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America's 20 toughest golf courses

golf course toughest

44 replies to this topic

#31 mpoco

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 06:44 PM

TCC (Brookline) belongs on this list. Thick long rough and fescue on nearly every hole in addition to the smallest greens make scoring here very tough.


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#32 raynorfan1

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:03 PM

View PostRoadking2003, on 12 July 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

View Postrblmp32, on 12 July 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:


No I shouldn't.  I'm a 2 handicap.  The course rating is much more accurate than slope for me.  

OK, but not for 90% of the guys on this board.  Both numbers are quite useful.

In the context of the Golf Digest rankings, course rating is the relevant metric - they evaluate based on how hard a course is for a scratch golfer from the back tees.

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#33 rblmp32

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:15 PM

View PostRoadking2003, on 12 July 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

View Postrblmp32, on 12 July 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

No I shouldn't.  I'm a 2 handicap.  The course rating is much more accurate than slope for me.  

OK, but not for 90% of the guys on this board.  Both numbers are quite useful.

Agree for sure.  :)

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#34 Charleston Green Apparel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:18 AM

View Postrblmp32, on 11 July 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

View PostCharleston Green Apparel, on 11 July 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

Pacific Dunes is a joke...it's 6500 yards with decently wide fairways.

PV and Spyglass being rated that high is wrong too. Bethpage is the toughest. Should be #1 on any list. Ocean course is only when the wind blows. When it doesn't, it is scoreable. I haven't found a scoreable day on the Black yet.

Pound Ridge should be added to that list. Might be the second toughest course I've played.

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#35 Roadking2003

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 01:18 PM

View Postraynorfan1, on 12 July 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

View PostRoadking2003, on 12 July 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

View Postrblmp32, on 12 July 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

No I shouldn't.  I'm a 2 handicap.  The course rating is much more accurate than slope for me.  

OK, but not for 90% of the guys on this board.  Both numbers are quite useful.

In the context of the Golf Digest rankings, course rating is the relevant metric - they evaluate based on how hard a course is for a scratch golfer from the back tees.

That's fine, but in the context of what I (and most golfers on this board) consider toughest, I will look at slope.  My 8.7 index means my scores typically range from 80 to 90, so slope is quite appropriate.   When I play a new course I always look at slope to determine which tees to play.

Maybe there should be two rankings because they would produce different results;  rating and slope.


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#36 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 05:39 PM

I imagine the rankings are based on slope and rating. If so anyone could have made this list.

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#37 raynorfan1

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 06:23 PM

View Postmpoco, on 12 July 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

TCC (Brookline) belongs on this list. Thick long rough and fescue on nearly every hole in addition to the smallest greens make scoring here very tough.

TCC is an interesting one, because they have huge discretion over how the course plays. They can water the fescue (unlike most courses, they have computer controlled sprinklers on every square inch of the property - including the rough), double roll the greens, and put the tees way back. They could have that course ready to host an over-par US Open in two weeks.

But for member play, they mostly keep it reasonable. Not easy. But not impossible. Most raters see it in this condition (unlike Oakmont or Pine Valley, which are kept at 11 on a scale from 1-10...) and under-rate just how tough the course is on a tournament day.

I think if I shot <80 in a tournament on the championship course, I would quit golf, feeling confident that I had totally mastered the game.

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#38 AceCatKY

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:56 PM

International Golf Club, The (Pines) - Gold Tees:  8,325 yards 81.7/155

Edited by AceCatKY, 15 July 2017 - 09:57 PM.

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#39 AceCatKY

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 10:01 PM

If going by course rating and slope: http://res.dallasnew...lf/cover-5.html
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#40 Texsport

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:45 AM

I'd nominate The Quarry @ Giants Ridge in northern Minnesota.

Rated at 75.6 with a slope of 146, I think it's difficulty is under rated for several reasons.

1 - It's all bent gras and though it's 7201 yds on the card, it plays much longer because it's all carry - little roll. It plays more like 7500 yds IMO.

