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Iron Shaft Decisions


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#1 BCULAW

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:22 AM

So I'm down to pulling the trigger in a new set of irons (JPX 900 Tours). I've done as much testing here locally as I can do, which is to say I've hit a ton of balls on the simulators and at a local mat range.  I was also able to take a demo seven iron out on the course with a Project X 6.0 shaft. I'm down to a couple of options and was hoping I could get some input before making the decision.

First, im trying to stay within the stock offerings for cost reasons. On the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer, I am solidly in a KBS Tour 130 X-stiff, and it tends to recommend very heavy shafts for me in general (top 4 are KBS X, PX 6.5, PXLZ6.5, DGS300). The KBS Tour 130 feels perfect during testing, but I've owned it in 2-3 sets prior and it is too much for me over the course of a round. The same can be said for PX6.5 and x100.

CTaper 120 and PX 6.0 work well for me, but are out because they cause me significant pain in my elbows and wrists after play. I was surprised that the PX 6.0 demo I took out the other day felt and performed pretty well and caused me no pain. I'm a little gunshy about it based on the prior pain issues, though.

I've also had numerous sets with KBS Tour 120 and dgs300. S300 is loose in the long irons and spins a bit much causing distance loss. KBS Tour stiff is better, but still not as consistent as I think I might like.  Playable, but I feel like something in between the 120 and 130 (weight and flex) would be ideal.

The obvious option would be KBS 125S+. This is the direction I am leaning, but I can't hit it anywhere locally. I'm also not positive that it is a "no ucharge" option from Mizuno. If not, perhaps a soft stepped 130x?

My other option is PX LZ 6.0 or 6.5. I've hit both extensively in the simulator and have had good results with both. The 6.5 scares me based on flex, the 6.0 based on weight as it seems a bit hookey at times, but I feel like this may disappear during the course of a round.

Any suggestions, thoughts, musings, etc. would be welcome. Here are my thoughts:

KBS Tour 125 s+ - what am I missing. If I can handle more than 120s but not quite 130x, this would seem an obvious choice, right?  It doesn't seem to be offered as a stock option, is it essentially 130x softstepped x2?

PX LZ 6.0:  Isn't this basically the same shaft as the KBS Tour 120 in terms of weight and flex?

PX LZ 6.5- is this a viable "tweener" option (x-flex "light") or am I getting into a shaft that will beat me up over the course of a round like KBS 130, PX 6.5, x100, etc.?

Is there something else I should consider?  I thought Modus 105x would be ideal, and it feels outstanding. I'm just concerned given how much lighter it is than everything that is being recommended.



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#2 Warrick

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:31 AM

That is a tough call.  I wish some of these OEM's would offer the Modus 125 as a stock option, would seem perfect.

I tried the 6.5LZ in the 900T, after coming from c-taper 130X, just seemed like I spun them too much.

I don't think Mizzy offers any of the 125 options as stock.

I would think the LZ 6.5 might be the best of the options if you had good results.  I don't think they will be anywhere as harsh as some of the 130x options.

Good luck on the search.
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#3 jj9000

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:33 AM

Suggestions?

Yep.

Modus 130 Stiff.

Thanks me later.

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#4 Roadking_6

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:37 AM

View Postjj9000, on 19 June 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

Suggestions?

Yep.

Modus 130 Stiff.

Thanks me later.
130 really works for me as well. Problem is last time I checked (it's been over a year), the only Modus shaft you could get is the 105.

120, 125, 130 were not available even as an upcharge. Why I don't know. So because the shaft worked so well for me during my fitting, Mizuno was off the table and ended up going ping and just paying the upcharge

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#5 tsecor

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:46 AM

get the one that gives you the most control and feel. Do not haggle over 5 yards because one spins less or hits it too high. None of it leads to real documented scoring improvements. get a shaft that is not too loose. Other than that, its all splitting hairs.... DG's cannot be beat....40 years of proof in the pudding...i put S400's in my titleist and have never played better. best shaft ive ever used and that includes KBS, project X and other DG's. If you swing it over 90 mph, the x200 or higher will work great. don't over think it....if the feel is good, work on your game, not the equipment


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#6 BCULAW

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:49 AM

View Postjj9000, on 19 June 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

Suggestions?

Yep.

Modus 130 Stiff.

Thanks me later.

You are not the first person to suggest this for me. As stated by the second poster, above, it's not available through mizuno, unfortunately.

View PostRoadking_6, on 19 June 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

View Postjj9000, on 19 June 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

Suggestions?

Yep.

Modus 130 Stiff.

Thanks me later.
130 really works for me as well. Problem is last time I checked (it's been over a year), the only Modus shaft you could get is the 105.

