baldandbroke, on 14 March 2018 - 03:01 AM, said:
When you say they are the same swing ... what do you mean?
The starting and finishing positions of the body are different. Your body is a different posture during the swing. The swing planes are different. The angle of attack is different. The ball position is different. What is the same? The grip?
A 3-wood off the fairway swing is a different swing to Driver off the tee swing. A Driver off the tee swing is very different to a 7-iron from the fairway swing. A flop shot is different to a chip-and-run.
Maybe you are talking about something entirely different and I am missing it?
The swing is an arc - it has different angles of attack all the way around your body. Theoretically, if you put the ball on a three foot tall tee next to your waist and way in front of you, you could hit the ball with a +40 degree angle of attack with the "same swing". The secret to good golf is controlling and having a consistent low point of the swing - that it "bottoms out" in the same place every time. The swing will always bottom out (like any other lever) at 90* to its axis, which in the golf swing is the line formed by your chin, sternum and belly button. Any lever will always bottom out at 90* to its axis. So if that line is behind the ball, you'll hit it fat. If that line is in front of the ball, you'll get a nice, crisp iron strike - you hit just slightly down because of where the ball is positioned - the ball is just behind the axis. If that axis line is positioned behind the ball but you allow the club to bottom out and then start back up before the strike - due to ball position - then you will have an upward AoA (its after the lowest point and starting back up) with the same swing as an iron.
The most efficient* way to control AoA is by ball position. If you do it that way, you do not have to change anything, your impact changes because the ball is being struck on an arc beginning around your rear heel and ending about your left big toe. Placing a ball anywhere there (on a tee or not) will produce anything from a severe downward blow (heel) to a driver upswing (high AoA). Those with lower clubhead speed should be much more extreme in their ball position because they can hit significantly down or up based on where the ball is in their stance, not changing up their mechanics. The other problem with this is it requires pretty high vigilance for your set up during the round, which isn't the most fun thing in the world, but a whole lot of professionals make ball position a huge part of their pre-shot routine.
There are two significant issues that stop most players from being able to do this - plane and spine angle. Pros maintain their spine angle all the way through the swing because they don't have to manufacture angle of attack, either because they are so fast they can hit it really far hitting down (Sergio, Rahm) or they have such good mechanics that they can "hit up" just by sliding the ball forward and letting the driver just bottom out before impact (Scott). Most really good ams, when they swing an iron, properly clear their left side low and their right side comes through the ball high - they don't do the left-up/right-down scoop move with the irons. But then with the driver, they scoop without realizing it trying to get a positive AoA. Second, a lot of good but not great players don't keep their clubface on the target line very long. Professionals keep their irons on the target line for about two and a half feet - they are so on plane, that they keep the clubface facing square a foot before and after impact. So if we think about the geometry of it, if you push the tee forward in order to catch it after the bottom and make the same swing, your face is going to be wonky at impact unless you are able to square the face early and keep it square until it exits left. That is very difficult to do. Most ams have a compensation somewhere where they square the face for a very short window just before and after impact. In that case, the same swing doesn't work, because the face is no longer square when it reaches the further forward, tee'd up ball.
There are professionals, even, who have "two swings", but most don't, and it is certainly not impossible. It is, however, difficult.
*efficient is not a synonym for only. There are plenty of people who make it work. Its just less efficient IMO, and its absolutely possible.
Let's say you have a pretty classic good player bad iron swing where you loop inside going back and outside going down, hitting virtually all cuts and fades. You go way off plane inside on the backswing and then compensate by looping it down outside, squaring the face for just an instant before the face shuts down completely and exists sharply up and closed. It is hopeless for you to hit a driver with that swing. If you move the tee forward to catch it on the upswing, you'll hit snap hooks and massive pushes for days. But its not because its an "iron swing" its because its a really off plane iron swing that you've grooved over years of practice to be able to get away with.
Probably a better way to say it is you can't hit driver with a bad iron swing that you've made work by practicing timing over years and years.
Edited by pinestreetgolf, 14 March 2018 - 09:02 AM.