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The secret is


56 replies to this topic

#1 PuttingIsNotGolf

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 03:22 PM

The right tricep


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#2 Pinsplitter59

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 06:10 PM

hmmmmmmmm.... intriguing and
absorbing, alluring, appealing, beguiling, captivating, compelling, curious, enthralling, exciting,fascinating,gripping,provocative,puzzling,riveting,stimulating,stirring,thought-provoking, arousing, enchanting.

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#3 jacot23

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 06:40 PM

Yes, but is it more important in the backswing or downswing.
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#4 JD3

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 11:50 PM

What part of the right tricep?
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#5 Switter

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 03:01 PM

Personally I dont think its any secret! The more efficient my swing becomes, the more I use both right & left arm tricepts. This is recognizable by the soreness that developes in the region.

IMO Hogans great secret was that there is no secret! His success was the result of natural athletic talent, thousands of hours of practice, physical training, proper nutrition, & strong mental agility & ability to endure & win.

Ben Hogan is proof that Ali lied about being the "greatest!"

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#6 PuttingIsNotGolf

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 12:59 PM

The secret is in here:
http://www.exrx.net/...epsBrachii.html

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#7 AllenResGolf

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:34 AM

View PostPuttingIsNotGolf, on 08 July 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:



That was part of the secret, the other was the left shoulder.
"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations.
The average player has minimal time to make maximum compensations."
-Not my quote, but a great one!

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#8 DavePelz4

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:36 AM

Thanks Oprah.  Welcome to GolfWRX.

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#9 MizunoJoe

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 06:51 PM

Hogan said, "you have to do it with the left arm".   Maybe he was only referring to fanning the face open, but I suspect it was something else.

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#10 MadGolfer76

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 12:51 AM

I think any secret has to do with lag pressure through the trigger finger, letting that pressure inform the swing itself, and then delivering "five right hands" through impact when you feel the pressure diminishing towards the bottom of the swing.

Or, that could just be the painkillers talking...

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#11 David C

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 09:16 AM

The left arm was about a feeling of the left arm dominating the swing IMO. The whole three right hands business is because if you have the left arm controlling, and left hand in a finger and palm grip, the right hand is in a deliberately subservient position. You can hit as hard as you like with the right - as long as you also hit with the left or the right takes over. Basically, hit with both hands as long as you set it up so the left is in a stronger (as in, more dominant) position. When it is, and you are hitting with both hands, the right can't hit hard enough. So I don't think the right arm is part of the secret.

But...

I've only met a handful of people that recognise the hand action section is for *practice*. The downswing consists of hitting in the correct order, and starting down with the hips. As he says, after starting with the hips the rest is instinct.

For me his 'secret' is the cupped left wrist. But *the* secret, is hours and hours and hours of practice.

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#12 moehogan

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 12:41 PM

View PostDavid C, on 28 July 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

The left arm was about a feeling of the left arm dominating the swing IMO. The whole three right hands business is because if you have the left arm controlling, and left hand in a finger and palm grip, the right hand is in a deliberately subservient position. You can hit as hard as you like with the right - as long as you also hit with the left or the right takes over. Basically, hit with both hands as long as you set it up so the left is in a stronger (as in, more dominant) position. When it is, and you are hitting with both hands, the right can't hit hard enough. So I don't think the right arm is part of the secret.

But...

I've only met a handful of people that recognise the hand action section is for *practice*. The downswing consists of hitting in the correct order, and starting down with the hips. As he says, after starting with the hips the rest is instinct.

For me his 'secret' is the cupped left wrist. But *the* secret, is hours and hours and hours of practice.

David, then why is the cupped left wrist present in some pre-secret swings?

[attachment=4025300:Screenshot (18).png]

No doubt Hogan worked tirelessly on his swing, but practice by itself is not a recipe for success ... one has to practice the correct things once they're found!

Edited by moehogan, 30 July 2017 - 01:17 PM.


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#13 MizunoJoe

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:17 AM

The secret of the cupped left wrist is not just the cup, but the move from cupped to arched.

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#14 moehogan

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:42 AM

View PostMizunoJoe, on 31 July 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

The secret of the cupped left wrist is not just the cup, but the move from cupped to arched.

IMO, cupped to arched is the effect, not the cause.  Turning the left forearm/hand CCW against the right hand that is trying to keep its CW winding is what produces the arched or bowed left wrist and a clubface that is square to the clubhead arc.  It's done with the grip pressures Hogan detailed in 5L.

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#15 MizunoJoe

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:14 AM

View Postmoehogan, on 31 July 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

View PostMizunoJoe, on 31 July 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

The secret of the cupped left wrist is not just the cup, but the move from cupped to arched.

IMO, cupped to arched is the effect, not the cause.  Turning the left forearm/hand CCW against the right hand that is trying to keep its CW winding is what produces the arched or bowed left wrist and a clubface that is square to the clubhead arc.  It's done with the grip pressures Hogan detailed in 5L.

Will check it out.


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#16 ricklinens

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:48 AM

Moving the club without moving it.