120, 125, 130 were not available even as an upcharge. Why I don't know. So because the shaft worked so well for me during my fitting, Mizuno was off the table and ended up going ping and just paying the upcharge

May consider something similar.

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#7 BCULAW

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:50 AM

View Posttsecor, on 19 June 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

get the one that gives you the most control and feel. Do not haggle over 5 yards because one spins less or hits it too high. None of it leads to real documented scoring improvements. get a shaft that is not too loose. Other than that, its all splitting hairs.... DG's cannot be beat....40 years of proof in the pudding...i put S400's in my titleist and have never played better. best shaft ive ever used and that includes KBS, project X and other DG's. If you swing it over 90 mph, the x200 or higher will work great. don't over think it....if the feel is good, work on your game, not the equipment

Great comment!  Based on that fitting criteria, it would be KBS 130x all day, every day and it is really not close.

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#8 Warrick

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:56 AM

I know it is not "cheap" but you can find full sets of Modus 125-130 on the bay for around $160, but probably need to test first.

I bought a sample set of 3, and it was a no-brainer to finish the set.

All OEM's need to offer more free Modus.
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#9 Crooksc17

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:58 AM

I was fit into PX lz 6.5 and am a big fan. Another option is the c taper lite in x flex. I think the x flex is 115g. I was between these 2 shafts when I was fit. The performance was almost identical but the PX lz was no upcharge from Titleist so that sealed it. If the cost was the same I might have gone CTL because of the lighter weight. Nice looking shaft too

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#10 mwink822

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:58 AM

If the weight is a concern, you may want to take a stab at the Nippon Modus 3 105X.  That's what's in my irons and they're outstanding.  They're super smooth and respond well to swing input to manipulate ball flight.  The Modus 3 105 has a raw shaft weight of 112 grams in X-stiff flex.  It may be worth a few swings.

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#11 Roadking_6

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:00 AM

View PostWarrick, on 19 June 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

I know it is not "cheap" but you can find full sets of Modus 125-130 on the bay for around $160, but probably need to test first.

I bought a sample set of 3, and it was a no-brainer to finish the set.

All OEM's need to offer more free Modus.
Yeah no kidding. I have 2 sets of modus 130S at the moment, both plus 1". 1 installed in my irons, and one backup set ready to go. Hard to find 130 at +1" so I just kept them.

Now whenever I want to test irons, I have a set of 130's prepped and ready for install into my next set whenever I decide to try

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#12 BCULAW

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:55 AM

View Postmwink822, on 19 June 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

If the weight is a concern, you may want to take a stab at the Nippon Modus 3 105X.  That's what's in my irons and they're outstanding.  They're super smooth and respond well to swing input to manipulate ball flight.  The Modus 3 105 has a raw shaft weight of 112 grams in X-stiff flex.  It may be worth a few swings.

What do you use in the wedges?



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#13 tsecor

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:04 AM

not to crap on modus because I have never personally used them, but the people i know that have them end up hating them once they have a few rounds under their belts....you see a lot for sale on ebay....I have 3 buddies who use them and the on course reviews are not good....its only 3 guys,so it probably means nothing

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#14 mwink822

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:30 AM

View PostBCULAW, on 19 June 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

View Postmwink822, on 19 June 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

If the weight is a concern, you may want to take a stab at the Nippon Modus 3 105X.  That's what's in my irons and they're outstanding.  They're super smooth and respond well to swing input to manipulate ball flight.  The Modus 3 105 has a raw shaft weight of 112 grams in X-stiff flex.  It may be worth a few swings.

What do you use in the wedges?

In my gap wedge I have a matching Nippon Modus 3 105X straight in.  I like it and plan to order the same shaft in my replacement sand and lob wedges except I plan to have them soft stepped once for slightly softer feel on partial swings which is primarily what I do with the 55 and 59 degree wedges.
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#15 tsecor

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:32 AM

heavy shafts = more control.....you will get used to the weight. PX 6.0 is a great shaft


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#16 nsxguy

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:27 AM

View PostBCULAW, on 19 June 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

So I'm down to pulling the trigger in a new set of irons (JPX 900 Tours). I've done as much testing here locally as I can do, which is to say I've hit a ton of balls on the simulators and at a local mat range.  I was also able to take a demo seven iron out on the course with a Project X 6.0 shaft. I'm down to a couple of options and was hoping I could get some input before making the decision.

First, im trying to stay within the stock offerings for cost reasons. On the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer, I am solidly in a KBS Tour 130 X-stiff, and it tends to recommend very heavy shafts for me in general (top 4 are KBS X, PX 6.5, PXLZ6.5, DGS300). The KBS Tour 130 feels perfect during testing, but I've owned it in 2-3 sets prior and it is too much for me over the course of a round. The same can be said for PX6.5 and x100.

