) The top grossing concert tours are guys in their 60's (U2) and 70's (Springsteen).

Nobody is making anything interesting because nobody can play guitar anymore. Chuck Berry, Jimmy page, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix,  Eddie Van Halen, Stevie Ray Vaughan????? I got nobody that combines technical proficiency with any kind of musicality or originality.

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#23 Go_Blue!

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 09:51 PM

BRUCE. One of the best storytellers I have ever seen. His lyrics are pure poetry.
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#24 Qqq123xx

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:03 AM

No specific group but probably my favorite song is 'Going Down.'

J.J. Cale and Leon Russell, Jeff Beck, Popa Chubby among the many who have ripped this song a new one.

Concert I went to had Jeff Beck open for Stevie Ray Vaughan and their encore was a 15 minute version of this song. Serious hog heaven. Back and forth solos.
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#25 Qqq123xx

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:06 AM

Specific group

Deep Purple Highway Star.

The only band that matters btw :busted_cop: :stop: :taunt: :D

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#26 Hankshank

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:55 AM

Go into Youtube, search "green day goat island whole concert". And dont stop because youre not a Green Day fan. And examine the reactions to different songs from the crowds. They know them all, it was an invited audience among real fans. They will kind of lukewarm dig to songs with the tempo of "Born to run". But when first accords of "hitching a ride" are played they just explode. Even though that song was pretty old at the time. For those of you that do not know, a song with the profile of "Jonny B Goode".

Rock at its core is three accords, boogie and bouncing. The kind of intellectual touch that is added with Bruce, with Led Zeppelin, Oasis or Coldplay is to attact the masses that wants something that matches a sense of being cool at parties.

Real rock has always been there for those who wants it and it's still there if you search a little nowadays. Dinner party coolness is almost as strong as in the 80's when even myself was party cool, and when no rock at all was produced.

Some prominent examples of real rock through time would be:

Johnny B goode
I saw her standing there - Beatles
Around and Around - Stones Live(Best Chuck cover)
I'm going home
Break the Rules - Status
Rocker - AC/DC
Watching the Clothes - Pretenders
Rawhide - DK
Tush - ZZ top

Then you have to make a like 15 year leap

Basket Case - Green Day
Come out and Play - Offspring
Hitching a ride - Green Day
Stuck in America - Sugarcult
Red Flag - Billy Talent

Then, admittedly, it has become more difficult but i think it's just a temporary setback. There are good stuff coming now, like The Strokes (check out In Cover of Darkness). Kids will bounce as much now, the genome has not changed in one generation. Rock combined the african rythm with the european harmonies to perfection and that will not easily go away, even though its not something for project leaders that are hungry for careers type of people. If I want poetry or beautiful prose I read William Blake, Nils Ferlin or Carlos Ruiz Zafon. It wasn't the brightest thing my fellow countrymen did when they throwed the Nobel Prize on Dylan, right?

Edited by Hankshank, 13 July 2017 - 01:13 AM.


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#27 scomac2002

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:17 AM

Strangely enough, I found my ten.  Ask me tomorrow and they maybe different...

In no particular order:

Won't Get Fooled Again -- The Who
All Along the Watchtower -- Jimi Hendrix
A Day in the Life -- The Beatles
Suite Judy Blue Eyes -- CSNY
25 or 6 to 4 -- Chicago
Black Magic Women -- Santana
The Royal Scam -- Steelye Dan
Even Flow -- Pearl Jam
Crime of the Century -- Supertramp
Levon -- Elton John

Hard to believe that there's no SRV, no Skynnyrd, no Allman Bros., no Zepplin, Genesis or Floyd.  Tomorrow, it's another list!
Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!

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#28 SixtySomePing

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:44 AM

View PostCrabDaddy, on 12 July 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

View PostSixtySomePing, on 12 July 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

View Postdukeman, on 12 July 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

View PostCrabDaddy, on 12 July 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Postpriceless, on 12 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I guess I'm showing my age, but to me, the greatest song, or at least the all time best party song is Louie, Louie by the Kingsmen.

I don't think rock and roll is dead, it just evolved.   We now have soft rock, hard rock and country rock.   Since my favorite group is Lynyrd Skynyd, I would be in the country rock group.
Louie, Louie is definitely one of the classics, and, unlike many of the great songs from the 50's/60's, influenced by something other than the blues.

Re rock is dead:  I don't want to get sidetracked, but who is making anything remotely interesting these days? (Don't say Coldplay) The top grossing concert tours are guys in their 60's (U2) and 70's (Springsteen).

Nobody is making anything interesting because nobody can play guitar anymore. Chuck Berry, Jimmy page, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix,  Eddie Van Halen, Stevie Ray Vaughan????? I got nobody that combines technical proficiency with any kind of musicality or originality.

Try Joe Bonamassa, he's my favorite now, if you want technical proficiency, musicality and originality. The dude's been playing since he was 5...
https://www.youtube....j3s8Y4s https://jbonamassa.com/


Great guitar players here....
https://www.youtube....h?v=ZztYiIqx8XI :)

Edited by SixtySomePing, 13 July 2017 - 03:51 AM.

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#29 RIRider

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:48 AM

View PostFellaheen51, on 12 July 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

Baba O'Riley - The Who
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - Da Stones
Purple Haze - Hendrix
Layla - Derek and the Dominoes
Sweet Child O' Mine - Guns N' Roses
Like a Rolling Stone - Dylan (goes electric)
A Day in the Life - Beatles
How Many More Times - Zep

And just because Ronnie was singing to me......Be My Baby - The Ronettes (Wall of Sound)

Thank you!! I can't believe it took 11 posts to get Layla in the conversation.

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#30 Petethreeput

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:37 AM

I tend to think of top ten as being "firsts" or most influential and opening doors to a genre to follow. I also agree with the OP that it has to grab you, and either make you want to dance or sing along.  So that is my criteria.

Johnny B Goode - Berry
Hey Joe - Hendrix
Heroin - Lou Reed/ Velvet Underground (I am very partial to live version)
War Pigs- Black Sabbath
My Generation- The Who
Rosalita - Springsteen
Psychokiller- Talking Heads
Cortez the Killer - Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana
Radio Free Europe - REM

I didn't necessarily pick my favorite songs of these bands, but to me they exemplify the beginning of something that followed. Tho, I challenge anyone to listen to Rosalita and not turn it up and not sing along when he gets his big advance... it isn't possible, even when my kids were in pre-school they knew about this development.

Edited by Petethreeput, 13 July 2017 - 08:16 AM.


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