Edited by ricklinens, 31 July 2017 - 12:00 PM.

The less you put in, the more you take out.

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#17 David C

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 02:57 AM

I'm not sure whether I agree that picture is pre-secret. He won the PGA and 13 tournaments in 1946. In September 1947 he won the double tournament he said proved his modification. In comparison he seems to have had a less successful year. He wins two majors in 1948 and more tournaments. Power Golf was published in 1948, so would be post-secret, unless of course the pictures for it were taken in early 1947. Certainly he has a weaker grip than the one in PG later on. I once read the pictures pre date and publication post dates, but can't find that again and don't remember whomever wrote it providing any evidence for that.

Edited by David C, 01 August 2017 - 03:04 AM.


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#18 moehogan

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 07:10 AM

View PostDavid C, on 01 August 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

I'm not sure whether I agree that picture is pre-secret. He won the PGA and 13 tournaments in 1946. In September 1947 he won the double tournament he said proved his modification. In comparison he seems to have had a less successful year. He wins two majors in 1948 and more tournaments. Power Golf was published in 1948, so would be post-secret, unless of course the pictures for it were taken in early 1947. Certainly he has a weaker grip than the one in PG later on. I once read the pictures pre date and publication post dates, but can't find that again and don't remember whomever wrote it providing any evidence for that.

I am sure it is pre-secret, David. The pic is from the Power Golf shoot in spring of 1947 at Augusta in preparation for publication.  No digital capabilities back then so publishing was a much slower process.  Power Golf, while having a 1948 copyright date, actually went on sale in December of 1947 to catch the Christmas selling season.

Although it has been reported erroneously at times as 1946, the "Secret" was actually discovered in the summer of '47  after he returned from the PGA Championship, only making it to the round of 64 ... still match play then. He had won that tourney the year before (his first major) and came home determined to find the cure for the hook that reared its head especially when the pressure was on.  Hogan then proceeded to battle test it at George May's tournament in Chicago later that summer in '47, which he won thus validating his discovery.

All of this can be validated with a little research!

Edited by moehogan, 01 August 2017 - 07:16 AM.


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#19 David C

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 12:05 PM

That was the only thing I couldn't find info on, when published and pictures taken.

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#20 AJ Joseph

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:37 PM

He said what his secret was in the magazine article


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#21 Texsport

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:41 PM

I've long believed that most of Hogan's secret was his clubs, grip, aiming direction, and improved swing sequencing.

Hogan always attacked the ball from way inside. The right elbow proximity to the right hip on the downswing guaranteed it.

Early in his career his conventional clubs and stronger grip caused hooking problems.

I don't think he changed his swing much - except changes in response to club adjustments he made.

Hogan's interest in the baseball swing and his friendship with baseball players Sam Byrd and Ted Williams is well documented. I believe that Hogan must have known that great baseball hitters used a hands leading swing to prevent flipping the head of the bat ahead thru the hitting zone - an action which causes weak pulled hits. Hogan's hooking problems would relate directly to this. He would have likely studied ways to prevent this rolling over of the hands thru impact. His weak grip would help prevent that roll over. The coat hanger under the grip guaranteed a weak grip + prevented the club from turning in his hands at the downswing transition - a common problem for some hookers of the ball.

More than a swing change, I sense that the new secret instead was first, open faced clubs + a weak grip while holding the faces open beginning at address. As a side benefit, his turned in right foot and weak grip both acted to shorten his swing. After his accident, his swing was further restricted, but he stated that he struck the ball the best of his life before the accident.

A powerful, strategically connected downswing with clubs set way open, that he couldn't hook were the start, but, such wide open faces would have started the ball way right, so he aimed left, with the ball foreward in his stance and swung/turned way left thru impact to start the ball left of final target with the intention of fading the ball slightly.The open stance also prevented Hogan from "turning the corner" too early, which would cause him to flip/turn the club over too soon - producing a hook.I think that he connected his right elbow/arm to his right hip/leg on the downswing to prevent premature hip turn that would cause the club to flip closed - especially on longer club swings.

Hogan had rather long arms for his height, so a circular swing around to the left with long arms likely led to some turf/heel strikes causing hooks. Bending his clubs very flat cured that. His driver also had very low bulge in the face - a feature he eliminated, and didn't need, because of his precise swing.

Further evidence is Hogan's statements that when it tried to hit it harder, the ball went straighter - likely because it closed the face more when he swung harder.

Hogan knew Trackman data before Trackman was invented!

Texsport

Edited by Texsport, 12 April 2018 - 10:09 PM.

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#22 playa

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 08:21 PM

View PostSwitter, on 07 July 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

Personally I dont think its any secret! The more efficient my swing becomes, the more I use both right & left arm tricepts. This is recognizable by the soreness that developes in the region.

IMO Hogans great secret was that there is no secret! His success was the result of natural athletic talent, thousands of hours of practice, physical training, proper nutrition, & strong mental agility & ability to endure & win.

