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Tiger and Phil, unique talents.


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#1 Greggap

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

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#2 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:30 AM

Phil may be one of the last old school players- lifting the heel and shaping his shots. Tiger was just at another level and we may have to wait awhile until we see the next of his kind. I kind of doubt the next Tiger is even swinging a club yet.



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#3 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:36 AM

They both have something you really can't teach.   While they both understand technique and equipment there is a certain bit of artistry in them that is hard to explain.  It's like a combo of Bubba Watson and Ben Hogan.  With Phil being a bit more Bubba and Tiger being a bit more Hogan.
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#4 From_Parts_Unknown

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:42 AM

In the next five years, every decent player will have a major, and the best player without a major won't even be ranked in the top 25 world rankings.

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#5 bladehunter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:47 AM

View Postdlygrisse, on 19 June 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

They both have something you really can't teach.   While they both understand technique and equipment there is a certain bit of artistry in them that is hard to explain.  It's like a combo of Bubba Watson and Ben Hogan.  With Phil being a bit more Bubba and Tiger being a bit more Hogan.

View Postdlygrisse, on 19 June 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

They both have something you really can't teach.   While they both understand technique and equipment there is a certain bit of artistry in them that is hard to explain.  It's like a combo of Bubba Watson and Ben Hogan.  With Phil being a bit more Bubba and Tiger being a bit more Hogan.


amen...  people dont get how creative both their minds are.. they simply dont see shots the same as others

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#6 ConcentricDimples

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:09 AM

I also think consistency of performance is an issue with players today.  Everyone talks about Tiger's years of no missed-cuts.

It seems nowadays, you can have players like Rickie miss the cut at Memphis, then next week be contending for US Open (or Dan Berger winning in Memphis, then missing cut).

And according to Brandel and Duval, Si Woo Kim was ranked LAST in "all-around" stat, and wins Players (and also does well at US Open, betwixt and between WDs and MCs).

I understand the depth of talent and how it has changed.  I do not understand how the best players in the world (Tour collectively) have the inconsistency they do.

The inconsistency makes DFS lineup creation impossible, especially for folks like me who never enter more than a couple lineups (on principle).

DFS have made me especially cognizant of looking at player performances versus expectation.  I said it before and I'll say it again: predicting the future is impossible (I'm pretty bad at it with two lineups on DK, but even if I entered 1000 lineups (if that was allowed), I don't think I would have picked the top 6).

But anyway, about consistency, there are some other sports (not mainstream US Sports) where the top 10 in the world always are pretty much in the top 10 finishers... like always.


Others have said it here and I agree:  the difference between 1, 20, 50, and 70 in the world is slim, maybe even non-existent.

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#7 Shakester

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:59 AM

People don't realize just how dominant Tiger was until he was gone from the game.  Every year, it seems like they're trying to pump someone up as the next big thing but their high level of success just couldn't be sustained.  Two years ago, it was Rory.  Last year, it was Speith.  None has done much after a dominant season.  A win here and there but there were times they missed the cut.  Back when Tiger was setting the golf world on fire, a bad round meant he won a tournament by 3 strokes instead of 10.   Tiger probably won't surpass Nicklaus, but what Tiger did was just as special.

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#8 ebrasmus21

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:02 AM

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

I might be a weirdo but I always thought that Tiger's short game was better than Phil's
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#9 cardoustie

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:03 AM

you can make a heck of a living nowadays being inconsistent and not 100% golf focused
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#10 tbowles411

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:09 AM

View Postcardoustie, on 19 June 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

you can make a heck of a living nowadays being inconsistent and not 100% golf focused
Pretty much every golfer from Number 1 to 120 is a millionaire.  Though it may take a player at the end of the list a couple years to get there...  :)

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#11 grm24

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:11 AM

View Postebrasmus21, on 19 June 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

I might be a weirdo but I always thought that Tiger's short game was better than Phil's
It was.

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#12 tgtaggie

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:12 AM

View Postebrasmus21, on 19 June 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

I might be a weirdo but I always thought that Tiger's short game was better than Phil's

I think in Big Cat's case, it depended on the moment. A lot of Tiger's best short game shots came when he needed the most. Like the chip on 16 at Augusta on Sunday.

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#13 ebrasmus21

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:21 AM

View Posttgtaggie, on 19 June 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 19 June 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

I might be a weirdo but I always thought that Tiger's short game was better than Phil's

I think in Big Cat's case, it depended on the moment. A lot of Tiger's best short game shots came when he needed the most. Like the chip on 16 at Augusta on Sunday.

I think that further illustrates what I'm getting at.  Other stories I've heard or seen would be someone playing a Thursday round with Tiger where Tiger "should have shot 74 because of his driving but because of his short game he shot 69."
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#14 Matchplay10033

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:28 AM

Every so often I watch a Tiger  highlight video on you tube and am reminded how far golf has fallen.  There are a ton of good players but Tiger was the greatest.   No Sunday lead was safe with him and he had the ability to hunt down the leaders on Sunday.   It is true that Tiger spoiled golf for many of us !

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#15 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:28 AM

View Postebrasmus21, on 19 June 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

I might be a weirdo but I always thought that Tiger's short game was better than Phil's

More consistent for sure.  I think Phil is probably a better bunker player, and pulled off more spectacular shots on occasion, but much like their full swings Tiger was just more consistent.  Phil missed cuts, Tiger did not.  