CTaper 120 and PX 6.0 work well for me, but are out because they cause me significant pain in my elbows and wrists after play. I was surprised that the PX 6.0 demo I took out the other day felt and performed pretty well and caused me no pain. I'm a little gunshy about it based on the prior pain issues, though.

I've also had numerous sets with KBS Tour 120 and dgs300. S300 is loose in the long irons and spins a bit much causing distance loss. KBS Tour stiff is better, but still not as consistent as I think I might like.  Playable, but I feel like something in between the 120 and 130 (weight and flex) would be ideal.

The obvious option would be KBS 125S+. This is the direction I am leaning, but I can't hit it anywhere locally. I'm also not positive that it is a "no ucharge" option from Mizuno. If not, perhaps a soft stepped 130x?

My other option is PX LZ 6.0 or 6.5. I've hit both extensively in the simulator and have had good results with both. The 6.5 scares me based on flex, the 6.0 based on weight as it seems a bit hookey at times, but I feel like this may disappear during the course of a round.

Any suggestions, thoughts, musings, etc. would be welcome. Here are my thoughts:

KBS Tour 125 s+ - what am I missing. If I can handle more than 120s but not quite 130x, this would seem an obvious choice, right?  It doesn't seem to be offered as a stock option, is it essentially 130x softstepped x2?

PX LZ 6.0:  Isn't this basically the same shaft as the KBS Tour 120 in terms of weight and flex?

PX LZ 6.5- is this a viable "tweener" option (x-flex "light") or am I getting into a shaft that will beat me up over the course of a round like KBS 130, PX 6.5, x100, etc.?

Is there something else I should consider?  I thought Modus 105x would be ideal, and it feels outstanding. I'm just concerned given how much lighter it is than everything that is being recommended.

Not sure I understand all this.

It sounds as though the "significant pain" is the determining factor here.

Wouldn't ALL steel shafts affect your elbow and wrists the same ? I can't imagine a slightly heavier or lighter steel shaft making (much of) a difference.
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#17 tsecor

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:35 AM

View Postnsxguy, on 19 June 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

View PostBCULAW, on 19 June 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

So I'm down to pulling the trigger in a new set of irons (JPX 900 Tours). I've done as much testing here locally as I can do, which is to say I've hit a ton of balls on the simulators and at a local mat range.  I was also able to take a demo seven iron out on the course with a Project X 6.0 shaft. I'm down to a couple of options and was hoping I could get some input before making the decision.

First, im trying to stay within the stock offerings for cost reasons. On the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer, I am solidly in a KBS Tour 130 X-stiff, and it tends to recommend very heavy shafts for me in general (top 4 are KBS X, PX 6.5, PXLZ6.5, DGS300). The KBS Tour 130 feels perfect during testing, but I've owned it in 2-3 sets prior and it is too much for me over the course of a round. The same can be said for PX6.5 and x100.

CTaper 120 and PX 6.0 work well for me, but are out because they cause me significant pain in my elbows and wrists after play. I was surprised that the PX 6.0 demo I took out the other day felt and performed pretty well and caused me no pain. I'm a little gunshy about it based on the prior pain issues, though.

I've also had numerous sets with KBS Tour 120 and dgs300. S300 is loose in the long irons and spins a bit much causing distance loss. KBS Tour stiff is better, but still not as consistent as I think I might like.  Playable, but I feel like something in between the 120 and 130 (weight and flex) would be ideal.

The obvious option would be KBS 125S+. This is the direction I am leaning, but I can't hit it anywhere locally. I'm also not positive that it is a "no ucharge" option from Mizuno. If not, perhaps a soft stepped 130x?

My other option is PX LZ 6.0 or 6.5. I've hit both extensively in the simulator and have had good results with both. The 6.5 scares me based on flex, the 6.0 based on weight as it seems a bit hookey at times, but I feel like this may disappear during the course of a round.

Any suggestions, thoughts, musings, etc. would be welcome. Here are my thoughts:

KBS Tour 125 s+ - what am I missing. If I can handle more than 120s but not quite 130x, this would seem an obvious choice, right?  It doesn't seem to be offered as a stock option, is it essentially 130x softstepped x2?

PX LZ 6.0:  Isn't this basically the same shaft as the KBS Tour 120 in terms of weight and flex?

PX LZ 6.5- is this a viable "tweener" option (x-flex "light") or am I getting into a shaft that will beat me up over the course of a round like KBS 130, PX 6.5, x100, etc.?

Is there something else I should consider?  I thought Modus 105x would be ideal, and it feels outstanding. I'm just concerned given how much lighter it is than everything that is being recommended.

Not sure I understand all this.

It sounds as though the "significant pain" is the determining factor here.

