[The Ultimate Spin]

I've been told that golf is not a sport, I disagree. And when others try to belittle golf it kind of makes me mad.

When playing by golf by the USGA rules I think it definitely qualifies as much as basketball does.

I could see it being a game if your riding carts around the course, giving mulligans and such. Just as playing around the world isn't playing basketball.


My 2 cents.

[animalistic]

sport..without a doubt!

[dlygrisse]

This is about the 3rd time I have seen this thread started on this forum, but to answer your question, it is a sport. Games are played on boards or on TV monitors. Chess, X-box, WI, Checkers, Life, Monopoly, poker etc.
Sports are played with equipment by humans and require hand eye coordination and physical skill. They dont necessaily require endurance, and you dont have to be a great athelete to play a sport. examples, golf, archery, basketball, hockey, tennis, futbol, soccer, even organized frisbee. I would even consider horeshoes a sport and probably even shuffle board, although I am kind of on the fence on those two.
IMO a broad definition would be any game which requires physical skill to participate in, excluding video games.

In fact golf may be the hardest sport in the world to play well, which is why it is the greatest sport/game in the world.

[RSchaffer29]

Golf is a sport. Here are some ways in which I define a sport vs a game, hopefully they make sense.

Do you get worse as you get older? if its a game, like checkers, you're physical condition really doesn't affect your ability to play, but Champions Tour players certainly aren't as good as PGA Tour players

Could you be paralyzed and play? You can play games like checkers and tic tack toe when you are paralyzed, but can you play golf?

Can you play through someone else or a computer? For instance, checkers is a pure game. That being said, I can instruct someone else (or a computer) to physically move my game piece for me and the game will be the same. In a sport like golf, this certainly does not apply.

However, this can be tricky because some checker players might argue that they train and are physically conditioned for the mental strains of the game. For instance, by my above definitions, poker would be considered a game. However, tournament poker is considered by many to be a sport because of the physical ability that it takes to sit at a table for hours on end and not lose mental focus or be bothered by a stiff back. I'm not sure I buy this 100% but it is something to consider. I am trying to be fair.

dlygrisse, on Mar 19 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

Games are played on boards or on TV monitors. Chess, X-box, WI, Checkers, Life, Monopoly, poker etc.

^ whatta ya know! while I was typing my post look what comes up

[Mizgoodie]

Sports are just a type of game...... simple enough i have no problem with being calling a game or sport its for enjoyment for me so its a game. If i was competeing against people and not par it would be a sport to me

[307golf]

I would say, 'non athletic sport'. It ranks highly on coordination and timing, a OK on power, but low on strength and very low on endurance. You don't have to be much of an athlete to be a very good golfer.

[AGladwell]

To me, it's a meaningless argument in that you are only seeking to apply a label. No matter which label you choose, golf is what it is and any label will not change it. Golf requires mental toughness, precision muscle control, strength, flexibility, and creativity. It does not require that you run fast or jump high. Comparing the skills required to excel at basketball to those required to excel at golf does not diminish golf, in my opinion.

Rather than engage someone in this fruitless argument, I would suggest that a non-golfer take a day and play 36 holes (even with a cart), making sure to follow the rules, and tell me whether or not they're tired at the end of the day. They will have a newfound respect for this "non-sport."

[The Ultimate Spin]

AGladwell, on Mar 19 2008, 02:43 PM, said:

To me, it's a meaningless argument in that you are only seeking to apply a label. No matter which label you choose, golf is what it is and any label will not change it. Golf requires mental toughness, precision muscle control, strength, flexibility, and creativity. It does not require that you run fast or jump high. Comparing the skills required to excel at basketball to those required to excel at golf does not diminish golf, in my opinion.

Rather than engage someone in this fruitless argument, I would suggest that a non-golfer take a day and play 36 holes (even with a cart), making sure to follow the rules, and tell me whether or not they're tired at the end of the day. They will have a newfound respect for this "non-sport."

i guess the reason why i posted this was because some people call golf a 'game' in a derogatory tone. like it is inferior to other activities...

[Furrankee]

AGladwell, on Mar 19 2008, 12:43 PM, said:

To me, it's a meaningless argument in that you are only seeking to apply a label. No matter which label you choose, golf is what it is and any label will not change it. Golf requires mental toughness, precision muscle control, strength, flexibility, and creativity. It does not require that you run fast or jump high. Comparing the skills required to excel at basketball to those required to excel at golf does not diminish golf, in my opinion.

Rather than engage someone in this fruitless argument, I would suggest that a non-golfer take a day and play 36 holes (even with a cart), making sure to follow the rules, and tell me whether or not they're tired at the end of the day. They will have a newfound respect for this "non-sport."