Phil is the master of the flop shot, Tiger only hit that shot when he absolutely had to.  

It would be fun to watch them play a game of HORSE around the green though.  

Tiger was awesome at hitting difficult shots out of US Open style rough around the green, Tom Watson is the master but Tiger might be #2 all-time.  If you are talking a simple chip shot I would take Tiger all day, Phil would get too cute and not pull it off.  

Yeah, strong case Tiger was better day in day out.

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#16 Loki

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:32 AM

Um, Tiger never won a major coming from behind on Sunday...just sayin'.

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#17 bscinstnct

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:32 AM

It's good to see players go on a tear like DJ, Spieth, Day and dominate, even if it's for a year or so.

Expecting somebody to come along and be TW for years on end is not going to happen. Well, not with the current pack.

They can't maintain the level of intensity/mental stamina as TW. They go on a run, then understandably get burned out.

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#18 Christosterone

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:42 AM

Love Phil and Tiger...
Very much in the vein of jack and Watson...

This blew us all away...at least everyone I know..


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#19 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:49 AM

View PostChristosterone, on 19 June 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

Love Phil and Tiger...
Very much in the vein of jack and Watson...

This blew us all away...at least everyone I know..


-Chris

No doubt.  I mean I could hit that flop shot, if you gave me 10 tries, maybe less.....but I wouldn't want to be Dave Pelz when I was trying to find out how many it would take.  :)
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#20 redfirebird08

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:50 AM

View PostLoki, on 19 June 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

Um, Tiger never won a major coming from behind on Sunday...just sayin'.

After 54 you mean. He trailed Bob May after 61 and he trailed Rocco Mediate after 71.

Edited by redfirebird08, 19 June 2017 - 12:00 PM.


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#21 Christosterone

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:57 AM



-Chris
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#22 rblmp32

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:59 AM

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

We were spoiled by having two amazing players like Phil and Tiger around at the same time.  I mean, Phil has won 42 times on tour.  That's massive.

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#23 Darth Putter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:02 PM

I've seen the likes of Woods and Mickelson before, at age 47 I'm sure I'll see their likes again.
swing is irrelevant, score is everything

just say NO.... to practice swings

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#24 gators78

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:12 PM

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do?
I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.



Yes we've had 7 first time major winners in a row. To do that, for example, Jason Day (record score), Henrik, Dustin (record score), and Brooks (tied record score) literally blew up the record books. Before that Jordan won 2 in a row and had a very close chance at the Grand Slam.

Is the same front-runner always winning? No. Is golf so deep now that someone has to play out of their mind to win? Yup, get used to it.
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#25 Christosterone

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:13 PM

Jack burst on the scene in 1960...
Tiger in 1997...
We should have another just like them in 2034

-Chris

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#26 alexdub

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:20 PM

I think the difference is that in today's game, you have 20+ golfers that on any given weekend can dominate a tournament....

But what we don't see in today's game is someone dominating a season. Is it really even possible anymore?
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#27 Dave230

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:33 PM

Rory McIlroy has one less major than Phil Mickelson at 28. 5 years younger than when Mickelson won his first major. He won the FedEx Cup last year in pretty spectacular fashion.

People might say that 'well what has he done this year?' but Phil was up and down all of his career too. Rory is well on course to have a better record than Phil.

Tiger is a different proposition, but there's no point comparing anyone to him really.

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#28 cardoustie

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    haha, we don't play for 5's

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:36 PM

View Posttgtaggie, on 19 June 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 19 June 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

I might be a weirdo but I always thought that Tiger's short game was better than Phil's

I think in Big Cat's case, it depended on the moment. A lot of Tiger's best short game shots came when he needed the most. Like the chip on 16 at Augusta on Sunday.

Tiger is not Big Cat

That's my buddy who is 6'3" and 350 and swings 125.  Let's keep things straight.   Hands of a surgeon, former professional athlete

I think his older bro is 450 and 6'8"
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#29 larrybud

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:40 PM

View Postrblmp32, on 19 June 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

We were spoiled by having two amazing players like Phil and Tiger around at the same time.  I mean, Phil has won 42 times on tour.  That's massive.

Yes, and that was DURING Tiger's reign.  Probably would have won another 20 tournies without Tiger in there.

Except for Spieth, the problem with many of today's players is that they are robots personality-wise, and Spieth comes across to many as a crybaby.

29

#30 deadsolid...shank

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:44 PM

View Postgrm24, on 19 June 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

View Postebrasmus21, on 19 June 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

View PostGreggap, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Really miss these guys, these new kids just don't compare.  No one has had a short game like Mickelson and probably never will.  That guy is unreal around the greens.  I'm
not a Tiger fan at all, but I give the guy props for his mental approach, if he needed he make a putt he did, like no one else.

I just don't get excited about Dustin Johnson, Rory or Speith.  Anyone else miss watching Golfers who could do things the other guys playing
could not do? I know someone is going to say Keopke did it yesterday, shooting -16 under when other's managed -12.  Congrats to
him but take away the 60-80 yard wide fairways and he has no shot.   Wasn't a fan of the course layout, announcers making a big
deal of the 25 inch rough that no one hit it in.  Coverage was awful.

I might be a weirdo but I always thought that Tiger's short game was better than Phil's
It was.

I don't know if the chipping, pitching part was better, but Tiger always seemed made the putt after the pitch or chip. How many times over the years did we see Phil make a seemingly impossible play to three or four feet but then miss the putt

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