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Spieth and his struggles


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#61 WolfWRX

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:09 AM

Only way to get his putting back to where it was, is to start putting oil on his putter face.

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#62 rblmp32

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:49 AM

View Postlarrybud, on 19 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

7.  Everybody compares current players to the incredible streak of Tiger.  It just doesn't happen but once every 30-40 years.

Yup.  We tend to forget alot just how good he was/is.  Once in a lifetime player.

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#63 ray9898

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:50 AM

View Postsfiggins, on 19 June 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

1 win, 6 top 10's, 10 top 25's in 15 tournaments including T11 in the Masters.

The curse of high expectations.

Pretty much.

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#64 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:54 AM

View PostWolfWRX, on 19 June 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

Only way to get his putting back to where it was, is to start putting oil on his putter face.
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#65 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:29 PM

View Postnicoy3k, on 19 June 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

you guys are nuts. JS was this close to having a great week. He didn't get anything going on the greens the first three days, but his play was steady. If we had had a windy dry course all week i get the sense he is a lot higher up that leader board.

By close does that mean a dozen strokes? If that is close then I am really close to qualifying to play in next year's US Open.

Sorry...had to be said.


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#66 Darth Putter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:29 PM

View PostSantiago Golf, on 19 June 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 19 June 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?



hard to say .. wouldnt that have meant a playoff ?   or did he win by 2?  cant recall
Would have a playoff. I had that monday off too! Wouldve been a great one to watch

I think the point is, if he lost that playoff , everyone would be pointing to his horribly sliced iron shot on the par 3 71st. (sound familiar?) That double bogey would have cost him the tournament.

His chances of winning at the Old Course were crippled by another bad iron into the par 3 eighth and he took four from there.

It's an amazing accomplishment to be 23 years old, be #6 in the world and be a washed up has been.

I think he'll wind up near Phil's numbers when all is said and done. He's well ahead of Lefty's pace already.

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#67 hankmoody

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:46 PM

View Postlarrybud, on 19 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

7.  Everybody compares current players to the incredible streak of Tiger.  It just doesn't happen but once every 30-40 years.

Came in to say this.  (And as to Jack too.)
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#68 Darth Putter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:51 PM

I forgot the most important reason (and this applies to Rory as well)

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#69 drbob28

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:51 PM

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?
Probably not. Excellent point Mr. Bond

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#70 LittleLeftToRight

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:20 PM

We here at Team Irish LLTR believe that there has never been a golfer that ran a streak of luck like young Jordan Spieth, and being Irish, we know a thing or two about luck. Luck is a cruel mistress though, and the two chunks in the water at 12 was the mistress putting her clothes back on. He still however remains lucky, though the mistress is not happy.

We think he was overblown. We believe he is playing true to his talent level at the current moment. We believe he isn't the great putter that he is claimed to be, but he is a better iron player than he is given credit.

We also think golf is hard, even for the lucky.

And lastly, we also predicted this back when everyone was on a YJS high.

Edited by LittleLeftToRight, 19 June 2017 - 01:21 PM.

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#71 hdr_ric

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:34 PM

View PostDarth Putter, on 19 June 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

View PostSantiago Golf, on 19 June 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 19 June 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?



hard to say .. wouldnt that have meant a playoff ?   or did he win by 2?  cant recall
Would have a playoff. I had that monday off too! Wouldve been a great one to watch

I think the point is, if he lost that playoff , everyone would be pointing to his horribly sliced iron shot on the par 3 71st. (sound familiar?) That double bogey would have cost him the tournament.

His chances of winning at the Old Course were crippled by another bad iron into the par 3 eighth and he took four from there.

It's an amazing accomplishment to be 23 years old, be #6 in the world and be a washed up has been.

I think he'll wind up near Phil's numbers when all is said and done. He's well ahead of Lefty's pace already.

You sure??  He is ahead on majors, but 9 wins in ~125 starts for Jordan.  Let me check on phil's wins at the same number of attempts....

I would wager pretty heavily that Jordan won't get 40 wins.

EDIT:

Looks like Phil was at 11 wins at/around same number of starts.  So pretty close.  I stand corrected.  

Still don't think Jordan sniffs 40 wins career though.

Edited by hdr_ric, 19 June 2017 - 01:42 PM.


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#72 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:48 PM

View Postdrbob28, on 19 June 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?
Probably not. Excellent point Mr. Bond

The history of the game is littered with examples like this.  "if's, what if's, almost, but,"  In the end you add up the strokes and you have a winner.  I mean just during the 4 rounds of that tournament alone there were all kinds of breaks good and bad by several players that could have changed the outcome.  So while his point is a good conversation starter in my mind it does not diminish what Spieth did at all.
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#73 jslane57

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:51 PM

View Postdlygrisse, on 19 June 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

View Postdrbob28, on 19 June 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?
Probably not. Excellent point Mr. Bond

The history of the game is littered with examples like this.  "if's, what if's, almost, but,"  In the end you add up the strokes and you have a winner.  I mean just during the 4 rounds of that tournament alone there were all kinds of breaks good and bad by several players that could have changed the outcome.  So while his point is a good conversation starter in my mind it does not diminish what Spieth did at all.
Exactly. That 3 putt only impacted DJ's reputation...