I agree. Because in the end, when something is on the line (money, pride, etc.) it's just a contest between you and another person.

Different sports require different skill sets. It's that simple.

[fratlord]

RSchaffer29, on Mar 19 2008, 12:27 PM, said:

However, tournament poker is considered by many to be a sport because of the physical ability that it takes to sit at a table for hours on end and not lose mental focus or be bothered by a stiff back.

I understand the argument. But I think the above bolded statement makes poker, no matter what kind, only a game. Physical ability to sit and do anything should not be something that makes it a sport. I agree with you in that I am not convinced that is a sport.

I think this debate/argument is ok to have. It is clear by reading the posts thus far that people have an opinion on it.

I agree with the distinctions made above, Golf is a sport. Athleticism does not necessarily define it. There are baseball players that are not great athletes. Namely pitchers, have you seen some of them swing a bat, or run for that matter? At the same time there are golfers that are great athletes.

Steven

[hbear]

I think the difficulty with people's idea of golf is dependant upon which version they are thinking about.
Competitive/professional golf....100% sport. Requires flexibility/power/co-ordination/mental skills/etc.

But for some they think of golf as a leisure activity, done by guys in beer belly's, riding around in carts, smoking a cigar...etc.

Similar to how I think competitive sailing is a sport....but I wouldn't consider "sailing" while getting a tan, drinking a glass of wine a sport.

For what's it worth, golf IS a sport....no diferent than how curling IS a sport (validated by the fact it's in the Olympics).

[scs1070]

I have had this discussion 100's of times with buddy's, and a lot of guys who played one of the "big 3" sports in school. The Football and basketball guys do not think it is a sport becuase there is no running, jumping or anything physical. I seem to fall in with the baseball guys, I don't know if it is a sport, but more of a "skill"....like hitting a baseball or pitching.

I say this because you can teach yourself to be a good pitcher, hitter or golfer.....but in the end, if you are "athletic" you are just going to be good at it. You can't teach yourself to run a 4.2 40, or jump through the roof....you can get better at them.

in saying all of this, I am a 2 handicapper who has had to bust it to get to my skill level. I have a friend who might play 8 times a year and has one of the best golf swing I have seen and will shoot in the mid to low 80's. He is good at everything. I hate him.

[Shaitan]

Mizgoodie, on Mar 20 2008, 04:22 AM, said:

Sports are just a type of game...... simple enough i have no problem with being calling a game or sport its for enjoyment for me so its a game. If i was competeing against people and not par it would be a sport to me

Exactly - every sport is a game, but we generally define a sport as where one need advanced physical skill levels. Anyone can play golf, baseball, tennis, basketball, soccer, etc but unless they have some unnatural talent - they generally need a coach, or a better player, or a book to help them improve to a point where their skills can be defined as advanced. This is why most junior sports can be considered games - as the actual sport is modified to fit a skill level that is less then advanced.

[kongo]

I think it depends on how each person plays golf.

Basketball is my first love, for instance. I love playing basketball, and it's considered a sport by all. However, there are lots of my friends who almost play basketball as a "game", meaning they just like to shoot around once in a while and sweat.

Some people take golf very seriously, and to them, it could certainly qualify as a sport. But for others, it's simply a hobby or game.

For golf, I consider it my hobby. I play basketball as my sport of choice (leagues, tournaments, etc.), but golf I take much less seriously. I want to be good at golf, and get down to single-digit handicap (currently 11.4), but I doubt I'll ever play in many tournaments or anything. I just feel that golf is one of those things where you actually have to be at a certain level to really enjoy (it's hard to stick with golf if you're a continuous 30 handicapper, I think)

And as a basketball player, I'll tell you that golf DOES require athleticism, although not as much as basketball, per se. But the athleticism vs. skill doesn't define it as "sport" or "game". I would consider basketball much more of a "skill" sport than football or track, for example.

However, I gotta add, that some people use the term "sport" very loosely. The World Series of Poker, or the Cyber Athletics League (for gamers) have a hard time convincing me they are athletes who compete in their sport.

[307golf]

Fatigue at the end of an activity in no way makes any distinction between sport or game. Go rake your yard for four or five hours after which you'll be quite tired, but yard raking is still not a sport...

[pro11ace]

I agree. Ive heard golf is just an "activity" or "game". It makes me mad too. If you look at how much those guys on tour (excluding John Daly and those types of people) work and work just to play good in a particular activity I think you'll see it IS a sport.