Wouldn't ALL steel shafts affect your elbow and wrists the same ? I can't imagine a slightly heavier or lighter steel shaft making (much of) a difference.
agreed. its almost like micromanagement and trying to determine if 15g will make the difference in you shooting 65 or 95.....don't overthink it.

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#18 mwink822

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:34 AM

View Posttsecor, on 19 June 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

heavy shafts = more control.....you will get used to the weight. PX 6.0 is a great shaft

As a broad generalization, yes.  In the case of every golfer, no.  Some folks will see control deteriorate quite a bit when a club is too heavy as they will feel the need to really go after the ball leading to inconsistent strikes.  

Insofar as the elbow/wrist pain, different steel shafts can help to ameliorate some of the problem, but it typically involves a major change to shaft profile.  As an example, going from a PX which has a very stiff profile overall to something like a Modus 120 which has a stiff tip and very soft mid and butt section, the feeling transmitted to the hands will be less harsh/jarring on a slight miss strike.  At least that's been my experience.  I went from PX to KBS Tour for this reason and then from the Tour to a C-Taper just because.  The C-Taper was definitely not AS smooth as the Tour, but it was a damn site better than the PX.  This year I'm gaming Nippon Modus 3 105's and they're smoother than the KBS Tour.  They're also lighter and I honestly feel they're easier to swing because of it.  The swing weight is still a pretty standard D2.

Now is going to a lighter (or heavier if the dictates) shaft going to shave 30 strokes off your score?  Nope.  Can it help with consistency?  Absolutely.  Can going lighter while maintaining swing weight help with fatigue?  Absolutely.  Is it going to make you play better?  Yes and no.  Yes in the sense that you'll be making a less lazy swing later in the round.  No in the sense that you still have to put the effort in to put a good swing on the ball.  Can a different steel shaft lessen joint discomfort?  Yes and no.  Yes if you go from a very stiff bend profile to a more moderate one like the KBS Tour of Nippon 105, 120, or 125.  No if you are going to a like profile.  Also helpful in this area are the shaft inserts, either Sensicore of Pro Soft inserts.  These can do a pretty good job of dampening unwanted vibration.  

Bottom line, it's going to depend greatly upon the individual player and a thorough fitting is required to see what does and does not work.
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#19 tsecor

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:42 PM

View Postmwink822, on 19 June 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

View Posttsecor, on 19 June 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

heavy shafts = more control.....you will get used to the weight. PX 6.0 is a great shaft

As a broad generalization, yes.  In the case of every golfer, no.  Some folks will see control deteriorate quite a bit when a club is too heavy as they will feel the need to really go after the ball leading to inconsistent strikes.  

Insofar as the elbow/wrist pain, different steel shafts can help to ameliorate some of the problem, but it typically involves a major change to shaft profile.  As an example, going from a PX which has a very stiff profile overall to something like a Modus 120 which has a stiff tip and very soft mid and butt section, the feeling transmitted to the hands will be less harsh/jarring on a slight miss strike.  At least that's been my experience.  I went from PX to KBS Tour for this reason and then from the Tour to a C-Taper just because.  The C-Taper was definitely not AS smooth as the Tour, but it was a damn site better than the PX.  This year I'm gaming Nippon Modus 3 105's and they're smoother than the KBS Tour.  They're also lighter and I honestly feel they're easier to swing because of it.  The swing weight is still a pretty standard D2.

Now is going to a lighter (or heavier if the dictates) shaft going to shave 30 strokes off your score?  Nope.  Can it help with consistency?  Absolutely.  Can going lighter while maintaining swing weight help with fatigue?  Absolutely.  Is it going to make you play better?  Yes and no.  Yes in the sense that you'll be making a less lazy swing later in the round.  No in the sense that you still have to put the effort in to put a good swing on the ball.  Can a different steel shaft lessen joint discomfort?  Yes and no.  Yes if you go from a very stiff bend profile to a more moderate one like the KBS Tour of Nippon 105, 120, or 125.  No if you are going to a like profile.  Also helpful in this area are the shaft inserts, either Sensicore of Pro Soft inserts.  These can do a pretty good job of dampening unwanted vibration.  

Bottom line, it's going to depend greatly upon the individual player and a thorough fitting is required to see what does and does not work.
Its comes down to splitting hairs. If you do not have a consistent swing, the shafts isn't going to make or break you. if you are having tons of pain, the shaft which is 10g lighter isn't the magic pill to fix that.  I really don't see how a PX shaft can cause pain but a KBS shaft doesn't.....

Most people put waaaaaay to much stock in the fitting process......if it feels good, buy it.....splitting hairs over launch angles and ball speeds as an amateur is just silly in my opinion.....if something gives you confidence and it feels good, but flies 5 yards shorter, who cares.....most strokes are gained in the short game so the best $$ spent is working on wedge play and putting

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