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#74 dlygrisse

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 02:02 PM

View Postjslane57, on 19 June 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

View Postdlygrisse, on 19 June 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

View Postdrbob28, on 19 June 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?
Probably not. Excellent point Mr. Bond

The history of the game is littered with examples like this.  "if's, what if's, almost, but,"  In the end you add up the strokes and you have a winner.  I mean just during the 4 rounds of that tournament alone there were all kinds of breaks good and bad by several players that could have changed the outcome.  So while his point is a good conversation starter in my mind it does not diminish what Spieth did at all.
Exactly. That 3 putt only impacted DJ's reputation...
And if he would have made it Spieth may have won the playoff, no guarantees either way. Nicklaus gets credit for winning at St Andrews even though Doug Sanders missed a putt of similar length to win, conversely Jack had a couple of Opens "stolen" from him with pretty lucky shots by others.  Trevino flat out had given up at Miurfield when he skulled a wedge that hit the stick and went in the hole.  Lee was choking his arse off and got lucky and knew it.  So it goes both ways.
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#75 Sean2

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:37 PM

It's golf. With rare exceptions a golfer's game will wax and wane.


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#76 Darth Putter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:53 PM

View PostLittleLeftToRight, on 19 June 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

We here at Team Irish LLTR believe that there has never been a golfer that ran a streak of luck like young Jordan Spieth, and being Irish, we know a thing or two about luck. Luck is a cruel mistress though, and the two chunks in the water at 12 was the mistress putting her clothes back on. He still however remains lucky, though the mistress is not happy.

We think he was overblown. We believe he is playing true to his talent level at the current moment. We believe he isn't the great putter that he is claimed to be, but he is a better iron player than he is given credit.

We also think golf is hard, even for the lucky.

And lastly, we also predicted this back when everyone was on a YJS high.

Quit worrying about Spieth and get Rory healthy and back out there.

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#77 Darth Putter

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:01 PM

View Posthdr_ric, on 19 June 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

View PostDarth Putter, on 19 June 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

View PostSantiago Golf, on 19 June 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

View Postbladehunter, on 19 June 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Do we look at Spieth in the same light if DJ doesn't 3 putt at Chambers Bay?



hard to say .. wouldnt that have meant a playoff ?   or did he win by 2?  cant recall
Would have a playoff. I had that monday off too! Wouldve been a great one to watch

I think the point is, if he lost that playoff , everyone would be pointing to his horribly sliced iron shot on the par 3 71st. (sound familiar?) That double bogey would have cost him the tournament.

His chances of winning at the Old Course were crippled by another bad iron into the par 3 eighth and he took four from there.

It's an amazing accomplishment to be 23 years old, be #6 in the world and be a washed up has been.

I think he'll wind up near Phil's numbers when all is said and done. He's well ahead of Lefty's pace already.

You sure??  He is ahead on majors, but 9 wins in ~125 starts for Jordan.  Let me check on phil's wins at the same number of attempts....

I would wager pretty heavily that Jordan won't get 40 wins.

EDIT:

Looks like Phil was at 11 wins at/around same number of starts.  So pretty close.  I stand corrected.  

Still don't think Jordan sniffs 40 wins career though.

I'm not looking at number of starts, but age. Jordan has a big jump compared to Phil through his 1994 season when he was 24.

At that point, Phil had 60 starts, 4 wins (the win percentage will be about equal unless Jordan wins again this year) and was almost a decade away from his first major.

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#78 playa

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:02 PM

View PostAndrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

The hard thing for Spieth is that he isn't super long off the tee- who is long off the tee- Dustin Johnson, Rory McIlroy, and Jason Day. For Spieth to win he has to give up 20-50 yards. So if one of the other three get on a Putting streak it's over for Spieth - case and point Jason Day at the PGA.

I would argue that you can sustain Putting prowess...Tiger Woods went from 1997-2008 making those putts..Jack did it. Bobby Jones did it.
Agree about Tiger and to an extent Jack, but how can you make a realistic appraisal of a guy who played 100 years ago?

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#79 Andrew Bond of Glencoe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:30 PM

I am a golf historian. Bobby Jones was considered the best putter of his generation. As was Walter Travis before him, Willie Park Junior before him and his father Willie Park Senior. You add Jack and Tiger and you have the best putters that ever lived.

I could go into more detail, but it would likely bore you.

Edited by Andrew Bond of Glencoe, 19 June 2017 - 04:31 PM.


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#80 new2g0lf

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:33 PM

Spieths lack of distance off the tee is a huge handicap to overcome.  

I played in a member guest tournament this past weekend that was flighted so we were all comparable indexes.  In 3 of the 5 matches we played, our competitors could out drive us by 50+ yards.   In those matches it completely changed our game plan because the only way we could win a hole was to hope they mishit the ball while we played near perfect golf.  We were always on the defensive and when they drove the ball 300 yards right down the middle there was little within our control we could do to win the hole.  