[Veritas]

I've had this argument way too many times. And yes it is fruitless but boy is it fun. I think sports should not be graded as binary (yes/no) but on a gradient scale. So while golf maybe not on the same level as basketball, it is still a sport. My friends and I put together a set of 5 categories in which we ranked each sport in (level of exertion, level of competition, level of offensive/defensive play, mental skill needed, athletic skill needed). These catergories were weighted differently based on how much we felt each category mattered. This resulted in a score out of 100 points for each sport, which we called the sport score. Golf ended up with a sport score of 42, while sports like basketball and football both got around 77-78. I think we had something like 15 people vote in it. Fruitless? Of course, but still fun.

[hbear]

Along those lines I've had classmates that took a stance that if there was no way to CLEARLY determine a winner OBJECTIVLY it was not a sport as well.

Citing gymnastics/figure skating/etc. which are judged sports....where a "judge/group of judges" can manipulate the outcome. Unlike say track....where it doesn't matter where you are from, if you have been on the world stage before, if you are a nobody, etc....you run/jump/throw the fastest/furthest you win. Pretty cut and dry.

[Bubb]

307golf, on Mar 19 2008, 05:19 PM, said:

Fatigue at the end of an activity in no way makes any distinction between sport or game. Go rake your yard for four or five hours after which you'll be quite tired, but yard raking is still not a sport...

Actually, fatigue does matter. Fatigue at the end of a game means that the game required significant physical exertion. Physical games are the definition of sport. The reason raking leaves doesn't qualify as a sport is that it is not a game. Otherwise, it would.

Should golf be labeled a sport? Who cares? Personally, I would much rather possess the qualities required to excel at golf than those required to excel at basketball.

[tbowles411]

Yes. It's both.

[Andariego]

Golf is a game

Football game/Baseball game/Basketball game/Futbol Game/Hockey game, etc. Games are measured with points or some kind of unit specific to the contest. Basket,Field Goal,Run,Stroke,etc.

Track and Field is the only sport

This is where the basic skills of Games are contested. Run,Jump,Throw,etc. They are measured in time or distance only.

my .02

[stratkidp38]

Didn't Hemingway say something to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing) "the only real sports are bullfighting, auto racing, and "something else I can't remember" because those are the only 3 sports where participants risk their lives, everything else is just a game." It was something like that anyway, can't remember.

[ultra45]

the criteria to define a sport are physical exertion, skill, rules, competition .... which is how things like fishing and chess are called sports...

[307golf]

Fatigue is completely subjective, and therefore irrelevant as a variable.

[KMeloney]

Why do folks feel insulted by those who call golf a game?

Calling it a game in itself isn't belittling. There's merit to being a great chess player, or top sales-getter, or a computer maven, or pianist -- none of which requires athletic skill or the lablel "sport" attached to it. To argue that being a great chess player isn't a big sport accomplishment is silly because no one would really argue that it is. If people could get past the idea that golf isn't a "sport" -- and that that's perfectly fine -- then what would the argument be? Does there need to be an argument? Do we have to consider it sport?

Can't Tiger be the greatest golfer of all time without being the greatest athlete of all time?

I would bet that the people who offend their co-workers or friends or whomever by calling golf a game and not a sport simply don't play golf, or don't like it, or are terrible at it, and so THEY drag is into the "sport" arena in order to bash it. They say that it doesn't require true athleticism (not running/jumping/prolonged aerobic activity), which it doesn't, which somehow proves their point that a real man plays football instead. (The last part is probably their real cause -- trying to make you feel like less of a man because you like golf and they can shoot a jump shot better than you, all of which isn't pertinent to enjoying golf.) If you're getting flak from someone who's arguing that golf isn't a sport, then I'd imagine they're just looking to argue with you, or make you feel bad that you play golf, or something to that effect.

I just don't care if golf is considered a sport or not. And I guess I don't see why others care so much. On its own, golf is my favorite past time/hobby/game/sport that I want to partake in more than anything else and as often as I can. And I still play hockey, and love watching football, etc. It doesn't NEED to be considered a sport for me. And when I take away the idea that is has to be a sport, then there's no need to feel threatened or offended by someone's argument that it's a game.

(If their argument is that it's a "kid's game," or that's it's stupid, or takes no skill, or something to that effect, then they're exposing themselves as being a fool. The TV ratings, the top players' popularity, the purses at some of the tournaments all tell us how popular and mainstream golf is.)

/< / /2 /<

PS -- Great discussion-generating topic, nonetheless!

[philfan316]

It is like the "man" factor. Just because I don't know how to change a tire, or tell you what type of engine I have, doesn't mean I couldn't f*** your wife better than you do right now.

That is a quote from a standup comic I saw on a cruise ship.

[Kurren]

I love golf, but still think it's a game.