Ben Hogan is proof that Ali lied about being the "greatest!"
I tend to agree with this theory. In an sport there is a simple formula.
Talent + repetition + focus = proficiency.

And if those three are at an extremely high level, like Hogan, you have greatness. There are no shortcuts to greatnoess in any sport. Ali has often said that he got his confidence from training hard, knowing that he was training harder than his opponent. Talent and great hand eye coordination is a baseline for any elite athlete in any sport, but without dedication to practice and focus greatness will not be achieved.
It's no. coincidence that every dominant golfer before and after Hogan also just happened to have reputations for being the hardest workers with single minded focus. With the possible exception of Hagen going by Richard's anecdotes haha.

Edited by playa, 24 December 2017 - 08:28 PM.


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#23 Lime Shark

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:44 AM

View Postmoehogan, on 01 August 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

Although it has been reported erroneously at times as 1946, the "Secret" was actually discovered in the summer of '47  after he returned from the PGA Championship, only making it to the round of 64 ... still match play then. He had won that tourney the year before (his first major) and came home determined to find the cure for the hook that reared its head especially when the pressure was on.  Hogan then proceeded to battle test it at George May's tournament in Chicago later that summer in '47, which he won thus validating his discovery.

Hogan's secret (whatever it was) was an anit-hooking move.

Most golfers today don't have a hooking problem, they have a slicing problem, so Hogan's secret wouldn't do them any good even if they did discover it.

A more interesting question is this: why did old school golfers (such as Hogan) have problems with hooking the ball, while modern golfers have problems slicing he ball.

What has changed about the golf swing/equipment/instruction that has caused this change?

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#24 dlygrisse

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:48 AM

Here is the article, straight from the horses mouth.  Scroll to page 61.  
https://books.google...epage&q&f=false
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#25 dlygrisse

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 10:01 AM

Who here has read the article?
Who has tried the secret?
What is the secret for?
It that a fault in your game?
Did the secret work?
Why are we looking for something that isn't there?
The secret is right in front of us, it has been since 1955.
Occam's Razor.

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#26 eagle1997

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 15 January 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

Who here has read the article?
Who has tried the secret?
What is the secret for?
It that a fault in your game?
Did the secret work?
Why are we looking for something that isn't there?
The secret is right in front of us, it has been since 1955.
Occam's Razor.

fantastic!

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#27 dlygrisse

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:12 PM

So did anyone but Eagle read the actual article?...this thread sure died quickly....

Triceps, it's allllllllllll triceps.  SMH

I am greatly offended no one answered my questions above, very disappointed.  

I was hoping for some lively debate.  


And btw, putting IS part of golf.
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#28 powerfade66

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:23 PM

I read it years ago and have a nice copy. Can still pick them up pretty cheap. They're like a big newspaper in size compared to today's mags.
I think it was part of it along with a few other things, like a hook tendency as you say. You can find those others in my book "Hooker. Can you keep a secret?"

I used to think the cup and how it allowed him to hit it hard without hooking was about opening the face and that he then couldn't shut it in time. I've moved away from that, especially since realising I can go from wide open to shut almost instantly using wrist manipulation and no arm travel rather than forearm rotation where the entire arm triangle rotates over itself. What I think the cup does now in addition to opening the face is facilitate a much deeper wrist set. Experiment with it while you're reading this - flat left wrist hits an end point much sooner than having the cup and less angle in the right wrist. Notice how deep it is when you get an equal amount of wrinkles at the base of both the left and right thumbs. Hogan had a long backswing well into old age. While yes he had a long swing pre secret it was quite sloppy and with lots of leg action. From the deep wrist set he lays it off setting up maximum range of motion in the forearms and at the same time flattens out the cup somewhat. I think the beauty of it is that the deep wrist c0ck at the top followed by laying it off gets him so deep into the downswing before he has lost much of the left arm shaft angle that it's then nearly impossible to run out of leverage in the right side. His early swings have him extending the right arm early and then folding into more of a fake finish where later in his career the extension comes much later and so there is acceleration deep into the follow through and then a more abrupt finish because there wasn't the need for the big artificial wrap around follow through after using everything up much earlier.

Just my thoughts...

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#29 oscar@wrx

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 11:09 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 16 January 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

So did anyone but Eagle read the actual article?...this thread sure died quickly....

Triceps, it's allllllllllll triceps.  SMH

I am greatly offended no one answered my questions above, very disappointed.  

I was hoping for some lively debate.  


And btw, putting IS part of golf.
Hogan said it’s the cup, and it is. But Hogan also mentioned in there that you have to have a draw swing. So the cup won’t work (as Hogan intended) if you don’t have a draw swing—inside out downswing.

I think his draw swing is very inside out (layoff, right elbow still bent when his hands are hip height in downswing, club still cocked).

Most people would indeed draw or hook with this
"Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."

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#30 oscar@wrx

oscar@wrx

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 11:10 PM

Then the 3 right hands, you would always hook it

"Best teacher is yourself, with other teachers just giving you ideas to try. I like teachers who say--ok, try this FEEL and this and that..."

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