2 - The greens are enormous, allowing the course to be stretched at least 10 yes longer on every hole, making it potentially 7400 yds.

3 - The most difficult holes on most courses are the par 4s, and the Quarry sports par 4s of 444, 468, 477, and 486 yds - all carry.

4 - It has a 269 yd par 3

5 - Big elevation changes make distance judgement difficult.

6 - When the Minnesota PGA had it's pro sectional tournament there, half the field failed to break 80, even though some of the holes were played from the middle tees.(Some lady pros participated and yardages were modified on some holes to accommodate them - so the men's distances were affected)

It's an absolutely spectacular course and always in immaculate condition - rated at #30 in Golf Digest's Best Public/Resort Courses.

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Edited by Texsport, 02 August 2017 - 07:29 AM.

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#41 Grizz06

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:56 AM

View PostTexsport, on 17 July 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:

I'd nominate The Quarry @ Giants Ridge in northern Minnesota.

Rated at 75.6 with a slope of 146, I think it's difficulty is under rated for several reasons.

1 - It's all bent gras and though it's 7201 yes on the card, it plays much longer because it's all carry - little roll. It plays more like 7500 yds IMO.

2 - The greens are enormous, allowing the course to be stretched at least 10 yes longer on every hole, making it potentially 7400 yds.

3 - The most difficult holes on most courses are the par 4s, and the Quarry sports par 4s of 444, 468, 477, and 486 yds - all carry.

4 - It has a 269 yd par 3

5 - Big elevation changes make distance judgement difficult.

6 - When the Minnesota PGA had it's pro sectional tournament there, half the field failed to break 80.

It's an absolutely spectacular course and always in immaculate condition - rated at #30 in Golf Digest's Best Public/Resort Courses.

Texsport

I will agree with Texsport here and I've never dared playing the tips.  I get it out there pretty good and even the blue tees take a lot out of me.  That being said, it's freaking beautiful and I've scored pretty well there but I've felt the penalty side as well!   my scores there a few weeks ago were 79-96-76 (blue). It was a good 96:)

For those that have played pound ridge is it really as amazing looking as the website makes it out to be?  tricked out or not the website makes it look amazing!

I have played Hazeltine from the tips and that was extremely taxing.  I hit it well, scored sh*tty and if it wasn't the company I was with wouldn't do it over.

Edited by Grizz06, 17 July 2017 - 11:59 AM.


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#42 Roadking2003

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:02 AM

View PostTexsport, on 17 July 2017 - 08:45 AM, said:


5 - Big elevation changes make distance judgement difficult.

This is true and often overlooked.

Elevation changes are one of the most misunderstood features of a golf course.  Selecting the proper club is a challenge and several factors come into play, such as;

-  Club loft.  Higher lofted clubs are impacted less by both uphill and downhill shots since their trajectory is almost straight down when they drop. Lower lofted clubs are impacted more on both uphill and downhill shots.

-  Stance.  Hitting up to a green from a flat lie is much different than hitting up to a green from an uphill lie.  Same for downhill.

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#43 Stein3282

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 08:33 PM

View PostSpicoli, on 12 July 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

I thought the RTJ trail courses were all a true test, then I watched pros post double digits unders at last year's barbasol at Grand National...

Let them play RTJ The Judge from the Black tees. Good Luck!

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#44 OutBackHack

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 11:19 AM

Bethpage with the rough up has got to be the toughest course in America.
Then I would vote Bethpage with the cabbage cut down, closely followed by Bethpage.
F'n love that track.

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#45 johnjingle

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 06:52 PM

Pinehurst #2 is the only course I've played on the OPs list but I thought Dubsdread at Cog Hill was the hardest course I've played. Long, tall rough, every green is elevated and plenty of OB surrounding them. Tiger went 19 under in 2009 to win the BMW Championship with a 62 on Saturday so I guess its not that hard...

http://www.golf.com/...vent-not-course


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