A true sport requires a lot of athleticism. Even people who aren't athletic whatsoever and are out of shape can play golf and be pretty good at it. A 100 year old lady made a hole in one recently, she most likely can't play any other "sports."

[Goldenhawk]

Golf is covered by ESPN and Sports Illustrated. I guess golf then qualifies as a sport.

[300yard+]

A sport is a sport. There arent any different classsifications. Its either it is or its not. There is a physical element which is the swing that requires movement of the body , arms etc.. Similar to baseball in all aspects of the swing . Timing , eye coordination , and application of momentum this all serves to enable the ball to move. Yes you dont have to be a athelete to play , but a sport isnt soley based on athletetism, but on skill level as well. The 100 year old lady will never play in a professional event because of the LPGA skill level , altho it isnt impossible for anyone to ace a hole. Short, tall, big, small anyone has the ability to ace a holebecause your challenging the course, not a 250 lb lineman trying to tackle you as you make a swing.
A game describes anything involving challenge ,strategy, skill rules etc. from baseball to poker or even hop scotch.

[Baycal92510]

It's a sport. We have all seen athletes from other sports fail in golf.


Joshua

[KMeloney]

Baycal92510, on Mar 21 2008, 06:19 AM, said:

It's a sport. We have all seen athletes from other sports fail in golf.


Joshua

That might be the best argument AGAINST it being a sport.

Following your logic, if Michael Jordan couldn't play darts well, does that make darts a sport?

[dlygrisse]

The Ultimate Spin, on Mar 19 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

AGladwell, on Mar 19 2008, 02:43 PM, said:

To me, it's a meaningless argument in that you are only seeking to apply a label. No matter which label you choose, golf is what it is and any label will not change it. Golf requires mental toughness, precision muscle control, strength, flexibility, and creativity. It does not require that you run fast or jump high. Comparing the skills required to excel at basketball to those required to excel at golf does not diminish golf, in my opinion.

Rather than engage someone in this fruitless argument, I would suggest that a non-golfer take a day and play 36 holes (even with a cart), making sure to follow the rules, and tell me whether or not they're tired at the end of the day. They will have a newfound respect for this "non-sport."

i guess the reason why i posted this was because some people call golf a 'game' in a derogatory tone. like it is inferior to other activities...

No doubt these are people who are too un-athletic, or have the mental fortitutde to play this "game" The next time they are derogatory put a 3 iron in their hands and ask them to make contact and get the ball to go straight. these types of people are just haters. Golf is only NOT considered a sport when you play it on a computer, or Golden tee, and then it is not really golf is it?. When you play on a course, with equipment it is a sport.

[dlygrisse]

Goldenhawk, on Mar 20 2008, 03:07 PM, said:

Golf is covered by ESPN and Sports Illustrated. I guess golf then qualifies as a sport.

While I agree it is a sport, I wouldnt use this as an arguement, they also have swimsuit editions, which would blow your arguemnt out of the water. They also cover horse racing, and if you want to get into the horseracing argument I would contend that while jockeys could be considered athletes, the "sport" in general to me is more gambling, which is a game, or gameing. JMO

[willfred08]

Quote

• I don't get people who don't think golf is a sport.

The best of the best stand 200 yards from a 4½-inch target and are distressed if they don't get the ball within 10 feet. Tell me that is not an athletic accomplishment.

-Ron Sirak
From this article: http://sports.espn.g...o...&id=3284781

[JohnG]

the hemingway quote is:

"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games"

as much as I love golf, I consider it a game.

you're hitting a ball with a stick, to get it into a hole... not unlike miniature golf or billiards.

[mont86]

Its great excerise and fun . And keeps me busy for 8 months out of the year.

[golfho]

Game , sport, who really cares.

I find it more to be an addiction!!

[T.J.K.]

I think golf is a game, or a hobby. A perfected hobby for the pros, but not a sport.

I think athleticism is the way to tell whether or not it's a sport. You don't have to be an athlete to be good at golf.

If you want to call it a game, a sport, or a hobby....I don't care. I just know it's the hardest game, sport, or hobby on the planet

[beachgrovejunior]

Some definitions

(WikiPedia) Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome (winning or losing), but the term is also used to include activities such as mind sports and motor sports where mental acuity or equipment quality are major factors.
Hmm rules, check. competitive, check. physical capibilities primary determiner, check. 3 for 3, and mind sport, check its a mental game, or makes you mental, one of the two. Club hoes here will also like the last few words of that definition

(Dictionary.com) 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2. a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors.
3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime

1.Mentions golf in it.2. out doors, check. 3. Recreation, past time, diversion, check


So by the books, it is a sport