Experiencing that It helped me appreciate how tough it is for guys like Spieth who know that when the guys that crush their drives are on he has a minimal margin of error.


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#81 jslane57

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:39 PM

 Andrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

I am a golf historian. Bobby Jones was considered the best putter of his generation. As was Walter Travis before him, Willie Park Junior before him and his father Willie Park Senior. You add Jack and Tiger and you have the best putters that ever lived.

I could go into more detail, but it would likely bore you.
So are you saying is that up until this very point in golf, drive for show and putt for dough has been the truth, and the distance of DJ and Koepka is causing a paradigm shift in the game? Or that you're confident Jordan will be number 1 again soon? Jordan seems to be the very best putter of this generation doesn't he?

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#82 KrazyTrain18

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:45 PM

Golf is a tough game and winning is even tougher.  Jordan in 2015 had one of the best seasons in golf history, it was a combination of great play and a bit of luck.  I don't think he's lost a step or lost focus I think he's just out there grinding like anybody.  We've seen countless players from Rory to Dustin get hot for stretches and look invincible and then they fade back to reality.  It's simply just that tough to keep in that peak form and each time a thread such as this pops up it makes me think of how special Tigers run was.
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#83 Roadking2003

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:32 PM

 Andrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:


5) I don't care how good you are, you can't be outdriven by 30-50 yards and be the best player in the world.


#5 isn't the problem since it's not true.  DJ is #1 at 312.1 yards.  Spieth is 291.6, so the gap between him and #1 is only 20.5 yards.

He's only 8 yards behind the masters winner (Sergio),  7 yards behind Jason Day, 7 yards behind Fowler, 3 yards behind Mickelson.

Distance isn't his problem.  Look at all of the long hitters who just missed the cut at the US Open.....

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#84 4thand11

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:38 PM

Spieth is a solid Top-20 player who had a miracle year in 2015 where everything went right, including DJ's 3-putt.  He will be fine, it's not really his fault that the TV networks latched onto him as the next Tiger.  Even he probably knew that season was an outlier.

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#85 MtlJeff

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:54 PM

If Spieth does nothing more than maintain his pace of the past 2 seasons (post 2015) for the next 10 years, he'd be 33yrs old and have 24 PGA wins and 2 majors.

That's assuming with his great short game he doesn't get hot and win another major or two, or three.

He's not Tiger, but he seems to be really really good.

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#86 jmvargas

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 06:56 PM

jordan's long game and even his short game except for putting is as good or even better as ever..

putting is the game's great equalizer and he had an exceptional run with this in 2015 but has tapered off since then..

the real greats experience very few-if ever-bad putting years so if he can go back to his 2015 level in that area he will be a dominant force again..

but as to when and if that ever happens...who knows.
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#87 mizuno player

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:29 PM

He needs to just play his game. He will most likely not win 14 or even 10 majors. But I could see 4-8. That's a damn good career.



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#88 Roadking2003

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:32 PM

 hdr_ric, on 19 June 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:


You sure??  He is ahead on majors, but 9 wins in ~125 starts for Jordan.  Let me check on phil's wins at the same number of attempts....

I would wager pretty heavily that Jordan won't get 40 wins.

EDIT:

Looks like Phil was at 11 wins at/around same number of starts.  So pretty close.  I stand corrected.  

Still don't think Jordan sniffs 40 wins career though.

Spieth currently (age 24): 119 events, 9 wins, 7.6% win rate.  11.8% majors win rate.

Mickelson through age 27: 119 events, 10 wins, 8.4% win rate.  0% majors win rate.  Phil's win rate was about the same for the next 20 years.

Phil's win rate is slightly higher.  If Jordan keeps the same win rate as he has now, he will get about 44 wins.

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#89 nicoy3k

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:52 PM

 Andrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

 nicoy3k, on 19 June 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

you guys are nuts. JS was this close to having a great week. He didn't get anything going on the greens the first three days, but his play was steady. If we had had a windy dry course all week i get the sense he is a lot higher up that leader board.

By close does that mean a dozen strokes? If that is close then I am really close to qualifying to play in next year's US Open.

Sorry...had to be said.

Did you watch his first round at all? He hit the ball better than I've ever seen him, he just burned the edge on about 15 makable birdie putts- it happens. He had the most impressive round of the day going -3 in the heart of the wind.

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#90 Ashley Schaeffer

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:09 PM

 Andrew Bond of Glencoe, on 19 June 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

I am a golf historian. Bobby Jones was considered the best putter of his generation. As was Walter Travis before him, Willie Park Junior before him and his father Willie Park Senior. You add Jack and Tiger and you have the best putters that ever lived.

I could go into more detail, but it would likely bore you.

I don't doubt that Willie Park Sr. was the boss of the dirt back in the day.  With all due respect to The Park Boys, and Bob Jones, it's comparisons like these that make me favor bifurcation.  Not bifurcation of equipment, but bifurcation of forums.

Driver: 9.5*
3W: 15*
5W: 19*-ish?
Irons: 4-PW
Wedges: 50*, 54*, 58*
Putter:  Putter

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